Paranoid

ergonomics

Hey,

Just hoping someone can put me at ease with this. I had an interview with a company about two weeks ago. The following week I had a second round interview. They then rang and asked for my references and on Tuesday of this week they rang to offer me the job. They told me the salary and the benefits I would receive and asked when I could start. I said I could start this Monday and the girl on the phone said she needed to check if everything would be ready by then and that she would get back to me. I'm now getting a bit paranoid as I haven't heard anything since.

I'm trying to stop the paranoia by telling myself that this is a huge multinational company so they wouldn't ring to offer me a job if I hadn't 100% had the job. I interviewed with three people and was offered the job by someone from HR. This person also organised the interviews each time. As I said she said they needed to check if everything was ok for me to start Monday so I'm also trying to tell myself that she might be waiting for people to get back to her.

I'm just paranoid that they're going to go back on the job offer as this happened to me twice already! The other times I was offered a position it wasn't formally, i.e., they said that they were really happy and were likely to offer me the job but needed to interview a few other people and later emailed me to say thanks but no thanks. They were much smaller companies too.

Also, whenever the girl from HR rang me she rang from a private number so I don't have a number to call her on. Anytime my phone rang with a private number I got so nervous as this is my dream job and because of the nerves I never caught her name so I can't ring to ask for her.

Basically, I'm wondering am I being needlessly paranoid that they will go back on the job offer or should I be worrying a bit?

Magenta

Did you receive a formal i.e. written offer, or just a phone call?

ergonomics

Just the phonecall but in the call she gave me detailed information about the salary and benefits. She also didn't give a definite time frame in which she'd call me back so it's not like she said she'd call in an hour and then didn't.

InReality

well its naturally to be on edge esp given your recent experience . you'll just have to wait it out , and try and be a little prepared if its a no.

ergonomics

Can a company do that? Can they ring and say "We'd like to offer you the position. Your salary will be X and you will also receive Y and Z" and then turn around and say they are no longer offering you the position?

I'm going to ring them in the morning regardless. My friend also works for the company and she managed to help me figure out the name of the person I was in contact with.

ergonomics

ergonomics wrote: »

Can a company do that? Can they ring and say "We'd like to offer you the position. Your salary will be X and you will also receive Y and Z" and then turn around and say they are no longer offering you the position?

I'm going to ring them in the morning regardless. My friend also works for the company and she managed to help me figure out the name of the person I was in contact with.

I don't think so, no. I guess legally, it's fine to do so until contracts are signed (I don't honestly know much about this), but it's incredibly poor form. Surely almost all offers are verbal - I never signed a contract until my first day in any job. It's really cruel to tell someone you're offering a position and then take it back. Once I had that phone call, I'd be confident that I had the job. I'd say it's very unusual for an offer just to be retracted like that. If they'd just given you the impression you'd get it, maybe, but an actual solid offer? I'd highly doubt that they'd take that back.

big_show

I got the same from a large multinational about 18 months ago, turned another job and all for the same "oral" contract.

Got put on the long finger about a contract for about 3 months before it finally fell through, left me with no job and looking like an ass after telling all my friends about this "imaginary" job. After that Jobs were non existent, so i took out a loan and went back to do a masters for the year.

Just finishing off my masters now, dissertation is due end of august. Started work 2 weeks ago as well, so it all worked out in the end, even though its the same multinational i got the job with but in another role as well as having to go through the same interview process again!

So things can fall through albeit very very rarely, Murphys frigging law.

PM me if you want to compare multinationals

AARRRRGH

ergonomics wrote: »

Can a company do that? Can they ring and say "We'd like to offer you the position. Your salary will be X and you will also receive Y and Z" and then turn around and say they are no longer offering you the position?

I'm going to ring them in the morning regardless. My friend also works for the company and she managed to help me figure out the name of the person I was in contact with.

Maybe they looked you up on Facebook.
We've offered people jobs only for someone to find them on Facebook afterwards and then we just let it go. Couldnt really contact them and say - seen you on facebook and you look like a tool. Nothing good is ever on Facebook for a potential employer to see, no matter what you think. And if you think its private - its not.

Or maybe you are just being paranoid and they are just getting their sh1t together before contacting you.

ergonomics

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Maybe they looked you up on Facebook.
We've offered people jobs only for someone to find them on Facebook afterwards and then we just let it go. Couldnt really contact them and say - seen you on facebook and you look like a tool. Nothing good is ever on Facebook for a potential employer to see, no matter what you think. And if you think its private - its not.

Or maybe you are just being paranoid and they are just getting their sh1t together before contacting you.

In the very first interview they told me they Googled me and saw my social networking accounts and were impressed by what they saw so I'm confident it's not that!

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Maybe they looked you up on Facebook.
We've offered people jobs only for someone to find them on Facebook afterwards and then we just let it go. Couldnt really contact them and say - seen you on facebook and you look like a tool. Nothing good is ever on Facebook for a potential employer to see, no matter what you think. And if you think its private - its not.

Or maybe you are just being paranoid and they are just getting their sh1t together before contacting you.

Why not look them up on Facebook before telling them they're hired? Saves the cruelty of telling them they have a job and then snatching it away. And what do you mean 'if you think it's private'? So you think hacking into peoples' private accounts is OK? What sort of stuff makes someone a 'tool' anyway? Pics of them doing drugs? Posting racist comments? Being a fan of romcoms?

AARRRRGH

[quote=[Deleted User];67068727]Why not look them up on Facebook before telling them they're hired? Saves the cruelty of telling them they have a job and then snatching it away. And what do you mean 'if you think it's private'? So you think hacking into peoples' private accounts is OK? What sort of stuff makes someone a 'tool' anyway? Pics of them doing drugs? Posting racist comments? Being a fan of romcoms?[/QUOTE]

Most of the time we do look it up before an interview. But sometimes you cant find them by their name and its only when someone else knows them and gives us the facebook page we see it then.
If you dont know what makes you look bad on Facebook, then you're probably one of those very people

And as for "Hacking" - any competent techie will get onto any facebook account. We have a company full of such talent. And if you put any info on such a site hat you want to keep private .... well, see comment above again.

