12th July Troubles Enterprise Attacked

Oliver1985

http://www.u.tv/News/Trouble-flares-in-Lurgan/ac9c9846-baf1-4e20-9cae-eb091bf4d146

This actually is shocking and id say was very scary for passengers and Train crew!

Judgement Day

Nice! Lurgan was, is and always will be the arsehole of nowhere and I feel sorry for any normal people living in the area. There have been numerous security alerts on the railway through Lurgan in recent months and they are nothing to do with the 12th - just scumbags doing what they can get away with. Napalm is probably the only answer or cutting off their goolies.

Run_to_da_hills

These scumbags should be identified and prosecuted for trespassing on the tracks.

Some of them in time may qualify for the group submission of the Darwin awards.

Oliver1985

You would love to run them over!!

stovelid

He should have just ran over them.

edit: snap

JHMEG

Lurgan... Northern Ireland's Droichead na Scuab.

foggy_lad

appaerently they were able to get onto a train and took items of luggage off and burned it trying to set fire to the train! and barry kenny on liveline has not been able to say whether people will be compensated for their lost luggage:rolleyes: he has to get in touch with translink but it looks like irish rail will find any excuse not to pay out!

just shows really the depth of contempt irish rail have for their customers!

Judgement Day

The whole event just featured on Liveline.

A brief synopsis:

Connolly Station Information Desk closed as per normal hours so no info available.

Connolly train arrivals board showed train as running to time.

Nobody in charge to tell waiting relatives etc. what was going on.

Barry Kenny was on the programme but couldn't give any undertaking that CIE/IE would reimburse people for property stolen by the good citizens of Lurgan.

Nationalists attacking a train full of Irish people - marvellous!

A scout group were shown up as having very little cop on by allowing their group anywhere near the North at the height of the 'marching' season.

The whole scenario could only take place in Ireland. :rolleyes:

robbie_998

i'd like to know how they actually managed to stop it and how they actually got on to the thing in the first place

Judgement Day

robbie_998 wrote: »

i'd like to know how they actually managed to stop it and how they actually got on to the thing in the first place

Yep, that wasn't clear from the various Liveline participants including BK who seemed to be floundering. :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

heard someone mention a gun being held to the drivers head but cant understand how they would get into the driving cab?

milly4ever

i heard there was a bus transfer between belfast and newry today?

bmaxi

Judgement Day wrote: »

The whole event just featured on Liveline.





Nationalists attacking a train full of Irish people - marvellous!

:

I wouldn't be a leading light in the "wrap the green flag round me", brigade but I think it's a bit of a stretch to associate this with Nationalism. There are other, more apt adjectives to describe these people.
I think though, that this action may have more far reaching results than the usual bomb scare incident. This, if I remember correctly, is the first time a train en route has been attacked in this way. Granted there has always been stone throwing and general vandalism but no direct action against crew or passengers. It'll be interesting to hear what the unions have to say.

I.S.T.

What's going on at the start of the video, looks like someone (driver) throwing a plastic bag and rucksack out of the drivers cab?

SeanW

Driver should have kept going. scum.

BrianD

foggy_lad wrote: »

appaerently they were able to get onto a train and took items of luggage off and burned it trying to set fire to the train! and barry kenny on liveline has not been able to say whether people will be compensated for their lost luggage:rolleyes: he has to get in touch with translink but it looks like irish rail will find any excuse not to pay out!

just shows really the depth of contempt irish rail have for their customers!

They should have travel insurance.

Judgement Day

BrianD wrote: »

They should have travel insurance.

Irish Rail should have a bit of cop on and try and make some positive PR out of this disaster by looking after everybody. Some free tickets for everybody on the train would not go amiss but this is Irish Rail not a private company.

Our man in Havana

Judgement Day wrote: »

Nice! Lurgan was, is and always will be the arsehole of nowhere and I feel sorry for any normal people living in the area. There have been numerous security alerts on the railway through Lurgan in recent months and they are nothing to do with the 12th - just scumbags doing what they can get away with. Napalm is probably the only answer or cutting off their goolies.

Their parents googlies should have been cut off thus preventing these scumbags from being born.

Our man in Havana

robbie_998 wrote: »

i'd like to know how they actually managed to stop it and how they actually got on to the thing in the first place

Standard method is to block the tracks at a level crossing thus forcing the train to stop.

mikemac

Two Cetic jerseys spotted I reckon if that says anything

The estate they are walking into seems fine, a few good cars there, hardly a run down, terrible area.
Pity about the residents

Run_to_da_hills

Haddockman wrote: »

Standard method is to block the tracks at a level crossing thus forcing the train to stop.

