Donegal Road Crash - 11/07/10 ***(READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING)***

-Chris-

We had a thread here about the vehicle collision in Donegal last Sunday:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055966153

We made the decision at the time to lock the thread (and cut short any new threads) out of respect for the families and friends of the deceased.

We've decided to re-open this topic for discussion as it's been a week since the incident and all the deceased have been laid to rest, and we feel it's an important event from a road safety point-of-view that merits analysis and discussion.

A few ground rules:

• Assume your post is being read by the family of one of the deceased, i.e. be reasonable and respectful in your language
• Report posts if you have an issue with them, don't back seat moderate
• Anyone considered to be trolling will be immediately banned. Anyone feeding the trolls will also receive an infraction/ban as appropriate
• If we feel the thread is being run off the rails, it will be locked.
• Try and ensure that you are basing your opinion on something verifiable, just because you think it was caused by them doing 140kmph backwards doesn't necessarily mean it's true. If you think none of them were wearing seatbelts or that drink was involved, please provide a link to a credible source that supports the assertion

Also, please don't give out about it only being a week since the incident. We're aware that those affected will still be raw about this, and will be for some time, but we feel we've allowed a respectful amount of time and think it's important to allow discussion of this while it's still fresh in our minds.
If you have an issue with the thread in general, or with the moderation of it, please feel free to PM one of the mods rather than addressing it on-thread.


In summary and as before:
There is no issue with a robust debate about road safety in general and the (concretely known) facts of this case, but there's a very clear line of civility, and if it's crossed, there will be infractions and bannings as appropriate.


Use your common sense. Thanks.

Barr

Anyone know what was the suspected cause of the incident ?

Yakult

Whats gonna happen with the driver in terms of the law?

bmw535d

alot of people will say " oh the young-fella was doing a million mph" etc but the way i look at from a local point of view is, was the first car driven by the old woman cutting the corner? alot of people cut that corner, was she on her side of the road? it could be a twist in the story, it will come out in the investigation, i was driving home last night on the same road at the same time of the accident a week ago and came around the corner just before the accident scene to see 3 sets of blue flashing lights, i thought to my self no way this can't be not again, wtf etc. as i got closer i saw it was the guards pulling people over, i got pulled over and he took my details and asked me was i on this road at this time last week, i said no, he asked was i in contact with any of the desist, i just told the guard i saw one of them in the town half an hour before the accident. they really are doing a thorough investigation and should be able to find out exactly the cause of the accident.

Drummerboy08

I still find it hard to understand how there were 8 grown men in a medium sized saloon car.

I was in the back of a Passat today with two other fairly big lads and it was more than a tight squeeze.

The Big Red Button

One thing that I don't understand is the fact that they chose to all squash into the one car and leave their own cars behind so that they wouldn't be done for drink driving ... but weren't they afraid of any penalty for the driver if they met a checkpoint with the overcrowded car? It makes me wonder whether the Gardaí up there regularly turn a blind eye to overcrowding, just as long as the driver isn't drinking?

Does anyone know what the usual penalty for driving an overcrowded car is anyways? Is it strictly enforced in general? And does it usually apply to just the driver, or are the passengers punished as well?

Barr

What about seatbelts ? - they are hardly 8 of them in a Passat.

x in the city

regarding seat belts, It could be reasonable to assume none had any on except the driver, that's how he is still alive, and yes no car has 8 belts.

because of the nature of this crash and the number of life's lost, i don't think we will hear anymore about it.

daveharnett

Barr wrote: »

What about seatbelts ? - they are hardly 8 of them in a Passat.

Nope, the pasaat has a maximum of five belts, afair 4 3-point belts and a lap belt in the middle.

-Chris-

bmw535d wrote: »

alot of people will say " oh the young-fella was doing a million mph" etc

This article says they were driving excessively fast:
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...n-2257350.html

-Chris-

Barr wrote: »

What about seatbelts ? - they are hardly 8 of them in a Passat.

At least 3 people without seatbelts in the Passat (and based on this article, it was probably 5 if 5 people were thrown clear of the cars).



Edit: Also, please note that this article states that the driver of the Passat has a previous conviction for dangerous driving. This has been disputed later in this thread and should therefore be presumed to be incorrect in the article.

-Chris-

daveharnett wrote: »

Nope, the pasaat has a maximum of five belts, afair 4 3-point belts and a lap belt in the middle.

