A Warning to ALL TV Buyers. Flood of UK surplus TVs on market.

Sponge Bob

The UK started to turn off its analogue TV in the spring and will continue to do so on a staged basis from now to end 2012 with Northern Ireland among the last areas to phase it out.

UK Retailers responded by pulling analogue TVs from the channel. Sadly it appears that some of these retailers have dumped them on the Irish instead Analogue only TVs will only work for another 2 and bit years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/jul/06/analogue-television-digital-switchover

All the major high street electronics retailers have now stopped selling analogue sets after quietly running down their stocks in recent months, in preparation for the switch to digital terrestrial television (DTT) by 2012.
Last month ( June 2010) , for the first time, there were no sales of analogue TV sets in the UK, according to figures published today by the organisation responsible for helping viewers switch, Digital UK.
With 5 million homes now transferred to a DTT-only signal and 11 million more due to switch by the end of 2011, new analogue TV sets are of little use to viewers.

Here are some key points to note if you are buying a TV from a UK retailer or even from an Irish retailer on 'special offer' . You never know where they got them from.

1. UK and Ireland will turn off analogue at the end of 2012. This means that the tuners in most Irish tellys will no longer work. You will need a box to pick up the digital signal thereafter. If you have a Sky box or UPC cable box you will be fine after 2012.

2. Around 60% of Irish houses can pick up Irish Digital TV today with no effort bar plugging a compliant TV in and tuning it. The crude but effective test is whether you can pick up TV3 by aerial right now. If so a Digital TV signal is available to you.

3. A UK Digital TV is called "Freeview". A UK High Definition Digital TV is called "Freeview HD". ONLY FREEVIEW HD TV's generally work in Ireland and box standard Freeview TVs generally DO NOT( there are exceptions). You will get sound but no picture if it is Freeview only.

4. By end October 2010 around 70% of homes will get digital easily. Another 10% to 15% of homes will pick up Digital if they modify their aerial a bit, generally 10% to 15% these have TG4 already even if they do not have TV3

5. If you ONLY have RTE1 and RTE2 and no or else dismal TV3 and/or TG4 you will need a new aerial.

6. If you are buying a TV or Set top box ( STB) to pick up Irish Digital Television check in the store and ask the shop manager to note on the receipt that you are buying for Digital TV. If it fails to work then bring it back for a refund. Lidl Aldi and Argos are OK like that but Tesco can be sticky.

In a survey I personally carried out on recent stock in Lidl Aldi Argos and Tesco I found that NO LIDL OR ALDI TV will pick up Irish Digital TV. Very few in Argos and Tesco will. The cheaper ones are the worst.

7. Irish Digital TV will be known as "Saorview" and fully compliant TVs and STBs will have a Saorview sticker starting around October . In general a "Freeview HD" branded TV or STB or Recorder will be absolutely fine. Check the model number against this ongoing monitoring thread on Boards or ask about the make and model number.

8. Freesat is not Freeview. Do not ask about Freesat in this thread, nowt to do with it

9. If you find any stores selling "Digital" TVs that do not work here then flag them in this thread along with the model numbers they are peddling to unsuspecting consumers.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

3. A UK Digital TV is called "Freeview". A UK High Definition Digital TV is called "Freeview HD". ONLY FREEVIEW HD TV's generally work in Ireland and box standard Freeview TVs generally DO NOT( there are exceptions). You will get sound but no picture if it is Freeview only.

I was asked to clarify this point by PM. Here are some models in Argos. One should work here and the others probably won't. At least with Argos they will take it back

This TV has "MPEG4 capability. Should work in Ireland.

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/catalogId/1500002251/partNumber/5293850.htm

This one does not mention "MPEG4" and therefore will not work.

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5293647.htm

Will Not Work

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5367858/Trail/searchtext%3ELG.htm



"HD Ready" is utterly meaningless, it must have an MPEG4 decoder built in to work in Ireland and that requirement has been widely known for years.

keithclancy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The UK started to turn off its analogue TV in the spring and will continue to do so on a staged basis from now to end 2012 with Northern Ireland among the last areas to phase it out.

UK Retailers responded by pulling analogue TVs from the channel. Sadly it appears that some of these retailers have dumped them on the Irish instead Analogue only TVs will only work for another 2 and bit years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/jul/06/analogue-television-digital-switchover



Here are some key points to note if you are buying a TV from a UK retailer or even from an Irish retailer on 'special offer' . You never know where they got them from.

1. UK and Ireland will turn off analogue at the end of 2012. This means that the tuners in most Irish tellys will no longer work. You will need a box to pick up the digital signal thereafter. If you have a Sky box or UPC cable box you will be fine after 2012.

2. Around 60% of Irish houses can pick up Irish Digital TV today with no effort bar plugging a compliant TV in and tuning it. The crude but effective test is whether you can pick up TV3 by aerial right now. If so a Digital TV signal is available to you.

3. A UK Digital TV is called "Freeview". A UK High Definition Digital TV is called "Freeview HD". ONLY FREEVIEW HD TV's generally work in Ireland and box standard Freeview TVs generally DO NOT( there are exceptions). You will get sound but no picture if it is Freeview only.

