Tri-Nations Springboks v Wallabies Sat 24/7

Judgement Day

The teams are already announced with quite a number of changes on both sides. For the Boks CJ Van der Linde is dropped to the bench and Ruan Pienaar is in for the woeful Ricky Januarie who is dropped from the squad altogether.

The Aussies scrum sees some old faces back and strangely James O'Connor is switched from fullback to the wing with Adam Ashley-Cooper moving to fullback.

After last weekend I was confident that the Boks could win this game but having seen the changes particularly to the Aussie scrum and PDV's effort to sort out his team and I'm going with a decisive Aussie win. No odds up yet on Paddy Power.

South Africa: Z Kirchner (Bulls); G Aplon (Stormers), J Fourie (Stormers), W Olivier (Bulls), B Habana (Stormers); M Steyn (Bulls), R Pienaar (Sharks); G Steenkamp (Bulls), J Smit (Sharks, capt), BJ Botha (Ulster), D Rossouw (Bulls), V Matfield (Bulls), S Burger (Stormers), R Kankowski (Sharks), P Spies (Bulls)

Replacements: C Ralepelle (Bulls), CJ van der Linde (Cheetahs), F van der Merwe (Bulls), D Potgieter (Bulls), F Hougaard (Bulls), B James (Bath), J de Jongh (Stormers)

Australia: A Ashley Cooper (Brumbies); J O'Connor (Western Force), R Horne (NSW Waratahs), M Giteau (Brumbies), D Mitchell (NSW Waratahs); Q Cooper (Reds), W Genia (Reds); B Robinson (NSW Waratahs), S Faingaa (Reds), S Ma'afu (Brumbies), D Mumm (NSW Waratahs), N Sharpe (Western Force), R Elsom (Brumbies, capt), D Pocock (Western Force), R Brown (Western Force)

Replacements: S Moore (Brumbies), J Slipper (Reds), R Simmons (Reds), M Hodgson (Western Force), L Burgess (NSW Waratahs), B Barnes (NSW Waratahs), K Beale (NSW Waratahs)

http://www.scrum.com/trinations2010/rugby/story/119708.html

C'MON THE WALLABIES!


James O'Connor during his hat-trick outing against Italy - he needs another big game.

Wobblies in Brisbane? Gotta have an advantage. Didnt they beat the boks there last year?

Gonna go with the crims on this one with SA getting nothing from their tour.

Judgement Day

They certainly did 21-6 last September. A repeat performance would be nice.

pappyodaniel

My money's on The Aussies.

wixfjord

What time is this at Irish time guys?

11am I believe with coverage starting at 10:30

Crash

11am I think?

wixfjord

Sweet! Bday on Friday so great cure for a hangover, or reason to continue drinking as the case may be!

Judgement Day

Sky Sports 2 at 11am according to Paddy Power.
PP have the Aussies as slight favourites to win but I fancy something a bit more ambitious: Australia by more than 1 point @ 10/11; by more than 13 points @ 10/3 and by more than 19 @ 11/2 - who could resist? Try scorers: James O'Connor a try @ 9/5 and Quade Cooper @ 3/1 both look good.

The largest margin to Australia in a match against the Boks was in the same Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane in 2006 an incredible (49-0). Surprisingly this rather poor YouTube video is all that I could find, but you get the picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qQr5p-MnTs

C'MON THE AUSSIES!

^^ Isnt that the largest margin ever in a tri-nations match?

subfreq

What to do with Matt Giteau?

Dean's just can't break the shackles here. He pinned the season on Cooper and fair enough but only due to injury has he played a straight running player next to him. In that test with Barnes at 12 the Aussies looked majestic.

Giteau as great as he is does not fit the current mix and I could see the Aussies getting done on the weekend.

I would have liked to see Gits shifted to 14 if he absolutely has to be selected for political reasons. Mitchell is their to hold and ball and run from 15 meters out and does littel else. Certainly has no defense. I would have liked a big guy like Ant Faianga outside Cooper but I have no idea what it will take to get that selection.

