Lucinda Creighton - "substance rather than sound-bites"

Elmo

Sorry mods I just think this is Ironic.

Lucinda Creighton spoke at the MacGill Summer School saying she wants less of the sound-bites.

In her address she used such phrases as "Fianna Fáil Light", "cute-hoor politics" and "We need a real ''New Politics'' - of substance rather than sound-bites".

I didn't read her full statement but RTÉ News seemed to pick up all of the sound-bites.

whatawaster

Elmo wrote: »

Sorry mods I just think this is Ironic.

Lucinda Creighton spoke at the MacGill Summer School saying she wants less of the sound-bites.

In her address she used such phrases as "Fianna Fáil Light", "cute-hoor politics" and "We need a real ''New Politics'' - of substance rather than sound-bites".

I didn't read her full statement but RTÉ News seemed to pick up all of the sound-bites.

I remember she was on the frontline, debating with a young FF TD from my own constituency. She was so out of her depth it was frightening. He was clueless too, but she was worse.

Sergeant

I think this is a reminder to Kenny that the dissidents haven't gone away. The relationship between them (Kenny and Creighton) is reportedly broken beyond repair.

It also shows the ideological differences that exist between the two wings of FG. One being the largely rural, FF-Lite, eating their dinner in the middle of the day sort. Parish pump politics.

The other being the younger, socially liberal, economically conservative wing. These differences have been around since FitzGerald became leader. It could be said that there is more difference in ideology in FG, than there is between a lot of FG and FF bankbenchers.

If she truly wants a seachange in Irish politics then herself, Varadkar, Hayes, Deasy et al should create their own political party, free of civil war baggage. Be honest with the people, tell them you intend to cut public sector pay, advocate small government, cut the quangos.

It just might bite. But probably just handier to wait for the one ministerial term and collect the pension.

Shame.

Elmo

Sergeant wrote: »

The other being the younger, socially liberal, economically conservative wing. These differences have been around since FitzGerald became leader. It could be said that there is more difference in ideology in FG, than there is between a lot of FG and FF bankbenchers.

I always think neo-liberals are at war with themselves social liberal yet economically conservative!

These young people eating dinner at night, that can't be healthy for you and their forays into rural Ireland when they obviously don't know where the parish pump is :rolleyes: typical urban rural divide rhetoric.

Anyway my OP was just to point the irony that her sound bites were picked up not her "call to change".

Sergeant

Elmo wrote: »

I always think neo-liberals are at war with themselves social liberal yet economically conservative!

These young people eating dinner at night, that can't be healthy for you and their forays into rural Ireland when they obviously don't know where the parish pump is :rolleyes: typical urban rural divide rhetoric.

Anyway my OP was just to point the irony that her sound bites were picked up not her "call to change".

I won't get into a debate about how easy it is to be socially liberal and economically conservative. Entire forum for such discussions.

As for parish pump politics, I may be naive, but I aspire to live in a country where TD's spend time in parliament, being parliamentarians, rather than going to funerals, opening community centres and shaking hands at county finals.

Sully

While she makes some good points, in reality I think herself and other "rebels" within the party shouting out in the media (getting lots of attention, which I am sure they love) are damaging the party and thus damaging her own career. Kenny was right to give them the boot, no place for such on the front bench and I think its safe to say we all knew this wouldn't shut them up. At the same time, you cant have people like this on the front bench.

Iv came across many young politicans with the "I will not pretend" line who feel that coming out and shouting when they have a problem to the press and the locals will do them good because they are being honest. The reality is, you will find most people would prefer they got on with their jobs of serving the people in the areas they are elected in the best way possible and stopped taking time to knock what they like/dislike about their party but instead be part of the team that should be getting this country back on its feet and working again.

The best place for dealing with internal issues is inside behind closed doors. Thrash it out, work out an agreement and try put the crap behind so the party can move on as united as possible and fix this country.

Perhaps the rebels need to look at their own role in the FG party problems. They cant all be down to one man - I personally see a huge amount of blame being laid on the party as a whole. Sooner they see that and work together to address the problems and move on - the better for FG and for the country.

jmayo

whatawaster wrote: »

I remember she was on the frontline, debating with a young FF TD from my own constituency. She was so out of her depth it was frightening. He was clueless too, but she was worse.

A lot of people appear to have a high opinion of her, not quiet as high a one as she does. :rolleyes:

Sergeant wrote: »

...
If she truly wants a seachange in Irish politics then herself, Varadkar, Hayes, Deasy et al should create their own political party, free of civil war baggage.
...

