Employment Law Issue

pvp

Hi,
Couple friends of mine are pretty sure that guys in work which are doing same work are getting higher wages. They did say about it to the manager but nothing was done.
Just wonder what way should they argue and what is the first forum to lodge complaint to?
Thanks!

pvp

Any ideas, guys?

racso1975

Can you tell us what type of job it is? Is there a say scale in place? I have 4 employee's all on different wages but same say scale. Could the other employee be there longer?

pvp

Thanks for reply!
As far as I consider people working in the same company and doing same or equal work must be getting same wages.
I know that could be difference because of length of service, but in my situation they are just about the same time employed.
Occupation is fork lift drivers.

pvp

I think that this issue is under Employment Equality Acts’1998 and complaint have to be referred to the Equality Tribunal, can anybody confirm it?
According to the EEA’1998 must establish like work, same employer, relevant time, comparator and no objective justifications. Is anything else can be relevant to prove it?
Thanks!

racso1975

1) Well firstly are you still only pretty sure or do you have definative proof that somebody is getting paid more?

2) When the Manger was approached what was his explaination?

3)

As far as I consider people working in the same company and doing same or equal work must be getting same wages

As i said that is not the case. Payscales exist in loads of jobs you can negotiate higher pay if you are better qualified, better experienced etc

4) What kind of numbers are we taking about here? How many of your friends v guys on higher wages?

pvp

racso1975 wrote: »

1) Well firstly are you still only pretty sure or do you have definative proof that somebody is getting paid more?

2) When the Manger was approached what was his explaination?

3) As i said that is not the case. Payscales exist in loads of jobs you can negotiate higher pay if you are better qualified, better experienced etc

4) What kind of numbers are we taking about here? How many of your friends v guys on higher wages?

1. Yes I am sure. But as far as I know in a case of hearing employer will need to show that workers are getting same wages, not employees.
2. No real explanation
3. If something exist it doesnt mean its legal. In this case there is no justified explanation of higher wages whatsoever.
4. 10 v 10

Sangre

Unless the reason for the increased pay is because of one of the nine discriminatory grounds under the Equality Act there is no real argument here that I can see. Unless your friend is paid less because he on a fixed term contract (not permitted) or he is paid less pro-rata because he is part-time.

People doing the same job can often be paid differently, due to experience, qualifications or even as simple as their contractual basis.

Of course, this ignores the obvious HR issues.

pvp

Thanks!
But how about legislation, e.g. Employment Equality Acts 1998 where it says different pay must be objectively justified? Amongst other factors must be comparator (Sec. 19 (3)), and there is nothing saying that comparator must be based on the discrimination grounds.
As I mentioned before there is no differences between workers qualifications or services.

Sangre

s19(3) specifically deals with different pay between members of the opposite sex.

Are any of the workers different genders?

pvp

I see now, thanks for the clarification!
They are of the same sex. Does it mean that there is no way to argue apart from discrimination grounds?
Is Rights Commissioner not dealing with issues like this involving individual workers in regards of the rates of pay?

Sangre

From the facts given, I can't see any reason the Equality Acts given could be applied. The Acts exist to prevent discrimination on the 9 listed grounds e.g. race, it is not there to prevent parties from freely contracting with each other at a specified rate of pay. To do so would greatly limit the freedom of both employers and employees.

Maybe the only other solution would be to raise it as a HR or industrial relations issue.

Of course, legal advice should always be sought if you there is a potential legal issue.

pvp

Thank you!
If to argue under Industrial Relations Acts what is a forum to lodge complaint, Labour Court or Rights Commissioner?

Sangre

IR is not an area I am familair with. I do not even know if it is applicable. Is the company unionised?

Pratically speaking, the first port of call should be the company. Has this grievance been raised with them?

pvp

No union accepted and yes it was raised but this Company is care only about profits not workers, so the answer was basically "guys forget about it".

FreudianSlippers

I don't think you have any grounds for a complaint honestly.
You say that each worker has same length of service, same qualifications etc. but an employer could consider previous number of jobs, previous responsibilities, education... basically any number of things could be taken into account when determining pay.

Unless you are saying that all of the candidates are identical in EVERY possible way I just don't see how you would be able to identify that you are being discriminated against.
As previously mentioned there are the 9 listed grounds and if you feel you fall into one of those then you may have a case - but even then, the company can likely show something on the CVs which differentiates your 10 co-workers from you.

A company really isn't under any obligation to equally pay all of its employees once they are paid at least minimum wage (and I believe there are even exceptions to that) and the unequal pay is not as a result of discrimination based on sex, race, religion, etc.

Finally, you state that the work is the same, but there is a small but significant difference in employment law between equal work and work of equal value.

That being said, only a solicitor can consider all of the merits of any claim you may have and it may be useful to contact one.