Independent Inserts on RTE Shows

Lenny Lovett

I've noticed a few inserts on the morning show on Radio 1 recently which are basically interviews by the presenter on a particular subject. They are credited to an independent production company Red Diamond Media Ltd. Why, if the programme presenter is interviewing the subject, is that segment outsourced to an Independent company? Why are the resident producers not handling it? And most of all how much is it costing?

tbh

any examples?

Lenny Lovett

tbh wrote: »

any examples?

I've heard them most mornings on the Pat Kenny / Myles Dungan show. They've covered many topics ..... Can't remember what this mornings was....:o Must've been riveting!

mike65

I heard one last week, did a double take. "An XXX production for RTE" type end piece. I don't recall it being introduced as such, the item sinply began without any indication or pause for effect.

Lenny Lovett

Yeah, it's a strange thing that despite having their own production team on the show they're 'buying in' content. I've heard of full shows being independently produced (many examples on BBC Radio - Steve Wright, Jonathan Woss, Pick of the Pops to name but a few) but I've not heard of inserts being independently produced. I thought it may be a 'jobs for the boys' effort by some retired RTE bod but having googled Red Diamond, It's run by an ex Beeb lady.

mike65

Could we have individual phone calls to Liveline provided by outside companies?

TimmyTarmac

An example of it is Brendan Burgess of askaboutmoney.com giving advice to punters in a weekly Q&A on The Pat Kenny Show (much to the annoyance of the posters in the Accomodation and Property forum here by the way).
Presenter poses the questions from Joe and Mary Insolvent and Burgess answers.
At the end presenter says it was a blah blah production for RTE.
There were a number of opportunities of this kind advertised by RTE at the start of the year I think for all networks. I'm no expert but I believe it's part of the Broadcasting Act and is now a legal requirement to spend a percentage of RTE's radio budget on independent productions just as they do in television.

Barname

I can only assume that this is a way for RTE to hide the inflated salaries paid to 'their' stars

I want full declaration on sums paid for what and to whom (if production companies, full declaration of owners, beneficiaries)

2500 staff !!! doing what???

Real FM

Last year RTE Radio were told a certain amount of airtime has to be filled with independently produced content. I attended a seminar they held for independent radio producers. It looks like they're just putting there orders into action. They dont have any choice in the matter so it's not a way of hidind pay etc as suggested.

Barname

Real FM wrote: »

Last year RTE Radio were told a certain amount of airtime has to be filled with independently produced content. I attended a seminar they held for independent radio producers. It looks like they're just putting there orders into action. They dont have any choice in the matter so it's not a way of hidind pay etc as suggested.

your statement is not factually correct

Real FM

Do you want to expand on that?:rolleyes:

tbh

Real FM wrote: »

Do you want to expand on that?:rolleyes:

yeah - please do. Either expand on it, or withdraw the post. Before you make any other posts in the radio forum, please.

Barname

Real FM wrote: »

Last year RTE Radio were told a certain amount of airtime has to be filled with independently produced content. I attended a seminar they held for independent radio producers. It looks like they're just putting there orders into action. They dont have any choice in the matter so it's not a way of hidind pay etc as suggested.

your statement is not factually correct.

for example;

Real FM stated: 'They dont have any choice in the matter so it's not a way of hidind pay etc as suggested'

first off, I will correct your statement by assuming you meant to type 'hiding' and not 'hidind'

now lets deal with the facts.

You cannot state that RTE 'stars' production companies will not or have not won contracts for Independent Inserts

If they do under cover of a shell company or other similar vehicle then their income will be increased

My theory (that you were so quick to dismiss) still stands

Yours is factually incorrect

everyone happy?

TimmyTarmac

I'm sure the awarding of these gigs or contracts will be a matter of public record so if any familiar heads are luring in the background one would hope it would come to light.
That business show that George Lee is fronting at the weekend is another example but I understand that one of the conditions of these contracts is that RTE personnel are not to be used - the whole point of the exercise I would have thought.
Seeing how Lee is a member of staff, it would seem that RTE are already breaching the guidelines - I'm open to correction on this.

Lenny Lovett

You are, indeed, corect Barname. Most of RTE's top names are not employed by RTE but are contracted to RTE by their own companies. So I guess these would come in under 'independent productions' too?