Now that would be one party that would last all of one meeting.

What would it be called, the EGO party perhaps ?

She doesn't want a seachange in Irish politics no more than deasy does.
The only change they want is Kenny gone, because he would not give them the jobs they feel they deserve.

deasy would pick a fight and have a whinge in a lift on his own.
He inherited more from his father than just the seat.
Rather than trying to ensure another FG TD gets elected in Waterford, he is doing his damnest to scupper the party.

Whatever about Varadker and maybe Hayes having differing economic believes to the leadership, the two loudest complainers about Kenny are doing so purely out of revenge for not being chosen.
She never got over the fact Kenny balled her out at some parliamentary party.

Denerick

Lucinda Creighton is a horrible person, really. Like all the other young bastards in the FG party (Think Varadkar) Blindingly ambitious and self serving. Smug. Bitchy. I can't stand them. Represent everything bad that came out of the Celtic Tiger generation.

And to think they're our 'intelligentsia'! Mealy mouthed morons who emerged from the student politics scene. God help us.

trapsagenius

jmayo wrote: »

A lot of people appear to have a high opinion of her, not quiet as high a one as she does. :rolleyes:

Actually jmayo, I'm with you on this one.Could never stand Creighton and I think Kenny is right to keep her on the sidelines.She's far, far too brash.She was first elected in 2007 FFS and the way she goes on you'd swear she was one of the senior figures in FG with decades of experience behind her.

Denerick wrote: »

Lucinda Creighton is a horrible person, really. Like all the other young bastards in the FG party (Think Varadkar) Blindingly ambitious and self serving. Smug. Bitchy. I can't stand them. Represent everything bad that came out of the Celtic Tiger generation.

See above about Creighton.Don't mind Varadkar-I actually rate him quite highly.Maybe a bit brash as well, but there's a down side to everyone.

jmayo

trapsagenius wrote: »

Actually jmayo, I'm with you on this one.Could never stand Creighton and I think Kenny is right to keep her on the sidelines.She's far, far too brash.She was first elected in 2007 FFS and the way she goes on you'd swear she was one of the senior figures in FG with decades of experience behind her.


See above about Creighton.Don't mind Varadkar-I actually rate him quite highly.Maybe a bit brash as well, but there's a down side to everyone.

Jeeze now I am getting worried, you are agreeing with me. :eek:

She like another female Mayo politican someone that I would gladly see the back of.

It just makes me laugh everytime I hear someone bleating on about how smart she is. It's almost as bad as people talking up a certain finance minister
Her appearance on that Frontline show highlighted her for what she is.
Sometimes I reckon the only reason she is ever dragged out is to improve the talent coefficient.

As for deasy ahhh.
The guy is an eejit and if Nelson Mandela or God almighty was the leader he would still be whinging and sh** stirring.
The smoking ban tantrum showed him for the jerk he is.

Varadker has something about him and he does appear fairly smart, but sometimes I think he is either naive, wet behind the ears or just plain arrogant.
His Garrett remarks have made him no friends with older party members I bet.

jackcee

In fact, there are quite a number of young TDs who have a huge amount of potential - and will start coming through in the next few years.

But one thing is for sure - Creighton is not one of them.

She is some opportunist though - although, I feel that she is becoming more and more exposed as somebody with absolutely nothing to offer, apart from brass neck.

As for the suggestion of she being a core member of some new party - not a chance. It is quite extraordinary how clueless she is on so many fronts. As I said, most of the young TDs are quite bright and well-informed. She is simply up to the standard of her peers.

sesna

Both herself and Varadkar have ability and could have had a good future. She totally f*ucked up - first of all with her little paper interview lsat November in the Star proclaiming she would never meet Enda Kenny for a drink, and now this pointless remark against her own party purely motivated by the certainty of her being banished to back benches following the leadership heave - also I have never heard her speak out against FF, only against her own party or leader. She is probably right in what she said, but a pity someone else with a bit of credibility did not say it, as from her its just another division in the party and a go at the leadership

Promising careers stunted, you do not see this from newer breed of FF deputies like Calleary; Tom Byrne (Lucy pal of her famous Frontline perforamnce); Dara O Brien, Michael Mcgrath; Creegan, Niall Collins etc, and they in FF have had to take alot of flack lately.

