Parent Child Spaces

ironclaw

Hi Folks,

Just wondering on this one. I know Disabled spaces have a legal right to remain free unless in possession of a valid certificate and rightly so. However many shopping centres now have parent-child spaces. I never park in them personally, but I wondering is there a legal presedent to challenge someone who does?

ironclaw

Max Power1

AFAIK theres no legal basis. You dont need a permit to park in them.

There was a thread about this here not too long ago. I often park in them, I dont see the need for them, and they are not legally enforceable.

CiniO

Max Power1 wrote: »

AFAIK theres no legal basis. You dont need a permit to park in them.

There was a thread about this here not too long ago. I often park in them, I dont see the need for them, and they are not legally enforceable.

Do you have a child or ever had one?

jimmycrackcorm

My wife often says that i'm nothing but a big child so I feel quite entitled to park in those spaces. I .

Max Power1

CiniO wrote: »

Do you have a child or ever had one?

Is there a legal basis requiring me to have in order to park there?

robtri

Max Power1 wrote: »

Is there a legal basis requiring me to have in order to park there?

no but manners and respect for other users would be nice... instead of this self indulgant attitude.

Max Power1

robtri wrote: »

no but manners and respect for other users would be nice... instead of this self indulgant attitude.

?
I was asked a stupid question and replied with an equally indignant answer.
You say I have a self indulgant attitude - are you basing that on this thread or what?

crosstownk

Groundhog Day :eek:

Anan1

The car parks are private property, so the owners could clamp if they wanted. I can't see that happening though, as it'd be too much hassle to prove. Probably easiest to just think of it as a personality test.:)

Bigcheeze

Max Power1 wrote: »

Is there a legal basis requiring me to have in order to park there?

Good news for people like you: They're private car parks so there's no legal basis for wheelchair spaces in shopping centres either.

The reason for the spaces is that parents need a wider space to lift small children out of the car. They don't need to be near the entrance, however.

I suppose the shopping centre could clamp you for parking in the parent child spaces and you can quote all the law you want for all the good it will do you.

Gooseygoosey

robtri wrote: »

no but manners and respect for other users would be nice... instead of this self indulgant attitude.

I wish all carparks had all spaces this width so that the "self indulgent" parents who do not teach their children to have a bit of respect for other people's vehicle bodywork when they fling open the doors to disembark.

Car park dings can cost €200.00 a panel to repair.

I wish that these people would have manners and respect for other peoples property. Yes that would be nice. Manners and respect.

Bigcheeze

Anan1 wrote: »

as it'd be too much hassle to prove.

Well that's the thing about private clamping....it's completely unregulated so minor issues like proof and civilised behaviour are irrelevant.

mickdw

Mother & baby types have been known to open the car door into the side of my car when messing with push chairs etc so the bigger the space they get the better. Keep them all together I say.
I doubt there is any legal basis to them but I wont be parking there anyway.

Max Power1

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Good news for people like you: They're private car parks so there's no legal basis for wheelchair spaces in shopping centres either.

The reason for the spaces is that parents need a wider space to lift small children out of the car. They don't need to be near the entrance, however.

I suppose the shopping centre could clamp you for parking in the parent child spaces and you can quote all the law for all the good it will do you.

And I could advise them that they can remove their clamp or it will be forceably removed. Clampers (private ones that is) have no basis in law either.

Anan1

Max Power1 wrote: »

And I could advise them that they can remove their clamp or it will be forceably removed. Clampers (private ones that is) have no basis in law either.

You could. Call me old fashioned, but if i'm parking on someone elses property I think it common courtesy to abide by their rules. A side benefit of this is that I don't have to carry an angle grinder around in my boot.

Bigcheeze

Max Power1 wrote: »

And I could advise them that they can remove their clamp or it will be forceably removed. Clampers (private ones that is) have no basis in law either.

That would be damage to private property.

It's pretty unlikely that you'd be able to remove it anyway.

CiniO

Max Power1 wrote: »

Is there a legal basis requiring me to have in order to park there?

I don't know. According to this thread, probably there isn't...

But I wasn't asking because of that.

