Anyone else not feeling(new)deep house

seannash

before the bombardment let me explain.

ive always liked deep house but what is now being classed as deep house isnt how it was a few years back.

i know its mutated and shifted like other genres but for me its starting to lose it danceability.

some of it is very enjoyable to listen to but it seems to be becoming increasingly ambient like for want of a better word.

deep house used to be all about dub versions of tracks that stripped the track back to its bare bones,serious grooves and alot of soul.

the soul seems to be there but it seem to be alot more relaxed these days.
im just not getting much energy from deep house these days:(

anybody understand what im talking about

jtsuited

Going through the beatport deep house section is feckin horrendous, but it's just the same thing happening to it that has happened every other genre....

new sound (which in this case is very 'classic' sounding) becomes en vogue because of a handful of great producers putting out great tracks, and so the sh1ttier labels and artists jump on the bandwagon because the 'minimal' thing has been done to death.

There will always be those who follow the trend and conversely there will always be people who are great at what they do in whatever genre, and continue making significant indisposable music.
The rise of sh1tty eastern european minimal didn't really take away from people like Robert Hood etc., and the popularity of deep house isn't gonna ruin people like Moodymann or Theo Parrish.
There'll always be crap, is what I'm trying to say. And sites like Beatport do nothing to stem the flow.

seannash

yeah thats true.i guess i just thought deep house hadnt changed from what i remebered it to be.

no doubt what we hear now was always there but the sort of deep house i listened to and played seems a world away from what is touted as deep house now.

i almost think its too deep now and has lost if edge on the floor.its become very "nice"

ianuss

Is it that a lot of what is now being classed as deep house, is actually just tech house for the most part? Slightly deeper tech house maybe......... A huge amount of tracks lately seem to favour using chords, and the result is that a lot of what is being produced is beginning to sound generic. I think it's the same as everything else though - music wise - some tunes are brilliant, some are good, there's frikkin tonnes of mediocrity and absolutely loads of sh1te.

That's just my take on it, but to be honest, I wouldn't have the musical knowledge to chart the history of deep house, and I don't really want to get into a genre debate either.

jtsuited

nothing worse than hearing a tech-house track with a fcukin obligatory minor7add9 chord thrown in and people calling it deep house.

No it's fcukin tech house with a fcukin obligatory minor7add9 chord thrown in.

seannash

ianuss wrote: »

Is it that a lot of what is now being classed as deep house, is actually just tech house for the most part? Slightly deeper tech house maybe......... A huge amount of tracks lately seem to favour using chords, and the result is that a lot of what is being produced is beginning to sound generic. I think it's the same as everything else though - music wise - some tunes are brilliant, some are good, there's frikkin tonnes of mediocrity and absolutely loads of sh1te.

That's just my take on it, but to be honest, I wouldn't have the musical knowledge to chart the history of deep house, and I don't really want to get into a genre debate either.

nor do i want it to descend into a genre debate.

i can see what your saying about thet whole tech/deep mixup

its kinda hard to pinpoint what im saying ill agree.just think its verging on ambient territory lately.its all very atmospheric

Is mise le key

Just something i remembered from ages back.........when joey beltram made the track,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSwI2AFlki4

It was labelled as 'Deep house'......he was interviewed as saying,

"I didnt even realise i was making 'Deep house', i was still producing what i thought was just House music"

Music evolves naturally & if you just follow where you are going without trying to fit it in to some category it will sound better than something forced.......same goes in all types of music not just Rave/Dance whatever you want to call it.

jonnny68

Yes and No, some of it is quality and some is bad, it's a genre ive always liked, it used to be just "House" until someone coined the phrase Deep House, it isnt peak time music but has it's place,after people abandoned minimal they have now embraced deep house, ill give this genre another year or two before they (the cool kids (sic) move onto something else.

MikeHoncho

Yeah not into it at all. Nothing worse than this **** at peak time in a club. It has its time and place but by 2 AM I want it to be banging out.

Having said that I saw Agnes there a few months ago and enjoyed that one.

joker77

Good music is good music, sh*te music is sh*te music.

F*cking hate the genre game.

jonnny68

joker77 wrote: »

Good music is good music, sh*te music is sh*te music.

F*cking hate the genre game.

yeah me and all, these fuc**rs making up crap names for different types of music, I mean "fidget house" "grime" WTF :eek:

BaZmO*

Stop following fads and you won't ever find yourself in the position to get bored with the latest fad when it gets saturated with generic scheisse.

jonnny68

BaZmO* wrote: »

Stop following fads and you won't ever find yourself in the position to get bored with the latest fad when it gets saturated with generic scheisse.