I think her problem is like that of many female (sorry) barristers who think they know it all, never really practice but hang their parchment over the mantlepiece to gaze up at it. Lucinda always strikes me as one of those undesirable products of the Celtic Tiger - all mé féin sense of entitlement, obsessed with personal advancement, but with little loyalty and no substance.

SoupyNorman

Creighton, brave and naive it would seem. If a political revolt within the party could not make a change for the better then I (a lowly peasant) can see she will/has fail/ed and miserably at that.

I agree with the OP, the parts of the speech broadcast were absolutely awful..."extending the biscuit tin" in reference to asking for donations. What is wrong with just saying 'asking for donations from developers'.

FG are in an awful state, given the current popularity of FF becoming the no.1 party should have been like shooting fish in a barrel but instead FG have the fish in the barrel alright, it's just they are trying to grab the fish out by hand.

Vladidim

Oh no, what has that idiot LoseEnda Cretin done now ??

thebaldsoprano

Elmo wrote: »

In her address she used such phrases as "Fianna Fáil Light", "cute-hoor politics" and "We need a real ''New Politics'' - of substance rather than sound-bites".

I didn't read her full statement but RTÉ News seemed to pick up all of the sound-bites.

The full statement can be found here, it's actually a good read. I'd love to see some younger politicians with ideals gain prominence given what we've been dealt to date.

The sooner Kenny is gone the better - we might get a slightly broader choice than between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.

sesna

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

The sooner Kenny is gone the better - we might get a slightly broader choice than between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.

Give us break, FG might get Hayes or Coveney as leader then! :pac:

jmayo

sesna wrote: »

Both herself and Varadkar have ability and could have had a good future. She totally f*ucked up - first of all with her little paper interview lsat November in the Star proclaiming she would never meet Enda Kenny for a drink, and now this pointless remark against her own party purely motivated by the certainty of her being banished to back benches following the leadership heave - also I have never heard her speak out against FF, only against her own party or leader. She is probably right in what she said, but a pity someone else with a bit of credibility did not say it, as from her its just another division in the party and a go at the leadership

Promising careers stunted, you do not see this from newer breed of FF deputies like Calleary; Tom Byrne (Lucy pal of her famous Frontline perforamnce); Dara O Brien, Michael Mcgrath; Creegan, Niall Collins etc, and they in FF have had to take alot of flack lately.

I think her problem is like that of many female (sorry) barristers who think they know it all, never really practice but hang their parchment over the mantlepiece to gaze up at it. Lucinda always strikes me as one of those undesirable products of the Celtic Tiger - all mé féin sense of entitlement, obsessed with personal advancement, but with little loyalty and no substance.

Agree with everything bar your first line.
She doesn't have ability, well apart from shouting her mouth off.
Varadker is a much better performer even if a little prone to also shouting his mouth off.

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

The full statement can be found here, it's actually a good read. I'd love to see some younger politicians with ideals gain prominence given what we've been dealt to date.

The sooner Kenny is gone the better - we might get a slightly broader choice than between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.

Actually the whole heave against Kenny highlighted just how weak some of the new wave of FGers are.
Before that I thought that some of the front bench, and the more media friendly ones had more about them, but Enda and big Phil actually showed them up.

Coveney is not great, he has the expensive education, but I have seen him really tripped up in interviews.
Hayes is not the great shining light some think either.
Varadker appears to know his stuff but he just appears to also have the ability to rub people up the wrong way.
Bruton may know his financial theory but that's about it.
He isn't tough enough and that was visible in a couple of debates long before the heave really showed him up.

Who has showed potential over the last year ?
Well for me one of the few has been Reilly.
He is either loyal or knows which is better bet.
Either way it shows he has something more than the whiners.
His comments about george lee were very telling as well.
Now whether he can transfer his undoubted knowledge of Health to other areas is the only question.

Noonan is still a strong performer and is way better option on the front bench than the young guns that have such high opinions of themselves.

wiseguy

Sergeant wrote: »

I think this is a reminder to Kenny that the dissidents haven't gone away. The relationship between them (Kenny and Creighton) is reportedly broken beyond repair.

It also shows the ideological differences that exist between the two wings of FG. One being the largely rural, FF-Lite, eating their dinner in the middle of the day sort. Parish pump politics.

The other being the younger, socially liberal, economically conservative wing. These differences have been around since FitzGerald became leader. It could be said that there is more difference in ideology in FG, than there is between a lot of FG and FF bankbenchers.

