What makes a "good" politician ?

Liam Byrne

Having seen loads of different indicators in different threads about what makes a good (or bad) politician, and the poor standard of politician that Ireland has, I thought we should start a discussion about what actually makes a good politician.

Some thoughts that I've picked up from boards (not necessarily my own opinions):

1) Looks after their own area / consituency
2) Can "sell" a lie or half-truth in order to achieve the result they want
3) Represents the people who voted for them
4) Represents all of their constituency
5) Represents the whole country, regardless of constituency
6) Takes action and has conviction, regardless or whether or not you agree with the action or conviction
7) Protects big business (ostensibly with a view to creating jobs)
8) Ensures a decent quality of life for those in the "working classes"
9) Has a defined objective / policy
10) Has no defined objective, but listens to what's required at the time
11) Balances short-term gains (and #9) with long-term sustainability
12) Works for "the party", towing the party line, to ensure they stay in government or get elected
13) Works for "the people", bucking the party line if needs be
14) Tells the truth and because they're trustworthy can "sell" any solutions as being in the best interest
15) Is a member of a party that you vote for for some civil war or self-interest reasons
16) Is a decent guy (based on other criteria) even if you disagree with their party
17) Seems like you could have a drink with them

To me, #5 (and to a small extent #4) are important, along with balancing #7 and #8......add in 10 & 11 (which have to be combined), along with 13 & 14 and I'm fairly happy, even if I disagree with their stance on some things.

What do others think ?

I mean, are there any criteria that I've missed ?

And what criteria will you be applying when the General Election is called ?

Riskymove

Liam Byrne wrote: »

To me, #5 (and to a small extent #4) are important, along with balancing #7 and #8......add in 10 & 11 (which have to be combined), along with 13 & 14 and I'm fairly happy, even if I disagree with their stance on some things.

the system is the problem here. with regard to 4&5..its all well having high ideals about every TD only concerned about national issues but the reality is:

1. only a few can actually have any influence at that level

2. they are elected locally so local issues are going to be the focus

7 &8 again how many TDs can influence such things? and so on

as long as we have so many popwerless backbenchers they are gonna occupy their time with re-election locally

mikemac

Let's look at number 1

It's all well to say my area will vote in a fantastic legislator. But we want someone to represent the area too.

For example, hunting is a big event in our area. Our government TD spoke out against the Stag hunting bill but still voted for it as per the party whip.
Our independent TD usually backs the government but blasted this bill and rejected it.
Before our hospital got downgraded our government TD promised they would fight for it and then went along with the ministers plan, thanks a lot so....
Our independent TD secured a lot for the area, no lies they definitely did.
Guess who tops the poll every time?


It's all well for our TD's to say they'll do what our area wants but the party whip defeats that.
I don't blame them entirely, they are a powerless backbencher, only the ministers have power.

So realy 9,10 and 11 get defeated by 12 and I rarely see 13
A backbencher could be sharpest, most intelligent and inspirational leader around but there is little they can do, not until they are minister.

So until they are in the cabinet they concentrate on local issues and they can't do munch else.

So I look at 1,3 & 4

Liam Byrne

I have to say that I'm surprised that there's so few responses to this thread.

Given the level of overall interest in the Politics thread, I'd have been sure more people had opinions.

celtanu

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I have to say that I'm surprised that there's so few responses to this thread.

Given the level of overall interest in the Politics thread, I'd have been sure more people had opinions.

What makes a good Politician?

1) Vision
2) Vision
3) Vision

I would add the Irish political system is not conducive to good Politicians. So perhaps the interesting question is how we could adjust the system to ensure that we can elect the right people to office. Ed Walsh has written about the issue on several occasions in the Irish Times. He advocates the List System which is in operation in most European countries. I concur with his view on this.

PeterIanStaker

What makes a good politician?

Integrity (of the pet hack in the Indo/Sindo who is paid to say good things about you)

Transparency (of the bay window overlooking the sea in the third home, bought using taxpayers' money)

Accountability (the many accounts in other countries)

AckwelFoley

Brains.



I know a chap, hes the incredibly honest, holds vast amounts of moral values and is a man with great integrity. Sadly though hes as dumb as a rock.

Great guy, would never tell a lie, but not someone i want to run the country.

For me, a politician and or political party is a someone that understands the value of peoples desire to succeed.

I suppose an centerist politician, not left wing not right wing - in the middle! I can stomach shightly to the right before i could slightly to the left, but im certainly not rightwing, i suppose its my hate for the utopian nonsence that is leftwing politics is what makes me look so right wing.

celtanu

snyper wrote: »

Brains.



I know a chap, hes the incredibly honest, holds vast amounts of moral values and is a man with great integrity. Sadly though hes as dumb as a rock.

Great guy, would never tell a lie, but not someone i want to run the country.

For me, a politician and or political party is a someone that understands the value of peoples desire to succeed.

I suppose an centerist politician, not left wing not right wing - in the middle! I can stomach shightly to the right before i could slightly to the left, but im certainly not rightwing, i suppose its my hate for the utopian nonsence that is leftwing politics is what makes me look so right wing.

What do you mean by succeed? do you know how the Irish Elk became extinct? well he succeeded to the point that he could no longer inhabit his environment.

AckwelFoley

celtanu wrote: »

What do you mean by succeed? do you know how the Irish Elk became extinct? well he succeeded to the point that he could no longer inhabit his environment.

