A few more Celtic Tiger clubs go into receivership!!

Luckycharm

New Forest which I rated and Moy Valley which I didn't have both gone into receivership.
Knockanally as well which is a nice course.

Trampas

Luckycharm wrote: »

Knockanally as well which is a nice course.

When did this happen?

slumped

Trampas wrote: »

When did this happen?

http://www.insolvencyjournal.ie/more_details/10-07-13/Ferndale_Leisure_Plc.aspx

Ferndale Leisure Plc
13 July 2010

Trampas

Will the members try and take over the place?

Am I correct in saying that the members had no voting rights?

blackwaterfish

ah now, knockanally is hardly a celtic tiger club, opened in '85 or '86 cant remember which. a shame nonetheless. a hidden gem.

conno16

never heard of either
perhaps they should have invested in some advertising..

blackwaterfish

conno16 wrote: »

never heard of either

perhaps they should have invested in some advertising..

the yardstick by which all golf clubs should measure theyre active market value.

slumped

conno16 wrote: »

never heard of either
perhaps they should have invested in some advertising..

For a person that spouts endless facts, knowledge and random pieces of information, you must have been under a rock for a long long time!!!

You've never heard of either New Forest & Moyvalley or is it New Forest and Knockanally, or is it Moyvalley & Knockanally?

Well known course in Kildare and play in most interclub events.

Johnny_Fontane

blackwaterfish wrote: »

ah now, knockanally is hardly a celtic tiger club, opened in '85 or '86 cant remember which. a shame nonetheless. a hidden gem.

Knockanally is certainly not a hidden gem. Played there this year a couple of times (interclub) and the greens were a total disgrace. probably one nice hole, par 3 11th, but apart from that, its unremarkable in every way. ends with two very straight forward par 5's. one ridiculous green on the 12th, aswell......

No loss there. I feel bad for the members and the staff but it really was in very poor condition.

blackwaterfish

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Knockanally is certainly not a hidden gem. Played there this year a couple of times (interclub) and the greens were a total disgrace. probably one nice hole, par 3 11th, but apart from that, its unremarkable in every way. ends with two very straight forward par 5's. one ridiculous green on the 12th, aswell......

No loss there. I feel bad for the members and the staff but it really was in very poor condition.

no argument here. 10 years at least since i was there last.

GorHugh

blackwaterfish wrote: »

no argument here. 10 years at least since i was there last.

Played there about 8/9 weeks ago in a 3man team event .

Course was in good shape , Greens were in good nick ,

General upkeep of the course was good in fairness , I won't judge a club i haven't played on 10 yrs or more .... Sure wasn't st margrets a great course 10 yrs ago compared to now ...

Unglika Norse

"but apart from that, its unremarkable in every way. "


given the course you come from thats a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.

and it may not be Knockanally thats gone rather the holding compny on the apratments and houses that were built on the course

heavyballs

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Knockanally is certainly not a hidden gem. Played there this year a couple of times (interclub) and the greens were a total disgrace. probably one nice hole, par 3 11th, but apart from that, its unremarkable in every way. ends with two very straight forward par 5's. one ridiculous green on the 12th, aswell......

No loss there. I feel bad for the members and the staff but it really was in very poor condition.

jesus u must play ata great course,to say there's only 1 good hole is a complete joke
played there 4 weeks ago,place was in good shape,greens were great,did comment to my playing partners that tee boxes were petty shabby
the 1st is a super opener,5th good par 4 as is the 6th,10th12th,13th

Luckycharm

The Celtic Tiger bit was refferring to both New Forest and Moyvalley who definetly were!! 2 clubs where a shed load of money was spent- Moyvalley I believe when it first opened was claiming to be the new K club and I think at least €50k to join. They were both linked - same owners I think.
Knockanally I think is a lovelly little course- quite tight. I would say like the Heritage they will probally be run as going concerns.

