Round 11: German Grand Prix

frostie500

In one of the most controversial and incident filled seasons in recent memory Red Bull will look to put their British Grand Prix saga behind them during this weekend’s German Grand Prix from Hockenheim.

Last time out at Silverstone the Milton Keynes based team was once more the centre of attention when Mark Webber had a new front wing removed from his car and given to teammate Sebastian Vettel. With the Australian now fully aware of his place within the hierarchy of his team he proceeded to dominate the race after giving no quarter to his teammate at the first turn. Vettel ended the first lap in the pits with a puncture as Webber led the field for the rest of the day with only the safety car heading him, ironically this gave Vettel the chance to salvage his day and secure six points with a seventh place finish.

Red Bull ended the weekend with 31 points, only one point more than McLaren, from a race that the team should have delivered a crushing one-two such was their superiority. The team have consistently shot themselves in the foot this season and with the summer break ever closer the team know that the next two weekends are crucial with back to back races.

McLaren brought an extensive aerodynamic upgrade to Silverstone that ran only on Friday and while results did not meet expectations Red Bull must be aware that their opponents are exceptionally well placed should the upgrade work either at Hockenheim or the Hungaroring next weekend.

The Hockenheimring Circuit

Lewis Hamilton was the victor at the last race Hockenheim hosted the German Grand Prix. Hamilton dominated en route to winning the title in 2008 even when severely handicapped by a tactical blunder by his McLaren team. Then Toyota driver Timo Glock had a massive crash coming out of the last corner that caused a safety car to be deployed and while the majority of the field pitted Hamilton stayed out. With Nelson Piquet in second Hamilton was spared his blushes by the Brazilian holding up compatriot Felipe Massa and allowing Hamilton to make his pitstop 16 laps from the end and maintain track position before coasting to the finish to win by 5 seconds.

Hockenheim was redeveloped in 2002 with a circuit that lost the vast majority of its former character. Whereas in the past the circuit was one of the fastest and most fearsome visited during the near the current configuration is much slower and more technical. The new layout though has seen some exciting races throughout the field but generally races are dominated by one driver as was the case in 2003 when Juan Pablo Montoya would have lapped the entire field had he not slowed down for the last few laps before winning by over a minute.

Can we expect the unexpected this weekend?

This weekend’s race though promises to be very exciting with poor weather expected for practice and qualifying before cool race day temperatures. There is the possibility of a race weekend similar to Canada with drivers struggling with tyre issues. To illustrate the issue that Bridgestone expect to encounter with tyres they will bring the super soft and the hard compound tyres. If the weekend follows a similar pattern to Canada it should be expected that everyone will qualify on the softer rubber, Red Bull showed in the Montreal race that it is impossible to avoid mass tyre wear on high fuel and the hard tyre. While most races have been single stoppers this year the tyre wear and short pitlane, expected total pitstop times is 18-19 seconds, mean this race could be a two stopper for the majority of the field.

Since the redevelopment this race has not been won from outside the top three on the grid with the pole sitter winning four of the six races. Qualifying is obviously crucially important but if the tyre issue does materialise the race could be won by any of the leading drivers but the favourites will once more be the Red Bull’s, McLaren’s and Alonso.

The home crowd will have a lot of compatriots to cheer on with Germans Sebastian Vettel, Michael Schumacher, Nico Rosberg, Adrian Sutil, Timo Glock and Nico Hülkenberg all competing this weekend. Vettel will obviously be keen to move on from Silverstone but at Mercedes Schumacher will be keen just to show some progress. The seven times champion has struggled on his return to Formula 1 and has been outpaced by teammate Rosberg but a return home could invigorate Schumacher. He still remains the only German to win the world title but those days are becoming a fast fading memory with Schumi just a shadow of his former self. He has struggled all season with slow and medium speed corners and Hockenheim is filled with these so the chances of seeing a fight back are slim but with the team expecting more from recent developments he could challenge for a decent haul of points. Rosberg on the other hand will be keen to add to a promising British race when he finished in third.