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Most of the time we do look it up before an interview. But sometimes you cant find them by their name and its only when someone else knows them and gives us the facebook page we see it then.
If you dont know what makes you look bad on Facebook, then you're probably one of those very people

And as for "Hacking" - any competent techie will get onto any facebook account. We have a company full of such talent. And if you put any info on such a site hat you want to keep private .... well, see comment above again.

No, I don't know what makes you look bad. I doubt that I'm 'one of those people' because my profile pic isn't a pic of me, I have no photos of nights out (just two or three of me enjoying Belgian beer on holiday, does this make me unemployable?), very few bits of info listed and rarely post status updates, but perhaps you could elaborate?

You can call it "hacking" if you want but that's exactly what it is. Any competent techie can get onto anything, it doesn't make it ethical. If someone has set their Facebook to friends only, what makes you think you have the right to invade their privacy? Would you hack into their e-mail? Open their post? Spy through their windows? Just because it's social networking doesn't mean that you should go around their efforts to keep it private, IMO. It's like me closing my bedroom curtains so you can't see in, and you then sneaking into my house and installing a camera.

I'm careful about how I present myself on Facebook because you never know when they might mess up and make your page available to everyone, but I wouldn't expect employers to be hacking into it. And how do you know if you even have the right person, especially if it's before an interview? You could look up some absolute knob with my name and assume it's me when it isn't.

genericguy

ergonomics wrote: »

Hey,

Just hoping someone can put me at ease with this. I had an interview with a company about two weeks ago. The following week I had a second round interview. They then rang and asked for my references and on Tuesday of this week they rang to offer me the job. They told me the salary and the benefits I would receive and asked when I could start. I said I could start this Monday and the girl on the phone said she needed to check if everything would be ready by then and that she would get back to me. I'm now getting a bit paranoid as I haven't heard anything since.

I'm trying to stop the paranoia by telling myself that this is a huge multinational company so they wouldn't ring to offer me a job if I hadn't 100% had the job. I interviewed with three people and was offered the job by someone from HR. This person also organised the interviews each time. As I said she said they needed to check if everything was ok for me to start Monday so I'm also trying to tell myself that she might be waiting for people to get back to her.

I'm just paranoid that they're going to go back on the job offer as this happened to me twice already! The other times I was offered a position it wasn't formally, i.e., they said that they were really happy and were likely to offer me the job but needed to interview a few other people and later emailed me to say thanks but no thanks. They were much smaller companies too.

Also, whenever the girl from HR rang me she rang from a private number so I don't have a number to call her on. Anytime my phone rang with a private number I got so nervous as this is my dream job and because of the nerves I never caught her name so I can't ring to ask for her.

Basically, I'm wondering am I being needlessly paranoid that they will go back on the job offer or should I be worrying a bit?

ring the switchboard today OP and asked to be put through, you have a legit reason. Tell your woman you wanted to get clarification so you could decide whether or not to go away for a holiday next week.

genericguy

[quote=[Deleted User];67069222]
I'm careful about how I present myself on Facebook because you never know when they might mess up and make your page available to everyone, but I wouldn't expect employers to be hacking into it. And how do you know if you even have the right person, especially if it's before an interview? You could look up some absolute knob with my name and assume it's me when it isn't.[/QUOTE]

for this reason, I have never even looked at a facebook page, let alone opened an account.

ergonomics

Thanks for all the replies. I rang the company and they said they'd sent the contracts out in the post and they just hadn't arrived yet! Our postman wouldn't be known for being reliable. Looking forward to starting now! Yay!

AARRRRGH

[quote=[Deleted User];67069222]No, I don't know what makes you look bad. I doubt that I'm 'one of those people' because my profile pic isn't a pic of me, I have no photos of nights out (just two or three of me enjoying Belgian beer on holiday, does this make me unemployable?), very few bits of info listed and rarely post status updates, but perhaps you could elaborate?

You can call it "hacking" if you want but that's exactly what it is. Any competent techie can get onto anything, it doesn't make it ethical. If someone has set their Facebook to friends only, what makes you think you have the right to invade their privacy? Would you hack into their e-mail? Open their post? Spy through their windows? Just because it's social networking doesn't mean that you should go around their efforts to keep it private, IMO. It's like me closing my bedroom curtains so you can't see in, and you then sneaking into my house and installing a camera.

I'm careful about how I present myself on Facebook because you never know when they might mess up and make your page available to everyone, but I wouldn't expect employers to be hacking into it. And how do you know if you even have the right person, especially if it's before an interview? You could look up some absolute knob with my name and assume it's me when it isn't.[/QUOTE]

Its not exactly a revelation that online social networking is BAD for your professional life.

You are taking this a bit hard arent you. :rolleyes:

And I love when someone answers their own question. You are right, its because we dont always know who they are on Facebook until later.

[quote=[Deleted User];67068727]Why not look them up on Facebook before telling them they're hired? [/QUOTE]

[quote=[Deleted User];67068727]And how do you know if you even have the right person, especially if it's before an interview?[/QUOTE]

And we ALWAYS know peoples facebook when they log on to it from work, as do we know their Boards usernames. We are required to monitor all communication. I dont bother reading it anymore, but some of the more juvenile lads in IT read them just for kicks, not even to see if secrets are being given away. They send on the funny posts though. You would laugh at the differences between someone online and real life.

finisklin

Whatever about facebook and Boards.....how secure is personal email addresses e.g. gmail and Yahoo etc. Can the IT department access them?

I came across this thread and though the title is paranoid I think the ease in which techie people can access your PC history and online activty is frightening justifies its billing. Though a little off topic.....

AARRRRGH

finisklin wrote: »

Whatever about facebook and Boards.....how secure is personal email addresses e.g. gmail and Yahoo etc. Can the IT department access them?