Johnny_Fontane

heavyballs wrote: »

jesus u must play ata great course,to say there's only 1 good hole is a complete joke
played there 4 weeks ago,place was in good shape,greens were great,did comment to my playing partners that tee boxes were petty shabby
the 1st is a super opener,5th good par 4 as is the 6th,10th12th,13th

probably a bit hard on the course, but with the quality of course around these days, standards should be high. 1st is a good hole, but certainly nothing memorable, 10th/12th/13th are all very straight par 4's with relatively little trouble, the odd bunker but really nothing else. in april 12/13th hole were a drive and a wedge and I dont hit the ball huge.

I just wasnt a fan of the place. I thought it was very up and down, no shape to holes, greens were remarkably poor (I normally dont care too much, but the ball was bouncing off line with 5 foot putts).

Johnny_Fontane

Unglika Norse wrote: »

"but apart from that, its unremarkable in every way. "


given the course you come from thats a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.

and it may not be Knockanally thats gone rather the holding compny on the apratments and houses that were built on the course

not sure you could say that about Knightsbrook. The womens toilet has floury toilet paper.

ozymandias10

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

not sure you could say that about Knightsbrook. The womens toilet has floury toilet paper.

And you know that because;)

ShriekingSheet

Anyone know what kind of shape Moyvalley is in these days?

charlieIRL

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Anyone know what kind of shape Moyvalley is in these days?

I doubt its in good shape, a friend of mine played in a society classic in New Forest last weekend and he said the place is a mess, greens were terrible & not maintained.

Its a real pity as i always wanted to go back to play there.

Anatom

I played Moyvalley about seven or eight weeks ago and the course was in dreadful nick - weeds growing wild in rock-hard bunkers, fairways unkempt, rough hardly managed at all...

Its a pity because its a magnificent course and all it needs is some regular money to be put into maintaining it. Unfortunately, its got no membership to speak of and hardly any visitors (I played on a society outing on a Saturday and there was only one other society out there at the time, and no one in the clubhouse afterwards). Not long for this world I'm afraid...

Used to play Knockanally a lot when I was younger - just after it opened - and it was always a great place to play. They had their difficulties with ownership etc. but the place seemed to be doing really well the last time I was out there. Sorry to see it in trouble now though as it was a good challenge for the higher handicapper. Nothing "showy" about it like New Forest or Moyvalley, so that makes it doubly disappointing. :mad:

blackwaterfish

Anatom wrote: »

Used to play Knockanally a lot when I was younger - just after it opened :mad:

As did i. Would you be a local also?

Anatom

Not too far away - used to make it over in about 20 minutes or so...

stockdam

There was (?) I think a course which could be seen from the M1 near Ballymascanlon/Dundalk.

I don't know what it is called.....does anyone know the story?

It was on the left when going South on the M1 just past Ballymascanlon.

Kevinmarkham

stockdam wrote: »

There was (?) I think a course which could be seen from the M1 near Ballymascanlon/Dundalk.

I don't know what it is called.....does anyone know the story?

It was on the left when going South on the M1 just past Ballymascanlon.

I suspect that you're talking about Carnbeg. Not a course to get excited by and ran into trouble a few years back. I don't remember the story, but the local golfers got very hacked off with the owner and stopped playing there.

stockdam

Ok thanks Kevin.

I never heard about it but could see it as I drove past. It looked a tight course but it sounds like it didn't take off.

LittleLiam

Crazily, i read in the Sunday Times at the weekend that Treasury |Holdings are looking to build a luxury resort down in Wicklow with two 27 hole golf courses!

Yep, just what the area needs.

GorHugh

LittleLiam wrote: »

Crazily, i read in the Sunday Times at the weekend that Treasury |Holdings are looking to build a luxury resort down in Wicklow with two 27 hole golf courses!

Yep, just what the area needs.

Considering Treasury Holdings have 1 billion worth of loans in NAMA .. it's safe to say that project could be shelved for several years ... if not decades .