Passat has 3 x 3-point belts in the rear.

x in the city

pretty brutal that, after reading that article its clear that the driver was gone crazy., id phantom that they were 5 in the back and two in the front passenger, that's just insane

Run_to_da_hills

chatterpillar wrote: »

Does anyone know what the usual penalty for driving an overcrowded car is anyways? Is it strictly enforced in general? And does it usually apply to just the driver, or are the passengers punished as well?

In the old days Gardai would just have told three of them to get out and walk. Now they would more than likely throw the book and do them for not wearing seat belts and over crowding the car.

The driver failed in his responsibility, being a qualified articulated truck driver he should have had a good knowledge on the dangers of overcrowded any vehicle, shifting load ballast, delayed braking, impaired suspension, and various other important factors that a normal car driver would not have known about.

sentient_6

& based on that article looks like he also failed to learn after being convicted of dangerous driving in 2007.

.Longshanks.

Im originally from the area and be back at the weekends every 4-6 weeks. After all that has happened in Inishowen over the past 5 years or so my first reaction was anger. Anger that 8 young men could have thought it was ok to to all get into one car. There is a very very high chance that all these lads would have known somebody previously seriously hurt/killed in a car accident because its a 'tight knit community' and yet they still thought it was ok....

But after 3 or 4 days I remembered that I local fast food shop I worked in a few years ago used to provide taxis home home at night for us. At weekends this would be anywhere from 3 to 5am. And if a minibus was available, 6, 7 or 8 of us (16 - 23 year olds) used to pile into the back of a octivia.

Never gave it a second thought.

I'd be fairly sure these young lads honesty thought they were doing the smarter (or lesser of two evils) by getting into a single car after being out in a pub watching the WC final for a few hours.

The comment by bmw535d about the first car old cutting the corner is also very possible.

If anybody knows the road, it very unlikely that the speed limit was being broken. Its just that type of section of road. I wouldn't be surprised that the accident was caused by the extra weight causing the car to under-break and over-steer simultaneously

Absurdum

Una Mullally wrote an interesting piece on this in the Tribune yesterday, I would agree mostly with what she said:

http://www.tribune.ie/news/editorial-opinion/article/2010/jul/18/una-mullally-perhaps-it-is-too-raw-and-horrible-to/

Una Mullally - "Perhaps it is too raw and horrible to talk about it right now, but certain things about the Donegal crash need to be said..."

A truck carrying wreaths for the funeral of Paul Doherty in Clonmany, Co Donegal on Thursday
It was a tragedy, there is no doubt about that, but it was not a tragic accident. This was preventable. We've heard the names over and over throughout the week, as the funerals were catalogued by newspapers: Mark McLaughlin (21), PJ McLaughlin (21), Hugh Friel (66), Paul Doherty (19), Eamonn McDaid (22), Ciarán Sweeney (19), Damien McLaughlin (21), and James McEleney (23). The driver of the Volkswagen Passat in which his seven friends died, Shaun Kelly (22), remains in hospital.

The horrific crash in Donegal in which eight men lost their lives has become a topic of national conversation. Amongst that chatter are politically incorrect views about how people drive in 'that part of the country'. Driving in Donegal and its neighbouring counties has a reputation for speed, for lawlessness, for bad roads, for a lack of policing, for a nudge and wink attitude to drink driving, for a culture of boy racers that reinforces the idea of speeding as some kind of recreational activity, when it should be feared, not endorsed.

It's odd that when a car accident was responsible for these deaths, a love of motoring permeates the multiple funerals. At Mark McLaughlin's mass, a poem was recited about his love of trucks, ending in, "You'd meet him coming anywhere and even day or night / His mobile phone to his ears, he'd wave and flash the lights." One of the gifts presented during the funeral of Paul Doherty was a copy of Auto Trader magazine. The offertory gifts at PJ McLaughlin's funeral included a photograph of a souped-up BMW and a trophy naming him "Driver of the Year 2010". Live by the sword...

Psychologists often link the desire to speed as quite a male-specific craving for escape. A more sexist appraisal would be that women desire security, while men desire freedom, hence the relentless marketing of cars to men as a subconscious getaway symbol. An obsession with cars signifies an obsession with freedom. It's no wonder then that young men are more likely to be part of a social group where cars are the main pastime and profession in more rural or isolated areas, where escape, freedom and distractions are more abstract ambitions than the multiple distractions that a more manic urban life may offer.

