Bank of Ireland : 750 jobs lost

hinault

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0716/boi.html

RichardAnd

It's spread over the UK too and it's over a two year basis so this isn't as bad as it seems. Hardly good news mind.

Makes sense, what are all the folks who dealt with all the mortgage approvals, life insurance etc during the boom doing now ?

deise blue

Indeed it could be far worse , the IBOA will ensure that all redundancies will be on a voluntary basis which will hopefully include incentivised early retirement.

ei.sdraob

Well their investment manager who tried to push me on stocks/hedge funds a month or two before Lehmans fell :P is definitely not around anymore (i had a bad feeling then so said no), and rightly so

tho I fell sorry for the clerks most of them are nice people and not really highly paid

silverharp

I still dont think its fair that these bankrupt banks are allowed to let their staff swan into the sunset with pensions and juicy redundancy payments intact when they are being paid for by ordinary taxpayers.

deise blue

silverharp wrote: »

I still dont think its fair that these bankrupt banks are allowed to let their staff swan into the sunset with pensions and juicy redundancy payments intact when they are being paid for by ordinary taxpayers.

I think the Banks would probably agree with you in that they would certainly prefer to simply fire people.

They are aware however that both BOI and AIB are hugely unionised and such action would not be tolerated , nor would the Government countenance forced redundancies.

We should not forget that the vast majority of Bank staff were not involved in the decision making that so altered our economy.

silverharp

deise blue wrote: »

I think the Banks would probably agree with you in that they would certainly prefer to simply fire people.

They are aware however that both BOI and AIB are hugely unionised and such action would not be tolerated , nor would the Government countenance forced redundancies.

We should not forget that the vast majority of Bank staff were not involved in the decision making that so altered our economy.

the facts are the facts but I dont buy the "not involved" argument. The same could be said of the hotel business or any others where businesses have gone into liquidation. The point is "their" redundancy payments are dependant on taxpayer bailout money, when all their contracts "ought" to have been torn up a couple of years back.

WalterMitty

Only 750? great, taxpayers money is being used to a)keep these dogs alive and b)keep excessive staff levels as it would be politically damaging to fire a few thousand c) staff got pay increases in past year in line woth some pay agreement that should have been ditched d) the pension shortfall was also paid off with taxpayers money.

Afriggin joke in a joke of a country.

Tipp Man

silverharp wrote: »

I still dont think its fair that these bankrupt banks are allowed to let their staff swan into the sunset with pensions and juicy redundancy payments intact when they are being paid for by ordinary taxpayers.

The banks are practically state owned now and when you work for the state in this country its quids in for the workers and its the taxpayer that pays. Big pensions funded by taxpayers are order of the day for all state workers so why not the banks as well

Welease

silverharp wrote: »

I still dont think its fair that these bankrupt banks are allowed to let their staff swan into the sunset with pensions and juicy redundancy payments intact when they are being paid for by ordinary taxpayers.

Why not? Isn't that how the government treats all it's employees irrespective of performance?

Sleepy

BOI have been reducing staff steadily over the past few months already...

I know the branch where my mother works is running on a skeleton staff and is only kept going by unpaid O/T.

Non story really.

tdinline

FYI Most BOI staff have not had any pay increases in the last 2 years. Staff levels have been steadily reduced and remaining ordinary level staff are forced into taking on extra jobs, working extra hours for no payment and take a serious amount of grief from the public and management.. It's the usual story, the ordinary workers are paying for the screw ups of senior management. I understand that costs have to be reduced, but I hope that it applies to all levels of staff.

nesf

WalterMitty wrote: »

Only 750? great, taxpayers money is being used to a)keep these dogs alive and b)keep excessive staff levels as it would be politically damaging to fire a few thousand c) staff got pay increases in past year in line woth some pay agreement that should have been ditched d) the pension shortfall was also paid off with taxpayers money.

Afriggin joke in a joke of a country.

Please don't refer to bank workers as dogs on this forum.

Kalimah

tdinline wrote: »

FYI Most BOI staff have not had any pay increases in the last 2 years. Staff levels have been steadily reduced and remaining ordinary level staff are forced into taking on extra jobs, working extra hours for no payment and take a serious amount of grief from the public and management.. It's the usual story, the ordinary workers are paying for the screw ups of senior management. I understand that costs have to be reduced, but I hope that it applies to all levels of staff.