If she truly wants a seachange in Irish politics then herself, Varadkar, Hayes, Deasy et al should create their own political party, free of civil war baggage. Be honest with the people, tell them you intend to cut public sector pay, advocate small government, cut the quangos.

It just might bite. But probably just handier to wait for the one ministerial term and collect the pension.

Shame.

Very good post, completely agree

Ireland needs a younger, socially liberal, economically conservative party.

FG are a walking disaster lately and they are not even in power.

P. Breathnach

wiseguy wrote: »

... Ireland needs a younger, socially liberal, economically conservative party....

Like the PDs? They made a significant contribution to economic policy during the last two administrations. and reaped their proper reward: obloquy.

They have been almost forgotten in a fairly short time, and now people of PD mindset are hoping FG will become the new PDs.

simonj

Sergeant wrote: »

It also shows the ideological differences that exist between the two wings of FG.

FG has always had an inner conflict between what in Europe could best be described as a social democratic side vs a christian democratic side.

I'll give Dep. Creighton one thing, she has more balls than the men in the party standing up against taking large sums of money from a discredited golden circle.

But people like her and Varadkar, non-dynastic and progressive deputies, should simply drop the whip and become independents (as George Lee should have done when he found he could make no impact on the established political FG machine)

Or - if they really want change, as I have said before, look at alternatives away from civil war politics like Fis Nua or Amhran Nua

Denerick

simonj wrote: »

Or - if they really want change, as I have said before, look at alternatives away from civil war politics like Fis Nua or Amhran Nua

lol

SoupyNorman

Loose mouth Lucy posted this on her blog.

A very boring retraction but this is rather humorous:

They demand straight talk from politicians and condemn the mealy-mouthed ‘political speak’ to which we have all become accustomed. However, when a politician tries to speak openly and honestly about the serious matter of standards in public life the media going scurrying for cover.

Her speech contained the usual mealy mouthed political speak.

simonj

Whatever about the stupid sexist/silly woman/blonde remarks that seem to be the recourse for many, Creighton is right - and shows more balls than the men of the party by stating the obvious, that we cannot have a new start with bribes - sorry - 'donations' from the NAMA backed developers.

Fair play to her IMO

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

The full statement can be found here

The sooner Kenny is gone the better - we might get a slightly broader choice than between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.

Good one - but surely you mean Tweedle Dumb, Tweedle Dumber

FlutterinBantam

Pyrrhic victory for Kenny in my opinion.


Only a matter of time.... a shortish time.

sesna

jmayo wrote: »

Agree with everything bar your first line.
She doesn't have ability, well apart from shouting her mouth off.
Varadker is a much better performer even if a little prone to also shouting his mouth off.

Agreed - I actually had thought about that after I posted, and was in the processing of editing that line about her ability, before deciding to just leave it !

thebaldsoprano

jmayo wrote: »

Actually the whole heave against Kenny highlighted just how weak some of the new wave of FGers are.
Before that I thought that some of the front bench, and the more media friendly ones had more about them, but Enda and big Phil actually showed them up.

Predictably, Kenny isn't returning the donation that Creighton was questioning. This developer owes NAMA - ie us, nearly one billion and somehow has enough spare cash for a junket at the K-Club.

The younger FG politicians are far from perfect, but they don't seem to be in with developers/banks/PS unions that are holding the country to ransom. Remember that thanks to Kenny, FG also voted for that damned bank guarantee scheme that has led to us pissing 20 billion down the Anglo black hole.

A junket may seem small, but with FF it started relatively small as well - a few grand in a brown envelope here and there. Then we had the likes of the e-voting and PPARS debacles, which were a blatant waste of taxpayers' money, but FF carried on as normal. We all know where it went from there...

The last thing we need is for Kenny to get into power and lead us down this road all over again, especially if Labour are in coalition with him. The younger FG politicians the only glimmer of hope I can see that might get us out of this mess.

Sully

According to reports in todays paper, Lucinda has been on the receiving end of political donations from developers herself with a possibility of one heading towards NAMA.

thebaldsoprano

Sully wrote: »

According to reports in todays paper, Lucinda has been on the receiving end of political donations from developers herself with a possibility of one heading towards NAMA.

Link?

Just when I was getting slightly optimistic...

themont85

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

Predictably, Kenny isn't returning the donation that Creighton was questioning. This developer owes NAMA - ie us, nearly one billion and somehow has enough spare cash for a junket at the K-Club.