Around the country there are lads just like those in the Inishowen peninsula who are fanatical about cars and speed. They are a sector for whom road safety campaigns are probably irrelevant. Noel Brett and the Road Safety Authority have done a phenomenal job tackling road deaths. Deaths on Irish roads are at their lowest ever. But all of the policy, policing and media campaigns will seemingly never be enough to get through to a certain demographic, generally young men, who see themselves as indestructible. The priest at one funeral spoke about the fragility of life, but it is an impossible task to convince young people of their indestructibility. That feeling of invincibility occasionally resulting in carelessness is the central essence of youth.

Here is the difficult part for families and friends to stomach: it is not as if a finger descended from the heavens and randomly stubbed out these bright young lives. We all make choices, mostly without possibly knowing what the consequences of such decisions are, but the choice to bundle eight people into a car when the man at the wheel had a conviction for dangerous driving is a choice many other people would not make.

Perhaps the men would have reached their destination safely had they left a minute earlier or later, or on another day, or with different weather, or any number of variables, and would have not given a second thought to the journey.

There has been an insistence that blame isn't relevant. Philomena McEleney, whose son James died in the crash, said, "There is no one to blame. James was in the car, I don't blame anyone for that."

At the funeral of Ciaran Sweeney, his father Eamonn said, "We do not hold or blame Shaun or anyone else in any way for the loss of our beautiful son Ciaran."

It's not fair. It's not fair that seven fine young men have been buried this week. It is not fair that their friend in hospital will have an almost unspeakable existence for the foreseeable future. It is not fair that a pensioner coming home from bingo couldn't do so without being killed. It is not fair on the police and ambulance services and priests that surveyed the wreckage, for those images will live with them forever. It is not fair on families and friends to suffer such grief. None of it is fair.

Maybe there is blame to be ascribed. Perhaps it is too raw and horrible to talk about these things right now, but maybe they need to be said. Sometimes, when we decide that there is no one to blame, it exonerates everyone from responsibility. It's very hard to learn from an event if it is seemingly pointless and random. But this was not random.

It may be an impossible task to convince young people of their destructibility. But it is not impossible to convince them to somehow change their behaviour, to make safer choices. May those eight men rest in peace, and may those that they left behind learn from their mistakes.

umullally@tribune.ie

July 18, 2010

.Longshanks.

sentient_6 wrote: »

Looks like he also failed to learn after being convicted of dangerous driving in 2007.

I dont think that actually true. Media might have gotten driver mixed up with another family member

sesna

sentient_6 wrote: »

Looks like he also failed to learn after being convicted of dangerous driving in 2007.

I would imagine Kelly is facing a huge ban (minimum 15-20 years) from driving when is well enough to be charged, not to mention 8 counts of dangerous driving causing death. I wonder how much of an impact his previous conviction will have also.

sentient_6

kev_Longshanks100 wrote: »

I dont think that actually true. Media might have gotten driver mixed up with another family member

Can anyone clarify this then? I just went by the indo article.

Eric Cartman

The Tyres were all different and bald , while not the cause it would definitly contribute to the crash, the car should not have been on the road in that condition.

From what I can see of the engine cover it appears to be a v6 passat , which are quite capable of high speed even with 8 lads in them, this could also have contributed to it

now with that out of the way time for opinion

the driver was definitley behaving irresponsibly by having that many lads in the car , peer pressure or not he should not have driven with that many in the car, if it turns out that he was the one who caused the crash i believe 100% of the blame lies with him for the deaths of the others

CiniO

First thing that comes to my head, is a question whose fault was it.
From what I read, there were 3 cars involved. Passat, Megane and Corolla.
So far I never heard driver of which of these 3 was at fault.
I only heard opinions, that it must have been Passat driver's fault, as he probably was irresponsible driver (that's not my opinion, but what I heard including this forum).

One thing is certain - there were 8 fatalities, and the reason for it, was that in Passat there were too many passengers, many of them without seatbelts - that's obvious.

But we completely don't know the reason why the accident happened. It can be Passat driver's fault, as well as Megan driver's fault also as well as Corolla driver's fault, or it could be none of them's fault - f.e. mechanical breakdown.

And the truth is, that whoever caused this accident, is responsible for 8 fatalities.

Of course, sitting 8 people into car with 5 spaces is stupid, but it wouldn't finish tragically, if the accident wouldn't happen - and accidents don't just happen for no reason - in most cases it's the driver's fault.

.Longshanks.

sentient_6 wrote: »

Can anyone clarify this then? I just went by the indo article.

Like i say, i think thats whats happened. At least thats what i've heard from locals.