Anatom

Because just one and a half more golf courses in Leinster isn't enough...:rolleyes:

ipitydafool

Ah now lads your being very harsh there on treasury holdings, sure won't they build loads of houses around the course and sell them like hot cakes for ridiculous money, yeah rite!!!:D Id actually be interested to see what year a new course is built in this country again(obviously course redevelopments aside)

Sad to see those courses go into receivership, for Moyvalley and New Forest I can't say I didnt see it coming. I really liked Moyvalley anytime I played it but it obviously really struggling. The hotel is huge white elephant. Sorry to hear New Forest has gone into bad shape, we have a society outing there at end of August so I will pass on the comments back to our organisers and get on blower.Hopefully it might come good again as at one stage when we played there in 08 we thought they had the best greens in Ireland.
Ive never played Knockanally but id imagine the case of oversupply of golf courses in that area has caught them out and the same in a way for Moyvalley.

Unglika Norse

Again just to point out, the story about knockanally refers to ferndale leisure plc, which was a company that was building and selling houses on the site of the golf course and may be completely different to knockanally golf club itself which could well be in a healthy state and not in receivership

johnnyfardel

Unglika Norse wrote: »

Again just to point out, the story about knockanally refers to ferndale leisure plc, which was a company that was building and selling houses on the site of the golf course and may be completely different to knockanally golf club itself which could well be in a healthy state and not in receivership

Afraid not.

The whole shooting match went into receivership. I work
with a member and they are hoping to purchase the
course and the clubhouse from the receiver.

bridestream

Let's get it straight regarding Knockanally.
I'm a member and a shareholder of Ferndale Leisure plc which owns the land the course is on. The Ferndale Leisure plc liquidation meeting has been postponed due to legal technical issues.
A new meeting will be called within 3/4 weeks to appoint the Liquidator.
Yes, the 400 + members are trying through their Club Committee to save the club and will be in negotiation with the proposed liquidator, John McStay, when appointed.
Incidentally the financial problem arises from the fact 2.3 million is due to AIB and 5 of the Knockanally Village houses remain unsold. We've run out of funds to repay AIB.
I totally agree with those who state too many courses have been built in the Knockanally catchment area during the last 10 years.

The_Architect

ipitydafool wrote: »

Ah now lads your being very harsh there on treasury holdings, sure won't they build loads of houses around the course and sell them like hot cakes for ridiculous money, yeah rite!!!:D Id actually be interested to see what year a new course is built in this country again(obviously course redevelopments aside)

If I'm being brutally honest (and selfish), I'd like to see a whole lot more courses close (job losses aside) that were built on completely the wrong business and maintenance model - carried away with celtic tiger money.

There is still a market for high quality sustainable courses built on the right land where the golf comes first. The market will just have to stabilise first.

I suspect the new course(s) at St.Patricks might be the next you see. I just pray to God that the current developers either see sense and don't use Nicklaus... or sell the land to someone who will actually develop the right kind of facility.

bridestream

Hi 'The Architect' - Where is the new proposed St Patricks course located?

The_Architect

bridestream wrote: »

Hi 'The Architect' - Where is the new proposed St Patricks course located?

Hi Bridestream,

St. Patricks was actually an existing, very, very low budget 36 hole links facility situated right next to Rosapenna. The courses were designed by Eddie Hackett and Joanne O'Haire. They were average but the land was good.

Then the land was bought (at the height) with the idea of developing another high-end hotel etc.. etc... Nicklaus was engaged and actually broke ground - Then all stopped...

There is massive potential there with the right model and architect as there are no planning constraints...

There have been other developments in the pipeline put on hold, probably never to reappear - Hangman's Point (Els); Whitfield Park (O'Meara / EGD); The Marlbrook (Harrington / EGD) but the most exciting by far was Kilshannig where 36 holes were to be developed by Tom Doak and Coore & Crenshaw...

Out of all of those, the only one I can see going ahead is St.Patricks because of its circumstances. But the developer might be hanging on for a few years yet - we'll see...

ipitydafool

here is a link to a photo for part of the land that st patricks was to be developed on. It was put up another thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055858522&highlight=patricks
It looks some spot to put a golf course on. An architects dream!!

couerdelion

Anatom wrote: »

I played Moyvalley about seven or eight weeks ago and the course was in dreadful nick - weeds growing wild in rock-hard bunkers, fairways unkempt, rough hardly managed at all...