4. By end October 2010 around 70% of homes will get digital easily. Another 10% to 15% of homes will pick up Digital if they modify their aerial a bit, generally 10% to 15% these have TG4 already even if they do not have TV3

5. If you ONLY have RTE1 and RTE2 and no or else dismal TV3 and/or TG4 you will need a new aerial.

6. If you are buying a TV or Set top box ( STB) to pick up Irish Digital Television check in the store and ask the shop manager to note on the receipt that you are buying for Digital TV. If it fails to work then bring it back for a refund. Lidl Aldi and Argos are OK like that but Tesco can be sticky.

In a survey I personally carried out on recent stock in Lidl Aldi Argos and Tesco I found that NO LIDL OR ALDI TV will pick up Irish Digital TV. Very few in Argos and Tesco will. The cheaper ones are the worst.

7. Irish Digital TV will be known as "Saorview" and fully compliant TVs and STBs will have a Saorview sticker starting around October . In general a "Freeview HD" branded TV or STB or Recorder will be absolutely fine. Check the model number against this ongoing monitoring thread on Boards or ask about the make and model number.

8. Freesat is not Freeview. Do not ask about Freesat in this thread, nowt to do with it

9. If you find any stores selling "Digital" TVs that do not work here then flag them in this thread along with the model numbers they are peddling to unsuspecting consumers.

Ugh ..... you do know that there is NO guarantee that the current DVB-T tellys will continue to work with RTE. Its still in a test phase and quite possible that they may use a CAM to allow viewing.

Most TV's sold on the continent are Analog, very few with builtin DVT-T Tuners are sold.

Grumpypants

I would be very surprised if analogue got turned off in 2012 considering freeview hasnt even been rolled out properly here its still only in testing. Allthough that is the plan. But freeview was ment to be up and running by now too.

More than likely you will need to buy a set top box anyway as a large % of TV's here are mpeg2 not mpeg4. People with brand new TV's may still not be able to pick up RTE.

If you have Sky/UPC etc you dont need to worry about this eitherway. But i wonder how they will justify the TV licence for channels you cant pick up.

knipex

Sponge Bob

Am I correct in say that if you are using a Sky Box or UPC box (or free sat box) that buying one of these will make absolutely no difference.

TheDriver

correct knipex, because the box is then doing the tuning etc

Sponge Bob

knipex wrote: »

Am I correct in say that if you are using a Sky Box or UPC box (or free sat box) that buying one of these will make absolutely no difference.

Correct. It is stated in point number 1 above. Around 2/3 housholds pick up a digital signal from SKY or UPC already.

Second Tellys etc often don't have a SKY or UPC feed direct to them. They will require an STB from late 2012 onwards.

Analogue will be switched off in late 2012. The spectrum is required for other uses north and south of the border.

dave1982

Wow this is interesting thank's for posting.How will people get rte etc when analogue is switched off if they have no sky,lets say a tv 5 years old?Will RTE issue box's or something?



I had google and came up with this

DTT Rollout

Progress Towards National Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) Services - Latest Information

Latest Information - RTÉ Irish free to air DTT service set to launch to 90% of population by October 31st 2010

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Eamon Ryan T.D. has signed an Order under the Broadcasting Act, 2009, requiring RTÉ to ensure that their free to air digital television service is operational and available to 90% of the population by 31st October 2010.
This order, Statutory Instrument 85 of 2010, the RTÉ (National Television Multiplex) Order 2010, is available at the following link.

RTÉ has not yet launched it's DTT service. Cosequently there is no Irish DTT service available. The DTT network is currently being built and tested.

RTÉ Networks Limited (RTÉNL) is a subsidiary of RTÉ and is responsible for building RTÉ’s DTT national network. To date, RTÉNL has digitally enabled the 13 main transmitter sites in Ireland and is operating a series of tests from these sites.



Progress on the development of Commercial DTT services

At present there are no commercial DTT operators licensed to provide commercial DTT services in Ireland. The BAI is currently involved in a competitive process and is seeking to contract commercial DTT service providers.

Source =http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/National+DTT/

Sponge Bob

It will on its hole manage 90% coverage on October 31st unless people put monster aerials on their houses in many cases. I refer to point 4

4. By end October 2010 around 70% of homes will get digital easily. Another 10% to 15% of homes will pick up Digital if they modify their aerial a bit

It will reach 90% coverage next year, without monster aerials. RTE have only enabled 20 or so of their planned 50 transmitters to date. Another 5-10 will be live by christmas with 20 to follow in 2011 and 2012.

50 transmitters will not cover everybody but we are concentrating on the 95-98% of the population who will be covered by these 50 transmitters and by 2012 ...as long as they buy the right telly of course

JohnC.

You don't need the right TV. You just need a box. Especially if you want to take advantage of PVR functions.