I was asking, because I was wondering if you knew how easy it was to get a baby with baby carrier and a stroller out from a car on a normal paring space....

I assume you just don't.
Maybe some time in a future you'll find out - hope all parents and child parking spaces will be occupied before you get to the parking.

unkel

Not this again

Selfish ignorant poorly brought up people who don't give a damn about anyone else can of course park in disabled (or parent and child) car parking spaces, not let anyone out of a side street, not get up to give a heavily pregnant lady their seat on a bus, etc. and get away with it.

Karma will be coming your way though, get ready

CoalBucket

Max Power1 wrote: »

AFAIK theres no legal basis. You dont need a permit to park in them.

There was a thread about this here not too long ago. I often park in them, I dont see the need for them, and they are not legally enforceable.

These spaces are only seen in private car parks for public use i.e. car park owned by the shopping centre for the use of it's customers. As it is a private car park they can put their own clamping policy in place. If the spaces are monitored they can clamp you if they see fit. They have the legal right to do so.

BostonB

Next time you get a ding from a car with babies, it probably because someone without babies has taken a mother and baby slot. What goes around comes around.

The Big Red Button

Max Power1 wrote: »

AFAIK theres no legal basis. You dont need a permit to park in them.

There was a thread about this here not too long ago. I often park in them, I dont see the need for them, and they are not legally enforceable.

It's common knowledge that they're not legally enforceable. You are not making any big stance against authority or whatever it is that you think you are doing by refusing to abide by the rules of common courtesy.

Of course you "don't see the need for them." By the very fact that you made that statement I can infer that you don't have children.

As far as I can see, providing these spaces has three advantages:

1. It may, potentially, make life just that little bit easier for a parent who has just gone through childbirth, whose body is fairly wrecked, and who could badly do with the wee break of having more room to maneuvere small children/large bags in and out of the car.

2. Because of the above, it may increase business for the shop owner. Which is, of course, why these spaces are provided in the first place.

3. It decreases the chance of some little shit opening their door into the side of my car (I have no children) while I'm parked in the main car park.

I mean, I get it. It's a rule that you don't have to abide by, so you're not going to abide by it. Well done you. :rolleyes: I hope you get a great sense of satisfaction out of it.

However I'd love to see how eager you would be to "rebel" against the "authorities" (non-existant in this case) if there were a possible penalty involved. :rolleyes:

Jesus like. Assuming you don't have a disability permit, you're fit and able. Would parking a few spaces away from the door really make life that much more difficult for you?

CoalBucket

chatterpillar wrote: »

It's common knowledge that they're not legally enforceable.

Clamping on private property is not covered by legislation and therefore is entirely up to the owners to enforce as they see fit so you can be clamped for parking in one of those spaces.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/traffic-and-parking/parking_fines_and_vehicle_clamping

Clamping services are also common in car parks of hotels, hospitals, universities and shopping centres to discourage long-term parking at the expense of staff, customers or clients. Clamping on private property is not covered by legislation and owners must make sure that there are adequate signs and warnings notifying the public that clamping is in operation and that full contact details for the company enforcing the clamping are easily available.

DYLF

Max Power1 wrote: »

There was a thread about this here not too long ago. I often park in them, I dont see the need for them, and they are not legally enforceable.

clearly you've never had to try to manage with 2 young kids and a buggie in normal parking space.

i absolutly hate people who have no kids yet feel the need to park in parent and child spaces to save their poor little legs from having to walk a few extra steps.

r3nu4l

Max Power1 wrote: »

AFAIK theres no legal basis. You dont need a permit to park in them.

There was a thread about this here not too long ago. I often park in them, I dont see the need for them, and they are not legally enforceable.

Don't see the need for them? Ever tried getting a car seat out of a normal sized car parking space with cars parked either side of you?

I have. Those parent-child spaces are a God-send for people with kids.

In my local underground car park there are none of these parent-child spaces and when the place is full, if I want to park I have to stop midway into the space, get out, open the back door, take the car seat and child out and then drive the rest of the way into the space.

