RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

mickdw

zg3409 wrote: »

All of Mayo an 80cm SOLID dish is recommended. You need a special Saorsat LNB for the dish. The system does not carry TV3 and probably will not carry some future channels for financial reasons. The dishes are far more directional that a normal 80cm dish. They are as hard to align as a 1.5M dish. You should not be using the meter in the receiver to align the dish. Ideally you should use a proper meter. Even the cheapo inline meters are better than the meters that are built into receivers.


In theory you can use any satellite receiver that can decode HD satellite TV. The signal is a DVB-S2 signal so non HD boxes will not "see" it. It is recommended to use a satellite receiver with MHEG (not mpeg) for the digital TV guide. You may also be able to use a TV with inbuilt satellite receiver if needed.

The signal comes from 9East so the dish needs to point much further west than a Sky dish.

If you want the UK channels too you need a receiver with DiSEqC capability and either two dishes, or one dish with two LNBs. Mounting two LNBs on the one dish is tricky and hard to align, especially without a proper professional measurement tool.

Thanks

Yes im aware of the need for the specific lnb. So an 80 cm dish is what is needed. No requirement for additional channels in this case so it will be just the single lnb.
Might buy the kit and have a play around with it to see how the alignment goes.
No Saorview signal at sisters house and she won't pay sky so little other option.

whitebriar

Stinicker wrote: »

I wonder when will we see RTE1 HD on Saorsat if ever?

Not missing much,there's nothing regular in hd on Rte one.
Even eastenders is standard definition poorly upscaled ..the mind boggles.

Delta Lima

Hello there,

It's probably been mentioned somewhere already, but I noticed I was missing my Saorsat channels on my Humax Foxsat yesterday.
Fiddling about with the settings, I discovered that the FEC seems to have been changed to 2/3 from 1/2.
The Foxsat has no 'Auto' setting for FEC.

radiowaves

Delta Lima wrote: »

Hello there,

Its probably been mentioned somewhere already but i noticed i was missing my Saorsat channels on my Humax Foxsat yesterday.
Fiddling about with the settings, i discovered that the FEC seems to have been changed to 2/3 from of 1/2.
The Foxsat has no 'Auto' setting for FEC.

Thanks for that.

I actually thought my LNB had packed in!

Delta Lima

You're welcome. Thought it could save someone some bother

zg3409

Why would they change the FEC without warning? Was it a mistake? Changing to a lower FEC would mean it would be slightly harder to receive and slightly less reliable in bad weather. If the bit-rate is the same it would mean they can now send more bits per second, meaning more chance of adding more channels to existing setup? Could it be that they intend increasing the transmit power further?

How many other people have lost reception because of this?

zg3409

All mentions of the FEC anywhere I looked says it was always 1/2.
I know many receiver do not even ask for this setting and just automatically detect it. What percentage of users will get nothing?

radiowaves

zg3409 wrote: »

All mentions of the FEC anywhere I looked says it was always 1/2.
Going back years places like Lyngsat, wikipedia etc have it as 1/2
I know many receiver do not even ask for this setting and just automatically detect it. So was it 2/3 before?

It has always been 1/2.

Wayne Cochran

zg3409 wrote: »

Changing to a higher FEC would mean it would be slightly easier to receive and slightly more reliable in bad weather. If the bit-rate is the same it would mean they can now send less bits per second, meaning less chance of adding more channels to existing setup...

2/3 FEC rate allows more actual payload than 1/2, doesn't it?

Delta Lima

It was 1/2 before. I think I have noticed the signal and quality bars increase alright.

The Cush

Wayne Cochran wrote: »

2/3 FEC rate allows more actual payload than 1/2, doesn't it?

Yes, reduced error correction so increased capacity.

Apogee

A change in FEC from 1/2 to 2/3 would result in a less robust signal (less error correction) and would normally require a larger dish.

http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg/index.html#srfec

I wonder if there has been a change in signal power to compensate for this? The transmit power was certainly higher in the early test days.

zg3409

Sorry mis-read the first post. I edited the previous posts

John896

Rte One HD was on this morning on the Seirbhis Thrialach channel six,showing the morning edition it has just gone back too the test card.

dmcdream

Hi folks,

I wanted to check if anyone else in NI/Belfast area was experiencing a loss in their Saorsat service?

