Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

How would the PDs do now?

  • 19-07-2010 12:33PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭


    When the PDs were around they were much maligned for being too right wing.
    Given the amount of antipathy towards the public service wages and the political power of the Unions now do you think the PDs would poll a lot higher if they were still around?

    Discuss...


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,903 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    When the PDs were around they were much maligned for being too right wing.

    Discuss...

    would that be the PDs who sat around and watched Bertie throw around money for 10 years?

    or the 'secret PD' MCCreevy as Finance Minister - yes he really tackled the issue of pay didn't he?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    It amazes me when people still talk of the PDs as a party in their own right. The PDs were only ever a FF splinter party where the chief difference between the PDs & FF was personality based rather then policy based, much like Labour & National Labour in the 1930s & 1940s.

    The myth that the PDs were an economically right wing yet socially liberal party is exploded by any customary analysis of their time in power, the sooner we accept that it was the entire political establishment who adopted the premise of low taxation & inducements for FDI the sooner we accept that the PDs were just like any other Irish party complete with corporate donations, political patronage, gombeen politicians etc.

    The last thing the country needs is a PDs part deux, we're still a long, long way away from mopping up the mess from the when the PDs as a political entity were last in a position of influence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,457 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Given the amount of antipathy towards the public service wages and the political power of the Unions now do you think the PDs would poll a lot higher if they were still around?

    I dont think the PDs would poll any higher now because they didnt exactly cover themselves in glory before. I think there is room for a decent right wing alternative now though. Im sure there would be an appetite for this now and with some strong leadership it could get a lot of support. FF have lost practically all of their support, a lot of people wont vote FG, especially with Enda as leader, and I really hope the polls are wrong and people have enough sense not to vote Labour, and as for the Greens, well I dont think they really come into it. We need something new in Irish politics or we will just elect what is seen as the least worst alterative to FF and probably end up back with FF in power within a decade.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Right Wing or just opportunists?

    When PD's like Mae Sexton can jump ship to Labour, you have to wonder how committed their ideologies actually were..


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,434 ✭✭✭doc_17


    I don't think the PDs would have escaped the blame of the past ten years given that they stood lock step with fianna fail when they were wrecking the country.

    The PDs calling for fiscal responsibility? That would be like having Ivor callely calling for reform of expeses regime.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    I always thought that there would be plenty of room for a liberal party in Ireland.

    But hindsight has shown that there isn't

    If the PD's did re-materialise, they wouldnt be able to attract the caliber of candidates they had in the past.

    In my hypothetical scenario, the above coupled with a tarnished past wouldn't see them get more than 1-2% of the vote, if even


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,434 ✭✭✭doc_17


    people need leaders to follow. Here our leaders try to follow the people and lick their ass. I'd rather have the PDs (as bad and all as they were) than the greens


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    This post has been deleted.
    You might be interested in this donegalfella, in fact maybe you should consider joining up:
    http://irishliberalparty.org/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    This post has been deleted.

    Well.... there was one available and we didnt vote for them when we could.
    Attitudes have changed now but I dont think they have to any huge extent.

    This post has been deleted.

    Because again they didnt before.
    I voted for the local PD candidate in the last general election (me and about 400 others) The candidate stood no chance because he was totally unknown.

    I know we are all discussing in hypotheticals... by best guess is they would be (again) doomed to failure


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    You should read 'Breaking the Mould' by Stephen Collins.

    One of the hardest things to do is to create a political party.
    It's not just about ideas it's about having thousands of people who'll volunteer, hand out leaflets, knock on doors and of course a supply of money to pay for things you can't get people to do for free.

    In this regard: Labour, FG, FF are extremly strong and very difficult to compete with. So much so it means that they can get away with having pretty poor politicians.

    The PDs failed for many reasons. I think the water shed moment was when Pat Cox left. It wasn't just the loss of very capable politician, it was the loss of his entire team of volunteers and back room operations he had brought to the PDs.

    I think it is tragedy that the party failed. As a poiltical party you'll find it hard to have a collection of so many bright people together that have passed though the doors of the PDs.

    Think about this for a potential PD cabinet:

    Geraldine Kennedy, Bobby Molloy, Dessie O'Malley, Mary Harney, Michael McDowell, Pat Cox, Liz O'Donnell, Mary Harney and Colm O'Gorman.

    You have more brains there than any poitical cabinet we have ever had.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,457 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Think about this for a potential PD cabinet:

    Geraldine Kennedy, Bobby Molloy, Dessie O'Malley, Mary Harney, Michael McDowell, Pat Cox, Liz O'Donnell, Mary Harney and Colm O'Gorman.

    You have more brains there than any poitical cabinet we have ever had.

    And of course Molloy was succeeded by Noel Grealish who I think deserves a mention too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    You should read 'Breaking the Mould' by Stephen Collins.

    A good read alright however Collins, impartial as he is meant to be, i feel is ideologically quite close to the PDs (hmm i wonder why) as such i think he treated his subject matter in a less critical manner then one might expect. (although later editions might be more critical seeing as i read mine before their demise.)
    The PDs failed for many reasons. I think the water shed moment was when Pat Cox left. It wasn't just the loss of very capable politician, it was the loss of his entire team of volunteers and back room operations he had brought to the PDs.

    PDs organisation was, just like any other party, really based on its elected members constituency organisations. I'd argue the moment the party organisation went into terminal decline was when they lost a large amount of TDs in 1989 and then subsequently went into Government with the party & man who they split from in the first place. After that it was clear the PDs were just a cadre party more concerned with participation in national Gov. then building a genuine party organisation. Despite the highs and lows of subsequent years it was really all based around a small number of the same figures & families who were there since day one.

    Think about this for a potential PD cabinet:

    Geraldine Kennedy, Bobby Molloy, Dessie O'Malley, Mary Harney, Michael McDowell, Pat Cox, Liz O'Donnell, Mary Harney and Colm O'Gorman.

    Not overly impressive and too many egos. Perhaps in the late 1980s you could argue that these people would have been great cabinet but time moved on and the PDs stayed the same.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    A good read alright however Collins, impartial as he is meant to be, i feel is ideologically quite close to the PDs (hmm i wonder why) as such i think he treated his subject matter in a less critical manner then one might expect. (although later editions might be more critical seeing as i read mine before their demise.)
    I thought it was very objective. It was critical of many of the blunders the PDs made. It didn't leave out any of their cock ups.
    Not overly impressive and too many egos. Perhaps in the late 1980s you could argue that these people would have been great cabinet but time moved on and the PDs stayed the same.
    I am now wondering on your own bias :-)


Advertisement