Heading into this weekend the top four drivers are separated by 24 points in the title chase so theoretically any of them could leave as title leader but with 25 points for a win changes can rapidly occur and with poor weather for Friday and Saturday expected a “green” race track on Sunday could lead to an exciting race with leading drivers out of position and chasing back through the field.

Weather

BBC Schedule
Friday 23 July
Practice one: 0855-1035, BBC Red Button/online
Practice two: 1255-1435, BBC Red Button/online
Saturday 24 July
Practice three: 0955-1105, BBC Red Button/online
Qualifying: 1210-1420, BBC One/online and BBC Radio 5 live sport extra/online
Sunday 25 July
Race: 1210-1515, BBC One/online and BBC Radio 5 live/online

amacachi

Just wondering, I thought with the fairly recent redevelopment there shouldn't be a huge issue with tyres, if there is rain in the run-up to the race I'd expect the usual massive wear on the super-softs on a green track and by the half-way mark they'll run to the end.

frostie500

amacachi wrote: »

Just wondering, I thought with the fairly recent redevelopment there shouldn't be a huge issue with tyres, if there is rain in the run-up to the race I'd expect the usual massive wear on the super-softs on a green track and by the half-way mark they'll run to the end.

It all depends on the temperature, if it is cold on race day(as expected), the temperature combined with a green track could lead to issues with getting sufficient heat into the tyres to cause the chemical reactions needed to get the tyres performing at their optimum. This was the issue throughout Canada's practice sessions. In the race it was hot though so the tyres could heat up.

If its cold and green though the tyres could destroy themselves like they did in Canada practice after only a handful of laps and two stops would be necessary. By halfway through the track should be fine for the harder tyre to last til the end but if the weather plays out as expected drivers wouldn't be able to go far enough into the race to avail of one stopping, and if they do they would have to drive very conservatively and with the short pit times that could be a strategy that could easily back fire.

amacachi

frostie500 wrote: »

It all depends on the temperature, if it is cold on race day(as expected), the temperature combined with a green track could lead to issues with getting sufficient heat into the tyres to cause the chemical reactions needed to get the tyres performing at their optimum. This was the issue throughout Canada's practice sessions. In the race it was hot though so the tyres could heat up.

If its cold and green though the tyres could destroy themselves like they did in Canada practice after only a handful of laps and two stops would be necessary. By halfway through the track should be fine for the harder tyre to last til the end but if the weather plays out as expected drivers wouldn't be able to go far enough into the race to avail of one stopping, and if they do they would have to drive very conservatively and with the short pit times that could be a strategy that could easily back fire.

True, one has to wonder if the teams will be prepared for tyre issues though, a little common sense from all the teams and we should end up with a 2 stop race and a long, boring second half of the race.

EvilMonkey

Is it the first race since Canada that Bridgestone are leaving a gap between hard and soft tyres?

Start on the soft come in early(ish) and switch to hard will still be the best strategy then make the decision if you need another set by looking at the lap times what everyone else is doing etc. Even if it wont give the best time in Qualifying chances are Red Bull will be on poll anyway(Unless someone else can implement this overdrive setting they have). Compromise qualifying and count on making up places at the start and on the strategy.

Hopefully we get some differing strategy's to mix it up and get some midfield teams mixing it up with a chance of a good finish.

Myrddin

Good man Frostie! Brightened up the weekend, I completely forgot about the GP

frostie500

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Is it the first race since Canada that Bridgestone are leaving a gap between hard and soft tyres?......Hopefully we get some differing strategy's to mix it up and get some midfield teams mixing it up with a chance of a good finish.

This is the biggest tyre gap we've seen so far this year. in Canada it was super-soft and medium here it's super-soft and the harder compound.

i think with such a wide range between the two tyres-and hugely different operating windows we could and should see quite the variety in strategy this weekend!

amacachi

****ing soaking at the moment, don't imagine much running in this session. Williams saying their forecast was for drier weather as the weekend wore on, now it's for dry weather tomorrow and more rain on Sunday.

lord lucan

Some of them were all over the road. Hamilton flew into a tyre wall and the RB's were well down the order.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8848120.stm

frostie500

lord lucan wrote: »

Some of them were all over the road. Hamilton flew into a tyre wall and the RB's were well down the order.

