Is gait analysis a load of cobblers?

W.B. Yeats

I've been thinking of getting some new runners and of getting gait analysis done. I've seen it going on in 2 places and to be honest I can't say that I've been impressed. Both times I've seen people being asked to run along some sort of a rubber strip ~8-10 feet long that then records what way they run which allows the salesperson prescribe the type of shoe you need to buy.

i would have thought that to get a real record of how someone runs you'd need a lot longer than 10 feet? If it was me I'd imagine myself running funny or flatfooted when having my "gait analysed" with the result that I'd get the incorrect shoes. I'd have thought that you'd need a much longer record of how you run. Does anyone use a treadmill for analysis?
I was also unimpressed by the sales man in one of the places where there were people getting this done that weren't runners at all and were having shoes sold to them.

At the moment I'm inclined to think that someone from a shoe company came up with the bright idea of gait analysis to sell more shoes and add a bit of technical voodoo to the process.

Is there any evidence that gait analysis works?
Is there much difference between the places doing this?
Love to hear people's views on this

catweazle

I did it in Elverys Galway on a treadmill. My first mistake was that I hopped up and pressed 12 for pace.......I assumed 12k not miles so i spent the whole test trying to slow the treadmill down before i fell off

He told me I had a neutral gait so told me to keep away from the Kayanos and the other most expensive pair in their so I was happy with that.

The runners he recommended while my times have improved, thats more a consequence of coming down from marathon training they having being giving me awful blisters problems which I never got before

There seems to be no breaking them in, I have them a couple of months now and am still fighting off blisters after most runs.

Although I ran Achill half last week and I will admit I felt as strong as I ever have in a run

ThisRegard

W.B. Yeats wrote: »

At the moment I'm inclined to think that someone from a shoe company came up with the bright idea of gait analysis to sell more shoes and add a bit of technical voodoo to the process.

Even if there was no gait analysis people would still need shoes ! It's not going to sell more shoes, just different types.

RayCun

I've been in two places, Elverys (Dundrum) and Amphibian King.
Elverys put me on a treadmill, but the assistant didn't seem all that knowledgeable. Perhaps enough to see 'neutral, 'over-pronate' or 'under-pronate', and know one type of shoe for each gait.
Amphibian King had the yellow runway, but the woman in there seemed to know a lot more about what she was looking at, and the different type of shoe.

I wouldn't worry so much about treamill vs runway. I'd be more concerned that running for a minute in a shop is different to running your fifth mile in a race. But I don't see any good way around this - you can't try on every pair, take them for a mile run, and video your gait halfway through the run.

So, I reckon its just another tool that a good fitter will use - they'll ask how much you run, any injury problems you have, oook at your current runners (all of which AK did, but not Elverys) and look at your gait, and its the combination of everything that makes for better advice.

W.B. Yeats

ThisRegard wrote: »

Even if there was no gait analysis people would still need shoes ! It's not going to sell more shoes, just different types.

But if you were a shoe company you'd want to sell your expensive £super dooper anti over pronator make you run pb" shoes for more than the ones that a punter might pick out for himself/herself;)
Call me cynical and you'd be right

ThisRegard

W.B. Yeats wrote: »

Call me cynical and you'd be right

Cynic !

There is something behind it though, you run enough in the wrong shoes and you'll find yourself getting aches and pains around the legs, hips and back.

W.B. Yeats

RayCun wrote: »

So, I reckon its just another tool that a good fitter will use - they'll ask how much you run, any injury problems you have, oook at your current runners (all of which AK did, but not Elverys) and look at your gait, and its the combination of everything that makes for better advice.

All sounds reasonable as part of a suite of things that you'd use before making a decision on what shoes to buy
Is there any science to back up gait analysis as a performance aid though I wonder?
I remember reading an interview with Damien Duff where he went through the "sports science" that he was subjected to at Chelsea, he maintained that analysing how he ran etc. enabled them to predict the type of injuries he'd suffer and the sort of conditioning he needed to undergo to prevent them.

T runner

W.B. Yeats wrote: »

I've been thinking of getting some new runners and of getting gait analysis done. I've seen it going on in 2 places and to be honest I can't say that I've been impressed. Both times I've seen people being asked to run along some sort of a rubber strip ~8-10 feet long that then records what way they run which allows the salesperson prescribe the type of shoe you need to buy.

i would have thought that to get a real record of how someone runs you'd need a lot longer than 10 feet? If it was me I'd imagine myself running funny or flatfooted when having my "gait analysed" with the result that I'd get the incorrect shoes. I'd have thought that you'd need a much longer record of how you run. Does anyone use a treadmill for analysis?
I was also unimpressed by the sales man in one of the places where there were people getting this done that weren't runners at all and were having shoes sold to them.