#

this post makes perfect sense.

if people didn't jump on whatever the latest "in" genre of dance music was (or whatever the likes of Mixmag or DJ Mag say) then you wouldn't have to keep changing your genre preference every year or two when people become bored, as ive said ive liked Deep House from day 1 it's not a new thing for me, it's not my preferred style but it has it's place and there are some good tunes about, i respect the Cork Lads- Greg & Shane (Fish Go Deep) as they have championed Deep House from day 1 and are still doing it,.also International DJ's like Kerri Chandler would be the same.

seannash

lads this wasnt started as an excuse to have a go at the fad followers and let johnny roll out his "minimal kids jump to deep house" tag line

its more about how deep house has mutated from what i knew it to be.

yes maybe people are mislabeling stuff.

if someone had have asked me did i like deep house i would have been a straight up yes based on the fact i used to play alot of it but what is considered deep house now seems to be totally different t the deep stuff of a few years ago.

i fully understand that everything changes in dance music,maybe im just not a fan of this new deep house sound.

seannash

jonnny68 wrote: »

#

this post makes perfect sense.

if people didn't jump on whatever the latest "in" genre of dance music was (or whatever the likes of Mixmag or DJ Mag say) then you wouldn't have to keep changing your genre preference every year or two when people become bored, as ive said ive liked Deep House from day 1 it's not a new thing for me, it's not my preferred style but it has it's place and there are some good tunes about, i respect the Cork Lads- Greg & Shane (Fish Go Deep) as they have championed Deep House from day 1 and are still doing it,.also International DJ's like Kerri Chandler would be the same.

in your own misguided way johnny you have brought up a good point.

the stuff fish go deep and kerri chandler make is what deep house is for me.the stuff that is called deep house is alot slower and bit wishy washy.

it has its place but its seems to be this sort of deep house that dominates as opposed to the other sort

Diego Smartly

joker77 wrote: »

Good music is good music, sh*te music is sh*te music.

F*cking hate the genre game.

This is me shaking your hand my friend. Took the words right out of my mouth.

Some people need to just get out of they're arses for awhile and actually just listen to the poxy music without worrying about what it is.

A good track is a good track whether its Trance, D 'n B or "that new kind of Deep House"

joker77

As you say yourself, it's just labels.

Genres are put on music by people trying to sell the music. What Beatport says is Deep House is different than what WhatPeoplePlay, and Juno different again. I'm sure they do this for their own reasons.

Artists / DJs / people who love music, shouldn't concern themselves with genres.

seannash

Diego Smartly wrote: »

This is me shaking your hand my friend. Took the words right out of my mouth.

Some people need to just get out of they're arses for awhile and actually just listen to the poxy music without worrying about what it is.

A good track is a good track whether its Trance, D 'n B or "that new kind of Deep House"

yeah yeah yeah we all know good music is good music.

scenario for you.if i was to go to a deep house gig i dont think it would be the sort of deep house id like based on what im hearing alot lately.

the individual tracks might be good but from any deep house im hearing lately i dont think it would encourage me to get up and dance.

im simply asking if people have noticed the shift from music you can actually dance to to music you chillout to.

im not talking about the fad or the scensters im asking about how it has developed and is it a good or bad developement

seannash

joker77 wrote: »

As you say yourself, it's just labels.

Genres are put on music by people trying to sell the music. What Beatport says is Deep House is different than what WhatPeoplePlay, and Juno different again. I'm sure they do this for their own reasons.

Artists / DJs / people who love music, shouldn't concern themselves with genres.

whether you like it or not its necessary.

i play house music,i like to listen to house music.

i want to know that something i might listen to or buy is close to what i like.

we can all talk about not labeling music but i dont want to blindly shop or listen in the hopes of stumbling over something i might be interested in.
i dont go to the hard house/psytrance/gabber/dubstep sections because i really dont like listening to them

labels are necessary

joker77

A necessary evil, maybe

I'm not convinced by your argument that they're necessary.

Blindly shopping by genre is not all that different than blindly shopping.

seannash

joker77 wrote: »

A necessary evil, maybe

I'm not convinced by your argument that they're necessary.

Blindly shopping by genre is not all that different than blindly shopping.

so even seperating it into electronic music is a bad idea.

i tell you it would be very difficult to go online and sift through rock,pop,metal,ambient,classical,folk etc etc instead of heading for the electronic music section

genres are very necessary no matter how much we dont want to be boxed in by labels

BaZmO*

seannash wrote: »

the individual tracks might be good but from any deep house im hearing lately i dont think it would encourage me to get up and dance.