I came across this thread and though the title is paranoid I think the ease in which techie people can access your PC history and online activty is frightening justifies its billing. Though a little off topic.....

If its over https you are safe enough.
But a lot of companies now (not us) are using key loggers. If they want your username and password they can get them, but they more than likely wouldnt be bothered anyway.

Technically anything you do on a work computer belongs to your employer.

Everything you do on a work PC can be logged and nowadays most likely is logged. Most will never even look at it.

Besides a few episodes of gathering some sort of evidence to fire, instead of make certain people redundant, our company has never used this info.
eg There is a complete waster that you want to fire because making them redundant would cost you money. Its much easier to find some racist or sexist email or post they made (Everybody has at least one) and fire them.
The data is there to be searched whenever they want to.

But childish curiosity is what makes the IT dept go into peoples facebooks and read what they are writing on message boards such as boards. That happens a lot. I mean wouldnt you love to know the username of the guy working beside you and see what they are posting on boards.

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Its not exactly a revelation that online social networking is BAD for your professional life.

You are taking this a bit hard arent you. :rolleyes:

No, I'm not. Don't insult me because I think it's scummy to hack into private accounts. How on earth is social networking bad for my professional life? I use Facebook to keep in contact with friends around the world as well as my family, who I never see.

And I love when someone answers their own question. You are right, its because we dont always know who they are on Facebook until later.

And what if you make a mistake later? For example, if the picture isn't of the person, or someone else happens to look a lot like the guy you interviewed? It's not like it's difficult to get it wrong. I'm always getting messages from people who think I'm someone else.

AARRRRGH wrote: »

If its over https you are safe enough.
But a lot of companies now (not us) are using key loggers. If they want your username and password they can get them, but they more than likely wouldnt be bothered anyway.

I'd report you to the guards if I thought that was happening.

Technically anything you do on a work computer belongs to your employer.

I never signed a contract with that on it.

But childish curiosity is what makes the IT dept go into peoples facebooks and read what they are writing on message boards such as boards. That happens a lot. I mean wouldnt you love to know the username of the guy working beside you and see what they are posting on boards.

Yeah, it is childish. No, I wouldn't want to know the Boards username of the guy beside me. I'm busy having a life.

AARRRRGH

[quote=[Deleted User];67088405]No, I'm not. Don't insult me because I think it's scummy to hack into private accounts. How on earth is social networking bad for my professional life? I use Facebook to keep in contact with friends around the world as well as my family, who I never see.



And what if you make a mistake later? For example, if the picture isn't of the person, or someone else happens to look a lot like the guy you interviewed? It's not like it's difficult to get it wrong. I'm always getting messages from people who think I'm someone else.




I'd report you to the guards if I thought that was happening.



I never signed a contract with that on it.



Yeah, it is childish. No, I wouldn't want to know the Boards username of the guy beside me. I'm busy having a life.[/QUOTE]

Relax and take deep breaths there.

What I have said is nothing new.
And good luck reporting to the guards that a company is harvesting data on their own network. And it doesnt need to be on a contract you signed.

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Relax and take deep breaths there.

What I have said is nothing new.
And good luck reporting to the guards that a company is harvesting data on their own network. And it doesnt need to be on a contract you signed.

I am relaxed. I'm also not an idiot. There is a difference between monitoring what an employee is doing on public boards and obtaining the username and password of their private e-mail. You said they don't 'normally' use it - what case in the world would you have to check someone's private e-mail? You're not the Gardai. You have no right. I might use a computer on your network to check my e-mail during a break, it's absolutely none of your business what I write in my e-mail or what my password is or what I write there. Of course I know it's possible to do and I'm well aware of the God complex most IT guys have, I've worked nights with loads of them, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable.

It's also incredibly unethical to hack into a private Facebook account. If someone has their Facebook open for the whole world to see - sure, they deserve what they get. If it's private, you have absolutely no business looking at it. Like I said, it's like my closing my curtains and you finding a way to see into my house, or bugging my phone to see what kind of things I talk about with my friends. It's a gross invasion of privacy. You still haven't given an answer about what type of things are grounds for withdrawing a job offer or how you'd be absolutely 100% sure you were looking at the right page.

AARRRRGH

[quote=[Deleted User];67091299]I am relaxed. I'm also not an idiot. There is a difference between monitoring what an employee is doing on public boards and obtaining the username and password of their private e-mail. You said they don't 'normally' use it - what case in the world would you have to check someone's private e-mail? You're not the Gardai. You have no right. I might use a computer on your network to check my e-mail during a break, it's absolutely none of your business what I write in my e-mail or what my password is or what I write there. Of course I know it's possible to do and I'm well aware of the God complex most IT guys have, I've worked nights with loads of them, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable.

It's also incredibly unethical to hack into a private Facebook account. If someone has their Facebook open for the whole world to see - sure, they deserve what they get. If it's private, you have absolutely no business looking at it. Like I said, it's like my closing my curtains and you finding a way to see into my house, or bugging my phone to see what kind of things I talk about with my friends. It's a gross invasion of privacy. You still haven't given an answer about what type of things are grounds for withdrawing a job offer or how you'd be absolutely 100% sure you were looking at the right page.[/QUOTE]

I have given all the answers I can.
Use your common sense for the rest. If thats failing you, then you better ask the guards so.

baalthor

[quote=[Deleted User];67088405] How on earth is social networking bad for my professional life?
[/QUOTE]

Of course it's not - there are 500 million Facebook users; 1 billion expected by year end - it was a ridiculous comment.

[quote=[Deleted User];67088405]
I'd report you to the guards if I thought that was happening.
[/QUOTE]

Even better, report them to the Data Protection Commissioner ...

@AARRRGH: If what you are posting is accurate then your organisation is in breach of many Data Protection and Privacy regulations.

You can familiarise yourself with the relevant requirements here ...

Frankly, both your attitude and your company's behaviour are despicable.

