A futureproof TV?

gnolan

Currently thinking of getting a new TV and want to make sure i don't regret it 2 months later. Would i be correct in saying that this "Saorview" i'm only now reading about will provide only the Irish channels? So not the BBCs and ITVs.

Also will "Project Canvas" be of any use to ROI viewers? From what i read it's basically Internet TV; so i assume it requires high-speed broadband, will hog broadband when on, and will require a massive usage cap? Or have i misunderstood it completely?

With this in mind, would the following sum up a suitable futureproof TV:

• HD TV with DVB-T MPEG4 (to recieve Saorview)
• capable of DVB-S or else a DVB-S stb (to recieve BBC, ITV, Ch4 etc through Satellite)

With those two above, do i have the capability to recieve all free channels available to me?

Thanks

watty

A big HD screen 1920x 1080 with loads of HDMI sockets is as good as it gets. There are no Saorview certified TVs yet. Unlikely to be until Nov 2010 or early 2011.

Saorview and Saorsat are Irish TV & Radio only

Freesat is UK main TV via set box (Get an Freesat HD box with twin tuners and HDD/PVR and Diseqc options).

"Project Canvas" is the working name for the technology. We don't exactly know what it is, but will be limited to UK Broadband users. Other countries may adopt it as it has to be licenced cheaply and fully published spec. Don't worry about it for now.

gnolan

watty wrote: »

A big HD screen 1920x 1080 with loads of HDMI sockets is as good as it gets. There are no Saorview certified TVs yet. Unlikely to be until Nov 2010 or early 2011.

Saorview and Saorsat are Irish TV & Radio only

Freesat is UK main TV via set box (Get an Freesat HD box with twin tuners and HDD/PVR and Diseqc options).

"Project Canvas" is the working name for the technology. We don't exactly know what it is, but will be limited to UK Broadband users. Other countries may adopt it as it has to be licenced cheaply and fully published spec. Don't worry about it for now.

Thanks for that. Was hoping for a straightforward answer. I do have some basic questions though.

• 1920x1080 - is that Full HD basically (or 1080p)
• although there may be no Saorview certified TV's yet, as long as the TV is capable of MPEG4, will it not be perfectly set up for it?
• are twin tuners on the stb for recording one channel and watching another simulataneously?
• diesqc?

Also, is the Saorview EPG the same for everybody? Currently have a DVB-T tuner on my TV but have the aerial pointed towards belfast. If pointed towards one of the Irish transmitters will i get the Saorview EPG?

Is saorsat the same as saorview?

watty

gnolan wrote: »

Thanks for that. Was hoping for a straightforward answer. I do have some basic questions though.

1920x1080 - is that Full HD basically (or 1080p)? "HD Ready" usually means 1366x768, but can be nearly any resolution as long as it will display an HD signal via HDMI. "Full HD" means 1920x1080p (progressive). But only some DVDs, PCs, some consoles and BD (Bluray) are Progressive. All broadcast is "interlaced" which is 1/2 the temporal resolution but the same static resolution. Unfortunately some "Full HD" sets don't do 1080i "natively" they convert it to 1080p which blurs the picture, ironically especially on movement. "Full HD" progressive only displays vary in the quality of de-interlacing. The "HD Ready" TVs are often poor at de-interlacing 1080i, some simply throw away 1/2 the lines and resample 540 lines to 720 lines or 768 lines.
Satellite HD is usually 1920x1080i and Terrestrial 1440 x 1080i (anamorphic). A "Full HD" set will display HD better than any "HD ready" set, but vary greatly in quality of display of 1440x1080i and 1920x1080i and all the many Standard Digital resolutions of 576 lines interlaced. They only are similar on 1920x1080p Bluray (BD) playback.


Although there may be no Saorview certified TV's yet, as long as the TV is capable of MPEG4, will it not be perfectly set up for it? No. The picture and basic sound, but other features may not work or partially work

Are twin tuners on the stb for recording one channel and watching another simulataneously? Yes

disqec? A method of using a remote LNB switch, to switch automatically between dishes or LNBs on a multi-sat dish.




Also, is the Saorview EPG the same for everybody? Currently have a DVB-T tuner on my TV but have the aerial pointed towards belfast. If pointed towards one of the Irish transmitters will i get the Saorview EPG?
There are TWO EPGs systems on Saorview tests. We are not sure exactly what is happening till 1 Nov 2010. Some TVs will use the DVB version if it's used. The "native" Saorview Interactive + EPG uses MHEG5. Not all TVs do this. If your TV doesn't do MPEG4 H.264, then you get sound and no picture.

