good prices

snowman707

was passing through ennis to day and decided to have a look in at the mart
lamb sale was over but saw cull ewes making over €130

on to the weanling bull ring BB 345kgs €1300

picked up a copy on the indo on the way out and read that farmer's with 600 dairy cows are in cash crisis


there is something very wrong in this country and it is not the weather !

whelan1

that story in the indo was scary ... giving people 6 days to get the money , any idea what co-op it is they where talking about?

reilig

I know from a board member of connacht gold that they have a lot of large accounts in arrears and are planning to implement the same policy. Did the indo say that it was a co-op in the south, I thought it did??

whelan1

reilig wrote: »

I know from a board member of connacht gold that they have a lot of large accounts in arrears and are planning to implement the same policy. Did the indo say that it was a co-op in the south, I thought it did??

good if its in the south i can sleep easy tonight:rolleyes:

massey woman

When a weanling is making more than a 2 year old finished bullock there is surely something wrong
Again the factories controlling the industry
Whereas the live trade is providing the real market price
Why do farmers continue to provide the raw material to the factories
Sell as weanling and control/manage your variable costs?

Tora Bora

Prices were crazy in ennis for all stock. It's going to be good fall to be selling weanlings.

reilig

massey woman wrote: »

When a weanling is making more than a 2 year old finished bullock there is surely something wrong
Again the factories controlling the industry
Whereas the live trade is providing the real market price
Why do farmers continue to provide the raw material to the factories
Sell as weanling and control/manage your variable costs?

I suppose its a case of being prepared to produce what the market wants or the market will pay most for. In recent years its weinlings that are suitable for export. 10 years ago exports were slow and the factories paid the best money and we were finishing aa bulls at 20 to 22 months for slaughter through the aa producer group in athleague. God knows what we will be doing in 10 more years. Maybe it will turn full circle.

I have no sympathy for factories. They are selling slaughtered meat to some of the same countries that we export live animals to and are obviously getting great money - if it is cost effective for feed lots in other countries to import our cattle, finish them and slaughter them, then our factories are making huge profits by exporting slaughtered carcasses of cattle that they bought at low prices to these countries.
Their day will come and their greed will be punished. I just have sympathy for the low paid meat factory workers that will lose their jobs because of the greed of factory owners.

Birdnuts

Does anyone know the reason why prices for sheep are so strong this year compared to other stock - where is the demand coming from??:)

leg wax

massey woman wrote: »

When a weanling is making more than a 2 year old finished bullock there is surely something wrong
Again the factories controlling the industry
Whereas the live trade is providing the real market price
Why do farmers continue to provide the raw material to the factories
Sell as weanling and control/manage your variable costs?

not getting at you massey, there is nothing wrong,if farmers keep suppling factories at low prices and keep comeing back year after year telling tales of woe and loss makeing but still doing it whoes at fault , not the factories its the farmers, they are trying to buy it as cheap as possible no different than you or me trying to buy anything as cheap as we can

leg wax

Tora Bora wrote: »

Prices were crazy in ennis for all stock. It's going to be good fall to be selling weanlings.

dont agree with it been a good fall , sell any weanlings at 300kg suitable for export now they will make a lot less later why supply and demand,i learnt my lesson from last year averaged 2.25 a kilo all weanlings gone out of my yard now at 3.30a kilo supply and demand

snowman707

Birdnuts wrote: »

Does anyone know the reason why prices for sheep are so strong this year compared to other stock - where is the demand coming from??:)

the boat


live export .

pakalasa

snowman707 wrote: »

........on to the weanling bull ring BB 345kgs €1300 .......QUOTE]/

Are all thes BB's going to Italy or do some go to Belgium?

Add to that price, vaccine,transport, margin for exporter.....what price is the farmer/finisher at the other end paying?
It makes you wonder alright, doesn't it!

whelan1

Birdnuts wrote: »

Does anyone know the reason why prices for sheep are so strong this year compared to other stock - where is the demand coming from??:)

low numbers in the country i think

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

Are all thes BB's going to Italy or do some go to Belgium?

QUOTE]

A lot of BB heifers went to the UK last Spring, well every mart in the North West was visited on a weekly basis and they bought up anything with a bit of quality.
Spoke to one buyer when i was giving him a luck penney for a heifer that he bought from me, who said that they were going onto feedlots over there and then slaughtered at 550 to 600kg. He said that he knew of at least 4 other buyers from close to him that were over on a weekly basis to look for BB heifers as there was a big shortage of quality cattle for finishing in the Uk earlier this year.

I think that a lot of the BB Bulls went to Italy and Spain, maybe I'm wrong.