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

I have given all the answers I can.
Use your common sense for the rest. If thats failing you, then you better ask the guards so.

You haven't given me any answers, just a condescending attitude. What exactly is your justification for prying into private business? Even the Gardai need reasonable justification for it to be ethical - what makes you as an employer think you have the right to do it? I don't think I'm the one lacking common sense. If you really have no problem with all these tactics, why not openly explain why and how they're used? Because I see nothing but a power trip, the same attitude I encountered when working with IT guys all the time, 'we do it because we can.' At least they were just getting childish kicks, not ruining someone's chances of a job because they might have had a silly quote on their private Facebook page.

AARRRRGH

baalthor wrote: »

Of course it's not - there are 500 million Facebook users; 1 billion expected by year end - it was a ridiculous comment.



Even better, report them to the Data Protection Commissioner ...

@AARRRGH: If what you are posting is accurate then your organisation is in breach of many Data Protection and Privacy regulations.

You can familiarise yourself with the relevant requirements here ...

Frankly, both your attitude and your company's behaviour are despicable.

You should read that yourself.

I think you'll find that any data that crosses a companies network belongs to that company.

It doesnt matter about all those if, thens, buts at all. If your employer wants to read any data you send over their network, they can.
You can only guarantee privacy by not sending your data across your employers network.

AARRRRGH

[quote=[Deleted User];67092891]You haven't given me any answers, just a condescending attitude. What exactly is your justification for prying into private business? Even the Gardai need reasonable justification for it to be ethical - what makes you as an employer think you have the right to do it? I don't think I'm the one lacking common sense. If you really have no problem with all these tactics, why not openly explain why and how they're used? Because I see nothing but a power trip, the same attitude I encountered when working with IT guys all the time, 'we do it because we can.' At least they were just getting childish kicks, not ruining someone's chances of a job because they might have had a silly quote on their private Facebook page.[/QUOTE]

Would you not be better off going away and looking up the relevant laws and rights of your employers than arguing here?
Better still, ask the Gardai. You clearly dont believe me, so find out for yourself.

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

You should read that yourself.

I think you'll find that any data that crosses a companies network belongs to that company.

It doesnt matter about all those if, thens, buts at all. If your employer wants to read any data you send over their network, they can.
You can only guarantee privacy by not sending your data across your employers network.

Have you read it? Almost everything you've posted here is against those regulations. It doesn't matter what you can do.

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Would you not be better off going away and looking up the relevant laws and rights of your employers than arguing here?
Better still, ask the Gardai. You clearly dont believe me, so find out for yourself.

I will be sending this thread to a garda. What do you mean 'I don't believe you?' I've simply asked you to justify a single one of the things you said your company does, and you have not done so. So I will assume it's a gross abuse of power and an invasion of privacy at best. Finding out information on someone who isn't even working for you yet is not a reason to hack into a private social networking page.

And I'm still waiting for information on your foolproof system of making sure that you haven't got the wrong person. I didn't have a Facebook account for ages and I was constantly getting texts from people telling me they'd added me or sent me a message. These were friends who knew me well. There was another girl in the same year at college with my name who just happened to be from my hometown. So how would you know you hadn't got the wrong person? The fact is, you don't. Pretend you have special intelligence and MI5 agents working for you if you like, but there is no conceivable way of knowing that the Facebook page you're looking at is that of the person you just interviewed or are thinking about interviewing.

AARRRRGH

[quote=[Deleted User];67093257]I will be sending this thread to a garda. What do you mean 'I don't believe you?' I've simply asked you to justify a single one of the things you said your company does, and you have not done so. So I will assume it's a gross abuse of power and an invasion of privacy at best. Finding out information on someone who isn't even working for you yet is not a reason to hack into a private social networking page.

And I'm still waiting for information on your foolproof system of making sure that you haven't got the wrong person. I didn't have a Facebook account for ages and I was constantly getting texts from people telling me they'd added me or sent me a message. These were friends who knew me well. There was another girl in the same year at college with my name who just happened to be from my hometown. So how would you know you hadn't got the wrong person? The fact is, you don't. Pretend you have special intelligence and MI5 agents working for you if you like, but there is no conceivable way of knowing that the Facebook page you're looking at is that of the person you just interviewed or are thinking about interviewing.[/QUOTE]

My God you are hard work.
Use your head. How would you go about eliminating whether it was the person you thought it was or not? Well for anyone else it would be much the same procedure. But id say they would most likely be better at it than you would be, given you're inability to get your head around things in this thread.

Oh, and if you are curious as to what your employer is holding on you then you can use the Data Protection act for that.
It doesnt change the fact that that company can authorize anyone in the company to use it within the company. They just cant give it out to anyone else. Also the data must be stored, to come under the act.

ToasterSparks

I really think that the internet is a completely untrustworthy place to put any details. Once you've posted it online, it's there forever. You are always susceptible to hacking or whatever.

@AARRRRGH: I'm assuming when you talk about IT people getting into a person's Facebook profile (for example), you mean getting access to their profile information, and not accessing their username and password? I mean for a potential employee, not a current employee. What about if your page is completely private? I'm just curious really, my profile is harmless!

TBH, I wouldn't trust accessing email/social networking sites/other accounts on a work laptop at all. The company has your information, and it's dangerous to assume they won't use it (even though it is grossly unethical, probably illegal, etc.). Maybe that's the pessimist in me, but clearly it happens. There's always the chance there'll be an IT person with too much time on their hands that would find it interesting to snoop on your emails or see what your latest Facebook status is.

AARRRRGH

baalthor wrote: »

@AARRRGH: If what you are posting is accurate then your organisation is in breach of many Data Protection and Privacy regulations.

Which ones? Come on, point them out and dont be shy.

AARRRRGH

ToasterSparks wrote: »

I really think that the internet is a completely untrustworthy place to put any details. Once you've posted it online, it's there forever. You are always susceptible to hacking or whatever.