There would have been CCTV present at the level crossing that could identify faces, I doubt if all of them were wearing balaclavas, all it would take is to catch a few of the scumbags and they would squeel on others.

Ham'nd'egger

Haddockman wrote: »

Standard method is to block the tracks at a level crossing thus forcing the train to stop.

It was the small matter of a petrol bomb thrown at the train by a kid on the lines that halted it.

Our man in Havana

I certainly would not have halted it.

Rud

i love the way they start to run off the track like a bunch of pussies when they hear the psni sirens.IE or NIR should have armed the security guards that patrol Connolly Station and loaded then into the DVT.that would have given the scumbags a run for their money

JHMEG

bmaxi wrote: »

I think it's a bit of a stretch to associate this with Nationalism.

"Nationalist" in some parts of the world means you belong to a group. A group that has nothing to do with Ireland.

bmaxi

Haddockman wrote: »

I certainly would not have halted it.

Let's be realistic, neither you nor I nor anybody else on this forum is likely to drive a train through a group of people so I don't think the driver's failure to do so should be deemed a bad judgement call. How many life terms do you reckon he'd serve if he did, not to mention the retaliation these subhumans might take on him and his family?
The PSNI should be supported in their efforts to deal with the likes of these and no matter what people might say to convince me to the contrary, I don't see the PSNI as the RUC of old. They are one of the most regulated and scrutinised police forces on the planet, it serves the purpose of a few vested interests to demonise them.

Terrontress

What speed must have the train been doing to be able to react to the scum? If it had been travelling at 90 then I can't see how someone could interfere with a train without derailing it.

That video looks to me like some form of 'community worker' has got the scum to leave the train alone and I hear on liveline that 'community workers' have got the stolen luggage back.

By the DVT number it looks like an NIR set.

Captain Chaos

Terrontress wrote: »

By the DVT number it looks like an NIR set.

There is no NIR set. NIR own all the odd numbered coaches and IE all the evens or it might be the other way round. The sets are all mixed. It's an NIR owned 201 on the other end though, 208, the only 201 in the new Enterprise livery.

The DVT is 9003. Only 3 out of the 4 DVTs are fit for service and with 9003 now in need of repairs it looks like the Enterprise will be down to 2 sets.

A Dub in Glasgo

feelingstressed wrote: »

Two Cetic jerseys spotted I reckon if that says anything

Says nothing

lord lucan

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Says nothing

Says they're Celtic supporters!:pac:

Bazzy

I think there is a lot of generalisation going on about citizens from Lurgan.

This was a very small minority of "people" mainly youths acting the bolli* i think its unfair to tar everyone with the same brush

These lads were sinply using the 12th as an excuse, The PSNI are in a very difficult position if they stand and watch them they are accused of doing nothing if they move in they are accused of gouding the youth into more voilence.

Again its joe public that suffers,

I spend a lot of time in lurgan and there are two main rail crossings one is right in the centre of the town and the other one as in the video is in an estate called kilwilkie it has always and always will be a flash point for trouble.

This was youths using the 12th as an excuse to run a muck it is nothing to do with religion or celtic FC simple as.

westtip

Look at this way - the PSNI know the train times, there was potential for trouble at this level crossing - Now the PSNI give CIE/NIR a call and say when is the Enterprise going through this spot. a couple of squad cars at the crossing at the time the Enterprise is due - its called preventative policing. Not rocket science is it. - the train goes through the youths are subdued cos they have been nipped in the bud, the police are only there five minutes. Job done. have they not got CCTV covering the entire line could they have not prevented this whole stupidity in the first place. Probably the best thing to do is just ban the sale of alcohol on the 12th. You ever heard of any riots on Good Friday down here?

SeanW

So the scumbags stock up on the 11th, while the normal people who'd like to take a drink on the 12th (for no particular reason) are inconvenienced.

Only way to deal with these scumbags is to deal with them head on. Preferably with prison time and chain gangs.

positron

'Troubles' - lol!

Anyone breaking the law should be dealt with efficiently and punitively. Everyone has the freedom to protest, but also have the responsibility to make sure they do it without harming other's freedom. Disgusting to see this still going on..!

Hungerford

BrianD wrote: »

They should have travel insurance.

As the baggage was stored in the DVT in a supposedly secure area, which should have been locked, Irish Rail are, by their own rules, liable.