Shauny2010

The BB and Charlies are going to Italy for sure. there's not as much demand for the limousines this year as the French are supplying the Italian market with them. At 1300 for a BB sounds great, but a lot of them BBs are BARN fed like pigs and costs such as AI Feed and the vet ( Caesarean sections!!) are high..

Dunedin

Shauny2010 wrote: »

The BB and Charlies are going to Italy for sure. there's not as much demand for the limousines this year as the French are supplying the Italian market with them. At 1300 for a BB sounds great, but a lot of them BBs are BARN fed like pigs and costs such as AI Feed and the vet ( Caesarean sections!!) are high..

as said above, there is huge costs associated with producing the top quality BB weanlings. in addition to the above, the majority are autumn calving so you have the additional cost there and also you need to ahve a good set up to be able to manage same.

doesn't really suit the part timer 'cos he won't have the time to watch the cows at calving so therefore he goes for easy calvers such as Limo/hereford etc within a spring born set up - less cost, less work, less losses (hopefully).

I would say that there are not too many guys producing large numbers of top quality Autumn born BB weanlings doing it on a part time basis or at the very least without someone at home keeping an eye.

I'd be interested to hear the comments on this from any export producing part time farmer.

leg wax

Shauny2010 wrote: »

The BB and Charlies are going to Italy for sure. there's not as much demand for the limousines this year as the French are supplying the Italian market with them. At 1300 for a BB sounds great, but a lot of them BBs are BARN fed like pigs and costs such as AI Feed and the vet ( Caesarean sections!!) are high..

8euros for a ai straw, 100 euros of meal. as for sections thats only with pbr blues, the crosses are the same risk as any other cont breed.

tismesoitis

leg wax wrote: »

8euros for a ai straw, 100 euros of meal. as for sections thats only with pbr blues, the crosses are the same risk as any other cont breed.

Fully agree actually bought 40 straws of SFL from bova genetics for a total of 320 an got 15 more free that works out around €5.80 each. first calves on the ground are decent.

Dunedin

leg wax wrote: »

8euros for a ai straw, 100 euros of meal. as for sections thats only with pbr blues, the crosses are the same risk as any other cont breed.

sorry lads, but cannot agree there. Was chatting a man lately who has 50 sucklers - mostly crosses Limo cows with BB. He reckons that it is almost 1 in ten need vet assistance. maybe not all operation but some sort of assistance.

furthermore, if you are doing single suckling spring born herd and doing AI it is virtually impossible to catch all your cows on. big cost carrying empty cows

I'm sure that you'll all agree that cows who have calves running with them are alot harder to detect on heat. contrast to the autumn herds with the good set up where the calves are let thro' twice a day to suckler and are indoors - much easier to catch the heat when calf not dragging out of cow all day. that is why the little part timer has his bull running with the spriing born calf with the goal to drop a live calf (on her own 'cos he's away working).

tismesoitis

Dunedin wrote: »

sorry lads, but cannot agree there. Was chatting a man lately who has 50 sucklers - mostly crosses Limo cows with BB. He reckons that it is almost 1 in ten need vet assistance. maybe not all operation but some sort of assistance.

furthermore, if you are doing single suckling spring born herd and doing AI it is virtually impossible to catch all your cows on. big cost carrying empty cows

I'm sure that you'll all agree that cows who have calves running with them are alot harder to detect on heat. contrast to the autumn herds with the good set up where the calves are let thro' twice a day to suckler and are indoors - much easier to catch the heat when calf not dragging out of cow all day. that is why the little part timer has his bull running with the spriing born calf with the goal to drop a live calf (on her own 'cos he's away working).

he must be over feeding his cows if he needs d vet that often! teaser bull with chinball harness will make sure not one cow goes un served.

pakalasa

tismesoitis wrote: »

he must be over feeding his cows if he needs d vet that often! teaser bull with chinball harness will make sure not one cow goes un served.

+1
I ran a teaser with chin-ball this year. Would recomend it to anyone. Some came bulling 4 weeks after calving. He wont miss the heats, I quarantee you. In fact he will follow them closely for up to 3 days before.

leg wax

tismesoitis wrote: »

he must be over feeding his cows if he needs d vet that often! teaser bull with chinball harness will make sure not one cow goes un served.

+1

leg wax

tismesoitis wrote: »

Fully agree actually bought 40 straws of SFL from bova genetics for a total of 320 an got 15 more free that works out around €5.80 each. first calves on the ground are decent.

have 1 sfl out of a little blonde heifer and shes sexy, have more on the way, bova are good to deal with came all the way down with 20 straws

vanderbadger

leg wax wrote: »

have 1 sfl out of a little blonde heifer and shes sexy, have more on the way, bova are good to deal with came all the way down with 20 straws

leg wax do you do your own ai or do you just store the straws for your ai man, know a few lads that did the ai course and are doing their own along , they wouldnt have huge herds but you can see the difference in the quality of their calves

leg wax

vanderbadger wrote: »

leg wax do you do your own ai or do you just store the straws for your ai man, know a few lads that did the ai course and are doing their own along , they wouldnt have huge herds but you can see the difference in the quality of their calves

yes do all my own ai .yes it gives you more flexability and interest, i would recomend it to any one.