UrbanSea

It's simple enough. Alot of the tv's still on sale here are not digital ready,however,you're retailer will be more than happy to tell you which ones are and aren't. Those of which that have MPEG4 as stated,are digital ready.

delllat

greetings wrote: »

It's simple enough. Alot of the tv's still on sale here are not digital ready,however,you're retailer will be more than happy to tell you which ones are and aren't. Those of which that have MPEG4 as stated,are digital ready.

the retailers will be getting rid of the old ones ASAP

if u dont ask for the modern version they will probably give u an "old" one and u will be forced to use a box to make it fully functional

keithclancy

delllat wrote: »

the retailers will be getting rid of the old ones ASAP

if u dont ask for the modern version they will probably give u an "old" one and u will be forced to use a box to make it fully functional

Helllooooo !!!

as an example Holland ONLY broadcasts on Digital, and TV's still come with an Analog Tuner.

I bought my Samsung TV in Media markt and it came with an Analog Tuner !!!!

Analog TV's will still be around long after Ireland goes Digital, just like in Belgium, Germany, France etc.

Jesus .. the world does not revolve around the tiny island ffs

You can buy a DVB-T Set top box anyway for 30 euros later on if you need it.

keithclancy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It will on its hole manage 90% coverage on October 31st unless people put monster aerials on their houses in many cases. I refer to point 4



It will reach 90% coverage next year, without monster aerials. RTE have only enabled 20 or so of their planned 50 transmitters to date. Another 5-10 will be live by christmas with 20 to follow in 2011 and 2012.

50 transmitters will not cover everybody but we are concentrating on the 95-98% of the population who will be covered by these 50 transmitters and by 2012 ...as long as they buy the right telly of course

They'll easily manage 90% with FTA Satelite:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485

RangeR

keithclancy wrote: »

They'll easily manage 90% with FTA Satelite:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485

That is a different tech. We are talking about digital switchover to DTT ONLY.

keithclancy

RangeR wrote: »

That is a different tech. We are talking about digital switchover to DTT ONLY.

Indeed, but its down the same path as the UK,

DVB-T for the populated areas.
DVB-S for the sparse areas on spot beam.

Same service on both, and you can get TV's with DVB-S tuners builtin as well.

I built a media center and stuck in a Hauppauge DVR-4000 Sat card that does DVB-S DVB-T and Analog +FM ... I don't need to use the tuner in the TV because you can't record from it

Sponge Bob

Point number 8.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

8. Freesat is not Freeview. Do not ask about Freesat in this thread, nowt to do with it

You cannot receive RTE on Freesat. We are discussing so called TV sets that are not capable of receiving terrestrial signals not satellite signals.

Digital Television 101 is a device that can:

1. Tune to a Digital (aka DTT or DVB-T) Signal and connect to an aerial to help the tuning.
2. Deliver sound to user
3. Deliver picture to user.

Anything else is not a Digital Television.

It is perhaps a Digital MONITOR that shows a picture/audio sent to it by a box or computer.

It should not be sold as a Digital TV. Period.End of.Full stop !!!!

keithclancy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Point number 8.



You cannot receive RTE on Freesat. We are discussing so called TV sets that are not capable of receiving terrestrial signals not satellite signals.

Digital Television 101 is a device that can:

1. Tune to a Digital (aka DTT or DVB-T) Signal and connect to an aerial to help the tuning.
2. Deliver sound to user
3. Deliver picture to user.

Anything else is not a Digital Television.

It is perhaps a Digital MONITOR that shows a picture/audio sent to it by a box or computer.

It should not be sold as a Digital TV. Period.End of.Full stop !!!!

Did you even read the other thread.

Saorsat, being setup by RTE for Free to Air Irish Channels on a spot beam over Ireland, its completely seperate to Freesat carried on Astra 28.2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saorsat

Supposed to go live at some point next year.

A TV capable of recieving Digital TV everywhere else (Not Ireland) recieves DVB-S, DVB-T, or even DVB-Ci with a CAM, the last one isn't sold in Ireland as its not allowed to use cams with UPC, however nearly everywhere else it is.

TV's with DVB-S Tuners builtin aren't sold in Ireland on a large scale because there is not Freesat equivolent there yet.

Example:
http://www.expert.nl/televisie/led-tv/samsung-ue40c6800?utm_source=Affiliate&utm_medium=Productfeed&utm_campaign=Conversive

Digital TV here sold with all four tuners builtin.

My point being that there is no "Future Proof" tuner for a TV, for example they brought out TV's here with builting DVB-T Tuners (MPEG4) but then KPN the incumbent enabled encryption but lots of the TV's didn't have the capability to accept CAMS(Card that slots in the side to accept an encryption card) hence the Terretrial TV tuner became useless.

Rare that anyone here buys a TV for the builtin Tuner.

My TV has an Analog and DVB-C Tuner .. but theres no bloody cam for it to use with my cable provider (UPC) ..not that I would use it anyway

Scan Man

Why didn't someone tell people about this? I've got Sky Digital so I'm ok, but there's probably thousands of people out there that haven't a clue that this change is happening. I never heard it mentioned, except on UK television channels an odd time.