We're not Elks.

I grew up poor, i work hard, the more i worked the more i was rewarded, and significantly the more tax i paid -- i made prudent financial decisions. I can afford a holiday and 2.5 kids

In left wing politics, i grew up poor, i dont have any ambition to work harder than anyone else as im not rewarded so my motivation is stifled, im still poor, my financial decsions are made for me. Im only allowed 1 child. If im lucky enough i'll move to another country, normally in a container or on a raft made from a 1965 Ford.

Liam Byrne

snyper wrote: »

I grew up poor, i work hard, the more i worked the more i was rewarded, and significantly the more tax i paid -- i made prudent financial decisions

So define "success", then ?

I grew up poor, I work hard, I made prudent financial decisions.....

Only I don't get rewarded much.......

What's the difference ?

What drives the "success" ?

And if you value people's desire to succeed.......well I can tell you that I desire to succeed, but it by no means guarantees it.

How do you measure the "desire" ?

celtanu

snyper wrote: »

We're not Elks.

I grew up poor, i work hard, the more i worked the more i was rewarded, and significantly the more tax i paid -- i made prudent financial decisions

In left wing politics, i grew up poor, i worked hard, im still poor, my financial decsions are made for me.

I didn't suggest we were Elks. I was asking you to explain what YOU meant by "succeed" -- the Human desire that you mentioned as being most important. It is possible that this means different things to different people, for example, to some it might just mean personal success to others it might mean group, or family, or community success. To some it might mean money and material things, to others it might mean relationships and immaterial things. I'm curious as to which aspect of 'success' the politician should understand?

And, I'm all for small government -- clip the wings off altogether !

ei.sdraob

integrity

AckwelFoley

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So define "success", then ?

I grew up poor, I work hard, I made prudent financial decisions.....

Only I don't get rewarded much.......

What's the difference ?

What drives the "success" ?

And if you value people's desire to succeed.......well I can tell you that I desire to succeed, but it by no means guarantees it.

How do you measure the "desire" ?

Nothing drives success, sucess is a destination, the persuit of which is the driving factor.

Nothing guarantees sucess, just because i wanted to be Pele when i was younger doesnt mean i was going to be, but i spent alot of time playing football and i enjoyed doing it..

Success is different for each person, its not a one cap fits all. I strive to work at things that earn money so that i can provide for my family and afford things i may not afford if i didnt work as hard.

AckwelFoley

celtanu wrote: »

I didn't suggest we were Elks. I was asking you to explain what YOU meant by "succeed" -- the Human desire that you mentioned as being most important. It is possible that this means different things to different people, for example, to some it might just mean personal success to others it might mean group, or family, or community success. To some it might mean money and material things, to others it might mean relationships and immaterial things. I'm curious as to which aspect of 'success' the politician should understand?

And, I'm all for small government -- clip the wings off altogether !

The politician should understand that many people have a desire to be wealthy. That cant be denied, otherwise nobody would buy a lotto ticket.

If people desire be a more sucesful business person this creates more employment and more revenue for the state.

As opposed to Sinn Fein's far left politics.

Gravy Fanatic

Sure if he gets things done, thats what makes the politican. This is practical stuff which FF have been trying, the boys over at FG and Labour love talkin, but not walkin if you catch my drift. Down were i'm from we are tough on the politicans and if they are not up to we fire them from the parish leadership role.

Liam Byrne

Gravy Fanatic wrote: »

Sure if he gets things done, thats what makes the politican.

I know I'm going to regret this, but what "things" ?

Parish pump stuff, looking after his buddies, bailing out and giving jobs to his cronies ?

Or his (or her) actual job - running the country and managing the economy and jobs to avoid recessions and unemployment ?

mikemac

Ministers do the legislating and run the country.
Your local TD is only asked to follow the whip unless they are independent and then expectations rise, they made promises to the area so now go and deliver.
People in most parts of the country are shocked that Michael Lowry tops the poll every time, if he didn't deliver he'd be booted out a long time ago. But he does and continues to do it well.

I don't know anything about a local TD having cronies, maybe so but I wouldn't know.
Or what jobs they can give.

If you have an issue and you think a politician can help , then realy you'll ask the local TD to get involved, not a councillor.
Maybe the TD has no power either but is more likely to get a response or an answer to a letter from some arm of the State.

It started as an interesting thread, I wonder were you genuinely asking or is this going to go down the ranting route which I see so often.

Shea O'Meara

Ideally;
A selfless person. The wage they receive meets or exceeds their want of monitery wealth. Someone who cares about those around them and the country as a whole. Someone who takes pride in civic achievement, worse case scenario has an ego based on the good they did for their country and fellow countrymen. A person who will take a knock on the chin regarding the loss of a seat to stand by their convictions be they popular or not.

....I said ideally.

DrumSteve

the ability to have a neck like a jockey bollix.

you have to be brazen and not care what people think.

a politician tells people what they want to hear (im looking at you gilmore).

A good politican will tell people the truth and let them decide for themselves.

Liam Byrne

feelingstressed wrote: »

It started as an interesting thread, I wonder were you genuinely asking or is this going to go down the ranting route which I see so often.

It's genuine. People have rattled off so often that politicians are crap that I thought it would be interesting to examine what criteria they might actually apply when voting next time around.