Well Massa was really exploring the limits of the track, he spun four or five times! Hamilton's crash was quite unlucky but there's a lot of work to be done to get him back out for FP2.

Alun

frostie500 wrote: »

Hamilton's crash was quite unlucky but there's a lot of work to be done to get him back out for FP2.

Following it on the Live Timing at the mo, and he hasn't been out yet with less than 20mins to go. I guess the McLaren mecahnics won't be sleeping tonight!

EDIT: He got out just in time for 10 laps, and ended up a respectable 7th.

lord lucan

frostie500 wrote: »

Well Massa was really exploring the limits of the track, he spun four or five times!

Yeah,reminded me of his Silverstone performance a couple of years ago!:D

amacachi

For once I'd like to see a dry session for qualifying, see if they can beat the quali record since they're less than 2 seconds off in final practice.

amacachi

Jesus Schumacher's in some shape.

lord lucan

Some shunt by Liuzzi!

amacachi

Hopefully Force India will get a MASSIVE fine for that wheel flying off.

*EDIT* Not even a massive impact from the looks of the replay.

amacachi

More bitching about the slow teams, Trulli just 2.4 off Vettel, what exactly were people expecting? They're near enough where things were in the 2006 GP, everyone seems to forget the last two years of small gaps in performance being the exception to the rule.

dor83

amacachi wrote: »

More bitching about the slow teams, Trulli just 2.4 off Vettel, what exactly were people expecting? They're near enough where things were in the 2006 GP, everyone seems to forget the last two years of small gaps in performance being the exception to the rule.

They seem to forget that the top teams are developing their cars as well, they are expecting the new teams to close on the established teams.

Ghost Train

Ferrari looking strong

Williams looking like they might make top ten too

lord lucan

Feck you Hulkenberg!:(

BoardsRanger

lord lucan wrote: »

Feck you Hulkenberg!:(

Dont know if its such a bad thing- i dont think mercedes will advance too much in quali 3 and seeing as Michael is outside the top 10 - he can now choose what tyre he wishes to start to race on- and they will be new.

Ghost Train

At least Schumacher can choose what tyre he'll start on :pac:

A bit of rain in Q3 might be interesting

De Hipster

So close for Michael in Q2, had high hopes for him this weekend, rain for the race is the only thing left to wish for!

amacachi

Anyone else surprised how little advertising there is on circuit compared to other tracks?

Pity to see Schumi out, can't see Rosberg doing much in the race tomorrow though barring rain.

Ghost Train

Good to see Ferrari up there, wonder is it just the track conditions suiting them

amacachi

2 bastard thousandths of a second.

Ghost Train

amacachi wrote: »

2 bastard thousandths of a second.

great to have it so close

BoardsRanger

Will be some first few laps tomorrow!! Should be great!

lord lucan

Looking forward to lights out tomorrow,could be a cracking first lap.

hotwhiskey

Vettel and that finger!!!!!!!!!!

Myrddin

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Dont know if its such a bad thing- i dont think mercedes will advance too much in quali 3 and seeing as Michael is outside the top 10 - he can now choose what tyre he wishes to start to race on- and they will be new.

+1

He would have finished 10th anyway, so he's saved a set of options & gets to choose the starting tyre. Looks as if Mercedes have effectively consigned this season to the bin development wise, the car is poor (with Rosberg bearly making Q3). Hopefully next year they should be more competetive.

amacachi wrote: »

2 bastard thousandths of a second.

Ghost Train wrote: »

great to have it so close

Yeah, but those 2 thousandths of a second would have spared me that finger. Jesus I hate that finger.

amacachi

Great to have it so close, but what we need this weekend is a Ferrari 1-2. :pac:

vectra

I am expecting a very close race..Hope Hamilton gets into a battle with Alonso early in the race

Myrddin

hotwhiskey wrote: »

Vettel and that finger!!!!!!!!!!