I'd agree with that from what I know as an ex B of I employee. It was ever thus in the bank. Somone earlier mentioned that the banks were highly unionised. I kind of doubt that now after the strike of 1992 when a raft of people left/were expelled from the union. It hasn't had the same bite since:(

Riskymove

nesf wrote: »

Please don't refer to bank workers as dogs on this forum.

tbf I read taxpayers money being used to

a)keep these dogs alive

as a reference to the Banks rather than bank workers

nesf

Riskymove wrote: »

tbf I read taxpayers money being used to as a reference to the Banks rather than bank workers

Possibly. If that was the case, no problem.

deise blue

Kalimah wrote: »

I'd agree with that from what I know as an ex B of I employee. It was ever thus in the bank. Somone earlier mentioned that the banks were highly unionised. I kind of doubt that now after the strike of 1992 when a raft of people left/were expelled from the union. It hasn't had the same bite since:(

The IBOA now has more members than it did prior to the 1992 strike.

In recent years recruitment has dramatically increased due to well founded fears regarding job losses allied to the possible dimunition of terms and conditions.

Kalimah

deise blue wrote: »

The IBOA now has more members than it did prior to the 1992 strike.

In recent years recruitment has dramatically increased due to well founded fears regarding job losses allied to the possible dimunition of terms and conditions.

Actually I didn't know that. I was in the IBOA until 2002 when I left the bank. It was blooming hard to get young people to join at all and where I was in the call centre the union was very neccessary. How times have changed.

Sleepy

deise blue wrote: »

The IBOA now has more members than it did prior to the 1992 strike.

In recent years recruitment has dramatically increased due to well founded fears regarding job losses allied to the possible dimunition of terms and conditions.

The numbers don't matter so much these days. Internet banking and cash machines weren't as prevalent as they were in '92. Social welfare is handled through An Post rather than cheques which are cashed in branches and most people are paid electronically instead of with cash or cheques which have to be cashed in branch.

An IBOA strike would have to last weeks on end to have any serious impact in the modern world, management and any staff that disagreed with the strike (or didn't want to adversely affect their chances of promotion) or just realised that a strike would hurt them far more than the bank. The banking unions have been neutered by technology and the modern world.

gerupouvit

my bro works at boi presently....25 yr old male, dont think he earns enough to qualify for this redundancy- believe it or not very slightly above minimum wage- he cant wait to get out- works late with NO overtime most days due to skeletal staff in branches (everybody takes on a couple of roles)
queues are out the door, off the wall every day, they cant cope with the sheer volume of footfall thru the branches.(im a cust i know :mad:)
who suffers? their hundreds of thousands of CUSTOMERS. Who gets the brunt? the likes of FRONTLINERS like him, mopping up the greed for the bigwigs...
its 'for the brand he sed they wer told LOL:( 'we are the tallest of seven dwarves' :eek: stfu CHIEF EXECS IN BOI AND AIB HAVE ****ED US ALL...cudnt give a **** bout staff or customers
he young enough to train again and do something else thank jebus...its the colleagues who joined a 'job for life' with boi really suffer :mad:
btw i reckin '750' is testing the water....

Barr

Bet it will be the frontline staff that will be hit and they aint well paid anyways.

gerupouvit

Barr wrote: »

Bet it will be the frontline staff that will be hit and they aint well paid anyways.

my bro has sed apparently most young staff want out. they wanna leg it, sinking ship. bt higher ups want ppl on 80kplus a yr out, cost effective!

deise blue

Sleepy wrote: »

The numbers don't matter so much these days. Internet banking and cash machines weren't as prevalent as they were in '92. Social welfare is handled through An Post rather than cheques which are cashed in branches and most people are paid electronically instead of with cash or cheques which have to be cashed in branch.

An IBOA strike would have to last weeks on end to have any serious impact in the modern world, management and any staff that disagreed with the strike (or didn't want to adversely affect their chances of promotion) or just realised that a strike would hurt them far more than the bank. The banking unions have been neutered by technology and the modern world.

True , the IBOA would have to be a lot more imaginative in the unlikely event that we ever again see a Bank strike , what is however indisputable is that unionised Banks will secure far better conditions than employees in non unionised financial institutions , one has only to consider the vastly superior redundancy terms offered by Ulster Bank to those offered by Anglo.

As you say times have indeed changed to the extent that our major Banks ,given their tenuous financial situations ,can ill afford industrial action something which the IBOA are well aware of.

Equally given the State's involvement in our Banks the Government are not going to countenance any strike that will further damage our reputation abroad.

Given the above and to keep the union onside
and to maintain whatever fragile staff morale is left I think we will see an incentivised package aimed at older, better paid staff.

soden12

Good to hear that those who have benefitted from being in the cosy 2nd public service of this country finally get a dose of reality.