Deans seems stuck in a selection rut to me. It's a huge pressure game in Australia for him and the team.

I genuinely could not call this game.

PhatPiggins

Good points. I have similar thoughts re Giteau and his need to have O Connor on the pitch.

Like your bet on Quade JD, over 44 points looks a solid bet to me.

almighty1

Is Andries Bekker injured or something? He had a great Super 14 and surely would be a better partner for Matfield than Roussow.

chimchimney

bekker is injured

http://www.scrum.com/trinations2010/rugby/story/119680.html

although they favoured roussouw over bekker last week

subfreq wrote: »

I would have liked to see Gits shifted to 14 if he absolutely has to be selected for political reasons. QUOTE]

just curious - what are the political reasons?

subfreq

subfreq wrote: »

What to do with Matt Giteau?

Dean's just can't break the shackles here. He pinned the season on Cooper and fair enough but only due to injury has he played a straight running player next to him. In that test with Barnes at 12 the Aussies looked majestic.

Giteau as great as he is does not fit the current mix and I could see the Aussies getting done on the weekend.

I would have liked to see Gits shifted to 14 if he absolutely has to be selected for political reasons. Mitchell is their to hold and ball and run from 15 meters out and does littel else. Certainly has no defense. I would have liked a big guy like Ant Faianga outside Cooper but I have no idea what it will take to get that selection.

Deans seems stuck in a selection rut to me. It's a huge pressure game in Australia for him and the team.

I genuinely could not call this game.

You would shift one of the best 12's in the world to the wing,where his lack of out and out gas will kill any attack down that side?

Giteau's problem has been his insistance at playing 10,where he doesnt have the skills to control the game.
This resulted in playing him at 10 and Barnes who is inferior at 12.

Deans has finally told him to put up and shut up and is now playing him in his correct position 2nd five eight.My guess is he will also sacrifice the kicking duties to cooper aswell.

If Giteau and Cooper gell they would nearly be unplayable.

If you think the selection of Giteau is political I dont think you have watched him enough.On his day he is the best 12 in the world bar none.

The interesting thing will be to look at when the Boks have a set piece will Cooper go to fullback and AAC go to 10,so as not to expose Coopers weak defence.This is what the Reds have been doing with him and the big question will be will this work at international level.Coopers defence is Rog like and thats what his international career will hinge on.

Ben Alexander will be the Aussies big loss,him and Robinson have been dominating opposition scrums and I would have fancied them to destroy the bok scrum.Unfortunately his replacement Ma'fu is well,****e.

subfreq

I think Deans, The ARU, Senior Aussie players and Giteau have been having a bit of a ding dong since he was not considered for the captaincy or Vice Captaincy.

It was a bold move by Deans at the time. One that I still agree with but I think he is starting to lose out in the power struggle.

I think Gits should have come up North after the winter tour and had a sabbatical like Rocky to clear his mind.

subfreq

subfreq wrote: »

I think Deans, The ARU, Senior Aussie players and Giteau have been having a bit of a ding dong since he was not considered for the captaincy or Vice Captaincy.

It was a bold move by Deans at the time. One that I still agree with but I think he is starting to lose out in the power struggle.

I think Gits should have come up North after the winter tour and had a sabbatical like Rocky to clear his mind.

Yeah,seems like he likes to take alot on alright.Might be good for him if they take away the kicking duties aswell.
Coopers distance isnt too hot but he is acurate.

Similar to Bod at leinster they need to force him to take the pressure off himself.I cant wait for this match.

If SA kick constantly like they have been doing I think Aus will demolish them.
I also hope Aus do it,SA are such a foul dirty team.
PDV's tactics makes Declan Kidney seem like pep guardiola.

Dougalicious

Koa Bewildered Flannel wrote: »

Yeah,seems like he likes to take alot on alright.Might be good for him if they take away the kicking duties aswell.
Coopers distance isnt too hot but he is acurate.

Similar to Bod at leinster they need to force him to take the pressure off himself.I cant wait for this match.