@AARRRRGH: I'm assuming when you talk about IT people getting into a person's Facebook profile (for example), you mean getting access to their profile information, and not accessing their username and password? I mean for a potential employee, not a current employee. What about if your page is completely private? I'm just curious really, my profile is harmless!

TBH, I wouldn't trust accessing email/social networking sites/other accounts on a work laptop at all. The company has your information, and it's dangerous to assume they won't use it (even though it is grossly unethical, probably illegal, etc.). Maybe that's the pessimist in me, but clearly it happens. There's always the chance there'll be an IT person with too much time on their hands that would find it interesting to snoop on your emails or see what your latest Facebook status is.

I wouldnt bother getting usernames and passwords. In fact it doesnt bother me at all what people post, apart from the odd one that I cant really go into.

Its more my boss who looks them up before giving us the go-ahead to hire them. We have no HR department but from experience in other companies HR depts are the worst for this. They'll actually ask IT to get details for them.

Your last sentence is exactly what goes on in every IT department. The lads will get usernames and passwords if they want to, but they couldnt be bothered. They are more into the gossip. If they are bored and find anything interesting the mail it on.

But my main point was that absolutely nothing online is safe. And definitely nothing you do on an employers network is private.

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

My God you are hard work.
Use your head. How would you go about eliminating whether it was the person you thought it was or not? Well for anyone else it would be much the same procedure. But id say they would most likely be better at it than you would be, given you're inability to get your head around things in this thread.

Oh, and if you are curious as to what your employer is holding on you then you can use the Data Protection act for that.
It doesnt change the fact that that company can authorize anyone in the company to use it within the company. They just cant give it out to anyone else. Also the data must be stored, to come under the act.

I'm hard work? You resort to insulting someone's intelligence instead of answering perfectly valid questions. How incredibly cowardly, bordering on bullying, even. But then, I wouldn't expect more from someone who thinks hacking into private Facebook accounts is acceptable and that using a work computer entitles the employer to get usernames and passwords of private e-mail accounts. Your view of social networking sites is also unbelievably narrow minded and simple.

You're not acknowledging that data protection isn't just about sharing information, it's about monitoring as well.

In principle, there is nothing to stop an employer specifying that use of equipment is prohibited for personal purposes but the likelihood is that most employers will allow a limited amount of personal use. In the absence of a clear policy, employees may be assumed to have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the workplace.

at a very minimum, staff should be aware of what the employer is collecting on them (directly or from other sources). Staff have a right of access to their data under section 4 of the Data Protection Acts.

any personal data processed in the course of monitoring must be adequate, relevant and not excessive and not retained for longer than necessary for the purpose for which the monitoring is justified.

So, does a 'reasonable expectation of privacy' in your book include your employer getting into private accounts? Do you inform staff that Hotmail passwords are being obtained, and that you have access to their private social networking pages? How are any of the things you mentioned relevant to purpose?

ToasterSparks wrote:

I really think that the internet is a completely untrustworthy place to put any details. Once you've posted it online, it's there forever. You are always susceptible to hacking or whatever.

Are you living in 1996? Everything is online now. Everything. All sorts of information about you, whether you put it there or not. Do you ever use internet banking? Order anything online? Complete online application forms for jobs or college? All of those things present a bigger risk to you than having a Facebook profile which states that you're a fan of Madonna, prefer red wine to white and studied Tourism in DIT.

ToasterSparks

AARRRRGH wrote: »

But my main point was that absolutely nothing online is safe. And definitely nothing you do on an employers network is private.

It's true, but it's continually surprising to me how few people are aware of the openness of the internet. And by that, I mean that once you post something online, it's there forever and you can never completely erase it. Likewise, privacy is in the eye of the computer user. Ticking 'private' on your Facebook account doesn't mean your privacy is sorted.

Using a work computer or work laptop for anything other than work-related stuff is asking for trouble. If you really need to check something, use mobile internet or your (personal) phone to do it. Buy your own laptop for personal use. You can be as angry as you want about snooping IT/HR people checking your info, but the only way to avoid it is to never use work computers for personal use.

Employers will always 'Google' you or check for you on Facebook. Asking the IT department to probe further is complete overkill though. I'm sure the majority of companies base their decisions on your CV and your interview performance.

ToasterSparks

[quote=[Deleted User];67095024]
Are you living in 1996? Everything is online now. Everything. All sorts of information about you, whether you put it there or not. Do you ever use internet banking? Order anything online? Complete online application forms for jobs or college? All of those things present a bigger risk to you than having a Facebook profile which states that you're a fan of Madonna, prefer red wine to white and studied Tourism in DIT.[/QUOTE]

It's not 1996, but the internet is by no means completely secure. I'm sure there are ways and means to access information on me online. Everything might be online nowadays, but that doesn't make your details safe. At all. Even if somebody else puts that information up there and not me. I'm not happy about it, but that is the truth of the matter.

If you are using a work computer or the company network to access online banking details, or order anything personally, then you shouldn't be. Because there's always the chance that someone might take your details (like an IT worker, or whatever). Keep personal stuff out of the office, and I'd certainly never use a company laptop to access the internet for my own personal use.

Let me be completely clear - it's unethical, it's probably illegal, it's downright not on to do anything like that (take someone's personal details or passwords). But it could happen. And no amount of laws can prevent it happening, unless you have concrete proof. Which would probably be very difficult. It's sounds absurd, but the internet is only young and there's nowhere near the level of security that is needed.

AARRRRGH

[quote=[Deleted User];67095024]I'm hard work? You resort to insulting someone's intelligence instead of answering perfectly valid questions. How incredibly cowardly, bordering on bullying, even. But then, I wouldn't expect more from someone who thinks hacking into private Facebook accounts is acceptable and that using a work computer entitles the employer to get usernames and passwords of private e-mail accounts. Your view of social networking sites is also unbelievably narrow minded and simple.

You're not acknowledging that data protection isn't just about sharing information, it's about monitoring as well.