I'd always wondered why I could no longer pick up TV3 using a analogue portable I've had for the last few years but could get RTE1 and 2.

slimjimmc

Scan Man wrote: »

Why didn't someone tell people about this? I've got Sky Digital so I'm ok, but there's probably thousands of people out there that haven't a clue that this change is happening. I never heard it mentioned, except on UK television channels an odd time.

I'd always wondered why I could no longer pick up TV3 using a analogue portable I've had for the last few years but could get RTE1 and 2.

TV3 is broadcast on analogue so you should be able to receive it on the portable if you're within range of a RTÉ transmitter. Your reception problem is not related to DTT or Digital TVs.

Sponge Bob

I repeat point 2 above

2. Around 60% of Irish houses can pick up Irish Digital TV today with no effort bar plugging a compliant TV in and tuning it. The crude but effective test is whether you can pick up TV3 by aerial right now. If so a Digital TV signal is available to you.

His problem is not lack of TV3 it is the lack of TG4 which is around 50% more widely available than TV3 who refuse to pay for national coverage and are only broadcast from around 12 - 15 transmitters.

It indicates he has a VHF aerial only ( the H shaped one) possibly even a rather ancient one or that the rabbit ears on the portable are VHF only or that the TV has no UHF tuner but can only tune VHF ( rather unlikely) , VHF is the analogue band in which RTE is generally broadcast.

He must receive from one of the transmitters on page one of the first doc below. It tells him what 'band' UHF aerial to get in addition. There is no such thing as a 'digital aerial' only a UHF aerial.

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/television-frequencies.pdf

also

http://www.tvtrade.ie/analogue-tv-aerial-selection-guide.html

Finally

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/Receiving%20DTT%20%28May%2010%29.pdf

He needs a UHF aerial to pick up TV3 or TG4 analogue. This aerial will also be used for Digital TV.

The 'H' aerials will all be scrap in 2013 unless you also use them to pick up FM radio.

UrbanSea

delllat wrote: »

the retailers will be getting rid of the old ones ASAP

if u dont ask for the modern version they will probably give u an "old" one and u will be forced to use a box to make it fully functional

A good few of the tv's on the market here aren't digital ready,and I say it to customers about which tv's have MPEG4. Most of them don't even know what I'm on about.

Sponge Bob

greetings wrote: »

A good few of the tv's on the market here aren't digital ready,and I say it to customers about which tv's have MPEG4. Most of them don't even know what I'm on about.

You can tell them which ones will stop receiving RTE/TV3/TG4 in 2 and a 1/2 years and which ones won't , that should get their attention. Analogue absolutely has to be turned off in the Northwest ( a done deal with the UK over spectrum) whereas it could be left on in Kerry for example.

UrbanSea

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You can tell them which ones will stop receiving RTE/TV3/TG4 in 2 and a 1/2 years and which ones won't , that should get their attention. Analogue absolutely has to be turned off in the Northwest ( a done deal with the UK over spectrum) whereas it could be left on in Kerry for example.

So will the channels still be available on analogue for a while once it's introduced before being phased out totally?

Sponge Bob

Truskmore has been broadcasting digital ( mpeg4 of course) since 2009. It will be formally launched in 3 months by ministerial order. Analogue turnoff is December 2012.

Sponge Bob

Tesco are ( and will continue to be) selling UK only gear in Ireland, this thread concerns a "Cello" model that will not work in Ireland.

Sponge Bob

Aldi are dumping another of these UK compliant TVs through their shops.

Let me be clear. This will not decode an Irish Digital TV Signal. Not now, not never.

They are being more circumspect than before and are not claiming it will. It will, however, work as an analogue TV with USB recording for two years and as a DVD player thereafter.

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_14707.htm

astrofool

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Aldi are dumping another of these UK compliant TVs through their shops.

Let me be clear. This will not decode an Irish Digital TV Signal. Not now, not never.

They are being more circumspect than before and are not claiming it will. It will, however, work as an analogue TV with USB recording for two years and as a DVD player thereafter.

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_14707.htm

or perfectly fine on UPC/Sky/digital box

Jev/N

Fair play for the posts but I don't see the big issue (besides the false advertisements)... I bought my TV from the North in full knowledge it wasn't compliant for DTT but couldn't have cared less due to having a digital sub, not to mention that I could buy a decoder if I needed it anyways.

Sponge Bob

Because many of these TVs are not even sold in the UK any more, simply dumped here where over half of the population do not realise that they will cease to work in 2012. In May 2010 no analogue only TVs were sold in the UK and yet the same chains are still selling them here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10535663

Then there is the freeview rubbish.

channelsurfer2

yes aldi should really be done for false advertising with a big digital logo on their brochures for this tv.
except is uk digital tv not saorview the irish version. if you bought one of these and rely on an aerial for your tv reception then you will have to fork out another 100euro in 2012 for a decoder box just for the pleasure of having rte via your aerial.

the_syco

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

if you bought one of these and rely on an aerial for your tv reception then you will have to fork out another 100euro in 2012 for a decoder box just for the pleasure of having rte via your aerial.