Tora Bora

tismesoitis wrote: »

he must be over feeding his cows if he needs d vet that often! teaser bull with chinball harness will make sure not one cow goes un served.

I've never used anything other than Charloais bull. Out of last 124 calvings in my herd, had a total of 3 sections. Two of those were out of heifers who broke in to my stock bull:mad: and the other was nothing to do with the size of the calf coming out, but due to fact he was seriously twisted and we could not straighten him enough to get legs in pulling position.
Other than those 3 sections, I have never ever had a vet to assist, and 90% of calvings are totally unassisted. I just let them get on with it:cool: Pulling calves when not absolutely necessary is a disaster and leads to a lazy cow when calving in future. She will expect help every time.:pac:

To be honest, I would expect no less sections or need to intervene in any way, if I used Limousine bull.

vanderbadger

leg wax wrote: »

yes do all my own ai .yes it gives you more flexability and interest, i would recomend it to any one.

i see genexcel advertising ai courses every week, did you do course and where did you get you equipment?
sorry for all questions:D

leg wax

vanderbadger wrote: »

i see genexcel advertising ai courses every week, did you do course and where did you get you equipment?
sorry for all questions:D

did course with dovea and in local factory dawn meats,dovea supplied all the gear

reilig

Tora Bora wrote: »

I've never used anything other than Charloais bull. Out of last 124 calvings in my herd, had a total of 3 sections. Two of those were out of heifers who broke in to my stock bull:mad: and the other was nothing to do with the size of the calf coming out, but due to fact he was seriously twisted and we could not straighten him enough to get legs in pulling position.
Other than those 3 sections, I have never ever had a vet to assist, and 90% of calvings are totally unassisted. I just let them get on with it:cool: Pulling calves when not absolutely necessary is a disaster and leads to a lazy cow when calving in future. She will expect help every time.:pac:

To be honest, I would expect no less sections or need to intervene in any way, if I used Limousine bull.

Have used BB AI on 15 cows per year for the last 3 years and never even had to call a vet for them. last year all but 1 calved unassisted. In the last 10 years we only have had 1 section on the farm out of at total of approx 500 calvings - and that was where the calf bed was twisted and the calf was dead. Put a lot of heifers in calf to my stock bull over the last 6 years and never had a problem with calving. he's a chaorlais out of cf52 - so is an easy calver.

Firm believer that ease of calving will be determined by how you feed your incalf cattle. I really only ever have to get a vet to assist with calving if there is a problem like a head or a leg down or if the cow has a problem or fault. Its very rare that i would have to have the vet because the calf is too big. Its down to the feeding.

Although I could see an issue like the one that tismesoitis raised above if you were using cows that weren't suitable. Some cows can be narrow and just classed as bad calvers. For example i have seen it in the past with some half bred fresian heifers that we bought and we had to assist them all when they were carrying to a limousin bull.

You won't produce big quality calves out of small narrow cows. If you try to by using a broad bull then you're asking for trouble. As someone said here last week, bigger cows are harder kept, but they produce bigger calves. That's the price you pay.

Shauny2010

leg wax wrote: »

8euros for a ai straw, 100 euros of meal. as for sections thats only with pbr blues, the crosses are the same risk as any other cont breed.

Sounds easy,but i Don't think an 8 Euro straw and 100 Euro of feed will produce a 1300 Euro weanling.
Top weanlings means top straws costing 25+
And then the repeats.......~(thats if you can get them bulling)
And the cow she`ll eat 100 euro of meal....
And I saw a good share of the BBs only making the same money as charlies out of stock bulls...

Maybe its Horses for courses.....

snowman707

some interesting comments,

back to my original post, we used to keep about 15 sucklers at 1 stage ( my daughter still keeps a couple) producing calves similar to the one i mentioned, we specialized in the show sales and even with the rosettes, we struggled to pass €850 to €900 , 3/4 bred limousins would be about 200 less,


however we found the bb too difficult and time consuming for our system and believed the limousins were not paying their way when it wasn't necessary to keep the cow for the premium so the cows were cashed and milk quota purchased, oddly enough milk is still the same price :(

leg wax

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Sounds easy,but i Don't think an 8 Euro straw and 100 Euro of feed will produce a 1300 Euro weanling.
Top weanlings means top straws costing 25+
And then the repeats.......~(thats if you can get them bulling)
And the cow she`ll eat 100 euro of meal....
And I saw a good share of the BBs only making the same money as charlies out of stock bulls...