Two problems with this:

1. I'm holding up other drivers who are also looking for a space and I hate doing that because I'm a considerate person...unlike some people

2. If I'm on my own it means leaving my baby in a car seat on the ground while I go into the space. So I have to spend extra time looking for a safe place to put her.

So all in all it would be better if people didn't park in these spaces when they are available and instead be known for considerate parking instead of ignorant parking.

OldmanMondeo

Parent & Child spots are a god send to parents with young kids. The extra with allows you to strap your child in safetly & legally and if you have a baby in a carry cot, you need the door nearly fully open to get the child in. all without not knocking the car beside you.

As for being near the door of a shopping centre, would suit better if they were down the back to stop lazy arses using them. But i suspect the reason they do have the near the door is because most business will always look after the customer who spend more with them. A young child will cost more in foods, nappies etc then a grown adult.

dp639

Max Power1 wrote: »

AFAIK theres no legal basis. You dont need a permit to park in them.

There was a thread about this here not too long ago. I often park in them, I dont see the need for them, and they are not legally enforceable.

Max Power, why don't you see a need for them. Read down through the posts and you'll see there is a need for them. Biggest need there is for them is to avoid car's getting damaged - both the car of the kids and yours.

Yes there are no laws to prevent you from parking in them, but theres a little thing called being courteous to other people.

dp639

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

As for being near the door of a shopping centre, would suit better if they were down the back to stop lazy arses using them

Ha Ha excellent - you got it in one!!!

PopUp

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

As for being near the door of a shopping centre, would suit better if they were down the back to stop lazy arses using them. But i suspect the reason they do have the near the door is because most business will always look after the customer who spend more with them. A young child will cost more in foods, nappies etc then a grown adult.

It's not just that. Imagine trying to manouever a shopping trolley/buggy and one or more kids a couple of hundred yards across a busy car park. You try to get your toddler to hold on to the side of the trolley but toddlers are easily distracted and it only takes a split second for them to see something interesting and dash off after it. They race out between two cars, or behind a car reversing out of a spot, and they are so small they are out of some drivers' line of sight.

I don't mean to sound melodramatic. And of course, parents should (and do) keep ahold of their kids. And 99.9999999% of the time they hang on to the trolley/drivers see them/everything is absolutely fine. But it only takes a second and two hundred yards across a busy car park can genuinely be dangerous.

r3nu4l

PopUp wrote: »

But it only takes a second and two hundred yards across a busy car park can genuinely be dangerous.

Especially when most drivers have one eye out for empty parking spaces rather than both eyes open for potential problems!

Eoin

unkel wrote: »

Selfish ignorant poorly brought up people who don't give a damn about anyone else can of course park in disabled (or parent and child) car parking spaces, not let anyone out of a side street, not get up to give a heavily pregnant lady their seat on a bus, etc. and get away with it.

I seriously wouldn't equate the two. Personally I don't park in them, I like to park well away from people who often have no respect for other peoples cars - but I certainly wouldn't consider using one the same as using a disabled parking spot. That's hand-wringing of Maud Flanders magnitude IMO.

OldmanMondeo

PopUp wrote: »

It's not just that. Imagine trying to manouever a shopping trolley/buggy and one or more kids a couple of hundred yards across a busy car park. You try to get your toddler to hold on to the side of the trolley but toddlers are easily distracted and it only takes a split second for them to see something interesting and dash off after it. They race out between two cars, or behind a car reversing out of a spot, and they are so small they are out of some drivers' line of sight.

I don't mean to sound melodramatic. And of course, parents should (and do) keep ahold of their kids. And 99.9999999% of the time they hang on to the trolley/drivers see them/everything is absolutely fine. But it only takes a second and two hundred yards across a busy car park can genuinely be dangerous.

I totally agree, I have 2 young kids and another on the way. Thank feck Tesco is opening a store near our house, I will be able to mind the kids while herself gets the beer...

John_Mc

Bigcheeze wrote: »

That would be damage to private property.

It's pretty unlikely that you'd be able to remove it anyway.

Take the clamp with you after removing it and let them prove criminal damage

We used a bolt cutters to take 3 clamps off recently - very very easy.