TimmyTarmac

Again, I might be talking through my hat here, but the companies owned by the Kennys and Finucanes of this world are suppliers of a particular thing - a talent, a presenter only where RTE is concerned not a production company as such.
Same as the supplier of sandwiches and wraps at the famous canteen in Montrose where all those outstanding programme ideas are born.
Feel free to tell me I haven't a scooby doo if this is wrong. It's only what I read in the Sunday Business Post and such like anyway.

Lenny Lovett

Fair point Timmy, but that seems to be exactly what these "contributors" that are providing the inserts are surely? They can't be bringing in a separate producer for the interviewer AND the interviewee... can they?

TimmyTarmac

I can only imagine in the case of those Q&A inserts in the Pat Kenny Show that the subject matter is researched and the brief prepared by the production company, so the production company is committed to filing 6 mins of airtime. All Pat or Uncle Miles has to do is read the brief and ask the questions with the studio producer - RTE person - having the final control. Does that sound right?
It's a bit of a dogs breakfast alright if that's how it's done.

Lenny Lovett

It just seems totally excessive and unnecessary. It's a simple process: Choose interviewee, research subject, brief interviewer, do interview. Instead they have two sets of production staff doing the one job. Daft but that's Arr Tee Eee Anseo Agaibh for ya!

Real FM

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

It just seems totally excessive and unnecessary. It's a simple process: Choose interviewee, research subject, brief interviewer, do interview. Instead they have two sets of production staff doing the one job. Daft but that's Arr Tee Eee Anseo Agaibh for ya!

As an independent radio producer it's fantastic. A bit of extra work at the moment goes a long way.

I've been listening to a lot of the inserts and I can safely say by far and a way the vast majority of these inserts are produced by production companies that have no ties to RTE (ie aren't presenters on RTE). These are people Ive been working with in the industry for a long time and independently produce for almost every major station in the country.

Whilst you might think it's excessive, this is not RTE's fault. This is something they were originally instructed to do by the BCI. I'm sure some RTE producers themselves find it frustrating having to out source content when they could simply do it in house.

Frustrating, yes perhaps for RTE. But also a massive help to us independent producers and also a great way of nurturing talent.

Lenny Lovett

Real FM wrote: »

As an independent radio producer it's fantastic. A bit of extra work at the moment goes a long way.

These are people Ive been working with in the industry for a long time and independently produce for almost every major station in the country.

Fair dues, Real FM. Can you give us some examples of the programmes that have been bought/commissioned by "major stations" as you call them?

Real FM wrote: »

Frustrating, yes perhaps for RTE. But also a massive help to us independent producers and also a great way of nurturing talent.

Maybe nurturing production talent but there's not much new young on-air talent getting a chance on these productions is there? If I'm wrong is there any examples you can give of such new talent?

tbh

I have a bit of a problem with your tone, lenny.

I'm not directing all of this at you specifically, I just want to give a bit of background as to why I have that problem. It seems to me that lately this forum has had a slant of default criticism of RTE, and anyone who points out any positive aspects of any part of programming or policy is derided as someone with a vested interest in RTE. I'm not really happy about that.

I also want to point out that I don't know Real FM in any other capacity than as an occasional poster on this forum,

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Fair dues, Real FM. Can you give us some examples of the programmes that have been bought/commissioned by "major stations" as you call them?

Why did you put "major stations" in quotes? Is it not obvious the type of stations he's talking about? Why did you say "as you call them"?

Maybe nurturing production talent but there's not much new young on-air talent getting a chance on these productions is there? If I'm wrong is there any examples you can give of such new talent?

It seems to me to be quite obvious, based on his posts, that Real FM is involved in the production side of things. AS such, he probably has no interest or influence in RTEs presenter policy. He, and the production companies we are talking about, are generating content. I feel it's unfair to criticize a policy of generating content from more independent sources, or indeed the companies who generate this content, because RTE don't have a similar policy or obligation to introduce new presenters.

I feel that this move is a positive move, and it's worked very well in the UK, where it's given smaller production houses a chance to get content included on stations like Radio 4 - breaking the monopoly of the BBC to a certain extent. It's a shame we can't support and applaud that, in and of itself, rather than go down the trite old road of simply accusing RTE of using it as a smokescreen for a rouse to fiddle the books - an argument I still haven't seen a shred of evidence for.