No more subsidised mortgages and loans, no more subsidised loans for their BMWs, no more short working days, no more treating ordinary customers like rubbish whilst kowtowing to Seanie Fitz and the boys.

soden12

gerupouvit wrote: »

my bro works at boi presently....25 yr old male, dont think he earns enough to qualify for this redundancy- believe it or not very slightly above minimum wage- he cant wait to get out- works late with NO overtime most days due to skeletal staff in branches .

Works late ? At my local bank you'd be crushed in the exodus of staff at a minute to five...

uvox

The IBOA's only objection to NAMA was that it could lead to jobs losses for their own members due to consolidation. Otherwise, they endorsed it. Contrary to their posturing on the position, in fact their members benefited from banking strategy, notably in the area of bonuses and discounts on their own products, without a whimper of the possible consequences.

They should get used to the layoffs. There are a lot more coming in that sector.

The question is why has it take so long when every other industry has suffered so badly.

jaffa20

soden12 wrote: »

Works late ? At my local bank you'd be crushed in the exodus of staff at a minute to five...

The work doesn't stop once the doors are closed at 5pm you know?

BOI staff did not get pay raises unlike AIB (as it seems) over the last two years. Staff have been let go continiously as many are on temporary contracts for years. The recent news was not much of a shock but there was never any annoucment of voluntary reduncancy, just an annoucement that 750 jobs will be lost over the next 2 years.

I do agree that there needs to be a total overhaul of the management system within BOI as there are too many senior staff who are overpaid for the duties that they carry out.

I think people should think twice before taking out on the frontline staff in branches and clerical workers who deal with customers over the phone when they are having just as hard a time as the rest of us and had no involvement in the banking crisis.

waster81

Come on all bank staff profited from the decisions made by management.

They enjoyed increase in share price if they purchased them at a discount im sure.

WHy are bank staff different most other people have taken a 15-20% pay decrease. Have bank staff?

They have lavish pensions which a lot dont have to contribute to.

Absolute idiots in the banks, that made crazy decisions.

All through the organistion they are incompetent people making decisons.

So guess its about time they started cutting salaries, losing jobs, contribute more to pensions, started opening on days that suit their customers ie saturdays when most people can actually get to a bank without having to take time off

gerupouvit

are you for real.....boi have a pension crisis atm....boi workers are low paid, and told to sell sell sell boi only care about figures, they are a machine, work on performance base, quarterly reviews but no increase till 2012, sickos. MONEY MONEY. stop buryin our heads, boi and aib are *laughing all the way to the bank* STAFF AND CUSTOMERS SUFFER

waster81

Pension crisis because employees arent contributing a lot to the penions.

No pay increase until 2012, why exactly do you think they should be different, there are thousands of people not getting pay increases or even looking for them

If bank employees dont like their jobs, they can leave plenty of other motivated people willing to take thier jobs

gerupouvit

no your wrong pal thats not why the pension is ****ed.
because they are very low paid. its all performance based but thats frozen. the grief that boi workers, and aib. put up with. ppl think ah yeh the banks, rant! **** this first chance i get im out.
saying again, frontline get the grief, the abuse. if i lived in a mansion in dalkey id prob need a kick up the hole also but no il struggle month to month...


such a mental company EUROS EUROS EUROS

waster81

gerupouvit wrote: »

no your wrong pal thats not why the pension is ****ed.
because they are very low paid. its all performance based but thats frozen. the grief that boi workers, and aib. put up with. ppl think ah yeh the banks, rant! **** this first chance i get im out.
saying again, frontline get the grief, the abuse. if i lived in a mansion in dalkey id prob need a kick up the hole also but no il struggle month to month...


such a mental company EUROS EUROS EUROS

Bank employees contribute very little to their pensions, and those before a certain year pay nothing.

everyone gets grief at work from their customers, all bank employees are part of the same institution, they were happy to look at their supervisors getting outlandish perfomrnace for making ridiculous and stupid decisions.

If you cant handle the abuse , leave plenty more to take your place

gerupouvit

so that makes it okay then? sit there and take it like? clown.....
sort society out before you post cunty remarks
at the heart of this is the customers who queue for miles and are refused credit for stupid beurocracy, they are the lifeline
as for leaving I ****ING WISH

soden12

jaffa20 wrote: »

The work doesn't stop once the doors are closed at 5pm you know?
.

So the hordes of staff leaving at five are all bringing their work home with them ?

danbohan

soden12 wrote: »

So the hordes of staff leaving at five are all bringing their work home with them ?

so bank staff are like our wonderful teachers now working 120 hours per week , how wonderful. do i believe either , no

gerupouvit

danbohan wrote: »

so bank staff are like our wonderful teachers now working 120 hours per week , how wonderful. do i believe either , no

in most cases yes. they do take work home with them. as for an exodus at 5pm? wat branch are u? i understand they close at 4, administration till 6(ish)? i want your branch?

waster81

What percentage to bank employees contribute to their pension-3 or 4%
What decrease have they taken in pay. - none and some actually received a pay rise becasue the banks were making a profit!