There will be Saorsat Logo stickers on certified compatible TVs and Setboxes. Thus regarding any "Full HD" TV as an HDMI monitor for a later Saorview box is safer option till then.

Is saorsat the same as saorview?
Saorsat is the proposed copy of Saorview TV and Radio via a new Satellite to be launched end 2010 or early 2011. Probably Kasat @ 9E, which isn't launched yet

Saorview is the name of the Irish Terrestrial Digital service with initially 9 TV and 10 or 12 radio channels.



Extensive thread:
Summaries explain why the new Q2 2011 Saorsat is probably Kasat @ 9E and list/explain content (identical to Saorview)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66930692&postcount=138
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66932467&postcount=141

gnolan

Thanks again. So if i really want to make the most out of a new TV i should probably wait until after Nov 1 to get one by the sounds of it. Cheers

STB

gnolan wrote: »

Currently thinking of getting a new TV and want to make sure i don't regret it 2 months later. Would i be correct in saying that this "Saorview" i'm only now reading about will provide only the Irish channels? So not the BBCs and ITVs.

Also will "Project Canvas" be of any use to ROI viewers? From what i read it's basically Internet TV; so i assume it requires high-speed broadband, will hog broadband when on, and will require a massive usage cap? Or have i misunderstood it completely?

With this in mind, would the following sum up a suitable futureproof TV:

• HD TV with DVB-T MPEG4 (to recieve Saorview)
• capable of DVB-S or else a DVB-S stb (to recieve BBC, ITV, Ch4 etc through Satellite)

With those two above, do i have the capability to recieve all free channels available to me?

Thanks

LG LF7700 32, 37, 42, 47.

Full HD
VHF & UHF Analogue
DVB-T tuner for MPEG4
DVBS2 tuner with Freesat HD EPG

About £500 from Richersounds for the 42". They have a board here.

gnolan

STB wrote: »

LG LF7700 32, 37, 42, 47.

Full HD
VHF & UHF Analogue
DVB-T tuner for MPEG4
DVBS2 tuner with Freesat HD EPG

About £500 from Richersounds for the 42". They have a board here.

I've kind of had my mind on a Panasonic or Sony, have been told that they'd be the best.

Are there any TV's out there that would provide for both Freesat HD and Freeview HD?

To be honest,for our main tv here when I'm replacing it,I think I'll just go for a full hd led and forget about future proofing,It will have at least 3 hdmi connections so whatever technology is used,It can be connected to the TV.

I've kind of changed my mind on future proofing as stb's are easier changed and so connectible.I'm concentrating on the sturdiness of the set,it's reliability,proven longevity in previous models and the best picture quality I can get for my buck.

John mac

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-V20-TX-P50V20B-50V20-HDTV-Plasma-Review.html


one of these may do the job, not sure of mpeg 4 tuner though.

winston_1

Of course there is no such thing as a future proof TV as the future is always changing.

Don't go for a Panasonic, their sets are crippled to only work in one country. UK models don't have analogue VHF tuners and often don't work properly on MPEG 4 for Irish DTT. Irish models don't have Freesat tuners.

The LG suggested is probably your best option.

gnolan

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest,for our main tv here when I'm replacing it,I think I'll just go for a full hd led and forget about future proofing,It will have at least 3 hdmi connections so whatever technology is used,It can be connected to the TV.

Unfortunately i wouldn't be able to afford a Full HD LED TV, but i understand the point you're making.

I've kind of changed my mind on future proofing as stb's are easier changed and so connectible.I'm concentrating on the sturdiness of the set,it's reliability,proven longevity in previous models and the best picture quality I can get for my buck.

I think that might be the way i'll go too. At first i was looking for a TV with Freeview HD (MPEG4) and Freesat HD, but think maybe a quality stb might be the way to go. Although i didn't realise that they were so expensive.

winston_1 wrote: »

Don't go for a Panasonic, their sets are crippled to only work in one country. UK models don't have analogue VHF tuners and often don't work properly on MPEG 4 for Irish DTT. Irish models don't have Freesat tuners.

I don't want to seem sceptical but can anyone else confirm this? I realise if it has an MPEG2 tuner i won't be able to pick up the Irish DTT channels but hadn't heard anything about the VHF tuner.

The LG suggested is probably your best option.

I have heard that although their displays are of reasonable quality, their service is poor and that "15 month old sets have no spares".

watty

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest,for our main tv here when I'm replacing it,I think I'll just go for a full hd led and forget about future proofing,It will have at least 3 hdmi connections so whatever technology is used,It can be connected to the TV.