Remember that it is quite possible that they were not at fault for the accident itself (obviously are for the carnage after)...it seems like they are two other cars involved as well.

There was another accident in Inishowen a few years ago, where five young people were killed. Everyone assumed the young male driver there was responisble. He wasn't. It was a drunk, middle aged man driving home to Derry that was the cause.

And yet I don't think that fact was reported nationally (I could be wrong, I only remember reading it in the local press here in Donegal)

In the minds of those people who heard about the initial, shocking story of the 5 lives lost, but not of the cause, the memory of the young driver is somewhat 'tarnished'.

To me, it seems that after crash, the press forgot about it after a week and the actual cause not widely published.

If the suspected cause was released sooner, when fresh on people's minds, the memory of the young driver would be better 'protected'

The Big Red Button

kev_Longshanks100 wrote: »

I dont think that actually true. Media might have gotten driver mixed up with another family member

Yes, as far as I know, in the previous thread an article was linked to where Liam Kelly had a prior conviction - not Shaun Kelly.

Helium

Unfortunately unless the issue of speeding by young male drivers is not addressed this will continue to happen on Irish roads.
I'd say if we were to put hands up a lot of us myself included are guilty in having sped when we started out driving.
From my own point of view would admit there was a certain 'buzz' and also didn't take much encouraging from friends.
Now i know a lot of people will say 'yeah another A-Hole' but this is the case like it or not young fella's and cars = SPEED!!
I am now in mid 40's and have settled down long time ago.It is terrifying now to see speeds being driven on back country roads where I am by young lads in supped up cars. So unless they come up with a solution to put restrictors or some other form of device on cars driven by under 25's this TRAGIC form of premature deaths will continue.
My thoughts are with all concerned in that crash.

Barr

I find it strange that there is so little information about what happened. Would we have to wait for the Garda investigation to find who is liable?

sesna

salonfire wrote: »

Remember that it is quite possible that they were not at fault for the accident itself (obviously are for the carnage after)...it seems like they are two other cars involved as well.
'

Shaun Kellys car overloaded with 8 people, clips a Megane with such force it knocks one of its wheels off. Also travelling at such speed that it continues a further 300 meters before smashing head on into another car and kills 7 of the eight occupants and the driver of the other vehicle. Car also driven by young, male who statistically are the most dangerous drivers.

Kelly's car also dangerously overtook a third unrelated car, with all eight on board, moments before. The driver of this other car flashed his lights at Kelly, such was his concern at Kelly's driving.

Yes, we dont know all the facts in the case :rolleyes:

. Bring on the Garda technical report.

Barr

Barr wrote: »

I find it strange that there is so little information about what happened. Would we have to wait for the Garda investigation to find who is liable?

That could take months. By which time it could well be forgotten...well hardly likely in this case, but in smaller incidents, it could be and someone's name may be sullied by the assumptions of people not in the know.

In these cases, I think the suspected cause, even if not proven, should be released

sesna

sesna wrote: »

Shaun Kellys car overloaded with 8 people, clips a Megane with such force it knocks one of its wheels off. Also travelling at such speed that it continues a further 300 meters before smashing head on into another car and kills 7 of the eight occupants and the driver of the other vehicle. Car also driven by young, male who statistically are the most dangerous drivers.

Kelly's car also dangerously overtook a third unrelated car, with all eight on board, moments before. The driver of this other car flashed his lights at Kelly, such was his concern at Kelly's driving.

Yes, we dont know all the facts in the case :rolleyes:

. Bring on the Garda technical report.

How do you know the Megane didn't stray into his path? The lad is getting slated here and it is possible, that in months time it was found that another driver was at fault...what use is that? People's minds are made up by then.

notel70

-Chris- wrote: »

This article says they were driving excessively fast:
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...n-2257350.html

In fairness it says another car thought they were driving fast and flashed their lights at them. Plenty of jerries have flashed me after they have I have overtaken them just for the sake of it

Lets be honest. After people heard of the crash,ie young lads from donegal involved, late at night, involved in a crash earlier on, people were speculating drink, fleeing the scene of an accident speed 2 of these were wrong so lets leave it to the guards.

Listen to the families of the deceased, they are saying they dont blame the driver

sentient_6

Surely overtaking when the car is loaded with 8 people is prove alone of some form of recklessness on the part of the driver? Imagine the effort required to get a car with 8 people in it enough speed to overtake in the first place too?

