Chin/Pull up advise please!

sharky86

I've been doing the stronglifts programme for a around two months now and have had great beginner gains, Hopeing to continue this until I can squat between 1.7 - 2.0 xBW or until I just can it possible to add any more weight, however I have one major stumbling block here, I cant do a single pull up or chin up! Have never done one in my life and quite frankly I'm beginning to feel like a Twat in the gym continually doing negitives and feel like i'm not making any progress with these.

Bought the chin up bar on special on irish lifting the other day for the house and am hoping someone here can point in the direction of video's or articles showing correct form and/or ways of progession for complete noob!

Any help welcome

grimloch

I was the same as you when I started off, have a look at this, it worked for me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogYazS6tkdI

El_Drago

This may help:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055868079

Sangre

Beginner's gains and a 2BW squat mentioned in the same sentence. You have lofty goals sir!

sharky86

Sangre wrote: »

Beginner's gains and a 2BW squat mentioned in the same sentence. You have lofty goals sir!

Aim for the stars you might reach the moon .
Not doing too bad so far, I think, still a noob so not really sure.

Starting stats:
Height 5'10"
Weight 79kg
Bodyfat 22.5%
never lifted before but was big in rowing for 6 years before so this helped I quess.

started with olimpic bar + 20kg on all lifts and for some lifts I added more that the recommended in the programe. I know I'll stall bad before I reach my goals and maybe have to change program but heck lets give it a shot

10 weeks later:
Weight 86kg
Squat:107.5kg 5*5 (yet to stall)
Deadlift: 115kg 2*5 (I know I should only be doing 1 work set but yet I just like this lift, keep stalling if I go above this weight, grip isnt strong enough me thinks, forearms burning like hell)
BP: 87.5kg (failed 2 so far on 90kg)
OHP: 42.5kg (this exercise looks easier that it actually is!!)
Chin Up's: 0 always 0
Bodyfat ~16% (first measurment taken in gym by instructor all other taken by myself at home so open to error.

Thanks for the links guys, really liked the video will try it out.

edit: also eating like a bloody starved elephant and runing 5k 3 time a week, HIIT after weights once a week

d'Oracle

Have you tried a mixed grip on the deadlifts?

Sangre

Nice going. I'd recommend videoing your squats, especially to check the depth of your squat if you're newish to weights.

sharky86

d'Oracle wrote: »

Have you tried a mixed grip on the deadlifts?

Honestly I have actually never heard of this before, serious noob into this stuff. quick google search might be in order here.

Is it just mixture of one hand in an overhand grip and the other in an underhand grip? or is there more to it than that?? Does it help?

Videoing the squats is a good idea actually, never tough of that ether. it keeps popping up that its useless if you dont go below knee level with your hips is that right? feel like I am but could not be 100% sure on the last few reps. thank for the idea

d'Oracle

sharky86 wrote: »

Is it just mixture of one hand in an overhand grip and the other in an underhand grip? or is there more to it than that?? Does it help?

Videoing the squats is a good idea actually, never tough of that ether. it keeps popping up that its useless if you dont go below knee level with your hips is that right? feel like I am but could not be 100% sure on the last few reps. thank for the idea

There is nothing more to it than that. Use your double overhand grip for all your warm up sets and switch to mixed for your heavy set. That way your grip strength gets a little work on the way up.

Chris89

Unusual for a rower to lack pulling strength for chins and deadlifts.

Try negative chins, step yoursef up to the top of the movement and lower yourself down as slow as you can. My da was in a similar spot to you, improving strength in other areas but couldn't get one chin. Gotbhim to do negatives and weighted negatives for a couple of weeks. And he can do sets f five now.

Try it out.

d'Oracle

Chris89 wrote: »

Try negative chins, .

OP said he already does them.

Chris89

d'Oracle wrote: »

OP said he already does them.

Oh, sorry lads. Web browsing on a phone is a bit tricky.

Op try weighted negatives if you can get your hands on a dip belt.

d'Oracle

It might not even be a question of strength.

It could just be technique or that neural Juju that people keep harping on about.

OP if you set up that door way bar and just try to knock out one or two EVERY TIME YOU PASS IT.

Just hang and try to pull your elbows down and bring your chest up to the bar. If you only get half way, reset and try again. Then proceed to the toilet or to get that sandwich or whatever it was you were after.

sharky86

Chris89 wrote: »

Unusual for a rower to lack pulling strength for chins and deadlifts.

