Help me buy a Euro style workstand

chakattack

I don't want to buy a traditional clamp-style stand as my frame and seatpost are carbon and I don't want to mess about with changing the carbon post for an aluminium one just to do some minor adjustments.

The only drawback of this design seems to be access to underside for running cables or cleaning.

I think I saw one that pivots vertically to get at the underside aswell as spinning 360 degrees to the get to either side of the bike on the TG4 tour coverage? I can't see anything like that here. Maybe the mechanic was just holding the bike in the air??

This is the line-up so I'm wondering if anyone has experience of these to help me decide (other than price). I'm leaning towards the tacx. I couldn't care less about weight or portability.

Elite

Tacx

Park Tools

Lumen

Why would you need to change out the seatpost?

DirkVoodoo

In my opinion, while those stands are very nice, particularly the park tool one, they are probably overkill for the home mechanic.

I wrap a rag around my top tube and clamp it there, don't use loads of pressure but if the bike is centred it's plenty stable and doesn't scratch the clearcoat.

TinyExplosions

Lumen wrote: »

Why would you need to change out the seatpost?

I presume he doesn't want to clamp the bike by the carbon seatpost

TinyExplosions

I like the ones Saxobank have with the yoke to allow you to rotate the chain with no rear wheel in... very swish

Lumen

TinyExplosions wrote: »

I presume he doesn't want to clamp the bike by the carbon seatpost

If I was that worried about it I definitely wouldn't sit on it.

Idleater

I have the park one and I recommend it. Overkill for home use possibly but it was a gift to me so who am I to complain.

good points: the swivel nature means it is very easy to spin the bike around to work on and clean different sides / parts.
It is very neat space wise, even when working on it, and the construction is very solid. Easy to put together, use and store.

could be better:
The skewer grip is very good, but I'm not 100% sure on the wrap around band at the BB. Sometimes it gets in the way.
Also you do have to remove at least one wheel - which I don't mind as I generally remove both when working/cleaning, but it may be a bit awkward if you want to adjust rear gears, and front brakes or some such combination.

07Lapierre

Don't see what the problem is. There's no weight on the bike when its in a stand, so there should be no problem with the carbon seat post.

I have one of these cheap as chips and perfectly adequate for light maintenance and cleaning.

austinbyrne21

07Lapierre wrote: »

...I have one of these cheap as chips and perfectly adequate for light maintenance and cleaning.

Have one of these myself, bought from a Boardsie. Excellent stand. Mind you, I've only a peasant;) aluminium seat post to worry about. More sturdy than I would've thought from seeing the pictures of it.

abcdggs

I've been working in a bike shop for the past couple of weeks and have found any stand that closes in the bb area a pain in the ass in terms of accessing cable routing, also any stand that requires removing wheels is also annoying. adjusting everything on a bike then having to remove it from the stand and re attach a wheel to adjust gears/brakes and so on is a just a pain. I'd have to say i agree with those saying the clamp should be fine. the only time the clamp would need to be overly tight would be for high torque adjustments ie bb or crank bolts but these wouldn't be regular things.
Just my 2c

ednwireland

07Lapierre wrote: »

Don't see what the problem is. There's no weight on the bike when its in a stand, so there should be no problem with the carbon seat post.

I have one of these cheap as chips and perfectly adequate for light maintenance and cleaning.

the tubes arent designed for compression maybe ? certainly wouldnt clamp my carbon frame

i have one like this (but a different brand had it for decades

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=3978

doozerie

Re clamping carbon, if you have a workstand with a strong clamp, then there is a significant risk of crushing a carbon tube or seatpost. Some bike shops can be a bit casual about that risk, apparently, but I certainly would not risk gripping any carbon tubes/seatposts tightly in the strong clamp on my worskstand.

Park Tool's latest clamp has a threaded rod/bolt through it to allow you to adjust the tension on the clamp but even for this clamp they advice against using it to grip anything carbon.

abcdggs

ednwireland wrote: »

the tubes arent designed for compression maybe ? certainly wouldnt clamp my carbon frame

i have one like this (but a different brand had it for decades

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=3978

Personally have found the clamp on this very unstable, I'd be more worried about damaging my carbon frame with this than one with one clamp

Lumen

doozerie wrote: »

Re clamping carbon, if you have a workstand with a strong clamp, then there is a significant risk of crushing a carbon tube or seatpost.

There is no more risk than from overtightening a front mech clamp or anything else really. Basic mechanical sympathy - apply force until frame doesn't slip, then stop.

I currently have the "cheapest" Park one which clamps seatpost, seat tube or toptube, and have never felt at any risk of hurting the frame. I wouldn't apply a lot of torque whilst using the stand, but then TBH I mostly use it for cleaning and tweaking - a simple crank swap would be done on the floor.

I used to be afraid of carbon fibre until I fitted my first fork crown race. The amount of brute violence that a carbon frame can withstand is quite impressive.

That's not to say I would like a nicer stand, but I couldn't justify spending over 200 squids on something to hold the bike off the floor.