Slight nitpick. It's LED backlight LCD. There ARE real LED TVs (as opposed to small OMLED). They are very large for exhibition halls, stadiums etc. I saw a "small" 12' / 4m HD LED screen in conference at Amsterdam two years ago. Smashing screen

watty

gnolan wrote: »

I have heard that although their displays are of reasonable quality, their service is poor and that "15 month old sets have no spares".

Your best bet is to buy something that doesn't break. If it dies sooner than can be reasonably expected then the retailer is obliged to replace, repair or refund (their choice). Manufacturer's warranties are hardly worth the paper and don't remove your rights with retailer.

"reasonably expected" Life varies on the item and is 3months to 5 years. A TV could be one to two years.

Hardly any TV repair expert places are left. Most places simply swap a panel, if that. Repairs are rarely economical. A replacement screen due to physical damage is usually more expensive than a later model new set.

Sam Russell

winston_1 wrote: »

Of course there is no such thing as a future proof TV as the future is always changing.

Don't go for a Panasonic, their sets are crippled to only work in one country. UK models don't have analogue VHF tuners and often don't work properly on MPEG 4 for Irish DTT. Irish models don't have Freesat tuners.

The LG suggested is probably your best option.

I am seriously tempted by the Panasonic G20, Freeview HD and Freeesat HD, but am nervous about the UK/Ireland firmware differences. Until I see one here working both Saorview and Freesat, I am going to wait. I might go Sony, but I beleive they also have issues with Freesat/Saorview.

SIZE=1][I]By Saorview I mean Irish DTT, as it will be implented eventually. Since that is not known yet, I will wait[/I][/SIZE.

John mac

watty wrote: »

Slight nitpick. It's LED backlight LCD.

Ha i was going to say that, (the exact phrase) but thought it may be a bit pedantic .

STB

The reason I suggested the LG was that they are full HD and they have all the necessary wherewithall to decode MPEG4 DTT using the onbboard processor with no limitations on the service IDs that prevail with other Freesat Combo TVs witfh DVB-T such as Panasonic who have taken shortcuts with by using a DBOOK standard.

You DO NOT need a Freeview HD DVB-T2 TV to receive Irish DTT once the DVB-T firmware on the Freesat HD Combo Tv has the proper ETSI level firmware. It is not a given that Freeview HD products are infact suitable for Irish DTT. The same firmware issues apply especially as regards country descriptors and 0x16 Advanced Codec on DVB-T.

People who are using Freeview HD/Freesat Combo TVs have bought them specifically to attempt to receive overspill from the UK's transmitters in NI or Wales. In either case this reception is not guaranteed and should not be depended upon. It also defeats the purpose of the built in Freesat tuner.

The most economical, stable and futureproof of the lot is the LG LF7700 range. Not alone do they have all the right hardware for those who can receive DTT now, they also have both UHF and VHF analogue tuners for those who are waiting for their DTT transmitters to come on stream.

slegs

Sam Russell wrote: »

I am seriously tempted by the Panasonic G20, Freeview HD and Freeesat HD, but am nervous about the UK/Ireland firmware differences. Until I see one here working both Saorview and Freesat, I am going to wait. I might go Sony, but I beleive they also have issues with Freesat/Saorview.

SIZE=1][I]By Saorview I mean Irish DTT, as it will be implented eventually. Since that is not known yet, I will wait[/I][/SIZE.

Sony's are very compatible. What leads you to believe they have issues? Sony were one of the first TV manufacturers to go MPEG4 across most of their range. They also dont make local versions of TV's like Panasonic (with exception of their freesat TV's) so you can be more confident of standards adherence.

Have a 2008 Sony W4000 my self and its compatible with everything RTE has done to date bar a couple of funnies in how it handles fadas on TG4.

gnolan

STB wrote: »

You DO NOT need a Freeview HD DVB-T2 TV to receive Irish DTT once the DVB-T firmware on the Freesat HD Combo Tv has the proper ETSI level firmware. It is not a given that Freeview HD products are infact suitable for Irish DTT. The same firmware issues apply especially as regards country descriptors and 0x16 Advanced Codec on DVB-T.

Forgive for not fully understanding that. Are you saying that even if the product doesn't specify Freeview HD, it should still be capable of recieving HD freeiview channels if the firmware is right. (how do i ensure it has the proper ETSI level firmware?)

Also, are you suggesting that Saorview may not feature any HD channels?