If SA kick constantly like they have been doing I think Aus will demolish them.
I also hope Aus do it,SA are such a foul dirty team.
PDV's tactics makes Declan Kidney seem like pep guardiola.

Bit harsh Goose, Kidney's not in the job two years and he's already won a grand slam, something we hadn't done 4 60 YEARS!! 3 defeats and people are calling 4 his head!! How fickle us Irish can be!! Support your team through the bad times as well as the good!! Be patient!!

Dougalicious

subfreq wrote: »

What to do with Matt Giteau?

Dean's just can't break the shackles here. He pinned the season on Cooper and fair enough but only due to injury has he played a straight running player next to him. In that test with Barnes at 12 the Aussies looked majestic.

Giteau as great as he is does not fit the current mix and I could see the Aussies getting done on the weekend.

I would have liked to see Gits shifted to 14 if he absolutely has to be selected for political reasons. Mitchell is their to hold and ball and run from 15 meters out and does littel else. Certainly has no defense. I would have liked a big guy like Ant Faianga outside Cooper but I have no idea what it will take to get that selection.

Gitaeu deserves time. He was the 1st centre in the world b4 he was shifted to 12!! Maybe this was down 2 having larkham at 10 but it's worth the risk if he comes good!! I agree with the idea of having a hard running centre outside Cooper!! Is Horne upto the task? In my opinion he's not!! Even in Super14 he looks average!! At moment I would switch Ashley Cooper to 13 with maybe Barnes at FB!!(he is too good a player to leave out and Oztralia don't have a lot of them at the mo!! Also they should try abd pinch Greg Inglis from league as Melbourne are pretty much done!! He cud be the man to make the Wallaby backline tick!!

Dougalicious

Dougalicious wrote: »

Bit harsh Goose, Kidney's not in the job two years and he's already won a grand slam, something we hadn't done 4 60 YEARS!! 3 defeats and people are calling 4 his head!! How fickle us Irish can be!! Support your team through the bad times as well as the good!! Be patient!!

Everyone here knows my thoughts on Kidney.
I never liked the appointment in the first place,I hate the rugby he plays and dont enjoy watching Ireland play.

Fair play to him he won the grandslam,not playing good rugby though.Sticking with favourites and set in his cautious ways.
If I wanted to watch a team kick the ball every time they get it I would watch AFL.
Also its 5 defeats.

PhatPiggins

Oz's biggest problem seems to be that they have no specialist 12/13/15/11 of note. They have lots of talented utlity players in Ashley-Cooper/O Connor/Giteau/Barnes who can cover all of them but their games aren't improving with the constant switching of positions.

Time isn't on the side of Giteau and ACC so I'd like to see Deans pick a position for them, stick to it and leave them at it

subfreq

It looks like the Boks aren't even going to compete for the ball on the deck with the back row they have. Just make front up tackles and fan out a defensive line. It's not the worst way to negate the small Aussie back line, as they have no one to break the line, just a load of talented steppers.

On the flip side SAF have huge ball carriers to run at the smaller Aussies.

I think it's going to be a belter. Possibly the best game of the series as the teams are pretty evenly matched, both with pressure and a load to play for.

Judgement Day

Quade Cooper is some player and only 22! Just been having a look at his vital statistics here: http://www.redsrugby.com.au/library/reds_players/cooper,_quade,67242.html/section/40810

I already have him to score a try @ 3/1 but two tries @ 20/1 and 3 @ 200/1 well you've got to give it lash haven't you?

Ciaran-Irl

I'm going with South Africa on this one. I'd say they'll win by +9 or more as well. People forget that the Saffers conceded two tries in each all blacks game when down to 14 men. They'll be better with BJ Botha up front, and JDV was useless on the wing. The All Blacks have been outstanding, Australia lost to a shambolic England team and nearly lost to one of the worst Ireland displays in a long time. An Ireland team missing countless first strength players.

Judgement Day

Possibly worthy of its own thread but I would have thought this latest nonsense from PDV ahead of Saturday's match won't do the Boks' already battered morale much good.