So... if you buy a TV cheaply, it'll cost you at a later stage? Makes sense. But if you just want the TV to view SKY, XBOX, etc, they'll do fine.

Also, any news on an Irish digital coming about? The last two I heard about failed.

astrofool

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Because many of these TVs are not even sold in the UK any more, simply dumped here where over half of the population do not realise that they will cease to work in 2012. In May 2010 no analogue only TVs were sold in the UK and yet the same chains are still selling them here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10535663

Then there is the freeview rubbish.

We're 2 or 3 years behind the UK in the changeover to digital, it's reasonable to assume that analogue tv's can be sold here 2-3 years longer than the UK as well.

And stop saying "cease to work" it's just wrong.

channelsurfer2

the_syco wrote: »

So... if you buy a TV cheaply, it'll cost you at a later stage? Makes sense. But if you just want the TV to view SKY, XBOX, etc, they'll do fine.

Also, any news on an Irish digital coming about? The last two I heard about failed.

technical test launch is october31st this year... full launch to public early to late 2011 with switch off late 2012 of analogue... no commercial muxes will launch only mux 1 and 2 with rte and tv3(possibly no tv3 until dec2012). if you have an mpeg4 tv and an aerial you can watch rtenl's HD test transmission which looks impressive now.

Sponge Bob

astrofool wrote: »

We're 2 or 3 years behind the UK in the changeover to digital, it's reasonable to assume that analogue tv's can be sold here 2-3 years longer than the UK as well.

We will turn off analogue same time as the UK, in two years time. 3 years may be pushing it do you not think?

And stop saying "cease to work" it's just wrong.

It is correct, in two years time you no longer have a television, you just have an overpriced monitor with a junk tuner. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that a proper television will do the job for longer than 2 years.

astrofool

Sponge Bob wrote: »

We will turn off analogue same time as the UK, in two years time. 3 years may be pushing it do you not think?



It is correct, in two years time you no longer have a television, you just have an overpriced monitor with a junk tuner. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that a proper television will do the job for longer than 2 years.

So, all over the country, 95% of televisions will "cease to work" when they turn off digital in 2 years time?

95% of the population will not have a TV when they turn off analogue?

Stop being sensationalist, people will buy a box to use, or most will continue happily using Sky/UPC and not have a clue that analogue has ceased to work, turning their TV into junk....

Sponge Bob

astrofool wrote: »

So, all over the country, 95% of televisions will "cease to work" when they turn off digital in 2 years time?95% of the population will not have a TV when they turn off analogue?

You are the one who pulled this 95% number out of his hole, I never said that 95% of televisions would cease working in 2 years.

Apart from that 95% of televisions in the state are not used with a UPC or SKY receiver box today nor will they be in 2012 so don't bother pulling that one out of the same place you pulled the other 95% either

Read the first post again, and read it carefully this time.

astrofool

Whether that figure is 5% or 50% or 95%, those TV's will not "cease to work", it will not make all old TV's useless, it does not mean that buying a new TV that doesn't work with the system useless.

It means that people who have a TV without an MPEG4 digital tuner and currently use an aerial will have to use an STB in the future. That's the extent of it, we don't need to go scaremongering.

Comments like this:

It will, however, work as an analogue TV with USB recording for two years and as a DVD player thereafter.

Do not help anyone (and is where I responded to you initially in this thread).

Sponge Bob

The Digotal ( aka DTT aka saorview) service was formally launched today.

I note that certain advertisers, eg DID Electric are not claiming that an Mpeg2 unit is a TV anymore. They use the euphemism 'LCD' instead , eg this device which does not have Mpeg4

They are also showing mpeg4 when present, eg this other device ....note the word "TV" is present in this ad and not the other...I have no issue with it being used as long as it shows a DTT Picture broadcast by RTE.

Sponge Bob

Aldi, who are yet to sell a single compliant TV in Ireland ( same as Lidl ) are now giving customers their money back.

If sold with a 3 Year Guarantee and a 'digital' tuner of any sort then the TV could have been bought any time since 1 November 2007, you can get the full money back on it.

If sold with a 2 year guarantee that would be 1 November 2008.

The same EU directive for getting your money back applies to most Tesco TVs, many Curry and PC World TVs ( with small screens) and Argos tellys. This applies EVEN if a 1 year guarantee has run out.

It does not apply to analogue only TVs only those with a digital tuner sold in this country and unable to pick up and decode an Irish TV signal.

The usual giveaway is that you hear sound and see channel names and radio station names but cannot see a picture, nor will you ever.
From this recent post on Techtir.ie

http://www.techtir.ie/blog/cinocat4/no-dtt-get-money-back

Submitted by cinocat4 on 3 November 2010 - 3:53pm If you find yourself in the situation that you cannot receive digital TV due to your TV not having the correct decoder you could get your money back.
Last year I bought a TV from Aldis under the impression it was an Irish "digital TV" . I never asked and they never told me it would not work . All I knew was there was "digital TV" written on the box , the leaflets and even the TV itself. In April of this year I tried to tune in my tv for digital channels following a conversation at work about digital. The channels appeared with sound, epg but no picture. So I immediately contacted Aldi. I had bought the TV in 2009 so when I contacted Aldi about the problem it was well over 12 months old.


