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€25m pi**ed up against the wall on Unions

  • 19-07-2010 02:08PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭


    Regardless of the country being fiscally f**ked, the below is an absolute outrage but unsurprising given who was behind the genius idea....
    wrote:

    By DANIEL McCONNELL and MAEVE SHEEHAN

    Sunday July 18 2010

    THE Government, using taxpayers' money, has provided a staggering €25m "slush fund" to unions involved in social partnership since 2004, a Sunday Independent investigation has revealed.

    On foot of our recent inquires, senior government sources have revealed that the amount given to the unions will be halved next year.

    Fine Gael's PJ Sheehan, who provided some of the figures to this newspaper, branded the monies as a "slush fund" that former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern set up to "keep everyone happy".

    Despite unions threatening to disrupt the country with strikes during the recession, and the end of social partnership last December, monies are still being paid out.

    And the extent of the State's financial support for the unions has been branded as "shocking" by Mr Sheehan.

    Figures show that Batt O'Keeffe's Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation provided more than €10m of the €25m "slush fund". A further €11.4m was paid by the HSE as part of HSE Partnership forum.

    This newspaper's research also shows that Mr O'Keeffe's department has channelled €10.2m into the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU) for the "training and advice of trade union officials" since 2004.

    Explaining the payout, Mr O'Keeffe said: "An annual grant is paid to assist the Irish Congress of Trade Unions in meeting the cost of providing its Education, Training and Advisory Services (ETAS), which provides training and advice for union officials and activists in affiliated unions."

    The grants paid by the department to meet costs incurred by the ICTU in the operation of ETAS may cover up to 80 per cent of expenditure on training and advisory services for union officials and activists, he said.

    In addition to that €10.2m spend, a further €1.1m has been paid out to social partners the ICTU, the employers' association IBEC and the Construction Industry Federation since 2007 as part of a Work Innovation Fund. Again, according to Mr O'Keeffe, this fund was designed "to support a range of social partner practices impacting on workplace innovation".

    Last night it emerged that Mr O'Keeffe is intending to halve the subvention for ICTU training services next year.

    A spokesman for the minister said: "The minister will closely monitor the State subvention and keep open the option to revise downwards the amount of money spent on it where competitive pressures and fewer public resources demand that such steps be taken."

    Also, Fas has committed €3.89m to yet another learning initiative for low-skilled workers. More than €1.2m has already been paid to the ICTU between August 2008 and January this year.

    The ICTU won the contract to manage the project, which runs until September this year. The money comes out of the Fas budget.

    On top of these funds, figures reveal that another €3m or so has been paid out to welfare groups, charitable organisations and cross-border groups since 2004. Fine Gael said this fund shows the extent of how "Bertie Ahern sought to buy people off to keep the show on the road".

    Mr Sheehan said, through his spokesman, that he asked for the information as part of a fact-finding exercise and was truly shocked at how much is being paid out to unions.

    Our revelations come weeks after Siptu couldn't explain a €2.3m training fund from Mary Harney's Department of Health.

    The department did not attach any terms or conditions setting out how the €2.3m fund paid to Siptu over several years should be spent.

    This money was subsequently used to fund at least 31 overseas trips involving senior civil servants and trade union officials to destinations such as the US, Australia and Hong Kong.

    Concerns over the fund's lack of proper accounting were first raised by auditors in the HSE. The department's money had been channelled through the HSE to Siptu.


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    So is it safe to say that the ICTU is a bunch of whores now? Since we're paying them to **** us I can't see what else we could call them...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 127.0.0.1


    tl:dr
    Not only the state is controlled by these overglorified lobby groups, they also pay them :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Probably not a bad government strategy.
    Get them hooked on free government money and if they get a bit uppity, turn off the tap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,457 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I dont see why unions should get any state money when all they do is reduce the competitiveness of the country and make it extremely difficult to implement even the most reasonable and necessary changes to work practices, pay and conditions, etc. I willl accept they do some good in defending workers rights but why should this be paid for through taxes? Maybe the unions should take a levy from the wages of the people they are supposed to be representing. At least that way workers would take more interest in their union and would ensure they have decent people representing them instead of the person with a beard who shouts the loudest! Unions have far too much power in this country. I know people who were forced to protest during the strikes last year on public sector pay cuts even though they did not agree with the strikes and were never given the opportunity may the union to express their views (no ballot). The union leaders just heard the word cuts and were up in arms straight away and everyone had to go along with them or they would be labelled "scabs".


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,555 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Sleepy wrote: »
    So is it safe to say that the ICTU is a bunch of whores now? Since we're paying them to **** us I can't see what else we could call them...
    Brilliant negotiators?

    Lets not kid ourselves who'll use the money in the funds here; that is not going to reach the regular workers after all! It will be used to do "study trips" and "investigate how other countries do X, Y or Z" in exotic countries.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,903 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Nody wrote: »
    Brilliant negotiators?

    negotiators???