The younger FG politicians are far from perfect, but they don't seem to be in with developers/banks/PS unions that are holding the country to ransom. Remember that thanks to Kenny, FG also voted for that damned bank guarantee scheme that has led to us pissing 20 billion down the Anglo black hole.

A junket may seem small, but with FF it started relatively small as well - a few grand in a brown envelope here and there. Then we had the likes of the e-voting and PPARS debacles, which were a blatant waste of taxpayers' money, but FF carried on as normal. We all know where it went from there...

The last thing we need is for Kenny to get into power and lead us down this road all over again, especially if Labour are in coalition with him. The younger FG politicians the only glimmer of hope I can see that might get us out of this mess.

Has this developer been declared bankrupt? His loans going into NAMA isn't the same thing. Just because his loans are in NAMA now doesn't mean he cannot repay them.

Qualitymark

Creighton has said what every politician should be saying, and acting on: it's time for honest dealing and an end to cosy links between developers and politicians.

Elmo

Qualitymark wrote: »

Creighton has said what every politician should be saying, and acting on: it's time for honest dealing and an end to cosy links between developers and politicians.

It disturbing to see so many people falling for LC's sound-bites. I was pointing out the irony with my initial post. LC might say developers but she knows who she will line up with in the future and I won't be very surprised when they don't seem as sound as many may think, just like the developers.

Denerick

Qualitymark wrote: »

Creighton has said what every politician should be saying, and acting on: it's time for honest dealing and an end to cosy links between developers and politicians.

Yes, but everyone knows that Creighton is only saying that to whore herself in front of the media. She really does assume we are ****ing idiots. No-one is buying her mealy mouthed publicity stunts.

thebaldsoprano

themont85 wrote: »

Has this developer been declared bankrupt? His loans going into NAMA isn't the same thing.

Where the devil did I suggest that?

Just because his loans are in NAMA now doesn't mean he cannot repay them.

True, but I'd like to know if these loans are performing. He's had no problem getting a clarification like this issued but doesn't seem to have disclosed anything about the loans, unlike Paddy McKillen.

If these loans aren't performing, then maybe taxpayers should take precedence over K-Club junkets.

thebaldsoprano

Elmo wrote: »

It disturbing to see so many people falling for LC's sound-bites. I was pointing out the irony with my initial post.

Elmo wrote: »

I didn't read her full statement but RTÉ News seemed to pick up all of the sound-bites.

There were undoubtedly soundbites in the speech, but if you don't read it then they're all you're likely to pick up on. The press are rather good at that.

Whatever about Creighton's motives, the speech is actually a good read.

Elmo

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

There were undoubtedly soundbites in the speech, but if you don't read it then they're all you're likely to pick up on. The press are rather good at that.

Whatever about Creighton's motives, the speech is actually a good read.

I read it, I found it similar to many things I have read before.

sickofwaiting

What exactly is people here's problem with Creighton? She is a politician that has had the guts to come out and say in public and say exactly what people on here have been saying for the last 2 years. It seems she is a politician who is actually serious about wanting to cut out the corruption and make the country and a better place which is more than could be said for the rest of the twats in the Dail.

She could just coast it in the backbenches and take home the handy money for nothing like the rest of them but put she has put herself out there. It might even cost her her seat at the next election if FG screw her over for rocking the boat.

So can someone explain exactly what is the problem they have with Creighton and what they would prefer she did?

Sully

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

Link?

Just when I was getting slightly optimistic...

It was in one of the Sunday Papers I was flicking about yesterday. Think it may have been the Daily Mail. Ill root it out and scan the article in.

Qualitymark

Sully wrote: »

It was in one of the Sunday Papers I was flicking about yesterday. Think it may have been the Daily Mail. Ill root it out and scan the article in.

Waiting with interest. I know nothing about Creighton; for all I know, she may be the black-hearted, duplicitous villain portrayed here, but it would be nice to see some evidence.

What shocks me is that all politicians are not saying "No more deals with developers, no more crooked planners".

But in a country with politicians paid so much more than the average wage, perhaps we can't expect anything else.

thegoodgirl

Having read the full speech I agree with everything she says. Of course she has certain aspects in there that were sure to get people talking but that's what has to be done these days in order to get people to listen.

Would any of you have read her speech if you hadn't heard these sound bites on RTE.

I wish other politicans would take a leaf out of her books and actaully criticise an obviously broken political system.