Also, I'm speaking as a user here, not a mod. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

Lenny Lovett

tbh wrote: »

I have a bit of a problem with your tone, lenny.

I'm not directing all of this at you specifically, I just want to give a bit of background as to why I have that problem. It seems to me that lately this forum has had a slant of default criticism of RTE, and anyone who points out any positive aspects of any part of programming or policy is derided as someone with a vested interest in RTE. I'm not really happy about that.

I also want to point out that I don't know Real FM in any other capacity than as an occasional poster on this forum,

I'm sorry if my tone is not as it should be ( How you can judge my tone through written word is somewhat puzzling!?)but I can assure you that I'm not anti RTE. I'm anti waste of resources which is what they are doing. I believe RTE is the best and by far the most professional broadcasting company in this country. Mainly because of the professionalism and creativity of their people.

tbh wrote: »

Why did you put "major stations" in quotes? Is it not obvious the type of stations he's talking about? Why did you say "as you call them"?

It depends on your definition of Major Stations. in my opinion The only major stations in Ireland are the nationwide stations: RTE, Today FM, and Newstalk. RTE buy a fair amount of content from Independent producers but Today FM and Newstalk don't do they?? What other Major stations are there and what do they buy in? I was asking for examples from Real FM purely out of curiosity.

tbh wrote: »

It seems to me to be quite obvious, based on his posts, that Real FM is involved in the production side of things. AS such, he probably has no interest or influence in RTEs presenter policy. He, and the production companies we are talking about, are generating content. I feel it's unfair to criticize a policy of generating content from more independent sources, or indeed the companies who generate this content, because RTE don't have a similar policy or obligation to introduce new presenters.

I feel that this move is a positive move, and it's worked very well in the UK, where it's given smaller production houses a chance to get content included on stations like Radio 4 - breaking the monopoly of the BBC to a certain extent. It's a shame we can't support and applaud that, in and of itself, rather than go down the trite old road of simply accusing RTE of using it as a smokescreen for a rouse to fiddle the books - an argument I still haven't seen a shred of evidence for.

Also, I'm speaking as a user here, not a mod. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

I'm not criticizing the content of the independent producers per se, although I don't believe it's all of a high standard as, equally some of RTE's isn't either as equally some of Newstalks, Today FM's etc aren't. I'm criticising the kind of policy where they fob us off with a so called independent production fronted by a presenter who is a currently direct employee of RTE eg George Lee. My idea of Independent would be fronted by an Independent presenter.

dib

Barname wrote: »

now lets deal with the facts.

You cannot state that RTE 'stars' production companies will not or have not won contracts for Independent Inserts

You cannot prove that they have. Pointless divergence off topic.

Barname

dib wrote: »

You cannot prove that they have. Pointless divergence off topic.

ergo my request for transparency and declaration...

partial quotes from a follow up post are disingenuous....

tbh

Barname wrote: »

ergo my request for transparency and declaration...

partial quotes from a follow up post are disingenuous....

your argument seems to be that this is merely a rouse for RTE to pay presenters more money "off the books".

I can only assume that this is a way for RTE to hide the inflated salaries paid to 'their' stars

but Real FM has said that he personally knows production companies getting paid who have no ties to RTE. It's the BCI making them do this, it's not even RTE's Idea.

I'm not going to allow you keep making these accusations against RTE based on your assumptions or hunches. If you've proof, by all means, let us know. But if you don't, I suggest you get a blog.

Barname

tbh wrote: »

your argument seems to be that this is merely a rouse for RTE to pay presenters more money "off the books".



but Real FM has said that he personally knows production companies getting paid who have no ties to RTE. It's the BCI making them do this, it's not even RTE's Idea.

I'm not going to allow you keep making these accusations against RTE based on your assumptions or hunches. If you've proof, by all means, let us know. But if you don't, I suggest you get a blog.

you sent me a PM demanding that I respond to my OP within 2 hours, I was offline but complied when I logged in.

You have now waited DAYS to respond.