You should start doing drugs Sean, maybe that will help you to dance.

Zascar

I haven't really been listening to much deep house lately, I think most of it is 'just ok' but there are plenty of really nice tracks here and there. But that is pretty much bound to happen whenever a genre gets so much more popular and every spotty teenager with a copy of Ableton and a sample pack is banging out their efforts. I dunno I'm finding it hard to find my feet in anything these days, I think the sheer numbers and perhaps mass commercialisation of the whole game is having a negative effect really. It's kinda pushed the wanky snobbery to new levels which has its effects also. The genre thing is as Joker says a necessary evil - its only a guideline and people shouldn't try to get so bent out of shape about it.

I just had a quick flick through the Beatport for Deep house charts there, bit of a mixed bag, some nice stuff, some shyte, but some that I just would not call deep house. As others have said I'm currently trying to just ignore what anyone else says or thinks and just play what I like. Simple as. When playing out you are not necessarily going to get the best reception if you just play all your uber-cool super underground unknown artist kinda stuff - unless you are in one of those types of clubs. I found myself delving into a lot of stuff I loved to listen to but they are not particularity dancefloor friendly. Right now I'm just trying to go back to basics and play music that makes people dance and have a good time.

I think the whole industry just needs to take some time to go back to its roots a bit (no I do not mean old skool). Kinda like Josh Wink - "When a Banana was just a Banana"

BaZmO*

I agree with Zas, I just play stuff that I like (and it's a fairly broad selection) and when I play out (or used to) I'd do the same, as well as stuff that I knew would get people up and bopping.

As much as I hate labels, I do think they're necessary to an extent. If you didn't have them you'd have to give up your day job just to find the time to trawl through the oceans of music that's now available. And lets face it, who hasn't labels when they're describing tracks to friends, "It's like such and such or so and so"

I think one of the biggest problems with labels, and this probably ties into Sean's original point, is that people constantly label things incorrectly. I've lost count of the number of times that I've heard a track and went on line to pick up a copy and have been amazed at the category it's lumped into.

And because of mislabelling (and the pure glut of sh1t that seems to be around) I fvcking hate trawling through music sites looking for gems. Although it does kinda make it worthwhile when you do find that killer track, but it seems to be few and far between lately. Think I just miss the Friday/Saturday afternoon buzz of heading into town and being handed a pile of vinyl to pick the gems from.

Fintomiginto

joker77 wrote: »

Good music is good music, sh*te music is sh*te music.

F*cking hate the genre game.

Absolutely spot on mate.

I hate the way everything is overly pigeon holed into genres.

I do agree with most of the sentiments in previous posts though, some of todays "Deep House" sounds like "tech house" to me but once again this is another example of the genre culture.

The deep house of today defo doesn't sound like the deep house I grew up listening to my brothers and sisters playing, not enough feeling to it.

jtsuited

Interesting discussion...
Since I started buying almost exclusively from hardwax, my life has got so much easier when it comes to these things.
Because of the relatively tiny selection they have, genre filters aren't necessary.

My last shipment had all sorts of musics including dubstep, garage, techno, house, and many records could actually have been described as a mixture of all or some of them.

I think a lot of the problem with 'deep house' is that any house record that had some sort of actual jazzy-esque musicality to it was being labelled deep house and then of course beatport and the digital domain was over-run with faddish tech-house-with-a-chord type stuff.

The mass commercialisation that Zascar mentions is something that really got me down a few months ago, what with the business I'm in etc.
I've said it before and I'll say it again....the no-risk low-reward model of releasing only digital is just destroying the average quality of music in general.

I am 100% convinced that digital as a retail format is unmanageable and unsustainable for everyone. The genre filter problem which I believe is the real issue we are discussing here is merely a symptom of it imho.

And it's only going to get worse.

jtsuited

BaZmO* wrote: »

Think I just miss the Friday/Saturday afternoon buzz of heading into town and being handed a pile of vinyl to pick the gems from.

You can still do that, you know.

jonnny68

seannash wrote: »

in your own misguided way johnny you have brought up a good point.

the stuff fish go deep and kerri chandler make is what deep house is for me.the stuff that is called deep house is alot slower and bit wishy washy.

it has its place but its seems to be this sort of deep house that dominates as opposed to the other sort

I think it's you who's misguided mate not me (obligatory )


i havent been scoring the net for deep house, as everyone know im mostly into Soulful and Funky House but i think some deep house compliments both styles, totally agree what the afermentioned DJ's play is proper deep house.

ianuss

jtsuited wrote: »

I am 100% convinced that digital as a retail format is unmanageable and unsustainable for everyone.