From: http://www.scrum.com/trinations2010/rugby/story/119865.html

De Villiers alleges referees conspiracy
Scrum.com

July 21, 2010





South Africa coach Peter de Villiers has sensationally suggested that New Zealand's two Tri-Nations victories over his team were assisted by a conspiracy designed to generate more support ahead of the World Cup next year.

The SARU has meanwhile taken action address what they perceive as a "bias" against their team from referees and the judicial process, but de Villiers has taken the step of questioning the integrity of officials, potentially invoking the wrath of Sanzar and the IRB.

The All Blacks beat the Springboks 32-12 and 31-17 in this year's first two Tri-Nations matches on New Zealand soil, and while de Villiers has been critical of referees, there has been little suggestion the officials were unbalanced or that the All Blacks didn't win on their own merits, until now.

"I've got my own observations about the last two tests, and I can't say it in public. But we do have a World Cup in New Zealand next year, and maybe it was the right thing for them to win the games so they can attract more people to the games next year," de Villiers told Australia's Rugby Club television show.

South Africa's Bakkies Botha was suspended for nine weeks for a headbutt on Jimmy Cowan in the first match - an offence he escaped punishment for at the time - and Jean de Villiers has copped a two-match ban for a dangerous tackle after the second test.

Botha was later sin-binned in the first game for a professional foul and Danie Rossouw received a yellow card in the second match for a light kick on All Blacks captain Richie McCaw. The South Africans believe McCaw has been getting away with too much at the breakdown, and de Villiers has suggested he may need to coach his team to "cheat" to stay on an even playing field.

SARU president Oregan Hoskins told the Cape Times newspaper that he had instructed South Africa's representative on the Sanzar legal committee, Judge Lex Mpati, to "take up" the apparent inconsistent rulings against the Springboks.

"On the judicial side, I have asked Judge Mpati to take it up," Hoskins said. "A number of stakeholders have complained to me about the lack of consistency in the rulings of the judicial officials in rugby.

"I have stressed to Judge Mpati the seriousness of the matter, and he has promised that he will come back to me in writing hopefully by next week. I don't want to say too much further, as previously I have spoken about the issue in the media and nothing has been done about it."

South African Rugby's manager of referees, Andre Watson, did not want to comment on Alain Rolland's performance in Wellington.

"I looked at the ref, and he made some brilliant decisions and some not-so-good decisions," Watson said. "I can't say if the Boks got a raw deal from the referee because if I do say that that is the case, then South Africa will love me and the rest of the world will hate me, and if I don't feel that way, it will be the other way around."

What a load of nonsense. He is a real life troll. The boks would have been hockeyed regardless of what referee was in charge.

toomevara

Judgement Day wrote: »

South Africa coach Peter de Villiers has sensationally suggested that New Zealand's two Tri-Nations victories over his team were assisted by a conspiracy designed to generate more support ahead of the World Cup next year.

Jesus, you could not make this guy up. The fact that the SA coach is clearly a quasi-delusional paranoiac of course had no impact on SA's complete hosing by an AB side playing rugby on another level to theirs. Dear lord where do you start...sooner SARFU farm this guy out to Shady Pines Rest Home for the Mildly Confused, the better...can't see it happening anytime soon though.

redroar1942

Deleted User wrote: »

What a load of nonsense. He is a real life troll. The boks would have been hockeyed regardless of what referee was in charge.

The blacks scored 4 tries in the periods that Botha and Roussouw were sin binned. Both games were ended as a result of the ref's. Botha absolutely deserved it and should have gone sooner but Roussow's was pathetic and further compounded by awful bia's for the rest of the game. They wouldn't have won either game but it's stretching it to say they would have been hockyied regardless.

PDV is a nut who's not in any way qualified to coach SA, but there are issue's with how NH officials ref SH teams. I can't wait to see what he'll say about George Clancey, surely the worst top tier ref in the NH, after the Oz game.

redroar1942

redroar1942 wrote: »

The blacks scored 4 tries in the periods that Botha and Roussouw were sin binned. Both games were ended as a result of the ref's. Botha absolutely deserved it and should have gone sooner but Roussow's was pathetic and further compounded by awful bia's for the rest of the game. They wouldn't have won either game but it's stretching it to say they would have been hockyied regardless.