Kenny should nourish his back benchers and kisten to their opions not stiffle them.

Sully

The question behind all of this is; If we block such donations, how do political parties fund themselves?

Qualitymark

Sully wrote: »

The question behind all of this is; If we block such donations, how do political parties fund themselves?

Maybe the TDs could donate three-quarters of their wages (edit: and expenses) to their party

Sully, he who pays the piper calls the tune. The reason we're in such a mess is that political parties have been dancing to the tune of the developers and industrialists who fund them, not to the voters they're supposed to serve.

Denerick

sickofwaiting wrote: »

What exactly is people here's problem with Creighton? She is a politician that has had the guts to come out and say in public and say exactly what people on here have been saying for the last 2 years. It seems she is a politician who is actually serious about wanting to cut out the corruption and make the country and a better place which is more than could be said for the rest of the twats in the Dail.

She could just coast it in the backbenches and take home the handy money for nothing like the rest of them but put she has put herself out there. It might even cost her her seat at the next election if FG screw her over for rocking the boat.

So can someone explain exactly what is the problem they have with Creighton and what they would prefer she did?

Because she is sickingly ambitious and a media whore. She has no principles her only motivation is to bitch and moan from her wing of the party. She is hoping that if she keeps the anti Kenny bitching alive, and Kennys ratings continue to go down, they'll have another heave in September with her getting on Brutons front bech. Thats the motivation here, don't be fooled by the illusion of political virtue. I know exactly the kind of person she is, a graduate from the TCD student politics circuit. It makes me want to vomit, all these manouevres.

thebaldsoprano

Elmo wrote: »

I read it, I found it similar to many things I have read before.

True, it did have a lot of the usual devices, but it was a lot more open than yer usual political speech.

I have to admit that the way Creighton plays the media has me a bit on edge as well. She reminds me a lot of Bertie in this regard. He played the whole 'Regular Joe who likes his few pints and Man U' image very well. In reality though, he was well in with the developers who were screwing this 'Regular Joe'. Creighton seems to be developing a very well crafted image as well, time will tell how real it is I guess.

Sergeant

Denerick wrote: »

Because she is sickingly ambitious and a media whore. She has no principles her only motivation is to bitch and moan from her wing of the party. She is hoping that if she keeps the anti Kenny bitching alive, and Kennys ratings continue to go down, they'll have another heave in September with her getting on Brutons front bech. Thats the motivation here, don't be fooled by the illusion of political virtue. I know exactly the kind of person she is, a graduate from the TCD student politics circuit. It makes me want to vomit, all these manouevres.

So what should she do? Remain quite?

All politics is about manoeuvring, it happened in the Roman Senate 2000 years ago, Machiavelli wrote numerous works on it. Kenny was ruthless in selecting his new cabinet.

If anything, she was naive in being so open in her opinions. A whispering campaign might have served her better.

Qualitymark

Maybe she's playing the media; maybe she's just asking for honesty.

thebaldsoprano

Qualitymark wrote: »

Maybe she's playing the media; maybe she's just asking for honesty.

It's a tough one to call, but there seem to be a few posters intent on slating her before all the evidence is in.

In any case, her speech highlighted things that needed to be said - fair play to her.

rightwingdub

I have mixed views on Creighton to be honest, I do believe that she is opportunistic but on the other hand she is determined and she's right to be opposed to Kenny. Kenny stands for nothing and believes in nothing.

Denerick

Sergeant wrote: »

So what should she do? Remain quite?

All politics is about manoeuvring, it happened in the Roman Senate 2000 years ago, Machiavelli wrote numerous works on it. Kenny was ruthless in selecting his new cabinet.

If anything, she was naive in being so open in her opinions. A whispering campaign might have served her better.

I was responding to the suggestion that she was motivated by political and civic virtue. I argue that she is motivated by base political ambition. I do wonder how people can take these pathetic hacks seriously. (And Creighton is one of the best examples of a political hack in the Dáil at the moment. She doesn't even have a relevant party position)

irishh_bob

Denerick wrote: »

I was responding to the suggestion that she was motivated by political and civic virtue. I argue that she is motivated by base political ambition. I do wonder how people can take these pathetic hacks seriously. (And Creighton is one of the best examples of a political hack in the Dáil at the moment. She doesn't even have a relevant party position)

agree , she demonstrates little apart from raw naked ambition , i find the woman quite unpleasant actually

no fan of enda btw