OldmanMondeo

eoin wrote: »

I seriously wouldn't equate the two. Personally I don't park in them, I like to park well away from people who often have no respect for other peoples cars - but I certainly wouldn't consider using one the same as using a disabled parking spot. That's hand-wringing of Maud Flanders magnitude IMO.

Your post could read that all people who use P&C spaces have no respect to other peoples cars. This is not hte case. I hate any marks on my car and would dread causing any damage to someone elses, not that I have touch wood yet.

As I said before, people who use them are lasy arses and have no respect to people who need use them...

Eoin

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Your post could read that all people who use P&C spaces have no respect to other peoples cars.

It wasn't meant to read that all people who use them have no respect. But put it this way - I think the odds of getting my door dinged are far higher if I park near MPV type cars. That said, I'll have a quick glance at any car I park beside in a car park, regardless of the type.

omega man

DYLF wrote: »

clearly you've never had to try to manage with 2 young kids and a buggie in normal parking space.

i absolutly hate people who have no kids yet feel the need to park in parent and child spaces to save their poor little legs from having to walk a few extra steps.

As a parent of young kids i totally agree but i have also seen people with child car seats and no little ones in sight using them which is equally not good

unkel

eoin wrote: »

I seriously wouldn't equate the two. Personally I don't park in them, I like to park well away from people who often have no respect for other peoples cars - but I certainly wouldn't consider using one the same as using a disabled parking spot.

Your missed my point entirely

I wasn't equating anything with anything. My point was that you can do all sorts of rude / anti-social things in life and get away with it, until karma catches up with you

BostonB

eoin wrote: »

It wasn't meant to read that all people who use them have no respect. But put it this way - I think the odds of getting my door dinged are far higher if I park near MPV type cars. That said, I'll have a quick glance at any car I park beside in a car park, regardless of the type.

Theres a slight flaw in your logic. MPV's generally don't have bigger doors and a lot of them aren't any wider than regular saloon, they are just squarer. The issue with them is lifting babies in and out, or kids swinging the door open. Same on a regular car with a baby seat or kids.

For me the main culprits are dirty neglected cars, (especially inside) company cars, or flashy expensive cars. They obviously don't care. But anything with big doors, vans, suvs, coupes can also be suspect. A dirty interior with kids stuff in it, a major risk.

The exception being any car thats not new, but clean, especially inside, is less risky. As the owner is probably more careful than most.

djimi

BostonB wrote: »

Theres a slight flaw in your logic. MPV's generally don't have bigger doors and a lot of them aren't any wider than regular saloon, they are just squarer. The issue with them is lifting babies in and out, or kids swinging the door open. Same on a regular car with a baby seat or kids.

I think his logic is pretty sound tbh. Its not the car that the problem, its whats inside of them. Too many times I have seen kids swing car doors open fully and smash into the side of the car next to them, enough for me to know never park next to an MPV. The risk is just as great with a regular car full of kids, but its just harder to spot in a car park.

OldmanMondeo

djimi wrote: »

I think his logic is pretty sound tbh. Its not the car that the problem, its whats inside of them. Too many times I have seen kids swing car doors open fully and smash into the side of the car next to them, enough for me to know never park next to an MPV. The risk is just as great with a regular car full of kids, but its just harder to spot in a car park.

Child Locks sorts this out. Mine are always on. They were off once, just after I changed car and forgot to put them on in one door, the 2yo opened the door while moving, it was the 1 time I was glad of an Alarm and light going off in the car.

djimi

I wish all parents took your lead, I really do. Im not suggesting that all parents are irresponsible enough to allow their kids to smash car doors into the car parked next to them, I know that most parents arent, but unforunately there are enough parents who are irresponsible to make me suspicious of any car that looks like it might be carrying kids.

voxpop

BostonB wrote: »

Theres a slight flaw in your logic. MPV's generally don't have bigger doors and a lot of them aren't any wider than regular saloon, they are just squarer. The issue with them is lifting babies in and out, or kids swinging the door open. Same on a regular car with a baby seat or kids.