Barr

sesna wrote: »

Shaun Kellys car overloaded with 8 people, clips a Megane with such force it knocks one of its wheels off. Also travelling at such speed that it continues a further 300 meters before smashing head on into another car and kills 7 of the eight occupants and the driver of the other vehicle. Car also driven by young, male who statistically are the most dangerous drivers.

Kelly's car also dangerously overtook a third unrelated car, with all eight on board, moments before. The driver of this other car flashed his lights at Kelly, such was his concern at Kelly's driving.

Yes, we dont know all the facts in the case :rolleyes:

. Bring on the Garda technical report.

If this is the case I dont know how he could live with himself or how the deceased families would react if they met him in the street.

You have to question the reactions of the victims' families as well

They don't blame Kelly, praying for his recovery, and welcoming into their house whenever.

Ask yourself, why didn't we hear any of the families blame Kelly, at a time of heightened emotions?

notel70

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The Tyres were all different and bald , while not the cause it would definitly contribute to the crash, the car should not have been on the road in that condition.

From what I can see of the engine cover it appears to be a v6 passat , which are quite capable of high speed even with 8 lads in them, this could also have contributed to it

now with that out of the way time for opinion

the driver was definitley behaving irresponsibly by having that many lads in the car , peer pressure or not he should not have driven with that many in the car, if it turns out that he was the one who caused the crash i believe 100% of the blame lies with him for the deaths of the others

Bull****, reg was KHZ 7079 which is a 2ltr diesel passat:rolleyes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0712/breaking5.html


Mods lock this up please nothing but pure speculation, the above post is the typical crap from "know it alls" who know fu(k all

peasant

kev_Longshanks100 wrote: »

. I wouldn't be surprised that the accident was caused by the extra weight causing the car to under-break and over-steer simultaneously

According to my quick research, a 1.9 TDI Passat of that vintage has a load capacity (depending on kit fitted) of around 570 kg.

eight lads of an average 70 kg = 560 kg 8x 75 = 600 kg

So, while 8 passengers is definitly too much for 5 seatbelts, the vehicle might not have been overloaded above and beyond it's safety margin.

Whether the driver knew how to drive a fully loaded/overloaded car is another question.

Padraig Mor

-Chris- wrote: »

This article says they were driving excessively fast:
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...n-2257350.html

To be fair, most people here will have (safely) overtaken some dawdler who flashes their lights because they're convinced it's a lunatic maneuver.

CiniO

salonfire wrote: »

How do you know the Megane didn't stray into his path? The lad is getting slated here and it is possible, that in months time it was found that another driver was at fault...what use is that? People's minds are made up by then.

Did you see a movie "Green mile"
There were the same kind of problem shown.
Because someone suspected to commit a murder was black, everybody was absolutely certain it was him who did it. In the end, it was revealed that it was someone completely else who's done it.

I can see the same here - everyone is accusing young male driver, but none has been said about who was at fault.

bladebrew

i doubt the drivier had any convictions,
it said in the examiner (corkish paper) that the driver was supposed to be taking an artic to paris the next morning, i doubt any insurance company would cover a young driver doing continental work in an artic if he had any convictions,

some papers were also putting their own spin on it by saying the driver hit the renault and kept going until it hit the corolla,
i think the problem was the driver clipped the renault and went out of control then hit the corolla,
not a hit and run as they were suggesting,

notel70

Barr wrote: »

If this is the case I dont know how he could live with himself or how the deceased families would react if they met him in the street.

The family of the lads who were in the car with him have asked people not to blame the driver, they said he will always be welcome in their home

Atomic Pineapple

sesna wrote: »

Kelly's car also dangerously overtook a third unrelated car, with all eight on board, moments before. The driver of this other car flashed his lights at Kelly, such was his concern at Kelly's driving.

notel70 wrote: »

In fairness it says another car thought they were driving fast and flashed their lights at them. Plenty of jerries have flashed me after they have I have overtaken them just for the sake of it

Exactly, not so long ago I overtook a car going excessively slow on a nice bit of straight road in the safest manner possible only to be flashed at.

So I'd discount that event as we dont know the person stating it, they could be right and he was speeding or they could be an ould bint who thinks anything over 30kph is excessive speeding.

Helium wrote: »

So unless they come up with a solution to put restrictors or some other form of device on cars driven by under 25's this TRAGIC form of premature deaths will continue.