What work are they taking home? Would it contain personal customer details!

If your that disenchanted you can leave, dont be complaining about hours worked, no pay rise til 2012 god imagine!

Talk to all those who have taken 15-20% decrease in pay.

Sympathy for bank employees who as an institution caused the mess we are in, is pretty scarce, be happy you got your job

All bank employees working until 6 that will be the day. Guess they are all working during the 1 hour lunch break when the banks closed, no way that some staff could stay between 12.30 and 1.30 and provide a service and the opening at 10 whats the about.

mikemac

waster81 wrote: »

What work are they taking home? Would it contain personal customer details!

That doesn't happen.
If you wanted to get yourself fired from a bank, that is the fastest possible way to achieve it.
You'd be fired for this far sooner then for stealing

Unless you are in management or some project team and told to do it

Banks are open at lunch, not sure what branch you use.
In many towns, lots of shops close at lunch while the banks remain open.

waster81

feelingstressed wrote: »

That doesn't happen.
If you wanted to get yourself fired from a bank, that is the fastest possible way to achieve it.
You'd be fired for this far sooner then for stealing

Unless you are in management or some project team and told to do it

Banks are open at lunch, not sure what branch you use.
In many towns, lots of shops close at lunch while the banks remain open.

So what work are they taking home?

I should hope they would be fired if personal details are taken home.

Not open in the town Im in.

http://www.boi.ie/html/gws/locator/index.html#0

Open from 10 yes 10 in the morning until 12.30 then open again from 1.30 to 4.

Many shops stay open at lunch time while the bank remains closed, I can still get lunch in one shop etc there is always one shop open while the bank is always closed. Terrible service.

mikemac

waster81 wrote: »

They enjoyed increase in share price if they purchased them at a discount im sure.

Lots of companies have this, I worked in a US multi national and we got discounts on purchasing shares. Irish banks aren't unique here.
You pay benefit in kind tax on the discount so not a huge saving

waster81 wrote: »

WHy are bank staff different most other people have taken a 15-20% pay decrease. Have bank staff?

I'm reading a thread at the top of this forum about 70% of private sector staff have not taken a paycut.
Most have lost 15%-20%?
Realy, over half the workforce in Ireland? Or are you throwing out generalizations?

waster81 wrote: »

Absolute idiots in the banks, that made crazy decisions.

Yep, that girl who cashes the cheques makes crazy decisions as did the mortage officer who gave out loans when people used undeclared credit union loan or loans from parents as a house deposit and then bumped up overtime earnings, the mortgage officer is branch staff and also crazy.

soden12 wrote: »

No more subsidised mortgages and loans, no more subsidised loans for their BMWs, no more short working days,

Again, benefit in kind tax on any subsidised loan or mortgage.
AIB staff used to get fee free current accounts, now they offer this to everyone, even you

soden12 wrote: »

no more treating ordinary customers like rubbish

A person in a branch deals with ordinary customers or maybe you called a call centre.
If you have a complaint do you complain to a manager or vent on boards where you look for sympathy but we can do nothing?
Same goes if you get badly treated in a shop or supermarket, ask for a manager and escalate. So you got treated like rubbish, do something about it. There are courses you can do if you lack assertiveness, may help you.

waster81 wrote: »

All bank employees working until 6 that will be the day. Guess they are all working during the 1 hour lunch break when the banks closed, no way that some staff could stay between 12.30 and 1.30 and provide a service and the opening at 10 whats the about.

It's a standard working day with one hour lunch break.
If the branch closes at 4pm then staff are there until "cashing up" is done, however long it takes though generally an hour.
Not everyone stays, the cashiers and management do, other staff have their own work to do.
If it closes at 5pm, you stay another hour, it's a standard day and people do it.
So 9-5 or 10-6 but if you start at 10 then you'll be doing staff training from 9-10 often.
And yes, the staff get an lunch hour, how terrible.

Poor form that your branch is closed, talk to the manager though that link doesn't show what town that is

dvpower

BOI have shed about 2000 jobs in the last couple of years through natural wastage. They now plan to shed a further 750 over the next two years.
This is an improvement.

dvpower

waster81 wrote: »

Come on all bank staff profited from the decisions made by management.

They enjoyed increase in share price if they purchased them at a discount im sure.