    Bertie: 'would you like a lot of money to......"train"......your members?' nod...wink...wink

    ICTU: 'Free money? ......Why not!'


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 127.0.0.1


    I wonder why union members are like sheep and never question why their unshaven "leaders" are getting 6 figure salaries


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭MrDarcy


    You could only imagine how utterly lifechanging that type of funding would be to small business start-ups, allowing people to get off the dole and get into self employment. Instead it is forked out to the cossetted classes in our society who hold the rest of us to ransom time and time again. It's nothing less than revolting and sickening to see the state the country is in and money of this order handed over to organisations who have had no small part to play in the fact that this country is now bankrupt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,457 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    127.0.0.1 wrote: »
    I wonder why union members are like sheep and never question why their unshaven "leaders" are getting 6 figure salaries

    If you asked the union leader he'd probably say something like "All animals are equal but some are more equal than other".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭Sizzler


    127.0.0.1 wrote: »
    I wonder why union members are like sheep and never question why their unshaven "leaders" are getting 6 figure salaries
    The lemmings who take to the streets following the likes of David Begg and his loudpspeaker banging on about workers rights and how his "comrades" are struggling to survive on public service salaries, the irony! Why doesnt he take a pay cut and join them instead of taking €125k a year? Clowns paying his wages.

    €25m to apparently help educate Begg & O'Connor's minnions roger the government for years to come.

    Its quite obvious Ahern gave these lads a robust platform to screw the public purse for decades to come and Cowen, Lenihan and now Batman don't have a breeze how to sort the mess out.

    Its simply unbelievable that they can cut back on public services and neccessary healthcare but yet still pony up millions to a union! What other country would this happen in?! Banana replublic.

    Can we have an audit please on exactly WTF this money is being used for? Im a taxpayer and I have a right to know!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Would it be too cynical to suggest that perhaps Bertie set up this fund so that, should the union leadership ever become too much of a threat, he or FF would have an extremely damaging story to release, and thus undermine them? He wasn't called the most skilful, the most devious,the most cunning of them all for nothing...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Whenever FF needed to deal with something for the last 10 years it was a case of throwing money at it to 'make it go away'. Or buy them off if you want to use these words...
    There was no real negotiation, it was like, fair cop guv, can I write you a cheque and what number are you thinking of?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Surely anger for this should be directed at FF rather than the unions? They are just a lobby group like any other. The decisions are ultimately made by government.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 127.0.0.1


    20Cent wrote: »
    Surely anger for this should be directed at FF rather than the unions? They are just a lobby group like any other. The decisions are ultimately made by government.

    There is plenty of anger at FF, don't be trying to deflect the blame now :rolleyes:
    Everyone knows that Fianna Fail are a bunch of useless feckers, but there is still a belief among some that the unions are the "good guys out to protect the poor worker" when in reality they are yet another and very powerful lobby group that helped drive this country to the ground


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    127.0.0.1 wrote: »
    There is plenty of anger at FF, don't be trying to deflect the blame now :rolleyes:
    Everyone knows that Fianna Fail are a bunch of useless feckers, but there is still a belief among some that the unions are the "good guys out to protect the poor worker" when in reality they are yet another and very powerful lobby group that helped drive this country to the ground

    The unions try to get the best pay and conditions they can. Running the economy is the governments job. This story sounds like another excuse to bash unions. No surprise coming from the sindo
    Lemmings, beards? Thought there were rules about name calling on boards?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 127.0.0.1


    20Cent wrote: »
    Lemmings, beards? Thought there were rules about name calling on boards?
    I have neither called them beards nor lemmings, But I did call the members "sheep" for failing to ask tough questions of their leaders
    20Cent wrote: »
    The unions try to get the best pay and conditions they can.
    How would you feel about the government handing money to another lobby/interest groups? I dont know lets say the bankers and developers, oh wait ...

    20Cent wrote: »
    Running the economy is the governments job.
    What about handing money out to organizations who are not democraticaly elected by the people of this country and have shown the willingness to hold the country and its people ransom, is that also the governments job?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    €25m pissed away on unions. That's about 0.02% of the amount pissed away on banks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    dvpower wrote: »
    Probably not a bad government strategy.
    Get them hooked on free government money and if they get a bit uppity, turn off the tap.
    I think it was a case of give them money because they are uppity and if they get more uppity give them more money.

    Until the recent economic unpleasantness, the unions were one of the groups the government looked after. Remember that when Bertie made his famous suicide remarks targeting those who did not agree with his economic policies, it was in front of an audience of guffawing trade unionists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    ardmacha wrote: »
    €25m pissed away on unions. That's about 0.02% of the amount pissed away on banks.