They also need to explain how the rioters got into the driver's cab. The doors should have been locked. The incident is quite strange - how exactly did the driver regain control?

amacachi

westtip wrote: »

Look at this way - the PSNI know the train times, there was potential for trouble at this level crossing - Now the PSNI give CIE/NIR a call and say when is the Enterprise going through this spot. a couple of squad cars at the crossing at the time the Enterprise is due - its called preventative policing. Not rocket science is it. - the train goes through the youths are subdued cos they have been nipped in the bud, the police are only there five minutes. Job done. have they not got CCTV covering the entire line could they have not prevented this whole stupidity in the first place. Probably the best thing to do is just ban the sale of alcohol on the 12th. You ever heard of any riots on Good Friday down here?

They'd be there all day. At a guess there'd be an Enterprise every ~45 minutes when both directions are considered, add 10 minutes either side that they'd have to be there and it doesn't leave much time for anything else for the officers involved.

nordydan

Nationalists attacking a train full of Irish people - marvellous!

As a "northern Nationalist" (in a broad sense), I know what these lads are like as I have encountered them in Belfast and in Mid-Ulster.

Scum that couldn't point Dublin on a map. Any excuse for a riot. A total embarassment to the North. Animals.

People ask, "where are the parents?" They're out rioting with them, sadly

kravmaga

So does anyone know why the driver stopped in a flashpoint area mobbed with youths intent on theft and criminal damage.
I believe the drivers cab was stoned and suffered scorch damage to the window from a petrol bomb.

Did the youths gain access to the drivers cab?
I thought this was secured internally by the driver.

Irish Rail will be liable for the theft of luggage and will have to link up with the PSNI to put in place measures to make sure that this nasty incident does not happen again.

Bazzy

westtip wrote: »

Look at this way - the PSNI know the train times, there was potential for trouble at this level crossing - Now the PSNI give CIE/NIR a call and say when is the Enterprise going through this spot. a couple of squad cars at the crossing at the time the Enterprise is due - its called preventative policing. Not rocket science is it. - the train goes through the youths are subdued cos they have been nipped in the bud, the police are only there five minutes. Job done. have they not got CCTV covering the entire line could they have not prevented this whole stupidity in the first place. Probably the best thing to do is just ban the sale of alcohol on the 12th. You ever heard of any riots on Good Friday down here?

The PSNI in riot gear at the level crossing would only cause more problems. They would have expected trouble here but not as much as they got. And the enterprise is not the only train to pass that crossing the Portadown to Bangor train also passes via that crossing also

The " Community Leaders" got more respect than the PSNI so to be fair to the PSNI they did the best they could under the circumstances.

And I dont think alcohol was the soul blame here scum will ALWAYS be scum

I.S.T.

kravmaga wrote: »

So does anyone know why the driver stopped in a flashpoint area mobbed with youths intent on theft and criminal damage.
I believe the drivers cab was stoned and suffered scorch damage to the window from a petrol bomb.

According to Barry Kenny they blocked the level crossing so the driver had to stop.

Ham'nd'egger

Hungerford wrote: »

As the baggage was stored in the DVT in a supposedly secure area, which should have been locked, Irish Rail are, by their own rules, liable.

Translink operated this train as well, not Irish Rail. Any reason why they are not liable?

Hungerford wrote: »

They also need to explain how the rioters got into the driver's cab. The doors should have been locked. The incident is quite strange - how exactly did the driver regain control?

They broke the glass on doors so that is probably how they entered the train in the first instance. The locomotive was driving the train so the cabin in the DVT trailer would not have had any control over it whatsoever.

KC61

Hamndegger wrote: »

They broke the glass on doors so that is probably how they entered the train in the first instance. The locomotive was driving the train so the cabin in the DVT trailer would not have had any control over it whatsoever.

Surely given it was the 1610 from Belfast to Dublin the train was being pushed and as such the driver would have been in the DVT trailer?

Hungerford

Hamndegger wrote: »

Translink operated this train as well, not Irish Rail. Any reason why they are not liable?

The 16.10 service is operated by Irish Rail, not Translink. And as, someone pointed out above, the train was being controlled from the DVT at the time.

goingnowhere

Hamndegger wrote: »

Translink operated this train as well, not Irish Rail. Any reason why they are not liable?

It doesn't matter you can sue either of them as its a cross border journey. You complain to who ever sold you the ticket

They broke the glass on doors so that is probably how they entered the train in the first instance. The locomotive was driving the train so the cabin in the DVT trailer would not have had any control over it whatsoever.