Its not the size of the car doors, its having to open the car door fully to leverage a squirming baby/toddle into and out of a child seat. Generally normal car spaces are so small that you can barely half open a door.

phill106

Saw a motorbike parked in one in dunnes, jetland, limerick last year. Couldn't believe it. Took a pic at the time, but don't have it anymore.
And no it didn't have a sidecar!

BostonB

djimi wrote: »

I think his logic is pretty sound tbh. Its not the car that the problem, its whats inside of them. Too many times I have seen kids swing car doors open fully and smash into the side of the car next to them, enough for me to know never park next to an MPV. The risk is just as great with a regular car full of kids, but its just harder to spot in a car park.

Thats my point. You park beside say a 05 MPV with immaculate paint work and clean inside and out, its far less risk than shabby 2dr Merc Coupe, or company A4.

Sam Kade

I noticed that it's mostly over sized women that park in disabled parking spaces as they are too lazy to walk any distance.

Cat Melodeon

Whether it is some dolly bird in a Golf or a middle-aged bloke in a Merc or any non-child-carrying individual in between, if they don't have kids and park in a P&C space I do my best to whack their paintwork with my trolley as I pass by, struggling with child and shopping back to my 'normal' parking space. Gives me immense pleasure.

BostonB

voxpop wrote: »

Its not the size of the car doors,...

Actually it does you need to open a bigger (longer) door wider to get out, on a coupe especially. Used to drive me crazy when I had one. people parking close to you.

voxpop wrote: »

...its having to open the car door fully to leverage a squirming baby/toddle into and out of a child seat. Generally normal car spaces are so small that you can barely half open a door...

Well theres that and lifting the car seat in and out if its a carry cot. But you'd have the same problem on a regular saloon, and if its carry cot, theres nothing left in the car to know its carrying a baby.

A lot of modern cars have a got a lot wider. The original golf is more like a modern polo for example, but car spaces haven't changed, if anything they are smaller.

Sam Kade

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Whether it is some dolly bird in a Golf or a middle-aged bloke in a Merc or any non-child-carrying individual in between, if they don't have kids and park in a P&C space I do my best to whack their paintwork with my trolley as I pass by, struggling with child and shopping back to my 'normal' parking space. Gives me immense pleasure.

So do you have your child in the trolley while you indulge in this activity?

Leprechaun77

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Whether it is some dolly bird in a Golf or a middle-aged bloke in a Merc or any non-child-carrying individual in between, if they don't have kids and park in a P&C space I do my best to whack their paintwork with my trolley as I pass by, struggling with child and shopping back to my 'normal' parking space. Gives me immense pleasure.

:eek:....ffs...whatever about muppets parking in these spaces, you truly are a clown.

Gooseygoosey

I hate this thread again. It goes in circles and gets nowhere.

If people (and I include everybody) watched what they were doing when disembarking then there would be no problems. If we lived in a society where automatically all the able bodied people parked in the further away carparks and left the door side spaces for those less infirm or those with children, or quick drop offs, there would be no problems.

My problem is those who like to take the vigilante approach by reeking revenge with their trolley (into the side of anothers property), and straight away on their high horses just because they have children...like ..what ever...get over it...millions of people have children.... in cars ....in carparks. It's akin to those who feel they have the right away through your ankles with the buggy because they too feel I should give way to them...because they have children...

There wasn't Parent and Child parking when we were growing up and our parents managed fine. It's a makey uppy rule, not based on anything other than some thinking they are entitled to it

Gran Hermano

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Whether it is some dolly bird in a Golf or a middle-aged bloke in a Merc or any non-child-carrying individual in between, if they don't have kids and park in a P&C space I do my best to whack their paintwork with my trolley as I pass by, struggling with child and shopping back to my 'normal' parking space. Gives me immense pleasure.

Whilst parking in a parent & child space when not appropriate is not a criminal offence, vandalising a car is. If I witnessed you doing this I would have no problem taking your reg and reporting you. I'd even go to court as a witness.

Cat Melodeon

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Whilst parking in a parent & child space when not appropriate is not a criminal offence, vandalising a car is. If I witnessed you doing this I would have no problem taking your reg and reporting you. I'd even go to court as a witness.

Oh, but I was just struggling with my trolley and child. It wasn't deliberate your honour.