This is how I got a full refund and luckily I still had my old TV so I didn't have to rush out for a replacement . I now intend to wait a while longer before deciding what TV to get.


1.If the TV was advertised as a "digital TV" then if it does not work in Ireland the retail is in breach of the Sales of good act 1980 for false advertising.


2.If the TV you bought is over a year old under European law -
Directive 1999/44/EC of the European
Parliament and of the Council of 25 May 1999 on certain aspects of the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees

Sellers of consumer goods within the EU are obliged to guarantee the conformity
of the goods with the contract for a period of two years after the delivery of the goods.
(I did not have to use this law with Aldi as they give a 3 year
guarantee with all their goods but other retailers are not so generous.)


Retailers pleading ignorance, don't fall for it !.


CEDA (part of IBEC) - The consumer electronics distributor association issued a memo to all it's members (manufactures and retailers) on 1st February 2008 warning of the dangers of making it not clear to consumers about digital TV but from my experience I have never seen a retailer point out that the TV will not work in Ireland.


Members of CEDA include:


Audiovisual Import, Beko, Dimpco, JVC, KAL., LG Electronics, Panasonic, Philips Ireland, Sanyo, Sharp and Sony Ireland.


Retailers might come back to you and say all you need is a set top box and a scart to solve the problem , well I don't want yet another box hanging out of my TV thank you .

Sponge Bob

Right on cue Lidl are dumping another one of these UK standard monitors on the Irish market This is NOT a television in Ireland , it is a monitor.

http://www.lidl.ie/ie/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20101111.p.22inch_Full_HD_LCD_Television

Do not buy this crap.

watty

So Summary as of 4th November

1. The Minister announced to Dáil that Analogue Switch Off is October 2012
2. The Full Service has been announced by all involved parties to be from "Spring 2011" rather than Minister's before 31st December 2011 and RTE's "possible after/from Q2 2011
3. Irish Free DTT AKA Saorsat launched 29th October 2010 as a "technical/Trial" Service, probably close to 94% coverage, more that TV3 Analogue, and similar to TG4 Analogue. It's HD ready from Day1.
4. TV3 joined about 16:30 on 3rd November 2010, just after it they confirmed they would be carried from Feb/Mar 2011 (maybe free till then? Who knows).
5. Proton Launch for ka-sat is being assembled at Baikonur Kazakhstan for late December Launch. If successful, RTE NL can rent space for Saorsat. Tests unlikely before Feb/March, if Launch & commission succeeds

Details http://www.techtir.ie/saortv

Specification of setbox or TV is decided long ago and is not strange, but logical.
MHEG5 because it's free (link explains) and the UK uses it. Freeview HD users on either side of N.I. Border will be able to get Saorview, Freeview and from 2012, FreeviewHD on either "Freeview HD" TV or box. A Saorview TV or box will receive regular Freeview but not freeviewHD in 2012 unless it has DVBT2 tuner, but only near border.
RTE has already stated that most people in Ireland need Freesat* for free UK TV. It will not be on Saorview.
This is underpinned by an MOU.
MPEG4 HD, because simulcast of SD and HD as in UK is wasteful, RTE2 will migrate first to HD only. No SD simulcasting. MPEG2 is obsolete.
More http://www.techtir.ie/saorview/preliminary

By 2013 or 2014 it's likely all four main channels will be HD. TV3 has announced an HD Studio and timeline. RTE2 will be HD shortly (Jan?)

Currently since 3rd November 2010 the content is
Television

RTÉ One
RTÉ Two (HD part time, typically on Sport )
TV3
TG4
RTÉ News Now
HD test loop occasionally.

Radio (all existing RTE radio from VHF-FM, LW 252 and DAB)

RTÉ Radio 1
RTÉ Radio 1 Extra
RTÉ 2 FM
RTÉ RnaG
RTÉ Lyric FM
RTÉ Choice
RTÉ Gold
RTÉ Junior/RTÉ Chill
RTÉ Pulse/RTÉ 2xm

In Early 2011

Children / RTÉ 1 +1 / Euronews (time share)
RTÉ Digital Teletext

In 2011 to Early 2012 additionally when the 2nd Multiplex is running:

Maybe 3e (currently Cable & Satellite Pay TV only)
RTÉ One: Change to HD only
RTÉ Two: Change to HD only
TV3 Change to HD 2012 to 2013 sometime.
TG4 Change to HD

When finance is available and two mux running

Oireachtas TV

Film Channel (HD?)

Perhaps National commercial Radio
via http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorview

*Freesat needs a dish and Freesat TV or Box. Ideally HD version.

wmpdd3

So all my tellys are fine as long as i add a 'box' to each 1?

watty

But you may be entitled to replacement, refund, or free box for one year old or two year old TV, depending on interpretation, if the TV doesn't work on Irish Digital Television properly.

