Liam O'Neill's comments

hardybuck

I wonder if anyone read Liam O'Neill's comments today regarding pitch invasions and presentations of trophies http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=132540. Don't forget this is the man who implemented and supported the experimental yellow card sending off scandal in 2009, long past the time when it became a joke.

To quote him, "Hanging around doing presentations is crazy. Do we need the person who's given the cup to spend five minutes speaking? No. How many speeches of people presented with cups can you remember over the years? None, so that speaks for itself, doesn't it?"

I think this is a huge insult to pretty much every captain that has lifted a trophy over the years. In short memory I can remember Anthony Daly in 1995, Martin Storey in 1996, Dara Ó Cinnéide in 2004 and Peter Canavan in 2003 to name a short few.

As we saw in the Munster final last Sat, the Connaught final on Sunday, the various county grounds that let kids on at half time and countless other finals, the pitch invasion and speech are very special, and to return to the totally dead spectacle of those little podiums in centre field would be a total let down.

It seems that since the progressive and liberal Sean Kelly, GAA officials are determined to reclaim control and return to a more conservative control structure with the appointment of Nicky Brennan, Christy Cooney and now most likely O'Neill.

deisedevil

Wouldn't agree with him at all. I want it to stay as it is, as do many others, and last Saturday night under the lights and rain in Semple to be on the field for Molumphy lifiting that trophy was something I will never forget. Could barely hear the speech though because the sound system was crap.

aidan24326

hardybuck wrote: »

ITo quote him, "Hanging around doing presentations is crazy. Do we need the person who's given the cup to spend five minutes speaking? No. How many speeches of people presented with cups can you remember over the years? None, so that speaks for itself, doesn't it?"

I'd have no respect for him for saying that. No true GAA man would say that.

The cup presentation has given us some of the most lasting memories, so he's way off there. Joe Connolly's speech still puts the hairs standing on the back of my neck, as does Anthony Daly's. And what about Shefflin and James McGarry's son a few years ago? Magic stuff.
Then you have Armagh in 2002, Clare's football win in 92, Leitrim in 94, even Roscommon last Sunday. It's a huge part of it, and sure if the captain says a few words what harm? Hasn't he earned the right? The speeches are generally short enough anyway and don't go on for more than a few minutes.

adrian522

aidan24326 wrote: »

I'd have no respect for him for saying that. No true GAA man would say that.

The cup presentation has given us some of the most lasting memories, so he's way off there. Joe Connolly's speech still puts the hairs standing on the back of my neck, as does Anthony Daly's. And what about Shefflin and James McGarry's son a few years ago? Magic stuff.
Then you have Armagh in 2002, Clare's football win in 92, Leitrim in 94, even Roscommon last Sunday. It's a huge part of it, and sure if the captain says a few words what harm? Hasn't he earned the right? The speeches are generally short enough anyway and don't go on for more than a few minutes.

I'm sure he can feck off into the corporate hospitality section if he doesn't want to listen to the speeches of the guys who've been training hard all year. I know the fans want to hear what is being said.

Perhaps that's what he has been doing which may explain why he cant remember any speeches.

hardybuck

Its just another example of people who have spent their lives as officials, many of whom played little, if any.

They see themselves as the sources of power, the most important people in the association, and they want to keep it that way. I get the impression that they see players and supporters as a nuisance.

homerjay2005

unfortunately, due to the actions of a few louth people, the way the GAA is run may change for ever.

as for o neill, i hope he doesnt get the presidents role, he seems a bit of an ape to be honest.

munsterrugby09

im getting quite sick of this muck,pitch invasions are great,the scences in thurles and mchale park are memories people willl talk about in 20 or 30 yrs,i was never lucky enough to be old enough to be at the 95 and 97 all ireland but when our u21s won in croker last year it made up for it somebit,the scenes after that agme will stay with me forever.why the problem?its unsafe?no its not,i have not heard of anbody getting seriously injured in a pitch invasion.stop this now stop trying to ruin our association.

PatsytheNazi

homerjay2005 wrote: »

unfortunately, due to the actions of a few louth people, the way the GAA is run may change for ever.

as for o neill, i hope he doesnt get the presidents role, he seems a bit of an ape to be honest.