Always sweep rowing i'm afraid. do all the suggestions folks. No hope of getting a dip belt any time soon but holding a bumbell between my knees do just as good a job.

thanks

rubadub

I am not so sure about the idea of weighted negatives when he can not even do a single chinup. I would usually keep my highest negative only reps to my 1RM, though I know some sites will say go up to 120% 1RM, but we do not know what this is in this case.

I was reading some trainer, could have been Poliquin, recommending static holds (AKA flexed arm hangs) instead of negatives. I also saw a gymnastics coach saying he got good strength gains by holding at the top for a few seconds between reps.

I am still a big fan of negatives though, but make sure they are done properly, i.e. slow & controlled, not just dropping yourself down, and hang in until the bitter end.

I would do bodyrows too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iidgi91mFWE

AntiVirus

d'Oracle wrote: »

It could just be technique or that neural Juju that people keep harping on about.

How can he have wrong technique when he can't do 1?


Like Rubadub says do body rows. You can practice using you kitchen table, lie underneath it and grab the top with your 2 hands and away you go. If/when you find doing these easy try putting you feet up on a chair, this should make it harder to do. When you can do a few sets of these you should be able to do some chin/pull ups.

Chris89

rubadub wrote: »

I am not so sure about the idea of weighted negatives when he can not even do a single chinup. I would usually keep my highest negative only reps to my 1RM, though I know some sites will say go up to 120% 1RM, but we do not know what this is in this case.

I was reading some trainer, could have been Poliquin, recommending static holds (AKA flexed arm hangs) instead of negatives. I also saw a gymnastics coach saying he got good strength gains by holding at the top for a few seconds between reps.

I am still a big fan of negatives though, but make sure they are done properly, i.e. slow & controlled, not just dropping yourself down, and hang in until the bitter end.

I would do bodyrows too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iidgi91mFWE

I would have thought it better to go through the entire range of motion than just hanging at the top?? Obvioulsy you are stressing the muscles in both cases, but how come the preferred option wouldn't be to stress them from the top to bottom of the movement?

For example I plateaud on my BEng a while back, did some weighted negatives around 120% of my 1rm (as part of my bench assistance workouts) and found it great. Surely the same would apply to the pulls, holding a bench at the top or bottom of the movement can't be as productive?

Sorry if any spelling mistakes.

d'Oracle

AntiVirus wrote: »

How can he have wrong technique when he can't do 1?

That's a bit of a strange question.
If he was attempting to pull with say his elbows flared out, he would probably not get very far, even if he had plenty of back strength.

Also if he is following stronglifts he is already doing inverted rows and (similar to negatives) they have not helped.

AntiVirus

d'Oracle wrote: »

That's a bit of a strange question.
If he was attempting to pull with say his elbows flared out, he would probably not get very far, even if he had plenty of back strength.

Any time I've watched anyone hang from a chin up bar to do chin ups I've never seen anyone try to do them by flaring their elbows out!

rubadub

Chris89 wrote: »

I would have thought it better to go through the entire range of motion than just hanging at the top??

I would too, like I said I am a big fan of negatives and also found it strange that he (whoever it was) recommended them over negatives. If doing negatives I would hold at the top for a while and lower too. Not sure if it was Poliquin now, I could only find this which I was reading recently and thought it was in that.
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/question_of_strength_april

did some weighted negatives around 120% of my 1rm (as part of my bench assistance workouts) and found it great. Surely the same would apply to the pulls,

I think the negatives will certainly help, we just have no idea what is 1RM actually is so I would stick to BW for the moment, it will also allow for more reps if sticking with BW, and get more used to the movement. He also said he already is doing negatives so the holds & rows are just something else to give a go.

He could also try bands to assist him, I have used bicycle tubes, I have also used webbing straps like stirrups with just one leg -they are unstable so you cannot get too much help from them.

Chris89

rubadub wrote: »

I would too, like I said I am a big fan of negatives and also found it strange that he (whoever it was) recommended them over negatives. If doing negatives I would hold at the top for a while and lower too. Not sure if it was Poliquin now, I could only find this which I was reading recently and thought it was in that.
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/question_of_strength_april

I think the negatives will certainly help, we just have no idea what is 1RM actually is so I would stick to BW for the moment, it will also allow for more reps if sticking with BW, and get more used to the movement. He also said he already is doing negatives so the holds & rows are just something else to give a go.

He could also try bands to assist him, I have used bicycle tubes, I have also used webbing straps like stirrups with just one leg -they are unstable so you cannot get too much help from them.

I agree, i didn't spot that he was already doing negs wen I posted first. Now though th just trying to understand the benefit of a static hold compared to a negative with a full rom.

I'll have a look at that article, thanks.