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

There is no more risk than from overtightening a front mech clamp or anything else really. Basic mechanical sympathy - apply force until frame doesn't slip, then stop.

Agreed, the workstand poses no more risk than front mech clamps, seat collars, etc., but while the clamping pressure of threaded bolts can be finely adjusted some (a lot?) of the clamps on workstands are not so adjustable. The clamp on my 12-yr old Park Tool workstand, for example, can be set for one of only 3 or 4 different dimensions and it clamps tightly to the selected setting (the clamp lever closes fully only at the currently selected setting). Anything even slightly larger than the selected dimension is at risk of being crushed by that clamp.

I thought the new Park Tool clamp head would solve that problem by allowing you to adjust the jaw opening finely to whatever diameter tube you like, but even they don't trust that people will adjust it accurately in practice hence their disclaimer.

So yes, a clamp can work but you need to have your wits about you when using it to avoid a trip to the carbon fibre hospital.

07Lapierre

ednwireland wrote: »

the tubes arent designed for compression maybe ? certainly wouldnt clamp my carbon frame

i have one like this (but a different brand had it for decades

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=3978

I wouldn't clamp my carbon frame either, but only to avoid scratches. The clamp doesn't have to be that tight. Once the frame doesn't move, its tight enough. Any fame, regardless of material could be damaged/scratched if the clamp was too tight.

DirkVoodoo

Thus the rag.

Underclamping is probably more likely to cause scratching, if the frame is free to move around.

Lumen

doozerie wrote: »

The clamp on my 12-yr old Park Tool workstand, for example, can be set for one of only 3 or 4 different dimensions and it clamps tightly to the selected setting (the clamp lever closes fully only at the currently selected setting). Anything even slightly larger than the selected dimension is at risk of being crushed by that clamp.

Ah, that's not good.

doozerie wrote: »

I thought the new Park Tool clamp head would solve that problem by allowing you to adjust the jaw opening finely to whatever diameter tube you like

It does. The clamp has thick squishy rubber coating. It's fairly idiot proof.

doozerie wrote: »

...but even they don't trust that people will adjust it accurately in practice hence their disclaimer.

...there's always a better idiot.

07Lapierre

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Thus the rag.

Underclamping is probably more likely to cause scratching, if the frame is free to move around.

Agreed, which is why i always clamp the seatpost, not the frame. no need for a rag as the clamp on my stand has pretty good rubber covers.

cdaly_

I'm using an X-Tools prep stand. BB rests on a cup and the down tube rests on the upper bar of the stand. A clamp stops the down tube lifting off. Folds up nice and small and takes about 30-sec to set up.

Only GBP46 at the mo...

ednwireland wrote: »

the tubes arent designed for compression maybe ? certainly wouldnt clamp my carbon frame

i have one like this (but a different brand had it for decades

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=3978

edit: Same as that one only cheaper...

doozerie

Actually, I've just checked the Park Tool website again for info on their latest and greatest clamp, and my memory was failing me earlier because the disclaimer that I referred to above is in reality a lot less dramatic than I remembered. In fact, it's quite wishy washy (from the instruction manual for the 100-*D range of clamps):

Some bike manufacturers recommend not clamping thin-walled or carbon fiber frames. Consult manufacturer for suggested clamping location.

And what's more the photos on the page show it being used on a couple of carbon aero seatposts too by the looks of things, so all in all it does look like a safe bet for carbon. Funnily enough it's not even their most expensive clamp either, from a quick price search, but being Park it's certainly not cheap either and it still needs a stand to fit it to. Hmm, must check whether my old stand is compatible.

Lumen

I have the Park PCS-10. A lot of money for a couple of scaffold tubes and a clamp, but it's survived a winter outside with no ill effects.

Not sure I'd get it again given the alternatives though.

chakattack

cdaly_ wrote: »

I'm using an X-Tools prep stand. BB rests on a cup and the down tube rests on the upper bar of the stand. A clamp stops the down tube lifting off. Folds up nice and small and takes about 30-sec to set up.

Only GBP46 at the mo...




edit: Same as that one only cheaper...

That's the stand I have and it's great but doesn't fit my current bike.....used for washing, building and tweaking. Anyone want to buy a used one?

I'm still against the clamping carbon idea...even though it could well be irrational carbon paranoia (still coming to terms with high speed descents on a lump of fancy plastic). Think I'll check out whatever Saxo are using. Not going to go for Park as I think they just charge extra for the name.

Thanks everyone

amused2death

Lumen wrote: »

There is no more risk than from overtightening a front mech clamp or anything else really. Basic mechanical sympathy - apply force until frame doesn't slip, then stop.

I have to agree with the last comment above regarding clamping of a carbon frame. This is my work stand. When I am working on my carbon frame I simply hang it from the cross bar and twist the clamp till it eliminates movement of the frame. The clamp has rubber inserts to ensure a safe hold without causing damage. Keep in mind many riders in the tour sit on the cross bar when decending! Carbon frames can be clamped safely once rubber buffers are used and the level of force applied is just enough to prevent rattling or movement.