That's the excuse they were looking for. However I do believe behind the scenes regarding pitch invasions, that is an issue to do with the insurance companies who don't want it more than the GAA itself. BTW, Rugby also had pitch invasions, anyone remember Ollie Campbell and co. been carried off in 1983 Triple Crown ? I'm sure school boy Rugby/ Leinester Senior cup still has them ?

hardybuck

Maybe someone in the legal profession or people who are familiar with insurance law will see this and comment, but could you implement a clause that when you buy a ticket, you forfeit your right to claim for damages once you encroach onto the pitch?

I think this would be a fair compromise between both sides of the argument.

keane2097

This was done in some depth recently here.

It's an extremely annoying subject to debate tbh, you have to deal with peoples' Leaving Cert grasp of statistics and a nausiating idea that anything dangerous should be denied to people because they can't be trusted to make up their own minds about it.

WallyGUFC

This guy hasn't a clue. Pitch invasions are tradition...when the Aussies came over for the International Rules they were wondering what the feck was going on. It's part and parcel of GAA, he can flip off and start bombarding the Lacrosse association with new petty, foolish rules. We don't need them!

hardybuck

The central points of the debate for me are

1. Lack of respect from officials towards players

2. Lack of respect from officials towards the supporters and general GAA community

3. The old boys club that the officials seem to hold. It appears that many of these guys are quite removed from the general members. It seems that it is quite difficult to rise to power unless you get in to it quite young and spend 20 years climbing the ranks kissing ass and following protocol.

Every person here knows that there are auld lads from their clubs sent there who haven't a clue what the issues are for most GAA people, and don't care either. They will say, "sure nobody else is interested". However, what self respecting young person wants to start going to County Board meetings on Wednesday nights listening to lads who can't finish a sentence without taking a couple of breaks to catch their breath.

If O'Neill wants radical changes to rules etc, here is where he should start the reform.

buckwheat

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

That's the excuse they were looking for. However I do believe behind the scenes regarding pitch invasions, that is an issue to do with the insurance companies who don't want it more than the GAA itself. BTW, Rugby also had pitch invasions, anyone remember Ollie Campbell and co. been carried off in 1983 Triple Crown ? I'm sure school boy Rugby/ Leinester Senior cup still has them ?

WTF is the story with your username?? Seriously why would anyone want to call themselves a Nazi, even jokingly?:mad:

Clemon

O'Neill can **** right off

deisedevil

buckwheat wrote: »

WTF is the story with your username?? Seriously why would anyone want to call themselves a Nazi, even jokingly?:mad:

You should PM him about it then I reckon rather than bring it up on an unrelated thread.

adrian522

Clemon wrote: »

O'Neill can **** right off

Good point, well made

Browney7

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

That's the excuse they were looking for. However I do believe behind the scenes regarding pitch invasions, that is an issue to do with the insurance companies who don't want it more than the GAA itself. BTW, Rugby also had pitch invasions, anyone remember Ollie Campbell and co. been carried off in 1983 Triple Crown ? I'm sure school boy Rugby/ Leinester Senior cup still has them ?

To a certain extent I think I'm a bit with O'Neill on this one.

Remember when Munster won the H cup after losing 2 finals the joy at the final whistle was immense with 60000 odd men and women in red that day and there was no desire to burst onto the pitch. When Ireland won only their second grand slam ever 2 years ago. What about when United won the Euro cup in 99? All very emotional events wouldn't you agree and no one on the field except the players and management to take in the occasion for themselves.

Players can't commiserate or celebrate with one another when an army of 10000 fans are running at them. What about the losing players who might just want to throw themselves to the ground in anguish. There are arguments for both sides but I don't buy the tradition argument. Sure twas tradition years ago to drive home pissed from the pub or not bothering to wear seatbelts. Sometimes change isn't a bad thing.

Regarding the Speech. Sometimes they can drag on and be a pain in the ar$e but sometimes they can be great too like Connollys in 1980 Daly's in 1995 and McGeeneys.

munsterrugby09

the kilkenny speeches are defintley dragging on:D

Aidric

In all fairness most speeches are forgettable and would fit neatly into each other year on year.

WesternZulu

I see where the GAA are coming from but when i think of Mayo winning an All-Ireland (i know, :rolleyes:) is out on the pitch with all the rest of the supporters in a sea of green and red.
I think it takes away from the experience if it is banned.

Ok there is a chance of getting injured or somebody dying.

But there is a chance that somebody could get seriously injured or die crossing the road...does that mean we should ban that too.

RGS

While pitch invasions are great for the majority who enjoy them they are highly dangerous and uncontrollable.