I will respond to the context and content of your post this evening.

tbh

No response is necessary barname. If you have a problem with what I'm telling you, you can contact the cmods.

tbh

actually barname - forget what I said.

I don't know why I formed the impression of your posts that I did, but I've done a look over your posts in the radio forum and they aren't as bad as I thought.

Public accusation, public apology. I would appreciate it if you could provide a bit more text about the reason you are saying the stuff you're saying, but you're no worse than anyone else in that respect, so sorry for the hard line.

TimmyTarmac

I think this development is to be welcomed, especially for programmes and series. I just find the Q&A insert way of doing it a bit cumbersome for me at least. However, in general it's a good idea for a bit of fresh thinking and presentation on Radio One, 2FM etc.
For a number of years, Lyric have had some very fine programmes made through the BCI Sound and Vision fund and various aspects of the Arts and music.
I'm looking forward to what'll be on offer.

Barname

The first time I heard one of the inserts and the insert was voiced/presented by Sile Seoige

details here: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/todaywithpatkenny/2010-07-19.html

Visiting the Blarney Stone

Myles was joined in studio by Sile Seoige for our weekly “Rate my tourist attraction” slot...where each week we visit a popular tourist attraction and ask a group of visitors to give us their rating out of 20.
This week Sile kissed the Blarney Stone`
The report was by Sile Seoige and it was an independent production brought to you by Clockwork.

Does Clockwork = Clockwork Management Limited?

The same Clockwork Management Limited that received €20,400 from the BAI for Families of the 21st Century?

http://www.bai.ie/pdfs/20100309_svradior9fundingbreakdown_vfinal_lml.pdf

Then you have RTE links to a Clockwork Management Limited via for example Fiona Kelly

http://www.rte.eu/news/morningireland/fionakelly.html

Fiona also works as a media consultant with Clockwork Management, a marketing and sponsorships agency. She is on the Executive Committee of AIRPI, the Association of Independent Radio Producers

also from AIRPI Website...

http://www.radioproducers.ie/members/fiona-kelly/

A former RTE Radio One producer, Fiona Kelly now works as an independent radio producer and presenter and media consultant as well as continuing to be one of the voices on “It says in the papers” on Morning Ireland.

So, the first clip I heard was presented by Sile Seoige who has in the past received pay cheques via RTE and the company that produced the slot is associated with a former RTE producer and sometimes voice Fiona Kelly.

All I ask for is transparency for when I go digging it can get ugly...

FlutterinBantam

Fair play to you Barname, seems like you know what you are talking about.

TimmyTarmac

As regards that 'Rate my tourist attraction slot', there is nothing wrong or untoward about having it presented by Ms Seoige if she's not a staff member of RTE, which she probably is not.
And if it's produced by a company associated with Ms. Kelly, who is now no longer an RTE producer, that's not breaching any rules either, as I understand it.
I don't know for sure but in that case rules are probably not being broken.
It's probably too early to know if these commissions are going to end up being awarded to folk with closer ties than others to RTE, we'd have to know about a few more of them before we could draw any conclusions.
People like that may have a better idea of what might get commissioned from their experience, but you couldn't say that for sure in fairness.
As you say, Barname, being above board and transparent is not too much to ask.

Barname

FlutterinBantam and TimmyTarmac, thanks, appreciate the appreciation...

Real FM & dib have failed to respond to my post http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67126656&postcount=31 - I am always wary of posters that slam other posters yet when responded to with damning evidence they disappear - their credibility is now shot imo

tbh

Barname wrote: »

FlutterinBantam and TimmyTarmac, thanks, appreciate the appreciation...

Real FM & dib have failed to respond to my post http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67126656&postcount=31 - I am always wary of posters that slam other posters yet when responded to with damning evidence they disappear - their credibility is now shot imo

we're not interested in your opinions on other posters, thanks barname. If you have a problem with a post, please use the report post function.

Barname

tbh wrote: »

we're not interested in your opinions on other posters, thanks barname. If you have a problem with a post, please use the report post function.

hold on a second, read through the thread, they were more than happy to provide their opinion on my posts and then when confronted with confirmation of what I said they disappeared

tbh

nobody posted an opinion on you barname. Please use PM for any reply - final warning.

tbh

Barname wrote: »

hold on a second, read through the thread, they were more than happy to provide their opinion on my posts and then when confronted with confirmation of what I said they disappeared

pre-edit: they were more than happy to provide their opinion on me.

post edit: they were more than happy to provide their opinion on my posts

you've obviously grasped the difference.