I'm using a Xoro 8530 HD receiver connected to an 80cm Triax solid dish.

As I'm sort of on the cusp of Saorsat reception, I assumed that the satellite had perhaps moved fractionally, and that the signal would return (as has been the case with previous outages,) but seemingly not this time around

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Apogee

See post #2824 by Delta Lima - they have changed the FEC from 1/2 to 2/3.

Try rescanning with FEC set to 2/3 (or auto).

Oscarziggy

dmcdream wrote: »

Hi folks,

I wanted to check if anyone else in NI/Belfast area was experiencing a loss in their Saorsat service?

I'm using a Xoro 8530 HD receiver connected to an 80cm Triax solid dish.

As I'm sort of on the cusp of Saorsat reception, I assumed that the satellite had perhaps moved fractionally, and that the signal would return (as has been the case with previous outages,) but seemingly not this time around

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Also using Xoro 8530 and no problem

---

signal quality is only 4 dots and no drop outs.
Have not had to do a rescan for ages..... last time was when 2 test card channels appeared.
I am way south of you on the Wales coast on the edge of the foot print.

Regards

dmcdream

dmcdream wrote: »

Hi folks,

I wanted to check if anyone else in NI/Belfast area was experiencing a loss in their Saorsat service?

I'm using a Xoro 8530 HD receiver connected to an 80cm Triax solid dish.

As I'm sort of on the cusp of Saorsat reception, I assumed that the satellite had perhaps moved fractionally, and that the signal would return (as has been the case with previous outages,) but seemingly not this time around

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

OK - I can set Frequency, Symbol Rate and Polarity but I can't find any way of setting 'FEC' anywhere in the menus of the Xoro 8530 HD receiver .

Just on the back of what Oscarziggy said, my signal quality on the Xoro 8530 HD receiver , is only 3 "dots" with continual drop outs.

Everything was fine up until a few days ago. The last re-scan I did (around October last year) picked up the 2 'Seirbhis Thrialach' channels. I assumed that was me up to date with required re-scans.

Apogee

dmcdream wrote: »

OK - I can set Frequency, Symbol Rate and Polarity but I can't find any way of setting 'FEC' anywhere in the menus of the Xoro 8530 HD receiver .

Just on the back of what Oscarziggy said, my signal quality on the Xoro 8530 HD receiver , is only 3 "dots" with continual drop outs.

Everything was fine up until a few days ago. The last re-scan I did (around October last year) picked up the 2 'Seirbhis Thrialach' channels. I assumed that was me up to date with required re-scans.

Your receiver presumably has auto-FEC so you don't need to set it. If you've scanned in the channels and are seeing a picture but with continual drop outs, then that's a result of the reduced error correction.

You mention you were previously on the "cusp of reception" - the change in FEC from 1/2 to 2/3 has pushed you over the edge of the threshold cliff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_effect

Assuming your dish is properly aligned, your only solution is to get a bigger dish.

zg3409

dmcdream wrote: »

OK - I can set Frequency, Symbol Rate and Polarity but I can't find any way of setting 'FEC' anywhere in the menus of the Xoro 8530 HD receiver .

Just on the back of what Oscarziggy said, my signal quality on the Xoro 8530 HD receiver , is only 3 "dots" with continual drop outs.

Everything was fine up until a few days ago.

Well things did change a couple of days ago. As suggested you may now be struggling to get enough of a signal to get anything. With 2/3 FEC the signal will now be harder to receive.

If you wish to continue reception you might want a 90cm solid dish professionally aligned. I would suspect 80cm should be enough for Belfast most of the time, but it would need very careful alignment with a professional signal meter. Another problem you may have is the receiver may need a strong signal to "find it again" and the channel may need to be deleted and refound for the FEC setting to update automatically. The receiver may "store" the FEC it finds and may not automatically change if the FEC changes.