I'd have thought education in school would be a much better option, a restrictor would be easily removed or by passed.

sesna

salonfire wrote: »

How do you know the Megane didn't stray into his path? The lad is getting slated here and it is possible, that in months time it was found that another driver was at fault...what use is that? People's minds are made up by then.

A number of facts are already available. You can't blame people for being realists. I am still amazed also that Kelly could not stop his vehicle following the initial collision.

Given all other facts involved, I would be very slow to accept mechanical failure as another poster eluded to as a possibility. It seems quite clear to me Kelly was driving at grossly excess speed, with an overloaded car. Even if the other vehicle had crossed into his path, I wonder how many other safe drivers would have been able to bring their vehicles to a safe stop. I do not know what the speed limit was on this road - probably 80km/p/h but at most 100 km/p/h.

Jesus, how fast does one have to be travelling to smash into one car, travel a few hundred meters and impact another car causing 8 people to die.

Also relating to acendotal evidence of people needlessly flashing - I commonly overtake cars, if they are travelling less than 90km/p/h. I cannot remember the last time someone flashed their lights at me for an overtake manouver, its certainly more than a few years ago. Also, this one thing alone does not amount to much - combined with all the other facts gives context.

DannyBuoy

notel70 wrote: »

The family of the lads who were in the car with him have asked people not to blame the driver, they said he will always be welcome in their home

A charitable and noble expression, to be fair, on the part of the families. I hope its deserved.

-Corkie-

First and foremost my deepest sympathies to the family of the dead. Secondly fairplay to Chris for opening the thread and for the other mods here to moderate it and update it.

Has anyone any news on the driver. I do believe he is awake in hospital.

peasant

sesna wrote: »

. Even if the other vehicle had crossed into his path, I wonder how many other safe drivers would have been able to bring their vehicles to a safe stop without 8 people losing their lives.

After an impact strong enough to rip the front wheel clear off the Megane, the Passat would most likely have spun/skidded totally out of control ...safe driver or no safe driver.

I'm pretty sure he would have tried to stop ...but once 2 tons of car and passengers engage in a lovely dance with the laws of physics, the "stop safely" card has been removed from your deck.

Run_to_da_hills

sentient_6 wrote: »

Surely overtaking when the car is loaded with 8 people is prove alone of some form of recklessness on the part of the driver? Imagine the effort required to get a car with 8 people in it enough speed to overtake in the first place too?

V6 2.5 motor would have had ample acceleration.

sesna

peasant wrote: »

I'm pretty sure he would have tried to stop ...but once 2 tons of car and passengers engage in a lovely dance with the laws of physics, the "stop safely" card has been removed from your deck.

I couldn't agree more when one is travelling at grossly excess speed. I am sure his brakes were still working, and if spinning/travelling sideways the laws of physics such as massive resistance friction still apply.

bmw535d

alot of papers state that the first accident happened some 300m before the second fatal accident, looking at the scene and position of the Megan with local knowledge of the road it seems to me that there was a distance of around 30-50m between the two incidents. debris was found behind the corolla, this means the corolla must have pushed the passat back in the opposite direction it came from, therefor it may be possible that the passat clipped the Megan at around 50-60 mph(as this was a corner) lost control due to the front right wheel of the passat being damaged like the megan wheel was, and veered on into the corolla's path which could have been doing 40-50 mph which was more than the passat and landed it the ditch close to each other suggesting they were doing the same speed in opposite direction which cancelled each other's velocity out.both cars look mangled because they went through a telegraph pole and some trees.

it could all come out yet that sean kelly was totally innocent, the Megan driver may have caused the accident by cutting the corner(like alot of locals do) and to clarify sean kelly DID NOT have any previous convictions it was his brother.

-Corkie-

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

V6 2.5 motor would have had ample acceleration.

It was only a 2.0 tdi 140 bhp

Eric Cartman

notel70 wrote: »

Bull****, reg was KHZ 7079 which is a 2ltr diesel passat:rolleyes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0712/breaking5.html


Mods lock this up please nothing but pure speculation, the above post is the typical crap from "know it alls" who know fu(k all

note the word appears , didnt see the reg, thank you for clarifying it, no need to insult anyone

bmw535d

SARASON wrote: »

First and foremost my deepest sympathies to the family of the dead. Secondly fairplay to Chris for opening the thread and for the other mods here to moderate it and update it.

Has anyone any news on the driver. I do believe he is awake in hospital.

i've heard that when he was taken out of accoma he had a seizure which is a sign of brain swelling(damage) which may render him as being unchargable in the eyes of the law. just rumors though