Its a pity because its a magnificent course and all it needs is some regular money to be put into maintaining it. Unfortunately, its got no membership to speak of and hardly any visitors (I played on a society outing on a Saturday and there was only one other society out there at the time, and no one in the clubhouse afterwards). Not long for this world I'm afraid...

Just to boot this back up... I played Moyvalley today and didn't know anything about NAMA etc.

I thought it was in pretty decent nick to be honest. The bunkers all had sand in them and no weeds and the greens were excellent, we thought they were better than Headfort last week. There was a few signs that it wasn't perhaps "polished" such as litter on a couple of paths, the air not working at the end of the course and the cut grass left in the rough on a few of the holes making balls harder to find but all three of us were really impressed with the course and all want to play it again. Scary though that we tee'd off at 9 with a couple of old lads in front of us, and the next people out were on the first as we were on the sixth, we thought the course must be haunted or something! It was really quiet, and the wind made it challenging but it was well worth the €75 for a fourball

jimjo

Played Moyvalley earlier this year after I heard stories that the place had gone to the dogs, weeds in bunkers... fairways not cut etc... however when I actually played the course it was perfectly fine, granted bunkers not kept 'Druids Glen like' but similar to a lot of other Dublin member clubs, bit rough but grand. The upkeep was fine, again similar if not better than numerous other member clubs around. The greens there are some of the best I've played, far better than your average members club.

I feel people knock the place for the sake of it. They have to remember that they are playing a good track for a next to nothing price. For example the above poster said they played there for €75 a fourball, thats not even €20 a man. For that price what do people expect... Weekends in Elmgreen they charge something like €25 so need I say more....

bridestream

I played Moyvalley a few days ago and compared to when I last played it in 2009 the deterioration is noticable.
Very little sand in bunkers but lots of weeds showing!
The air compressor for cleaning has not worked for a couple of years.
The T boxes have seriously deteriorated and are rough and covered with weeds. In fact they look dreadful.
A member told me the receiver - for Irish Nationwide I think - has given them two years to get more members and they will be able to replace some of the course machinery taken from them some months ago.
Pity, but I do not see where they are going to get extra members from - they presently have circa 60. Every club - with a few exceptions - are losing substantial numbers of members.
I cannot see Moyvalley surviving.
Knockanally has over 400 members (540 in 2009) and is in Liquidation and Receivership. How can Moyvalley survive on 60 members?
I have no doubt there are many more courses on the edge just now.
What a shame but too many were built during the last 10 years.

Arsenium

Hi,

I played New Forest twice in the last two months and I have to say I am very impressed with the course. The condition of the fairways, greens and tee boxes was great (greens especially). There were issues on both days with the facilities (no dinner, no air for cleaning, cold showers....) but the course itself was fantastic. Membership is 650 now with no entry fee. Is there any chance this place could survive or even go close to realizing the potential it so obviously has? I am very tempted at 650 euros to join, as I feel if things ever picked up and New Forest became the top club it was originally planned to be, then I'd kick myself for not joining at the low price.

Anyway, has anyone played it lately and what did you think of the course especially? Also, anyone know if there is a chance it could survive? Is the membership growing?

Kace

Really enjoyed New Forest when I played there a few months back - nice feel about the place and much preferred it to Moyvalley.

No air and cold showers though....doesn't sound like a place that's doing well.

slave1

Arsenium wrote: »

Hi,

I played New Forest twice in the last two months and I have to say I am very impressed with the course. The condition of the fairways, greens and tee boxes was great (greens especially). There were issues on both days with the facilities (no dinner, no air for cleaning, cold showers....) but the course itself was fantastic. Membership is 650 now with no entry fee. Is there any chance this place could survive or even go close to realizing the potential it so obviously has? I am very tempted at 650 euros to join, as I feel if things ever picked up and New Forest became the top club it was originally planned to be, then I'd kick myself for not joining at the low price.

Anyway, has anyone played it lately and what did you think of the course especially? Also, anyone know if there is a chance it could survive? Is the membership growing?

I hear you, was in the same boat but the doubt about survival put me off, was thinking of Athlone also but I hear they are in cash difficulty so decided on Moate in the end, €550 for 18 months membership