I respectfully disagree. New Zealand were in a high tempo mood where everything was working for them. I think the tries were going to come regardless of the YC's. Anyhoo thats for another thread.


For some interesting facts about this Saturday, these are the results in Brisbane against the Boks in the last few years:

1997: Australia won 32-20
1999: Australia won 32-6
2003: Australia won 29-9
2006: Australia won 49-0
2009: Australia won 21-6


Not a single try since '97. Of course stats are all meaningless come kick off

Judgement Day

This from "The Australian" newspaper 22/7/2010

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/wallabies-suffer-a-plunge-in-latest-poll/story-e6frg7mf-1225895290921

Wallabies suffer a plunge in latest poll

Saturday's Tri-Nations match with the Springboks in Brisbane, has taken on new urgency with news rugby's popularity in Australia has plunged.

Australian Rugby Union boss John O'Neill confirmed yesterday that rugby's share of the ferociously contested Australian sporting marketplace has shrunk to 13.7 per cent, 0.3 per cent lower than in 1996, the year the game went professional.

Like football, which ebbs and flows in rhythm with the Socceroos, rugby's popularity is harnessed to the Wallabies who in three seasons under Robbie Deans have won only 18 of 32 Tests. Bad enough that they barely win more than they lose but their many dour victories have had almost the same effect as defeats in disillusioning swinging supporters.

The latest Market Share Index statistics tell the tale of a dramatic fall from the heights of 2003 when rugby, on the back of the Wallabies winning the 1999 World Cup, the 2000 and 2001 Tri-Nations, the Bledisloe Cup from 2000-02 and the 2001 series against the British and Irish Lions peaked at a 22 per cent market share.


At that point, even NRL officials began to worry rugby might overtake rugby league as the country's second-ranked footballing code behind the AFL, but then the tide turned as the Wallabies' fortunes went into decline.

Granted, "decline" is a relative term given that Saturday's Suncorp Stadium Test will serve as a professional era tiebreaker for Australia and South Africa, with each side having won 17 Tests from 35 encounters since 1996, with one drawn.

Against non-SANZAR rivals, the Wallabies, ranked third in the world, are cruising at an 80 per cent win ratio.

It is the trans-Tasman rivalry, however, that is dragging down rugby's following.

In the glory days from 1998 to 2002, the Wallabies beat the All Blacks in eight of 11 Tests, but since then they have won only four of 20 and rugby's support base has crumbled.

"So if you want to know what keeps me awake at night, it's all of the above," O'Neill said yesterday.

Lately, he has been spreading the insomnia, making certain the Wallabies are well aware of their responsibility to keep the code flying high by winning their opening two Tri-Nations fixtures against the Boks in Brisbane and the All Blacks in Melbourne on July 31.

"It's not about applying undue pressure," O'Neill said.

"It's just a plain fact of life that we're playing in a Tri-Nations and winning home games is an absolute imperative if you want to be a contender.

"I can rarely recall two more important games in every respect, in the context of being a year out from the World Cup and in the context of where we are sitting as a game."

But it may just be this is the recession Australian rugby had to have and now, in the words of another Labor Prime Minister, it is moving forward, its best days still ahead of it.

Never again will it cede the stage to its footballing rivals in the middle of winter as it has done for the past month, having staged not a single major match between the June 26 Ireland Test and Saturday's Tri-Nations opener.

The expansion of Super rugby to a 15-team format next year will see the provincial tournament run from February to August in non-World Cup years, with a break for a three-Test series against a northern hemisphere team in June, followed by the Tri-Nations -- the Four Nations from 2012 following Argentina's entry -- and the annual spring tour. And O'Neill yesterday foreshadowed the creation next year of an under-20 competition involving the Academy sides of the five Australian Super rugby franchises.