People who are using Freeview HD/Freesat Combo TVs have bought them specifically to attempt to receive overspill from the UK's transmitters in NI or Wales. In either case this reception is not guaranteed and should not be depended upon. It also defeats the purpose of the built in Freesat tuner.

Think i get what you mean here? Why point your aerial towards Belfast when you can get the same channels from your dish.

slegs

Saorview needs DVB-T/MPEG4 for all its services whether theyare HD or SD. For UK freeview SD is DVB-T/MPEG2 and HD is DVB-T2/MPEG4.

So a Freeview HD TV is not needed for Saorview (SD or HD) only one that receives DVB-T/MPEG4 which most new TVs are capable of.

gnolan

slegs wrote: »

Saorview needs DVB-T/MPEG4 for all its services whether theyare HD or SD. For UK freeview SD is DVB-T/MPEG2 and HD is DVB-T2/MPEG4.

So a Freeview HD TV is not needed for Saorview (SD or HD) only one that receives DVB-T/MPEG4 which most new TVs are capable of.

Ah right. So all i need to look out for is MPEG4

watty

It has to do HD also. RTE are unlikely to Simulcast. You just don't need DVB-t2, which is only used currently by UK DTT HD.

gnolan

watty wrote: »

It has to do HD also. RTE are unlikely to Simulcast. You just don't need DVB-t2, which is only used currently by UK DTT HD.

Yeah. So a HD set with MPEG4 will be capable of recieving HD content (if any) from Irish DTT?

As an aside, why are we not going to be using DVB-t2? Is it not a more advanced technology which would more easily allow for HD content in the future?

STB

DVB-T is a broadcasting platform.

DVB-T2 is a broadcsting platform.

Both deliver HD via MPEG4 H264. Thats a video codec.

It is not any better for delivering HD. The reason the british use it is because it is a solution to their problems which are space related. They have a lot of stations and needed to implement a new standard in order to carry the HD stations. DVB-T2 does allow for more effiecient use of space than DVB-T. However we do not have that problem. We have a handful of stations, will have a second mux coming on next year and will be sticking with DVB-T and again using MPEG4 video for noth HD and SD. As an aside the British SD station are still in MPEG2 and will be for some time. We are ahead in the broadcst quality/effiecient codec use stakes for the small number stations we have.

The point earlier about Freesat HD/DVB-T combos. They work for Ireland. Because the MPEG4 processor is present for the HD part of Freesat. It is then used on the DVB-T, no problem.

The Freesat HD/Freeview HD combos still has the same MPEG4 processor, but a diffrent tuner, a DVB-T2 tuner. It is not necessary to have a Freeview HD tuner (DVB-T2) to pick up MPEG4 on DVB-T.

watty

At this stage ..
You are sorry you asked..

The important things are:
1) Loads of HDMI sockets.
2) 1920 x 1080 native pixels
3) It looks OK picture
4) Big enough for the room.

"future proofing" a TV at the minute is a moving target. Anything built in that works is a bonus.

The LG sounds "good" for a particular definition of good. Assume at some stage that what ever you buy might want an external box. (Recording, Canvas, Soarsat, Blu Ray playing or backup of recordings, something they think up next week).

1969 to last week was much simpler than tomorrow Some people are actually running B&W 405 TVs made in 1947 on UK Freeview via setbox and standards converter. No doubt they will "upgrade" to Freeview HD.

gnolan

I'm only sorry that you all have to answer all my clueless questions! As clueless as i am i probably know a lot more than anyone else i know, which is worrying. This thread has certainly helped. And thanks to everyone who contributed to it.

I may take peoples' advice here and take a good look at the LG 42LF7700. Perhaps you're right and it does suit my needs for the moment, with the option of a STB in the future.

Thanks in particular to Watty and STB.

PS - I've noticed that there is an ethernet port on the LG but it doesn't seem to have any internet or streaming features. Does anyone know what this is for?

winston_1

gnolan wrote: »

I don't want to seem sceptical but can anyone else confirm this? I realise if it has an MPEG2 tuner i won't be able to pick up the Irish DTT channels but hadn't heard anything about the VHF tuner.

I can assure you that Panasonic UK models do not tune VHF channels on analogue. Have a look at their online specs or look through some earlier posts on this forum.

Sam Russell

slegs wrote: »

Sony's are very compatible. What leads you to believe they have issues? Sony were one of the first TV manufacturers to go MPEG4 across most of their range. They also dont make local versions of TV's like Panasonic (with exception of their freesat TV's) so you can be more confident of standards adherence.