People have been injured and compensated as a result of these invasions and insurance costs for the GAA will continue to rise and and its possible no cover will be provided for injuries arising from pitch invasions leaving the GAA to fund the claims from current income.

Maybe when some young child is trampled and killed people will finally see sense.

Magi11

hardybuck wrote: »

Maybe someone in the legal profession or people who are familiar with insurance law will see this and comment, but could you implement a clause that when you buy a ticket, you forfeit your right to claim for damages once you encroach onto the pitch?

I think this would be a fair compromise between both sides of the argument.

Hardybuck; I've often wondered why this doesn't happen. I think at the minute there are too many people who see the GAA as a meal ticket. This must be because the GAA must be paying out claims without fighting them. A friend of mine is a lawyer for the US army. He told me the in the mid 1990's, they decided to fight all claims for 5 years.the result of this was that claims dropped by 90%, when people saw that it just wasn't as easy as used to be.
John O'Mahony was talking last week that his 2 greatest memories were the hour on the pitch after the 94 Leitrim win in Connacht and the 98 All Ireland for Galway.
I also actually think that the GAA stumbled on the answer last year when it took the crowd a few minutes to break through the stewards. This gave the players a few minutes to themselves, gave them a chance to talk to the losing team and got both sets of players safely cordoned away before the crowd got to them. But the bottom line should be that you enter at your own risk and CCTV cameras should be able to pinpoint any "incidents" and used as evidence by Croke Park.

megadodge

RGS wrote: »

While pitch invasions are great for the majority who enjoy them they are highly dangerous and uncontrollable.

People have been injured and compensated as a result of these invasions and insurance costs for the GAA will continue to rise and and its possible no cover will be provided for injuries arising from pitch invasions leaving the GAA to fund the claims from current income.

Maybe when some young child is trampled and killed people will finally see sense.

NO THEY'RE NOT !!!

Have you ever been in one?

I have been in plenty (last Sunday in Castlebar being the latest) and have yet to see any 'highly dangerous' situation evolve. The only potential one I can remember was when the stewards were trying to stop the Armagh supporters in 2002, it was getting very crowded up front because the could NOT get onto the pitch. Thankfully someone saw sense and I got to witness the happiest scenes I have ever seen in my life anywhere.

I agree with the previous posters who said that if the GAA is worried about insurance claims just put a waiver on the ticket that if you invade the pitch you are exempt from claiming.

adrian522

My problem with this whole argument is this....

Why are they only enforcing this in Croke park on all ireland final day?
If you want to change the cuture of pitch invasions, you need to start at the bottom up not from the top down. This means preventing the pitch invasions after last weekends Muster Hurling and Connacht football finals. How is Christy Cooney supposed to be taken seriously when he is there grinning ear to ear after the Munster final yet come September he will be banging on about on pitch presentations and Healtyh and safety.

Are pitch invasions only dangerous at Croke park? Or is it more to do with the power of Peter McKenna.

Perhaps the real dangerous scenario is created when stewards are trying to prevent supporters coming onto the pitch and a crush starts to develop at the bottom of Hill 16.

keane2097

Steep concrete steps are so obviously a more dangerous place for huge crowds of people than a large expanse of grass.

SeaFields

is the practice of allowing kids on to pitches at half time done away with this year?

I thought it was great to see last season - all the kids getting to go for a puck around on the pitch for a few minutes.

As for Croke Park it wont succeed. You would need a serious amount of stewards to prevent a pitch invasion and even then at the final whistle hearts will rule heads.

toxicity234

Clemon wrote: »

O'Neill can **** right off

Could agree more

aidan24326

hardybuck wrote: »

Maybe someone in the legal profession or people who are familiar with insurance law will see this and comment, but could you implement a clause that when you buy a ticket, you forfeit your right to claim for damages once you encroach onto the pitch?

I think this would be a fair compromise between both sides of the argument.

Excellent idea. And probably implementable aswell.

WesternZulu wrote: »

I see where the GAA are coming from but when i think of Mayo winning an All-Ireland (i know, :rolleyes:) is out on the pitch with all the rest of the supporters in a sea of green and red.
I think it takes away from the experience if it is banned.

Ok there is a chance of getting injured or somebody dying.

But there is a chance that somebody could get seriously injured or die crossing the road...does that mean we should ban that too.

In a century and more of people coming onto the pitch after games there has scarcely been an injury or an incident worth talking about. I'm sure more people have dropped dead up in the stands than have ever been injured on the pitch after a game.