Maybe its Horses for courses.....

edj byu sfl ovo vdc and the list goes on for bb bulls producing top weanlings for expo at 8 euros a straw as for cow 30euros of meal it cost me last year [barley /citrus] per cow, and if it cost me 100 euros for meal i would have no bother in giveing it to her. and i agree that bad bb only make the same as charlies and i have them to, and the cows are getting the road. as for horses cant stand them:D:D

Dunedin

leg wax wrote: »

edj byu sfl ovo vdc and the list goes on for bb bulls producing top weanlings for expo at 8 euros a straw as for cow 30euros of meal it cost me last year [barley /citrus] per cow, and if it cost me 100 euros for meal i would have no bother in giveing it to her. and i agree that bad bb only make the same as charlies and i have them to, and the cows are getting the road. as for horses cant stand them:D:D

can I return to one of my original points...... how many of the export type BB weanling producers are doing it on a part time basis.

throw in autumn calving, high feeding volume, own AI, calving, etc - it all takes time.

Contrast to spring calving (and I know some BB producers will say that they do spring calving also but think most are autumn); Cow calves to limo/easy charlie. let out once weather and grass allow - Bull follows 4 weeks later. next seen in the yard 10 months later... might get a dose mid summer if their lucky:)

reilig

Dunedin wrote: »

can I return to one of my original points...... how many of the export type BB weanling producers are doing it on a part time basis.

throw in autumn calving, high feeding volume, own AI, calving, etc - it all takes time.

Contrast to spring calving (and I know some BB producers will say that they do spring calving also but think most are autumn); Cow calves to limo/easy charlie. let out once weather and grass allow - Bull follows 4 weeks later. next seen in the yard 10 months later... might get a dose mid summer if their lucky:)

I find Autumn calving much better than spring calving and I do both. Most of my autumn calvers are to a BB and the majority of them are left out on grass until they calve unless they are going into December. This means less disease and that i rarely am with them when calving. I have calf creep areas in my slatted sheds which makes it easy to keep calves over the winter. When in the shed, i only allow the calves to suck the cows for an hour twice a day which makes it easier to pick out the cows that are coming in heat. But when i am sure that they are all gone in calf, the calves will have full access to the cows. When spring comes, the autumn calvers are first to grass, they hit the ground running, have extra milk and the calves are able to take the benefits of both extra milk and fresh grass. They are strong and less prone to disease. By the time that I start to feed them meal in July, Grass quality isn't as good and they are weined from the cows. meal gives them a second burst of growth and they are fed until september when they are sold for export (well most of them). It may cost an extra €100 per head to keep them because they are born in Autumn, but I find that they eat less meal, I have more control over the bull that I put them in calf to with AI (I can choose easy calving BB bulls if I want to) and I have them ready for sale when weinlings are usually at their peak price in early September which on average yields €200 more per head profit than a spring born calf.

Dunedin

reilig wrote: »

I find Autumn calving much better than spring calving and I do both. Most of my autumn calvers are to a BB and the majority of them are left out on grass until they calve unless they are going into December. This means less disease and that i rarely am with them when calving. I have calf creep areas in my slatted sheds which makes it easy to keep calves over the winter. When in the shed, i only allow the calves to suck the cows for an hour twice a day which makes it easier to pick out the cows that are coming in heat. But when i am sure that they are all gone in calf, the calves will have full access to the cows. When spring comes, the autumn calvers are first to grass, they hit the ground running, have extra milk and the calves are able to take the benefits of both extra milk and fresh grass. They are strong and less prone to disease. By the time that I start to feed them meal in July, Grass quality isn't as good and they are weined from the cows. meal gives them a second burst of growth and they are fed until september when they are sold for export (well most of them). It may cost an extra €100 per head to keep them because they are born in Autumn, but I find that they eat less meal, I have more control over the bull that I put them in calf to with AI (I can choose easy calving BB bulls if I want to) and I have them ready for sale when weinlings are usually at their peak price in early September which on average yields €200 more per head profit than a spring born calf.

fully agree with all of the above. do you find it much of a challenge doing all this whilst working full time off farm as well?

reilig

Dunedin wrote: »

fully agree with all of the above. do you find it much of a challenge doing all this whilst working full time off farm as well?

Its a challenge allright but I am making a small bit of money out of it so its satisfying. My dad is at home, but he isn't able to handle cattle at his age. Its ok for him to look at them, but anything else with them is done by me. I'm lucky that I have a flexible job that allows me to come and go as I please - just as long as I get the hours in.