Sponge Bob

Lidl have just dumped one of these UK standard TVs into their shops this week.

keithclancy

Again I'll point out that you can get multiple different TV's on the continent with different Tuners builtin

DVB-T
DVB-C
DVB-S
Analog

Yes folks, they still sell TV's with Analog tuners built in
My Samsung LCD Came with a DVB-C tuner (for cable) although I never bothered using it because I have a Media Center.

NO TV is future proof, they sell MPEG4 TV's that cannot be used in Certain countries because they have no conditional access module.

If they ever privatize RTE then your DVB-T Tuner will more then likely no longer work as they'll have to encrypt the system and you'll need a conditional access module which most tuners don't come with a slot for.

I have a HTPC with DVB-T DVB-S and Analog Tuner, so it aggregates everything and I can pause, record and schedule recordings

The Bonus with the national channels being encrypted is whoever doesnt want to watch the rubbish doesnt have to pay for a TV License.

Sponge Bob

You cannot get DVB-C tellys here for legal reasons, whatever about Europe.

The sale of analogue only TVs is probably illegal in most of the EU under the unfair contracts directive of 1999 starting from 1 January 2011 and would be illegal in Holland years ago given that they completed ASO c.2007 .

Under the unfair contracts directive of 1999 a product should work for 2 full years as intended after purchase, as most countries with Analogue will complete switchoff in late December 2012 the TV cannot possbly work for 2 full years as intended when bought. A UK Freeview compatible TV can be sold as an analogue tv this month and next and thereafter cannot be sold as a TV because a) It is not a digital TV in Ireland and b) It will not works as an analogue TV for two full years as per the directive.

It can generally be sold as a Computer Monitor of course if it has hdmi and/or vga inputs ....as long as you tell the buyer that they need a TV Licence for it in 2011 and 2012 but not thereafter, said licence costing annually as much as the monitor itself

watty

I was in Lidl last Friday.

They had a "Full HDTV LCD"
The TV is no use for Digital in Ireland, nor HD TV aerial reception in UK. Yet described as Full HD. There will never be HD on Analogue or on ordinary Freeview. You need "Freeview HD" (UK), "TNT HD" (France) or Saorview (Ireland) for HD. Or an HDMI output BD player, "Freesat HD", "Sky HD" or "UPC HD" box, in which case it is an HD TV Monitor.



Zoom in


The Box


They had a so called "Full HD" Monitor Except unlike the TV above, it's not a "Full HD" Monitor, just a very ordinary PC Monitor. It can't connect AT ALL to any of the earlier mentioned boxes!

"Full HD" only applies to TVs and Monitors suitable for a setbox or disc player, such as BluRay (BD). Why? Because TV's "Full HD" is a Medium resolution for Computers. It's only 1080 lines, and for 100% zoom on A4 documents you need 1200 lines at least. The aforesaid "monitor" is no use for TV display as it has no HDMI input. It should not be Described as Full HD. It is purely a PC Monitor, with DVI and VGA. Very likely it can't do the 50Hz required by European TV video, as most VGA is a minimum of 60Hz (there is exceptions). No mention of refresh rate, so it's very likely 60Hz. 50fps to 60fps conversion looks rubbish.


They also had an HDMI very basic generic non-HD Satellite Receiver. Absolute waste of money and misleading. A decent HDTV with SCART may give a better picture from a cheaper box!. If you want HDMI, then a "Freesat HD" satellite receiver is needed for Free TV.

keithclancy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You cannot get DVB-C tellys here for legal reasons, whatever about Europe.

The sale of analogue only TVs is probably illegal in most of the EU under the unfair contracts directive of 1999 starting from 1 January 2011 and would be illegal in Holland years ago given that they completed ASO c.2007 .

Under the unfair contracts directive of 1999 a product should work for 2 full years as intended after purchase, as most countries with Analogue will complete switchoff in late December 2012 the TV cannot possbly work for 2 full years as intended when bought. A UK Freeview compatible TV can be sold as an analogue tv this month and next and thereafter cannot be sold as a TV because a) It is not a digital TV in Ireland and b) It will not works as an analogue TV for two full years as per the directive.

It can generally be sold as a Computer Monitor of course if it has hdmi and/or vga inputs ....as long as you tell the buyer that they need a TV Licence for it in 2011 and 2012 but not thereafter, said licence costing annually as much as the monitor itself

Yes, they do sell TV's with Analog Tuners. Cable is still transmitted in Analog in the Netherlands along with DVB-C.

Your DVB-T TV sold in Ireland will never work in the Netherlands at any point in time. However a DVB-C with the correct CAM slot provided by UPC will work in Ireland.

Saying a TV supports DVB-T is just saying it supports the Digital Video Broadcasting Terrestrial standard, this does not mean that it will work with the provider you are using it with.

If RTE decide to enable Nagra on the National Broadcast you'll have no choice but to go buy a set top box and that will happen if they privatise RTE just like it did with the National Service in the Netherlands which is now run by KPN.

I would see it as a case of false advertising if they were advertising it as Saorsat or Saorview compatible, however they do not, they merely say it meets the DVB-T Standard (EN 300 744)

My point here being that there is no future proof system, unless that system specifically says its compatible with Saorsat or Saorview.