Getting a little off topic here - but anyway. How do you think it's going to end? I mean, it just seems so big, so accessible at the moment, I don't see how it's going to die. There are too many people using it as a medium for it to fail. And companies making equipment/controllers etc are bringing out new models all the time. It seems they're investing money in new products as that's where they see the money coming from. If anything, it seems to me like vinyl is unsustainable at a commercial level. There will obviously still be sales of vinyl, as die-hard fans will stay loyal to it, but maybe not enough sales to maintain a profit.

jtsuited

ianuss wrote: »

Getting a little off topic here - but anyway. How do you think it's going to end? I mean, it just seems so big, so accessible at the moment, I don't see how it's going to die. There are too many people using it as a medium for it to fail. And companies making equipment/controllers etc are bringing out new models all the time. It seems they're investing money in new products as that's where they see the money coming from. If anything, it seems to me like vinyl is unsustainable at a commercial level.

Sorry I meant unsustainable for independent artists and labels. The download stores will always continue on the back of mostly amatuer content.

jtsuited

jonnny68 wrote: »

i havent been scoring the net for deep house, as everyone know im mostly into Soulful and Funky House

You've forgotten your Hardcore Breaks roots....man.

ianuss

jtsuited wrote: »

Sorry I meant unsustainable for independent artists and labels. The download stores will always continue on the back of mostly amatuer content.

Sorry man, I don't really follow. How does the format of music affect independent artists and labels, and their sales? I would have thought that digital was easier to generate sales from?

jtsuited

ianuss wrote: »

Sorry man, I don't really follow. How does the format of music affect independent artists and labels, and their sales? I would have thought that digital was easier to generate sales from?

Well, the market is just far far far too saturated to generate any sort of meaningful figures these days in digital. It's got to the point that you have to release vinyl to separate yourself from the masses of unadulterated sh1te on beatport. Even if it is, essentially a marketing tool, vinyl lends legitimacy and shows a commitment in this day and age.
The actual income streams for producers these days are so much more complex than simply sales alone (or at all), so unfortunately even if vinyl is a loss making format, in the long term it works out better for your bookings etc.

Well in the genres I'm in anywho. Maybe it's different for other stuff. I know for anything progressive related vinyl is completely and utterly obselete.

BaZmO*

jtsuited wrote: »

You can still do that, you know.

Oh I know. It's just finding the time!

jonnny68

jtsuited wrote: »

You've forgotten your Hardcore Breaks roots....man.

No i havent ive just been pre occupied with House (obligatory )

ThirdMan

Just a quick note regarding the OP.

Deep house has certainly changed recently, at least the stuff that's being labelled deep house.

However, some of the first tracks I downloaded from Beatport four years ago was stuff from Freerange records, which at that time was almost purely a deep house label, meaning it was largely unaffected by the minimal explosion.

The Freerange stuff was a lot more 'washy' and reserved than stuff you'd hear Kerri Chandler or Fish Go Deep play, but it certainly had no real links with minimal, or the 'tech house' back then.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I believe there is a style of 'techy' deep house that has evolved out of more traditional deep house, and while it has been swamped by a lot of the minimal ex pats, it isn't necessarily synonymous with it.

I quite like this sound, alongside more traditional cuts, and I think it's important not to throw the baby out with the bath water (at least for those who like the baby).

Is mise le key

ianuss wrote: »

Slightly deeper tech house .

jtsuited wrote: »

it's fcukin tech house with a fcukin obligatory minor7add9 chord thrown in.

jonnny68 wrote: »

I mean "fidget house" "grime" WTF :eek:

ThirdMan wrote: »

I believe there is a style of 'techy' deep house that has evolved out of more traditional deep house,

The genre debate will go on & on.........not highlighting anyones post for any reason above as the context is lost on all of them individually by me editing them so im noy having a go at anyone, but it just shows how much waffle goes on around tunes.......the whole genre nonsense is derived from people with pretensions of sophistication looking to belong to this or that trying to emerge as the new trendy way forward & being part of what is being portrayed as the cutting edge.......i think zascar nailed it by saying,

Zascar wrote: »

It's kinda pushed the wanky snobbery to new levels which has its effects also. The genre thing is as Joker says a necessary evil - its only a guideline and people shouldn't try to get so bent out of shape about it."

Sums it all up.

Just to keep to the topic from seans Original Post........if the new sound is not doing it for ya Sean, go back to the oldskool:D;)