X-Box Live

Trekker09

After cancelling X-Box Live in May, we received a bank statement which shows that €151 has been taken from our card since the cancellation. I have contacted Microsoft several times over this, and they eventually refunded €59.99. Apparantly we should have removed the gamer tag from the console, but we were unaware of this, (it was my sons console, and he sold it to somebody and that person sold it shortly afterwards). This was never mentioned when my wife rang to cancel, even though she told them that we we're selling the console.

Basically, the person that has it now was able to go into the account, change the gamer tag and get credit on our credit card, without any security questions or passwords.

Microsoft's X-Box Live fraud investigation team looked into this and deemed that there was no case for them to answer and duly re-activated the account. The new user coul've got more credit only for the fact that we have cancelled the credit card.

I am trying to get reimbursed for the full amount, does anyone know what steps I take next?

PS I have contacted our Credit Card company and they are also investigating this.

Cheers

Ste.phen

I think you'll get the credit card company to refund you on the basis it was unauthorised.

On the other hand, I can see microsoft's argument which is that, effectively, you left the xbox logged into the account which had the payment information saved on it.

It's easy enough to a) log out so that connecting again needs the full password, b) lock the account so it's partially logged in, but needs a code before it'll connect to xbox live, c) remove the gamer tag completely from the xbox.

From their perspective, you ('the logged in user') cancelled your monthly subscription, and later renewed it using the details you saved on your account. Poor form from microsoft to not refund you immediately and remotely log out the xbox though (assuming such a thing is possible, i believe it is)

Actually, a year's xbox live is only about 35 euro (or 60 if purchased on the console itself rather than buying the codes online) so i'm guessing they refunded the year's subscription no problem, but that the person logged into your account had also added microsoft points to the console and used them to download games, movies, etc and for some reason they won't / don't want to refund that part

kingofthekop

I could see this happening to someone. Unfortunately it was you. Microsoft should have a request for a password in order to access credit card details. The fact that you can just go to the account and add ms points is a joke. Hopefully your example will get a reaction out of Microsoft.

They should definately take full responsibility

Trekker09

Thanks for that. The point I've continually made is that when my wife rang them she emphasised that she wanted to close the account as our son was seling the console. She also imformed the guy early in the phone call that she had no knowledge technically but she was the card holder. At no point did he mention removing gamer tags etc, otherwise we would have got my son to do that.

What worried me was that they reactivated the account, and if we hadn't of cancelled the card, would be facing an even higher bill. I spent a couple of hours on the phone to them last Friday, basically banging my head against the wall, but eventually they agreed to lock the account and re-submit it to the fraud investigation department. I was really peed off today to receive another email saying that my request for more credits had been refused as it was an invalid credit card. I got onto the phone to them again and they admitted that they forgot to freeze the account on Friday. Unbeleivable!!

Trekker09

Microsoft should have a request for a password in order to access credit card details.

As far as I know, they have a duty of care with confidential info and should have adequate safeguards in place to protect my personal account info. In this respect, their stated procedures leave a lot to be desired and have no security measures at all. I have requested a copy of their T&c's but ave so far received nowt.

They also have a duty of care when dealing with our cancellation phone call. They assumed that we knew that we should delete the gamer tag etc from the console, but my wife hda explained that she wasn't tech savvy and didn't know how to use the X-Box.

wmpdd3

Something similar happened to me, I gave my cc no.to my brother a few years ago for 1 yrs sub. He tried to use his own card to download some maps or something, I got charged, 18 months later. He didn't realise my details were still on the console.

Found the t&c:

http://www.xbox.com/en-IE/legal/xboxComTOU.htm

calex71

Trekker09 wrote: »

As far as I know, they have a duty of care with confidential info and should have adequate safeguards in place to protect my personal account info.

The storing of CC info on the account on the xbox was something I never liked, and given prices online is silly to give the xbox the cc detials in the 1st place, but surely there is a duty of care on the CC owner also ?

As for being charged 18 months later, the person doing the buying would be made aware that there is a cost and that the credit card will be charge during the transaction if they don't have enough points etc they would have to go through a process to buy more which would clearly stare how much and how they are paying , I mean do they think the money tree is paying for it ? Ok if it's a minor then they not grasp mammy's CC is taking the hit, but more fool Mammy for basically giving Jr. a blank check.

Wow never thought I'd semi defend M$ :mad:

Cabaal

Trekker09 wrote: »

Basically, the person that has it now was able to go into the account, change the gamer tag and get credit on our credit card, without any security questions or passwords.

err that sounds like a very unsecure system they have there, any system I've seen including internal will generally only show XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-1456 for credit card number.

If MS display in plain text for all to see they are idiots imho

Trekker09

As for being charged 18 months later, the person doing the buying would be made aware that there is a cost and that the credit card will be charge during the transaction if they don't have enough points etc they would have to go through a process to buy more which would clearly stare how much and how they are paying , I mean do they think the money tree is paying for it ? Ok if it's a minor then they not grasp mammy's CC is taking the hit, but more fool Mammy for basically giving Jr. a blank check.

I think you're missing my point. We called MS to cancel the account as my son was selling the console and told them this. The person who received the credit did so by just plugging in the console and either ordering the credit online, or, as I think happenned, called MS on the 1800 number (as this number appears on our bank staement). Basically, we followed the cancellation procedure correctly, but were let down by their security procedures. If it was my son who had received the credit, well fair enough, we'd take the hit. What I can't understand are:

• If the account has been cancelled, which it had, and they acknowledge this, then how did a complete stranger reactivate it so easily. This should've been flagged when somebody tried to reactivate it.
• Why, when I had called them, (several times) to let them know that our account had been reactivated by a stranger, did they not freeze the account as promised? There have been repeated atempts to accress our credit card to get more credit, as recently as last Sunday. When I called them again yesterday, one of their agents couldn't answer me and transferred me to a supervisor, who told me that they had forgotton to freeze the account.