Unfortunatley a few drunken idiots from Louth have changed the way this is looked at. Now there's a genuine argument to be made in terms of safety, and it's one that doesn't have much of a comeback. I still think O'Neill is an idiot though, and he does sound like one of those suited corporate types that more than likely has no connection with the ordinary grassroots of the GAA, the people who actually DO run it, as opposed to those who think they do.

deisedevil

aidan24326 wrote: »

Unfortunatley a few drunken idiots from Louth have changed the way this is looked at. Now there's a genuine argument to be made in terms of safety, and it's one that doesn't have much of a comeback. I still think O'Neill is an idiot though, and he does sound like one of those suited corporate types that more than likely has no connection with the ordinary grassroots of the GAA, the people who actually DO run it, as opposed to those who think they do.

What I can't understand is why no one is laying any of the blame at the feet of the Gardai. If they had been ready as soon as the match finished and at least 5 of them surrounded the ref and escorted him straight off the pitch there wouldn't have been this sort of problem.
A fan got to the ref first, then a few more, then a garda came in, more fans surrounded him and then a second garda eventually came in and started walking off with him while these fans were abusing him and pushing him about. That's what was wrong, no proper escort off the pitch for the ref.

The Gardai want to be payed by the GAA for their services going forward, well if they do they will need to put in a better effort at least.
Of course there should never have to be a need to do this but on the very odd occasion you will get fans confronting a ref and as long as there's a decent Garda presence there won't be a problem.

aDeener

95% of speeches are cringeworthy at best. i loathe listeneing to them.

of course there are a few gems such as connoly and dara o'cinneide.

rebel girl 15

adrian522 wrote: »

My problem with this whole argument is this....

Why are they only enforcing this in Croke park on all ireland final day?
If you want to change the cuture of pitch invasions, you need to start at the bottom up not from the top down. This means preventing the pitch invasions after last weekends Muster Hurling and Connacht football finals. How is Christy Cooney supposed to be taken seriously when he is there grinning ear to ear after the Munster final yet come September he will be banging on about on pitch presentations and Healtyh and safety.

Are pitch invasions only dangerous at Croke park? Or is it more to do with the power of Peter McKenna.

Perhaps the real dangerous scenario is created when stewards are trying to prevent supporters coming onto the pitch and a crush starts to develop at the bottom of Hill 16.

This will come in in all grounds, not just Croke Park. They are looking at legislation and to put up barriers or not sell the A row of seats in Croke Park at the moment. There are less paid stewards this year than previous years, mostly voluntary stewards now. The ""education" route they tried going down is clearly not working, so that is what they are looking at now

SeaFields wrote: »

is the practice of allowing kids on to pitches at half time done away with this year?

I thought it was great to see last season - all the kids getting to go for a puck around on the pitch for a few minutes.

Yep, in most counties. I know in Cork it was forced through without a vote. Instead they are bringing in the half time games between two clubs. I agree with it, the subs couldn't puck any ball for fear of the kids - leave them in for a bit afterwards maybe but not at half time

Magi11

Had to laugh at the announcement that there would be no pitch invasion at the ulster final! The 1985 Monaghan team were being honoured at half time and if Monaghan had won it would have taken about 40 stewards to contain those lads alone.
The GAA are going to use the Sludden incident to ban pitch invasions, but it's a red herring. What happened to Sludden is totally unacceptable but it has nothing to do with the fans of the winning team invading the pitch at the end of a final. If it did then why didn't anyone bemoan the Meath fans for doing just that on the day?
The only solace I have is knowing that if you tell an Irish person that they can't do something then they are going to try the more harder to do it.

munsterrugby09

keep the invasions up lads....its part of our history.

rebel girl 15

Magi11 wrote: »

Had to laugh at the announcement that there would be no pitch invasion at the ulster final! The 1985 Monaghan team were being honoured at half time and if Monaghan had won it would have taken about 40 stewards to contain those lads alone.
The GAA are going to use the Sludden incident to ban pitch invasions, but it's a red herring. What happened to Sludden is totally unacceptable but it has nothing to do with the fans of the winning team invading the pitch at the end of a final. If it did then why didn't anyone bemoan the Meath fans for doing just that on the day?
The only solace I have is knowing that if you tell an Irish person that they can't do something then they are going to try the more harder to do it.

Its been coming for a while now, not just because of the Sludden incident - I can see it being portrayed as being in direct response to that incident in the media, but it is not.

Magi11

munsterrugby09 wrote: »

keep the invasions up lads....its part of our history.