Was the dish aligned properly in the first place? I have used a 40cm dish in Belfast and it worked OK in normal good weather. Continual drop outs, have these just started happening?, if no it suggest it was not aligned perfectly, unless the drop outs were during heavy rainstorms to the south.

Oscarziggy

dmcdream.
My LNB is on a motorised dish so I turmed it to reduce the signal quality to 3 dots and the picture constantly broke up.
There isn't a way of setting the FEC on the Xoro --- I assume therefore it is automatic !!
Hope that helps
Regards

Delta Lima

dmcdream
You could try maybe fitting a small shim between the underside of the LNB arm and the dish, to raise the arm in relation to the dish face marginally. This is assuming your LNB arm is flat. I've tried this with dishes bigger than 80cm and seen improvements.
You may still probably have to re-adjust the dish elevation in the normal way if you try this.
It is a long shot.
Good luck

phelixoflaherty

Thanks to delta lima for the Info on the FEC change.

Would it be possible to start a new thread with this info.

Had just borrowed a spare Ka lnb and a ladder to tackle the loss of signal.

But luckily found the info on FEC change buried here

Apogee

Nothing stopping you starting a new thread, but unless people keep posting to it, it'll fall off the front page and get lost.

Might be more useful to PM a mod and ask them to update the title of this sticky e.g. Saorsat service - change of FEC from 1/2 to 2/3 - see post #2824

phelixoflaherty

Spoke to soon.

Can use saorsat in NON FREESAT, and can see the channells in the raydon channel editor list,

But when I save and restart channel editor It just stays there waiting for the system to come backup, and I can see that the humax has restarted.

Anyone have a solution?
Thanks

Apogee

I miss Dr Dish!

My German isn't up to much, but see below from 12:29 (9:32 for background) on an attempt to catch Saorsat on a 13M dish in Weilheim, Germany.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_l-Z0sKbvw

Hotblack Desiato

Next week, they're going to try to see can they pick up Fair City in Arecibo







.. not really any the wiser after watching that video, but I presume the interfering spots were turned on so they got nothing...

watty

There are over 82 spot beams.
But only 4 bands.
If the part of band with Saorsat is in use on ANY other spot even at same distance as Irish spot then no matter how big the dish it won't work.

Think of two TV channels in different countries on that are the same channel in line in the same direction. No matter how big your aerial the "nearer" one blocks the further one. All the 82 spots are coming from same point in space 22,000 miles away.

They are not "interfering spots". The Satellite has 40x capacity by re-using spot beams instead of 10 satellites at different places with x4 bigger spots (Ku band practice). If people didn't want the capacity the satellite would be pointless.

Ku the "spots" are reused, but since they are different satellites a massive big dish can "pick out" a spot pointing somewhere else.

zg3409

Apogee wrote: »

I miss Dr Dish!

My German isn't up to much, but see below from 12:29 (9:32 for background) on an attempt to catch Saorsat on a 13M dish in Weilheim, Germany.

From the screenshot of the spectrum, it looks as if they did not pick up the specific jamming carrier but rather 4 internet carriers from one spot and another 4 carriers from a different spot. I cannot see a single narrow peak, like can be seen on the french beam.

I also noticed on the satellite receiver they were using horizontal ,which gives 13V, which gives RHCP on the KA LNB so they might have been the wrong polarisation, but then their dish has two refelectors which would convert LHCP into RHCP anyway!



I suspect they instead picked up all German spots. Maybe no one told them the FEC changed!

Someone mentioned on another forum the french narrow carrier seems to be 32PSK which is different from the Saorsat carrier (25000-2/3 QPSK) so they may be using it for a TV downlink or another test use in France.

Apogee

I'd imagine they were well aware that the chances of success were minimal, but fair play for giving it a go nonetheless.

[off-topic] The box at 9.32 is an interesting piece of kit for older 36V, mechanical polariser setups.

http://www.titaniumsatellite.com/asc1

Not cheap, but not much of an alternative choice with today's receivers in comparison to receivers of old.

http://www.satshop24.de/satshop24_s/titanium_asc_1_diseqc_1_2_positionierer_,pd0!0,,ASC1.html