Cab door doesn't have a window

http://www.jefflubchanskycpa.com/EIRE9001BELFAST-MR12-8D153.jpg

oharach

amacachi wrote: »

They'd be there all day. At a guess there'd be an Enterprise every ~45 minutes when both directions are considered, add 10 minutes either side that they'd have to be there and it doesn't leave much time for anything else for the officers involved.

Yeah, seriously. The local train was running a Saturday service, i.e. every 30 mins in both directions. Enterprise was also running a normal service, i.e. 8 in each direction. So the police would have had to be there all day, and would only have incited more trouble.

Dubliner85

Ok, well as a former IE employee, and Connolly - Central being my route I can tell you that while this instance may be extreme its certainly not uncommon in nature.

I could list several instances where train crews have been threatened, beaten, attacked after work, and almost killed in some cases.

On more than one occasion we had "people" board the train carrying fire arms, try to set the train on fire, burn mail/cargo being carried etc.

The only difference this time is, it seems to me, is that the public noticed and where witness to it.

In my four years working this route I can honestly say that more people applied for holidays in July than any other time.

While this may be the worst "international" incident involing and Irish train and Irish crew this side of the "troubles" NIR not that long ago where regularly subjected to their trains being hijacked and burnt out. Where IE have been lucky is that the Enterprise is a more modern train with good fire proofing.

The last time an Irish train was attacked with such severity was during the troubles when the IRA removed passengers and crew from the train and blew it up, hence no 5409 in the mk2 dining care fleet.

Take it from somone who knows, the crew onboard that train deserve a pat on the back. OK peoples bags may have been lost or damaged, but from what I know there where no serious casualties and everyone is ok.

Please spare a thought for the poor driver, who while seeing all this coming, could not have prevented it without endagering the lives of passengers, crew and by standers.

BrianD

I can appreciate the challenges of operating the route especially when such thuggery can land upon you at any time.

In your experience, can you advise how secure the driveer cabins are on these trains? Most people are amazed that the perpetrators seemed to have ease of entry to the drivers at the area. At the same time the driver seemed to be able to regain control of the situation and move off. I was surprised that the unit wasn't set alight.

Ham'nd'egger

KC61 wrote: »

Surely given it was the 1610 from Belfast to Dublin the train was being pushed and as such the driver would have been in the DVT trailer?

It should be pointed out that to the best of our knowledge, the drivers cab was not broken into by these thugs and that he was still in control of the cab

I was coming at this from the point of view that the DVT cab can be switched off as being not in control of the loco in the event of an emergency (Such as this, say); I wasn't thinking at all about the cab leading the train, which of course it was on this leg. Apologies if I confused you

Dubliner85

The Drivers cab can only be accessed by a series of doors, the first of which can be opened by anyone wishing to do so as it leads directly from the Coach A 1st plus cabin to the luggage area but is deemed as an emergency exit as each carriage is required to have four emergency exits. The second door leads from the hold to the drivers cab but is locked from the inside and can be opened by the driver from the inside or by senior members of the crew, this is required in the case of an emergency or driver incapacitation.

It is highly unlikely that these people actually gained access to the drivers area. If this was the case the driver would have had sufficient time to send an emergency transmission to traffic control,notify the crew of an intrusion and isolate the controls from the DVT and perform and emergency shut down of the engine before anyone would have had the chance to enter the cab.

It is likely that they entered the train via convenstional doors and that the majority of the damage was sustained before they boarded the train. The only way they could have done this is by using controls outside the train, placed there for use by the emergency services in the event of an accident.

There is really very little else anyone can do to have prevented this happening.

While I understand the percieved lack of respsonse from IE or NIR and public disappointed in same, they cannot be held accountable for several reasons.

1: It is publicly displayed that luggage is carried at owners risk where the owner is traveling with it, if the person is not traveling with it, it is the responsibilty of the third party with whom the owner entered contract to ship the item.

2: An act of terrorism or and act of god are not somthing the opperating companies take ownership of in any circumstance, be this civil unrest as in this case or delays due to adverse weather or other such circumstances outside of their control. To do so opens a can of worms and leaves them open to claims for any situation that may cause disruption or delay.

As a FORMER employee I can see both sides of the argument and frankly they are both good arguments.

They did let them selves down from a customer care point of view by not having staff on hand to meet the arrival but aside from that I cant fault them.

Oliver1985

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/thugs-doused-dublinbound-train-luggage-in-petrol-in-mass-murder-bid-2261480.html

:eek:

n0brain3r

Is this guy believable though I thought the passenger carriages where locked out and no one could access so how did this community worker gain access where the thugs couldn't?