"I'm an eternal optimist," O'Neill said. "I keep thinking we're about to crack it."

backrow67n8

toomevara wrote: »

Jesus, you could not make this guy up. The fact that the SA coach is clearly a quasi-delusional paranoiac of course had no impact on SA's complete hosing by an AB side playing rugby on another level to theirs. Dear lord where do you start...sooner SARFU farm this guy out to Shady Pines Rest Home for the Mildly Confused, the better...can't see it happening anytime soon though.

Hit the nail on the head there, can't understand how the SARU and players put up with his nonsense, he's come out with some beauty's in press conferences and I know he always defends his players but I'd say even Schalk Burger was cringing when he heard PDV's comments about tutu's and ballerina. The guy has picked some very poor players and even poorer tactics this season and if results don't pick up soon maybe he will be gone. Would be a good thing for rugby in general imo

PhatPiggins

backrow67n8 wrote: »

Hit the nail on the head there, can't understand how the SARU and players put up with his nonsense, he's come out with some beauty's in press conferences and I know he always defends his players but I'd say even Schalk Burger was cringing when he heard PDV's comments about tutu's and ballerina. The guy has picked some very poor players and even poorer tactics this season and if results don't pick up soon maybe he will be gone. Would be a good thing for rugby in general imo

The Boks not winning another WC would be a good thing in general and PDV is the best chance of that happening

backrow67n8

PhatPiggins wrote: »

The Boks not winning another WC would be a good thing in general and PDV is the best chance of that happening

Haha true true but he is damaging the image of the game with his views on some of his players misdemeanors on the field of play, hopefully the wallabies will continue the Bok bashing on Saturday, can't see it though, the Aussies lost to a poor English xv and were awful in defeating Ireland, I still think the Bok's superior power up front and the omission of Ricky Januarie should be enough to see them win

PhatPiggins

backrow67n8 wrote: »

Haha true true but he is damaging the image of the game with his views on some of his players misdemeanors on the field of play, hopefully the wallabies will continue the Bok bashing on Saturday, can't see it though, the Aussies lost to a poor English xv and were awful in defeating Ireland, I still think the Bok's superior power up front and the omission of Ricky Januarie should be enough to see them win

I honestly don't know how this one will go but the Australians are very deceptive when it comes to form. They are the arch minimalists when it come's to beating teams, I cant remember the last time they hammered a top 8 team but they always seem to be able to turn it on when you least expect it.

Echani

Anyone have a decent site to stream this from? Got a delayed flight in Vancouver and many many hours to kill!

The Aussie

PhatPiggins wrote: »

the Australians are very deceptive when it comes to form.

Thats because they are to worried about their hair and slow motion replays for the 6.00 news. They should do it today but only because its a home game.

They might actually turn up and play a game today, im starting to think the Australian rugby team is a bit like the French soccer team without the cheating

duckysauce

Echani wrote: »

Anyone have a decent site to stream this from? Got a delayed flight in Vancouver and many many hours to kill!

have a look in the streams thread

duckysauce

clancy reffing

LOL another yellow card in the first 4 mins!! Jaques Fourie gone for 10

amacachi

Missed that, what was the yellow for? Gotta love the commentators giving out about the linesmen dobbing people in. :pac:

duckysauce

dangerous tackle

Dangerous tackle without the ball. Conspiracy involving the kiwi touch judges no doubt. Looking forward to PDV's comments on this.

Crash

Did you know that if you add some extra letters to George Clancys name, it becomes an anagram of "Go on New Zealand"?

Its all a conspiracy I tells ya.

amacachi

Looked ok at first glance.

EDIT: Good tackle.

corny

Great defending Habana.

pappyodaniel

Georgie Clancy's done well so far...much to the chagrin of the Australian commentators, no doubt he'll do something stupid in the 80mins though.

thomond2006

You know what kind of update I'm looking for...:D

wixfjord

Hungover as **** but good game so far. Gorgeous George doing ok. Aussie commentators giving him a hard time.

thomond2006

**** me... great composure from Mitchell to hang on

Try for Australia.

juggling try.

amacachi

Funny looking pass in the build-up. :P