So, does a 'reasonable expectation of privacy' in your book include your employer getting into private accounts? Do you inform staff that Hotmail passwords are being obtained, and that you have access to their private social networking pages? How are any of the things you mentioned relevant to purpose?



Are you living in 1996? Everything is online now. Everything. All sorts of information about you, whether you put it there or not. Do you ever use internet banking? Order anything online? Complete online application forms for jobs or college? All of those things present a bigger risk to you than having a Facebook profile which states that you're a fan of Madonna, prefer red wine to white and studied Tourism in DIT.[/QUOTE]

Very, very hard work.
I think you are the one living in 1996.
If you dont want to be aware that this is commonplace then
Go ahead. Bury your head in the sand. You'll feel better.

Heres an example of how it happens.
- People you work with know your boards name. they log in every now and then for a nose, to see what you are on about lately.
- At this stage now in this thread, you really, really sound like you are worried about something you have to hide and are worried about someone finding it.
- So your workmate reads this thread and says "Hey, I think I'll find out what shes worried about and goes getting your usernames and passwords that you've typed in on the work network."
- You come on in the next post and say "Dont be stupid, of course i've nothing to hide."
- But they dont believe it now and are even more curious.
- They find something juicy and send an email to their mate "Dont tell anyone else but ......"
- That mate then forwards it onto another few mates saying "Dont tell anyone else but ......"
and so on.

ToasterSparks

No, all joking aside, this is a very interesting topic, and there's lots of interesting points being brought up.

It's downright scary to think how easily someone could access your personal online information. But in the big, unregulated world of the internet (which admittedly, is still quite new in the grand scheme of things), anything is possible. And if you're a bored, tech savvy IT worker with access to people's details over the company network, then anything is possible.

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Very, very hard work.
I think you are the one living in 1996.
If you dont want to be aware that this is commonplace then
Go ahead. Bury your head in the sand. You'll feel better.

I'm not burying my head in the sand. I'm shocked by your attitude that it's absolutely fine for an employer to totally invade their employees' privacy just because they can. You can quit the condescending act. Anyone in the world can say something and then refuse to back it up. You think it's 'perfectly obvious' how a person's Facebook account can be used against them, but it isn't. I can think of ways it might be, but I can't be sure what exactly you're going to use against someone, can I? Someone who wasn't a) spouting bullsh*t or b) had something to hide would have no problem answering the perfectly sensible, reasonable questions on here.

Heres an example of how it happens.
- People you work with know your boards name. they log in every now and then for a nose, to see what you are on about lately.
- At this stage now in this thread, you really, really sound like you are worried about something you have to hide and are worried about someone finding it.
- So your workmate reads this thread and says "Hey, I think I'll find out what shes worried about and goes getting your usernames and passwords that you've typed in on the work network."
- You come on in the next post and say "Dont be stupid, of course i've nothing to hide."
- But they dont believe it now and are even more curious.
- They find something juicy and send an email to their mate "Dont tell anyone else but ......"
- That mate then forwards it onto another few mates saying "Dont tell anyone else but ......"
and so on.

And that's absolutely disgusting and unethical. There is absolutely NO good reason to hack into a private account unless something illegal like child porn is suspected, and then you call the guards and THEY look into it. I am fairly sure that that is also illegal (will get a guard to check it out) and if it isn't, it goes against all ethics and human decency. Would you like it if I was working at your hospital/doctor's surgery, found something scandalous in your medical records and forwarded it to my mates or your colleagues? I could do it, but it would be an absolutely scummy thing to do. I've been in plenty of positions where I could have looked up personal and sensitive information and I haven't. Of course I know it happens. I didn't think I'd see someone openly defending it.

It's downright scary to think how easily someone could access your personal online information. But in the big, unregulated world of the internet (which admittedly, is still quite new in the grand scheme of things), anything is possible. And if you're a bored, tech savvy IT worker with access to people's details over the company network, then anything is possible.

Of course it's possible. But unless you're a complete d*ck, you don't abuse your power like that.

Employers will always 'Google' you or check for you on Facebook. Asking the IT department to probe further is complete overkill though. I'm sure the majority of companies base their decisions on your CV and your interview performance.

Exactly. The former is normal and to be expected. The latter is an invasion of privacy and totally unethical.

If you are using a work computer or the company network to access online banking details, or order anything personally, then you shouldn't be. Because there's always the chance that someone might take your details (like an IT worker, or whatever). Keep personal stuff out of the office, and I'd certainly never use a company laptop to access the internet for my own personal use.

I was talking about the Internet in general. It's silly to say that having a Facebook account would mean too much information available about you, if you ever use it for any of the stuff I mentioned.

AARRRRGH

[quote=[Deleted User];67095776]I'm not burying my head in the sand. I'm shocked by your attitude that it's absolutely fine for an employer to totally invade their employees' privacy just because they can. You can quit the condescending act. Anyone in the world can say something and then refuse to back it up. You think it's 'perfectly obvious' how a person's Facebook account can be used against them, but it isn't. I can think of ways it might be, but I can't be sure what exactly you're going to use against someone, can I? Someone who wasn't a) spouting bullsh*t or b) had something to hide would have no problem answering the perfectly sensible, reasonable questions on here.



And that's absolutely disgusting and unethical. There is absolutely NO good reason to hack into a private account unless something illegal like child porn is suspected, and then you call the guards and THEY look into it. I am fairly sure that that is also illegal (will get a guard to check it out) and if it isn't, it goes against all ethics and human decency. Would you like it if I was working at your hospital/doctor's surgery, found something scandalous in your medical records and forwarded it to my mates or your colleagues? I could do it, but it would be an absolutely scummy thing to do. I've been in plenty of positions where I could have looked up personal and sensitive information and I haven't. Of course I know it happens. I didn't think I'd see someone openly defending it.



Of course it's possible. But unless you're a complete d*ck, you don't abuse your power like that.



Exactly. The former is normal and to be expected. The latter is an invasion of privacy and totally unethical.