RangeR

OP, Stop banging your head off the wall. You are obviously getting nowhere with Microsoft [computer says no].

Write a formal letter of complaint [mention those words in the letter] detailing everything that happened. Keep it factual and leave emotion out of it. Tell them that if this issue isn't resolved favorably in 10 business days [2 weeks to you and me], you will have no option but to pursue Small Claims Court.

Send this Formal letter of complaint by registered post to Microsoft XBox whatever.

Wait 10 days.

If you don't get a favourable response within 10 days, initiate the small claims court online. Will cost you €15~

Trekker09

RangeR wrote: »

OP, Stop banging your head off the wall. You are obviously getting nowhere with Microsoft [computer says no].

Write a formal letter of complaint [mention those words in the letter] detailing everything that happened. Keep it factual and leave emotion out of it. Tell them that if this issue isn't resolved favorably in 10 business days [2 weeks to you and me], you will have no option but to pursue Small Claims Court.

Send this Formal letter of complaint by registered post to Microsoft XBox whatever.

Wait 10 days.

If you don't get a favourable response within 10 days, initiate the small claims court online. Will cost you €15~

Nice on RangeR, will do that if I don't get any suss out of them in the next couple of days. I have actually been very calm with them on the phone, not personalising it with the agent I'm talking to and giving them hell, as I know they have a job to do.

PacManFan

Trekker09 wrote: »

• If the account has been cancelled, which it had, and they acknowledge this, then how did a complete stranger reactivate it so easily. This should've been flagged when somebody tried to reactivate it.

With regards to this, the answer is clear. If you unsubscribe from Xbox Live, Microsoft obviously want you to have the option to resubscribe in the future. Forget that the Xbox was sold for a minute and assume you kept it and decided to resubscribe to Xbox Live. All you'd have to do is sign into your profile (which would be an Xbox Live silver membership, i.e. free and with only limited Xbox Live features) and create another subscription. It wasn't flagged because from Microsoft's point of view, they only see it as a customer resubscribing.

As for why they didn't freeze your account, I think that was a major slip up on their part.

I'm not sure if you can take this to the Small Claims Court tbh OP. That's for dealing with sellers who break the Sales of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980. Technically, I don't think they did break it but I'm not an expert on law. The credit card info was stored on your console for ease of use by you in the same way Amazon.co.uk, Play.com, etc remember your CC details. It means buying something next time is much quicker. By leaving the Xbox Live profile saved to the hard drive of the console, the new owner(s) only had to connect the console to the internet and sign into that profile to be able to purchase things using that card.

I think your best bet is to deal with your CC company.

UrbanSea

I think you're really hard done by there. Your wife even told them that the console was being sold,that's not good enough,ye clearly no longer wanted to pay for the live subscription. As another poster said,small claims court may be a good idea,but how you could get them there I'm not sure?

Trekker09

greetings wrote: »

I think you're really hard done by there. Your wife even told them that the console was being sold,that's not good enough,ye clearly no longer wanted to pay for the live subscription. As another poster said,small claims court may be a good idea,but how you could get them there I'm not sure?

Well I mentioned to one of the supervisors if they agreed with me that their cancellation procedure was bad they agreed with me and also agreed that I had done nothing wrong. I asked this person to make a record of their comments. I have also asked for a full copy of their cancellation procedure, but so far have received nothing.

UrbanSea

Trekker09 wrote: »

Well I mentioned to one of the supervisors if they agreed with me that their cancellation procedure was bad they agreed with me and also agreed that I had done nothing wrong. I asked this person to make a record of their comments. I have also asked for a full copy of their cancellation procedure, but so far have received nothing.

I'd say get on to them a few times,enough to make them want to make you quiet by refunding the rest of the money.

the groutch

I would report this to the Data Protection Commissioner, no company should allow use of your credit card details without at least a password or verification of some sort

Cabaal

the groutch wrote: »

I would report this to the Data Protection Commissioner, no company should allow use of your credit card details without at least a password or verification of some sort

But the X-Box account was left logged in, the company did nothing wrong.

Its like selling your PC with your amazon account left logged in, the person you sold it to then goes to amazon and uses the express checkout feature to buy something.

Amazon is not a fault, the user is.

Kevin!

Cabaal wrote: »

But the X-Box account was left logged in, the company did nothing wrong.

Its like selling your PC with your amazon account left logged in, the person you sold it to then goes to amazon and uses the express checkout feature to buy something.

Amazon is not a fault, the user is.

Amazon would log you out after X amount of time and FYI if someone did order something from the express checkout, they would have to re-enter the CC details as you can only deliver to your main address without verification.

I think that M$ should require something simple like a CVV number upon checkout for verification and maybe log you out of your XBL account periodically like amazon - the e-tailer you chose to demonstrate.

RangeR

Any update?

Trekker09

RangeR wrote: »

Any update?

I've sent a letter to the fraud investigation team in my bank. MS rang me back and said that it's the bank who should take the hit, not them. Haven't heard anything back from them yet.

But the X-Box account was left logged in, the company did nothing wrong.

MS failed to cancel the account and explain the process when my wife rang them. She told them that she wanted to cancel the account as my son no longer had the console. They have admitted that they were wrong in this aspect, and that they should've walked her through removing the Gamer Tag. Why should somebody else pay for their mistake?