Sponge Bob

keithclancy wrote: »

If RTE decide to enable Nagra on the National Broadcast you'll have no choice but to go buy a set top box and that will happen if they privatise RTE just like it did with the National Service in the Netherlands which is now run by KPN.

I have a cam slot in my telly so no, but point taken. I am surprised they still supply analogue on cable in Holland. They have not broadcast analogue in 3 years.

I would see it as a case of false advertising if they were advertising it as Saorsat or Saorview compatible, however they do not, they merely say it meets the DVB-T Standard (EN 300 744)

The problem is the word "TV" not DVB-T. A TV should pick up and decode a signal that is broadcast.....ie not delivered over scart or hdmi from an STB and not delivered by cable.

My point here being that there is no future proof system, unless that system specifically says its compatible with Saorsat or Saorview.

I concede that if it will do picture and sound it is futureproof, the UK 'dbv-t' tellys are not even properly dvb-t compliant because they only find channels if one broadcasts 'false' UK only flags rather than generic ones.

watty

keithclancy wrote: »

Yes, they do sell TV's with Analog Tuners. Cable is still transmitted in Analog in the Netherlands along with DVB-C.

They will not keep analogue much longer. But currently all DVB-T sets include an analogue tuner. A Setbox or PVR is usually digital only. One analogue channel is maybe 4 to 5 HD channels or 16 to 20 MPEG4 SD channels or 40 broadband users. It's not economic.

Even in Ireland, many TVs have DVB-c also. Currently UPC does not provide a CAM. Even in Netherlands, that may end eventually. Switched Video and cardless authentication (I have tested the setbox) is what Cable TV will use, as well as VOD services. These are not TV set compatible. They will use an external PVR.

keithclancy wrote: »

Your DVB-T TV sold in Ireland will never work in the Netherlands at any point in time. However a DVB-C with the correct CAM slot provided by UPC will work in Ireland.

Rubbish. It will receive the National & Regional FTA DTT channels in Netherlands. On Cable you can use the local providers HD PVR box. Cable is not free. Conversely in Analogue days an Irish/UK TV might not have received sound in European Mainland Countries.

A Saorview Spec TV or box will receive TV in all of Europe and Russia, including many HD services except the few places such as UK using DVB-T2 for HD only. A DVB-T2 Saorspec box will work with FTA DTT ANYWHERE that uses DTT. If it has a CI, then many pay services are also possible.

keithclancy wrote: »

Saying a TV supports DVB-T is just saying it supports the Digital Video Broadcasting Terrestrial standard, this does not mean that it will work with the provider you are using it with. .

No. Broadly the services are

1. DVB-T + MPEG2 only (i.e. Freeview, TNT)
2. DVB-T + MPEG2 & MPEG4 HD (most now) (i.e. , TNT HD)
3. DVB-T + MPEG4 SD, MPEG4 HD (Saorview and others)
4. DVB-T2 + DVB-T +MPEG2 + MPEG4 (Freeview HD was 1st, rare)

Boxes or TVs broadly have

• (a) DVB-T, MPEG2: Only (1)
• (b) DVB-T, MPEG2, MPEG4 (1). None in Production. Most made for Sky Picnic which never launched.
• (c) DVB-T, MPEG2, MPEG4 + HD (1, 2 & 3).
• (d) DVB-T2, DVB-T, MPEG2, MPEG4 + HD (1,2,3 &4)

Type (a) is obsolete. Type(b) is being dumped on eBay. There was never a market.
(c) is common
(d) is now common in UK

Additionally few countries use Middleware at all. MHP is only used much for FTA in Italy and MHEG5 in UK. MediaHighway and OpenTV are only used on payTV. South America uses a Brazilian system. MHP requires a royalty per set/box. MHEG5 is free.

China, Japan, North America and South America don't use DVB-T at all, and are incompatible with each other.

You could not get away with the sort of TV selling in Ireland in many other Countries.

keithclancy wrote: »

If RTE decide to enable Nagra on the National Broadcast you'll have no choice but to go buy a set top box and that will happen if they privatise RTE just like it did with the National Service in the Netherlands which is now run by KPN.

That's totally misleading.
The national public television channels Nederland 1, Nederland 2, Nederland 3 and the regional public television channels are free-to-air.
It's just that the Pay TV part of DTT is what UK's OnDigital would have been, rather than TopUp TV.

keithclancy wrote: »

I would see it as a case of false advertising if they were advertising it as Saorsat or Saorview compatible, however they do not, they merely say it meets the DVB-T Standard (EN 300 744)

My point here being that there is no future proof system, unless that system specifically says its compatible with Saorsat or Saorview.

Of course nothing is exactly future proof. But when folk knew two years ago what it would be, and it's nothing strange, then there is no justification for "dumping" UK "HD Ready" or "Full HD" that won't even do HD via aerial in UK, ever, here in Ireland.

How would you like it it ATSC or ISDB-T sets sold in Netherlands simply because the Cable Tuner works (it might actually)?