I was talking about the Internet in general. It's silly to say that having a Facebook account would mean too much information available about you, if you ever use it for any of the stuff I mentioned.[/QUOTE]

sigh.
Talk about missing the point. :rolleyes:

AARRRRGH

ToasterSparks wrote: »

No, all joking aside, this is a very interesting topic, and there's lots of interesting points being brought up.

It's downright scary to think how easily someone could access your personal online information. But in the big, unregulated world of the internet (which admittedly, is still quite new in the grand scheme of things), anything is possible. And if you're a bored, tech savvy IT worker with access to people's details over the company network, then anything is possible.

Its very common. I bet you dont know an IT person who hasnt seen or looked up something they arent supposed to.
How much is x getting paid? Would be the most popular.
Even seeing someone come up on the logs hitting boards a lot would make you open the log, get their username and see what has them posting so much.
Then there is the info that your mates get and they send on to you.
Ive seen medical records of people who I shouldnt in public life.
Ive read private emails from people in public life.
Loads of stuff.

In the grand scheme though, unless someone knows you or has a reason to look you up they wont. What reason would they have.

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

sigh.
Talk about missing the point. :rolleyes:

No. No, I don't think I'm the one missing the point. If you're going to tell us you use Facebook against people, you could at least say what it is exactly that makes you decide not to hire someone. For all I know, you could see the picture and not offer an interview because the person is black. Or if they had a few piercings. Or because their political views are different to yours. Or, as I said, you could get totally the wrong person and miss out on a great candidate. Or are you telling me that when they get to the interview you ask them if they have a Facebook profile, and if their username is SiobhanG8271? :rolleyes:

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Its very common. I bet you dont know an IT person who hasnt seen or looked up something they arent supposed to.
How much is x getting paid? Would be the most popular.
Even seeing someone come up on the logs hitting boards a lot would make you open the log, get their username and see what has them posting so much.
Then there is the info that your mates get and they send on to you.
Ive seen medical records of people who I shouldnt in public life.
Ive read private emails from people in public life.
Loads of stuff.

Why are you going on like you're proud of that? Do you like being unprofessional? Do you like that quality in your staff?

CiaranC

AARRRRGH wrote: »

If its over https you are safe enough.
But a lot of companies now (not us) are using key loggers. If they want your username and password they can get them, but they more than likely wouldnt be bothered anyway.

LOL, no they arent. You are living in Walter Mitty land mate.

You think reputable companies are sniffing username and passwords of their employees personal accounts as a matter of policy. Can you give an example of a company that does this?

AARRRRGH

CiaranC wrote: »

LOL, no they arent. You are living in Walter Mitty land mate.

You think reputable companies are sniffing username and passwords of their employees personal accounts as a matter of policy. Can you give an example of a company that does this?

I think some people here think they are living in a world where their employers dont care about what their employees are doing on their network, during time they are supposed to be working. Only have to look at the amount of posts on boards during working hours for that.

I know of a lot of companies here who employ keyloggers and even software where they can watch your screen while you are on your pc. Im hardly going to name them now am i, but if you can use google you can find some of them. Ive even worked for some, though my current company only monitors web pages visited and phone calls.

A quick google and the first few results. You can do some more research yourself. Or you can stay in your own Mitty land wit Malcolm Grumpy Reaction and believe it doesnt happen. Its like everything else in life. There are rules that can be pushed and bent with no consequences - Like speeding, or govt employees fiddling expenses.

http://www.spectorsoft.com/

http://www.spector360.com/

http://www.staffcop.com/

http://www.refog.com/employee-computer-monitoring-software.html

http://www.allbusiness.com/technology/technology-services/254930-1.html

http://www.allbusiness.com/human-resources/workforce-management/218965-1.html

http://www.itworld.com/companies-fire-employees-email-080228

http://www.forbes.com/2006/10/25/leadership-hewlett-packard-spying-lead-manage-cx_hc_1025fiveways.html

AARRRRGH

[quote=[Deleted User];67095887]No. No, I don't think I'm the one missing the point. If you're going to tell us you use Facebook against people, you could at least say what it is exactly that makes you decide not to hire someone. For all I know, you could see the picture and not offer an interview because the person is black. Or if they had a few piercings. Or because their political views are different to yours. Or, as I said, you could get totally the wrong person and miss out on a great candidate. Or are you telling me that when they get to the interview you ask them if they have a Facebook profile, and if their username is SiobhanG8271? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


If they have your name,where you're from, where you grew up (like maybe you could be English, but spent a lot of years in northern ireland and then Ireland), your schools, universities (such as UCL, Trinity), year you graduated, what you studied (maybe French and Spanish), date of birth, star sign, you might be listed under Gemini somewhere as opposed to someone with the same name who isnt, what result you got in uni (like 68% which would narrow you down) companies you worked for, phone number (I could just google it like xxxxxxx695680), and various other bits that they get from your CV. Then they might ask you things in the interview that gives even more info. Like if one of your parents was Italian, or what clubs you are in, your boyfriends name (im sure searches of him will lead to you), where he lives, like if his name is xxxx and he lives in Korea, then hes easy to narrow down, things like that etc. What groups you are in (like African music etc). Who is your teacher or you Priest. Im pretty sure any competent person can track you down very quickly, either through your online activities or your friends online activities.

Should I go on?

Its pretty easy to follow up info you get. eg.
So say I discover who you are on boards, i could do a search and see when you post.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=13387169&pp=25

Oh look posting during the working day a lot and most of the evenings. Tells me 2 things. You dont spend your full working day working. You post on boards during the day a lot and the evening, so its not like you are working late.

Well thats enough not to hire you for some people. Doesnt have to be them all, just the one who interviews you.


Only you Malcolm Grumpy Reaction will be able to appreciate the amount of information I have found about you already as it wont be obvious to anyone else. And I didnt even need your CV. And that was with 5 minutes searching. i even saw photos of you. And Ive never heard of you until this thread.

Does that not show you what someone with even more info to start with could get if they want very quickly.