Thank God! I thought it was just me...

Ferrari have seriously improved this weekend, would love to see Massa doing well, to think two seasons ago he was one point away from being world champion. I don't like Alonso, but he drove brilliantly today, really was at the limit at times.

Button seemed a bit bemused that Vettel had 7/10ths over him, believing he got all he could from the Merc. The blown diffuser seems to be working for them now, but still leaves them way off the pace. Should be a great race tomorrow, bit of weather would really shake it up.

EvilMonkey

Ferrari better convert this into a decent result tomorrow. They have been threatening to put in a good performance for the last few races. Hopefully no mistakes, safety cars or penalties!

lord lucan

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Ferrari better convert this into a decent result tomorrow. They have been threatening to put in a good performance for the last few races. Hopefully no mistakes, safety cars or penalties!

What's the bets Alonso gets done for Pit Lane speeding or something tomorrow!:pac:

Mike Litoris

Hehe yeah I reckon Ferrari will fuk it up again tomorrow. I just hope Vettle doesn't swan off into the distance and we're given a good fight. There are 2 really good overtaking spots so the opening laps should be good.

EvilMonkey

lord lucan wrote: »

What's the bets Alonso gets done for Pit Lane speeding or something tomorrow!:pac:

I would say di Montezemolo and Alonsos rage would send Whiting and the Fia into orbit. The cry of shame from the tifosi would be heard world wide!

Vegeta

hotwhiskey wrote: »

Vettel and that finger!!!!!!!!!!

Most annoying celebration ever

frostie500

Vegeta wrote: »

Most annoying celebration ever

Its not actually Vettel that annoys me most though...its his mechanic that's always on the telly doing it that pisses me off!

EvilMonkey

Vegeta wrote: »

Most annoying celebration ever

Button on the radio "Monaco baby".

Vettels finger is waving is mild compared to Lorenzo in motogp with his LorenzoLand flag.

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Button on the radio "Monaco baby".

You just plain don't like Button huh? :pac:

Hope I'm in a fit state to see the Grand Prix live tomorrow, drinking did not work out well tonight.

Myrddin

frostie500 wrote: »

Its not actually Vettel that annoys me most though...its his mechanic that's always on the telly doing it that pisses me off!

That is so ridiculous looking. Win the race & do it, but proclaiming to be the number 1 before the race has even started? Jesus lads. If he wins today at his home GP its going to be horrific.

Button can be cheesy at times (We are the champions/Monaco baby etc), but somehow it doesn't come across as having that smug superiority thing, that that finger does.

Does anyone get the impression Horner really dislikes Eddie Jordan, & I mean REALLY dislikes him? He made another comment about Eddies' clothes yesterday, & got all flushed after saying it...

amacachi

Can't see this being much of a race once we get a few laps in, once they get through the soft tyres I'd be surprised if one stop for hards isn't going to be enough.

EDIT: Anyone able to find the driver tracker they mentioned on the BBC website?

lord lucan

Great start!!:D

amacachi

Hope there's no silly talk of penalties for running wide at the start. Great stuff from the Ferraris, poor start for Button.

IvySlayer

amacachi wrote: »

Can't see this being much of a race once we get a few laps in, once they get through the soft tyres I'd be surprised if one stop for hards isn't going to be enough.

EDIT: Anyone able to find the driver tracker they mentioned on the BBC website?

UK peeps only.

amacachi

Feckin BBC. Both McLarens being very inconsistent.

amacachi

Said it before and I'll say it again, the tyres are way too good this season.

Ghost Train

amacachi wrote: »

Can't see this being much of a race once we get a few laps in, once they get through the soft tyres I'd be surprised if one stop for hards isn't going to be enough.

EDIT: Anyone able to find the driver tracker they mentioned on the BBC website?

It is on the interactive red button channel

interesting race with the order at the moment

Ghost Train

wonder what button will do