Barname

tbh wrote: »

pre-edit: they were more than happy to provide their opinion on me.

post edit: they were more than happy to provide their opinion on my posts

you've obviously grasped the difference.

why is the thread been dragged off topic?

The meat in this thread is

(a) Lenny asked the why? and the cost?

(b) I asked for transparency from RTE on the matter

when pressed I provided an example of how the very first 'Independent production' I listened to was actually full of RTE connections

ignore the side dishes folk, stick to the meat

tbh

barname banned for three days.

Real FM

Barname wrote: »

FlutterinBantam and TimmyTarmac, thanks, appreciate the appreciation...

Real FM & dib have failed to respond to my post http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67126656&postcount=31 - I am always wary of posters that slam other posters yet when responded to with damning evidence they disappear - their credibility is now shot imo

Barname apologies for not responding sooner, I'm currently in The States and am generally trying to avoid the net as much as possible.

I think it's a little OTT to say that my credibility is shot. As far as I can see the only thing I have to respond to is your question about which other major stations use independent productions. I don't see any "Damning Evidence" in this thread that suggests stations such as Newstalk or Today FM don't use independent productions, which I am yet to respond to.

Anyway, yes RTE are by far and a way the national stations that use the most independently produced material. This is evident in independently produced full programmes such as The Doc On One and The Curious Ear. However, a lot of independent producers are often asked to make inserts (rather than full programmes) for Newstalk, in particular for their weekend programming. Whilst Today FM don't do it as much as they used to (tightening their belt I'm guessing) they have often used independent reports etc throughout their weekend schedule.

To be honest with you most independent producers in Ireland have had some sort of tie with RTE - but the radio industry in Ireland isn't exactly the biggest.

If there are any other points that I have made that have be responded that are backed up with "Damning Evidence" that I have failed to deal with let me know and I will respond.

My argument is simple. RTE have to provide independent content on air (Due to the BCI) and as an independent producer I think its great for us in the industry.

I mightn't get back online for a few days so no need to panic if I don't respond straight away.

Lenny Lovett

Thanks for the comprehensive reply RealFM. A few queries for you:

Real FM wrote: »

Anyway, yes RTE are by far and a way the national stations that use the most independently produced material. This is evident in independently produced full programmes such as The Doc On One and The Curious Ear. However, a lot of independent producers are often asked to make inserts (rather than full programmes) for Newstalk, in particular for their weekend programming.

Any examples of these (Newstalk) productions/inserts? ie what programmes are they in and what topics?

Real FM wrote: »

Whilst Today FM don't do it as much as they used to (tightening their belt I'm guessing) they have often used independent reports etc throughout their weekend schedule.

Again, any examples of these?

Real FM wrote: »

To be honest with you most independent producers in Ireland have had some sort of tie with RTE

Which is why we suspect that the 'jobs for the boys' culture is at work.

mike65

Red Diamond Media (?) got a slot today about something or other to do with science or something. Dungan puts me to sleep I have to say, just a background drone.

Lenny Lovett

mike65 wrote: »

Red Diamond Media (?) got a slot today about something or other to do with science or something.

Yeah, I heard it - Leo Enright - another job for an ex RTE head. It's a shame Barnamegot banned as he had some more interesting info on it.... I guess the truth was hurting some people?:rolleyes:

tbh

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Yeah, I heard it - Leo Enright - another job for an ex RTE head. It's a shame Barnamegot banned as he had some more interesting info on it.... I guess the truth was hurting some people?:rolleyes:

I'd strongly advise you to mind your own business Lenny. If you have a problem with my moderation, take it to the cmods. I don't have to put up with that kind of ****e, and I won't.

Lenny Lovett

tbh wrote: »

I'd strongly advise you to mind your own business Lenny. If you have a problem with my moderation, take it to the cmods. I don't have to put up with that kind of ****e, and I won't.

What? Where did I say anything in my post about your moderation?
I was referring to Barname's post. I obviously struck a nerve somehow..... Sorry!