ToasterSparks

Malcolm Grumpy Reaction wrote:

Of course it's possible. But unless you're a complete d*ck, you don't abuse your power like that.

Yeah, but from what AARRRRGH is saying, it seems like lots of people are, as you put it, complete d*cks. I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that it is wrong. It definitely is. But it is happening, like it or not.

TBH, I was hoping that my usual paranoid self was wrong, and that companies don't go fishing for info or track your online activity (through the work network at any rate). But it seems like they do. And much more than I'd like or prefer.

And as for finding someone's Facebook or whatever online, it's not that difficult really! Plug in a name and a university network and you'll probably hit on who you want. Or if they've used their CV email address to register on Facebook, you'll find them straight away with a search.

You talk about employers being biased against someone because of their race, political leanings, body piercings etc. There might be laws against discrimination, but that definitely doesn't stop it happening. And not just discrimination by checking them online. There's nothing to stop an employer telling a recruitment agency to find a young male Irish graduate for a vacancy they have, or not to give the job to a pregnant woman. It's discrimination, but they do it.

Just because there are laws, it doesn't mean they are upheld to the letter. That's in an ideal world, not the real one.

AARRRRGH

AARRRRGH wrote: »

If they have your name,where you're from, where you grew up (like maybe you could be English, but spent a lot of years in northern ireland and then Ireland), your schools, universities (such as UCL, Trinity), year you graduated, what you studied (maybe French and Spanish), date of birth, star sign, you might be listed under Gemini somewhere as opposed to someone with the same name who isnt, what result you got in uni (like 68% which would narrow you down) companies you worked for, phone number (I could just google it like xxxxxxx695680), and various other bits that they get from your CV. Then they might ask you things in the interview that gives even more info. Like if one of your parents was Italian, or what clubs you are in, your boyfriends name (im sure searches of him will lead to you), where he lives, like if his name is xxxx and he lives in Korea, then hes easy to narrow down, things like that etc. What groups you are in (like African music etc). Who is your teacher or you Priest. Im pretty sure any competent person can track you down very quickly, either through your online activities or your friends online activities.

Should I go on?

Its pretty easy to follow up info you get. eg.
So say I discover who you are on boards, i could do a search and see when you post.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=13387169&pp=25

Oh look posting during the working day a lot and most of the evenings. Tells me 2 things. You dont spend your full working day working. You post on boards during the day a lot and the evening, so its not like you are working late.

Well thats enough not to hire you for some people. Doesnt have to be them all, just the one who interviews you.


Only you Malcolm Grumpy Reaction will be able to appreciate the amount of information I have found about you already as it wont be obvious to anyone else. And I didnt even need your CV. And that was with 5 minutes searching. i even saw photos of you. And Ive never heard of you until this thread.

Does that not show you what someone with even more info to start with could get if they want very quickly.

Some of that is right (presumably what I've posted on Boards), some of it (most) totally wrong (sounds a bit like my sister though, which is really weird). I'm a student and mostly self employed, so why would I spent my full day working etc? Why would you assume I was a lazy worker instead of thinking perhaps there's a reason for not working all day/evening? Is this really something that would matter? Being a member of 'I hate foreigners' or 'Muslims should die', sure, you'd think, red flag but posting at certain times of day? And why would anyone ask something like where are your parents from in an interview? Or about a boyfriend? I've never been asked anything that personal, only the usual 'what was your last job' stuff.

AARRRRGH

[quote=[Deleted User];67099931]Some of that is right (presumably what I've posted on Boards), some of it (most) totally wrong (sounds a bit like my sister though, which is really weird). I'm a student and mostly self employed, so why would I spent my full day working etc? Why would you assume I was a lazy worker instead of thinking perhaps there's a reason for not working all day/evening? Is this really something that would matter? Being a member of 'I hate foreigners' or 'Muslims should die', sure, you'd think, red flag but posting at certain times of day? And why would anyone ask something like where are your parents from in an interview? Or about a boyfriend? I've never been asked anything that personal, only the usual 'what was your last job' stuff.[/QUOTE]

Id know if you were working from your cv, so id know if you were posting when you were supposed to be working anyway and could make the call on it then.

An Interview is a conversation. Not just a series of questions. You are interviewing as a person, not a qualification. All sorts of things come up, as they do in a conversation. If you find you are in an interview and all of the questions are about the job, then you arent doing well in that interview.

None of what I found was found on boards. It came from several different sources. Including some of your friends facebook pages, that arent set to private.
I could even tell you what age you were when you lost your virginity.

Imagine what can be found out about you with the background of your CV and an interview.

<SNIP>

This links to your friends. Which link back to you in other places.

Magenta

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Id know if you were working from your cv, so id know if you were posting when you were supposed to be working anyway and could make the call on it then.

I suppose you'd magically know every shift that every candidate has ever worked too, as well as every holiday they have taken?
And therefore magically know every day and every hour they posted on Boards when they should have been working?
Or do you just presume the whole world works 9 to 5? :rolleyes:

AARRRRGH wrote: »

I could even tell you what age you were when you lost your virginity.

Can you explain yourself here? Magically know times and dates of people's sex lives too yeah?

AARRRRGH

Magenta wrote: »

I suppose you'd magically know every shift that every candidate has ever worked too, as well as every holiday they have taken?
And therefore magically know every day and every hour they posted on Boards when they should have been working?
Or do you just presume the whole world works 9 to 5? :rolleyes:



Can you explain yourself here? Magically know times and dates of people's sex lives too yeah?

Please try to keep up.

Im not going to post her personal info here. Just making a point.

And how would you know my working hours? Or exact duties? How would you know I wasn't posting during breaks, or that I only worked 2-3 days a week?
Of course you ask questions in an interview, but if I was asked about my background or about a relationship, I'd tell you to mind your own business. Because those questions are bordering on inappropriate and creepy. Do you REALLY ask people about their relationships in a job interview? And do you really think you're never barking up the wrong tree?