Have a 2008 Sony W4000 my self and its compatible with everything RTE has done to date bar a couple of funnies in how it handles fadas on TG4.

My prefered make would be Sony, but I have noticed that all technical questions/specs are handled through the UK, and they know nothing about here. Even TVs with MPEG4 were quoted on the UK spec sheet as being MPEG2 only. It is impossible to get through to any technical knowledge base that can be relied upon, and although their products are good, there support is not. I currently have two Sony TVs, but neither have MPEG4.

STB

Slegs

Sony Bravia models in general have been okay with DTT especially the later models. We really dont know what they have done with their combos as RTE have not been broadcasting using 0x16 for some time. if they go back to this then people might find their is a problem like with panasonic combo range of tv's. All of the pani combo range have had problems with Advanced Codec flag on DVB-T.

The only combo TVs that clear all these obstacles are the LG LF7700. I dont sell em by the way. Its just the only combo I would recommend that works in the wild including during the 0x16 Advanced Codec flag tests is the that LG Combo range if it is a combo you are looking for.

If Freesat in a TV isnt a priority then there are plenty of DVB-T only models that work with Irish DTT in the sticky at the top. They have plenty of HDMIs for other boxes etc.

slegs

STB wrote: »

Slegs

Sony Bravia models in general have been okay with DTT especially the later models. We really dont know what they have done with their combos as RTE have not been broadcasting using 0x16 for some time. if they go back to this then people might find their is a problem like with panasonic combo range of tv's. All of the pani combo range have had problems with Advanced Codec flag on DVB-T.

The only combo TVs that clear all these obstacles are the LG LF7700. I dont sell em by the way. Its just the only combo I would recommend that works in the wild including during the 0x16 Advanced Codec flag tests is the that LG Combo range if it is a combo you are looking for.

If Freesat in a TV isnt a priority then there are plenty of DVB-T only models that work with Irish DTT in the sticky at the top. They have plenty of HDMIs for other boxes etc.

Thanks hadnt heard much about their Freesat TVs but generally their W,X and Z models and new LED models are top class.

I agree on LG. Have a cheapo LG 32 inch in the bedroom and its MPEG4 and has a lovely picture on DTT. Have heard very good things abot that 7700 you mention also. They seem to make very good value TVs with highish specification.

Sam Russell

@ STB and Slegs

Thanks for those comments. I would like a Freesat HD and Freeview HD combined TV, as I have ambitions to get UK Freeview, as well as the Freesat which I currently get through a Foxsat PVR. I will wait till after the launch, which I expect to be a damp squib, but one lives in hope.

championc

When do LG change their range of TV's ? I too would like to go the Freesat HD and Freeview HD combo route. I see Panny are the only ones doing one for now. I do use Divis in Belfast for Analog and so would like to "future proof" myself (as much as possible). I am also NOT a Sky subscriber (and never plan to be) so Freesat also fits perfectly for me.

Power City are now selling the Sony KDL 32V5810 so if I was to just limit myself to Freeview (without the possibility of HD), what would you go for between this an the LG LF7700 ? Both of these support Freesat HD - yes ?


C

FREETV

championc wrote: »

When do LG change their range of TV's ? I too would like to go the Freesat HD and Freeview HD combo route. I see Panny are the only ones doing one for now. I do use Divis in Belfast for Analog and so would like to "future proof" myself (as much as possible). I am also NOT a Sky subscriber (and never plan to be) so Freesat also fits perfectly for me.

Power City are now selling the Sony KDL 32V5810 so if I was to just limit myself to Freeview (without the possibility of HD), what would you go for between this an the LG LF7700 ? Both of these support Freesat HD - yes ?


C

I would go for a Samsung tv over an LG. The LG tv's are improving every year and are a good brand but even the CEO of LG said in an interview that the design of Samsung tvs are slightly better and that they could learn a lot from Samsung. I found Samsung tv's to have more colour in their pictures compared to LG'S. 18 bit colour panels versus 16 bit colour panels. Sony are a great brand but a tad pricy. The Korean tvs have inferior sound cards inside and poorer quality speakers than a Sony or Panasonic. I have a Samsung plasma tv and a Sony lcd tv and my Dad owns a 32" Sony Bravia LCD too, we never had a problem yet with either of them. If you go with a Sony go for the best price that you can find during a sale.

homer911

Richersounds seem to be the only one doing the LG 7700, but its currently £50 more expensive than it was a month or two ago...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055938753