That's precisely it!! Someone mentioned earlier about the Heineken Cup and Grand Slam wins. But both of those took place in Wales and we are good at observing local sensibilities when we're supporting our teams/country on foreign soil. But this is our house so we should do what is normal for us.

If you tell the fans that they will be allowed on the pitch in say 8 minutes, have the 2 screens on a countdown clock that flashes every 10 seconds saying you are entering at you own risk. Then when the 8 minutes are up you phase the people onto the pitch.
Bottom line lads, if by some miracle Monaghan win this years football, I'm on the pitch and so is everyone I know and no one is stopping me.

adrian522

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

This will come in in all grounds, not just Croke Park. They are looking at legislation and to put up barriers or not sell the A row of seats in Croke Park at the moment. There are less paid stewards this year than previous years, mostly voluntary stewards now. The ""education" route they tried going down is clearly not working, so that is what they are looking at now

This is obviously not the case given the scenes after the provincial finals last weekend, was any attempt made to prevent these pitch invasions? Was there any attempt at presentations on the pitch?

Yet that is exactly what is proposed for this years all Ireland finals, which is idiotic as I've said previously as you have to start at the club and provincial games not at the most emotionally charged game of the year.

If Waterford or Tipp for example were top beat Kilkenny in September what would be more dangerous, letting the fans on the pitch to celebrate a famous victory or use the thuggish methods we've seen in recent years to prevent access resulting in a crush and confrontations with stewards?

also letting kids on for a puc around at half time is wonderful and should be encouraged as it keeps kids interested in the games and provides great half time entertainment, at parnell park anyway....

rebel girl 15

adrian522 wrote: »

also letting kids on for a puc around at half time is wonderful and should be encouraged as it keeps kids interested in the games and provides great half time entertainment, at parnell park anyway....

Leave them on after the game, but not at half time if subs are trying to have a puck around. It really isn't that wonderful for those guys. Have a mini game on at half time and then leave the kids on after the game to have a puck around - same system is done in Australia with the Aussie Rules, and works very well. Its up to each Coiste Oiliunia to implement the teams, not that hard to get it sorted in fairness - if it can be done in Cork, it can be done anywhere!

df1985

if Kildare win the all ireland in my lifetime, no steward, guard, orange mesh fence, is going to keep me off the pitch!

Pete_Cavan

Magi11 wrote: »

If you tell the fans that they will be allowed on the pitch in say 8 minutes, have the 2 screens on a countdown clock that flashes every 10 seconds saying you are entering at you own risk. Then when the 8 minutes are up you phase the people onto the pitch.
Bottom line lads, if by some miracle Monaghan win this years football, I'm on the pitch and so is everyone I know and no one is stopping me.

If I was playing in a big final (not that I ever will be, cant make the Cavan team and even if I did, we wont get to an All Ireland final) but the main thing I dont like about pitch invasions is that players are surrounded by swarms of people within seconds of the final whistle. Personally I think players should have time to shake the hand of their opponent and congratulate the team mates they have been training hard with for the last year, then celebrate with the fans. Not sure if it would work though, holding the fans back for a few minutes would for a few minutes would either cause a crush at the bottom or would people wait patiently knowing they will get on.

adrian522 wrote: »

This is obviously not the case given the scenes after the provincial finals last weekend, was any attempt made to prevent these pitch invasions? Was there any attempt at presentations on the pitch?

Come on, you must remember the "Plan B" incident last year.

hardybuck

Plan B. Two of the sweetest words to be heard within Croke Park.

adrian522

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Come on, you must remember the "Plan B" incident last year.

I do, but that was the all ireland, why were they not doing it all year?

munsterrugby09

plan b was well planned

Carawaystick

df1985 wrote: »

if Kildare win the all ireland in my lifetime, no steward, guard, orange mesh fence, is going to keep me off the pitch!

same if Wickla win even Leinster.



The biggest thing wrong with the Sludden incident was the GAA and Gardaí didn't have the louth boyos convicted on Monday Morning and their photos in papers on Tuesday

Second all that sh1te about goal line technology is arseboxing. The umpires saw it clearly was a free out. They were not strong enough to refuse to lift the green flag and either let the ref do it or stand their ground.
In all sports where the ref's decision is final, a ref can make an incorrect decision, and the decision cannot be overruled. a ref could ignore video technology the same as ref's ignore their helper officials at matches now.

munsterrugby09

totaly agree