Some of the perks that bank staff enjoyed over the years was bonus payments made in stock issues coupled with an option to buy extra stock in a tax efficient way and also a SAYE scheme to accumulate stock.

As a result, many bank staff had accumulated pretty big holdings of stock in their company. Ordainary bank staff have been some of the hardest hit by the share price collapse.

waster81

Didnt say banks in ireland were unique when it came to receiving shares, when the share price increased enormously due to bad decisions made all bank employees were more than happy about that, now that they have collapsed due to those same bad decisions hardly can complain.

Talk to those 300k that have lost their jobs, and see how they feel about bank employees receiving pay increases or no decrease in pay

Now it doesnt take much intellignce to cash a cheque, but id that employee sees another employee gettin bonuses, promotions due to mortgages given out of course they will behave the same.

Staff need a lunch break! But does that mean they have to close the whole bank down for customers, surely some genius in the bank could figure out a rota system!

dvpower

waster81 wrote: »

Didnt say banks in ireland were unique when it came to receiving shares, when the share price increased enormously due to bad decisions made all bank employees were more than happy about that, now that they have collapsed due to those same bad decisions hardly can complain.

You can hardly put the responsibility for bad banking decisions at the door of ordinary bank workers.

During the good times many workers got bonuses. Bank workers who got them in bank stock have suffered disproportionately in this regard, notwhitstanding the fact that most of the banks haven't had compulsory redundancies or pay cuts.

dvpower

waster81 wrote: »

Talk to those 300k that have lost their jobs, and see how they feel about bank employees receiving pay increases or no decrease in pay

You think bank management should consult with the unemployed when formulating pay policy?

noodler

Tipp Man wrote: »

The banks are practically state owned now and ...

Jumping the gun a bit there.

BOI are 36% state owned.

AIB are 18% and hope they can keep the Government's share below 50% by the end of the year but many remain sceptical.

EDIT: Anyone have the (approx) staff levels in BOI, AIB and Anglo?

I'd be especially intetested to see how many staff Anglo stand to lose if they are shut down or even if they do the good bank bad bank.

waster81

dvpower wrote: »

You think bank management should consult with the unemployed when formulating pay policy?

wow what a jump to a conclusion!

When i hear your man here complaining and moaning that he has to work harder, and is on a pay frezze, he has not had a pay cut, has not lost his job, hasnt contributed any extra to his fantastic pension, then let some one on the dole who is probably more qualified, motivated and willing to take his job.

waster81

dvpower wrote: »

You can hardly put the responsibility for bad banking decisions at the door of ordinary bank workers.

During the good times many workers got bonuses. Bank workers who got them in bank stock have suffered disproportionately in this regard, notwhitstanding the fact that most of the banks haven't had compulsory redundancies or pay cuts.

"ordinanry " bank worker. lets say this ordinary bank worker started working in the bank in 1996, spent a few years on the counter, he sees his colleague in the mortgage department handing out mortgages like there is noi tomorrow, gettingfantastic bonuses, moving up the ladder, then of course he is going to do the exact same.

So yeah the ordinary worker has some responsibility for bad decisions made. Did that ordinary worker say stop when it came to their time to hand out ridiculous mortgages to individuals, no they didnt they continued the cycle, because they wanted their promotion, bonus whatever.

dvpower

waster81 wrote: »

wow what a jump to a conclusion!

When i hear your man here complaining and moaning that he has to work harder, and is on a pay frezze, he has not had a pay cut, has not lost his job, hasnt contributed any extra to his fantastic pension, then let some one on the dole who is probably more qualified, motivated and willing to take his job.

What am I to conclude from that? That the banks should make their existing staff redundant and then make them compete with the unemployed for their jobs back?

Or that some unemployed people might think that life is unfair because they are more qualified then some people in steady jobs. (Hint: Life is unfair).

dvpower

waster81 wrote: »

"ordinanry " bank worker. lets say this ordinary bank worker started working in the bank in 1996, spent a few years on the counter, he sees his colleague in the mortgage department handing out mortgages like there is noi tomorrow, gettingfantastic bonuses, moving up the ladder, then of course he is going to do the exact same.

So yeah the ordinary worker has some responsibility for bad decisions made. Did that ordinary worker say stop when it came to their time to hand out ridiculous mortgages to individuals, no they didnt they continued the cycle, because they wanted their promotion, bonus whatever.

Its true that branch staff have been incentivised to sell bank products. There's nothing wrong with this as long as they kept to the lending policies that were given to them. I'm sure that some ordainary bank employees breached the rules and made bad decisions, but a bank employee who followed the rules that were given to them made no bad decision at all. The decision to relax the rules in recent years came from bank management.