    Yeah, the usual suspects conveniently forget that it is the private-sector banks that have brought us to where we are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 127.0.0.1


    ardmacha wrote: »
    €25m pissed away on unions. That's about 0.02% of the amount pissed away on banks.

    One crime does not excuse another crime


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    127.0.0.1 wrote: »
    I have neither called them beards nor lemmings, But I did call the members "sheep" for failing to ask tough questions of their leaders


    How would you feel about the government handing money to another lobby/interest groups? I dont know lets say the bankers and developers, oh wait ...



    What about handing money out to organizations who are not democraticaly elected by the people of this country and have shown the willingness to hold the country and its people ransom, is that also the governments job?

    Apologies it was others calling names.

    But sheep? Do you know how unions work? I´ve been to over a dozen meeting this year and had hundreds of emails. Everything is discussed argued, there are different factions and votes are cast. Its a democratic process. What is the alternative?

    I´m totally against the bailouts of the banks particularly the zombie ones, also against all the wastage I see.

    A one day strike, not answering some phones and an overtime ban in the passport office has not been "holding the country to ransom".

    If you want to direct your anger somewhere I suggest FF.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭RuggieBear


    wonder if 25mil would fund a cystic fibrosis ward?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,044 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The_Thing wrote: »
    Yeah, the usual suspects conveniently forget that it is the private-sector banks that have brought us to where we are.
    You're deluding yourself if you think we only have the banks to blame. We have a political class and ourselves to blame too. Why can't a lot of Irish people ever accept any personal responsibility for stuff? :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 127.0.0.1


    20Cent wrote: »
    Apologies it was others calling names.

    But sheep? Do you know how unions work? I´ve been to over a dozen meeting this year and had hundreds of emails. Everything is discussed argued, there are different factions and votes are cast. Its a democratic process. What is the alternative?

    I´m totally against the bailouts of the banks particularly the zombie ones, also against all the wastage I see.

    A one day strike, not answering some phones and an overtime ban in the passport office has not been "holding the country to ransom".

    If you want to direct your anger somewhere I suggest FF.

    I have plenty of anger to go about, and no I havent forgoten about FF

    Next time you are at a meeting ask as simple question

    "Why are our esteemed leaders earning 6 figure salaries?"

    See how that one goes down :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    You're deluding yourself if you think we only have the banks to blame. We have a political class and ourselves to blame too. Why can't a lot of Irish people ever accept any personal responsibility for stuff?

    Fair enough. But it is similar to the usual assertion on this forum that the public service is somehow to blame, rather than the politicians elected by the public to set public policy which directs that service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭Sizzler


    ardmacha wrote: »
    €25m pissed away on unions. That's about 0.02% of the amount pissed away on banks.
    The_Thing wrote: »
    Yeah, the usual suspects conveniently forget that it is the private-sector banks that have brought us to where we are.

    The same banks that were "regulated" by one Pat Neary, you guessed it a civil servant !

    Vicious circle, a clueless dept of finance, a regulator napping on the job, unions seizing on an opportunity to nail the govt when there was a few bob floating around, all intrinsically linked to contribute to the financial downfall of the country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Vicious circle, a clueless dept of finance, a regulator napping on the job, unions seizing on an opportunity to nail the govt when there was a few bob floating around, all intrinsically linked to contribute to the financial downfall of the country.

    There is a difference. The Dept of Finance, Central Bank etc did not in any sense do their job and can blamed for this.

    The Unions simply did do their job. If the government and banks and so on declared the boom to be real and lasting then of course unions and other people asked for a share. Some people here seem to think that anyone who benefitted from the boom should have conducted an alternative macro economic analysis to the professionals and refrained from participation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    RuggieBear wrote: »
    wonder if 25mil would fund a cystic fibrosis ward?
    or vaccines to prevent cancer for the little girls of this country...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    murphaph wrote: »
    You're deluding yourself if you think we only have the banks to blame. We have a political class and ourselves to blame too. Why can't a lot of Irish people ever accept any personal responsibility for stuff? :rolleyes:

    I've asked this in another thread; given that I :

    a) didn't vote FF
    b) didn't borrow too much
    c) lived within in my means, charging a fair wage

    ....what "personal responsibility" should I take for "stuff" ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    ardmacha wrote: »
    There is a difference. The Dept of Finance, Central Bank etc did not in any sense do their job and can blamed for this.

    The Unions simply did do their job. If the government and banks and so on declared the boom to be real and lasting then of course unions and other people asked for a share. Some people here seem to think that anyone who benefitted from the boom should have conducted an alternative macro economic analysis to the professionals and refrained from participation.

    Well if thats the attitude, then sure didnt the banks etc do their jobs.. They made as much money as they could, walked away with a fortune and left the mess for us to pick up.. Developers did the same, jumped on the bandwagon, and spend our kids futures..

    Forcing the hand of an inept government while still taking slush funds is just as corrupt as all the other goings on that have left this country on the brink...


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