At the moment I'm inclined to think that someone from a shoe company came up with the bright idea of gait analysis to sell more shoes and add a bit of technical voodoo to the process.

Is there any evidence that gait analysis works?
Is there much difference between the places doing this?
Love to hear people's views on this

My 2 cents.

Gait analysis may show issues with your current biomechanics.

These issues are usually caused by being in shoes that take the shock off your feet.

I used to use medium weight support trainers. Now I train in minimalist racing shoes. Staying in the support shoes only prolongues the issues (and keeps shoe companies rich).

Use a shoe with less cushioning and support than the analysis tells you you need. Move down similarly on your next pair until you can run in nice, cheap lighweights.

If you were to run in lightweights now you would immediately change your gait. The big shock going up your leg bones through your joints would be too painful in lightweights. You would immediately increase your cadence, landing with slightly bended knee and pulling the ground with your foot rather than bouncing off it.

Support shoes not alone disguise the issue, they make it permanent.

(An exception might be a recovery run on a very hard surface where cushioned shoes might serve a purpose.)

So gait analysis arenet a load of cobblers, the cobblers are a load of cobblers!



(cobblers = support shoe manufacturer)

shu

I had my gait analysed in the running shop on Parnell St. in Dublin when I first started to run and the man seemed very knowledgeable. He had me run on the treadmill with a camera that focused in on my feet while running and he examined my old runners also. He managed to pick up on my weak ankles from the way I ran which I was quite impressed with. The runners are great and they didnt cost any more than a pair of Nikes in the sport shop would. So I would definitely recommend it!

dare2be

T runner wrote: »

My 2 cents.

Gait analysis may show issues with your current biomechanics.

These issues are usually caused by being in shoes that take the shock off your feet.

I used to use medium weight support trainers. Now I train in minimalist racing shoes. Staying in the support shoes only prolongues the issues (and keeps shoe companies rich).

Use a shoe with less cushioning and support than the analysis tells you you need. Move down similarly on your next pair until you can run in nice, cheap lighweights.

If you were to run in lightweights now you would immediately change your gait. The big shock going up your leg bones through your joints would be too painful in lightweights. You would immediately increase your cadence, landing with slightly bended knee and pulling the ground with your foot rather than bouncing off it.

Support shoes not alone disguise the issue, they make it permanent.

(An exception might be a recovery run on a very hard surface where cushioned shoes might serve a purpose.)

So gait analysis arenet a load of cobblers, the cobblers are a load of cobblers!



(cobblers = support shoe manufacturer)

I've changed from a 'structured' trainer to the lightweight Adidas Adizero Pro and its a heeluva difference ( on the plus side). I'm that happy with them i'm going to buy me a second pair very shortly just in case they discontinue, as things like those normally do for some reason.

seanynova

got mt gait analysed a few months ago when first started road running:
the guy in the shop asked me to walk briskly on a mat 3 times in each foot(mat was only big enough for one foot landing)
he then printed out a copy of my weight zones and he explained where im putting my weight when landing, transition and lift off etc.
he went on to tell me that i severly overpronate, and highly recommended orthotics. he advised me that orthotics would also make me run faster, as each foot would roll forwrard in a more efficient manner, thus taking milliseconds off each foot transition(over time, taking mins off my times). before he was finished he took out a brochure for an orthotics clinic(where he worked) and said, if i want to get orthotics to give them a call. otherwise get a pair of runners with maximium cushioning and support, eg asics kayano @150euro.

as it happened i didnt like the fit of the asics, and bought the nike structure triax13 @ 100euro.

since then i have got my gait rechecked at John Buckley Sports and The edge, the expo at edinburgh marathon(video) and Running Room in canada and all said, my arches are fine, but my foot rolls in slightly, they all recommended a cushioned shoe(except asics expo).
JBS: Nike Vomero 5s.
Edge: Mizuno Wave Riders 13s.
RR: Mizuno Wave Riders 13s.
Asics Expo: Asics 2150s

so, i would get checed more than once coz i now feel like i should run in a structured shoe as when i try on cushioned shoes they just dont feel right. at the moment im wearing mizuno wave inspire 6s but will work down to the elixir 5s and back to a cushioned shoe like wave riders during the winter.

W.B. Yeats

dare2be wrote: »

I've changed from a 'structured' trainer to the lightweight Adidas Adizero Pro and its a heeluva difference ( on the plus side). I'm that happy with them i'm going to buy me a second pair very shortly just in case they discontinue, as things like those normally do for some reason.

= end of product lifecycle
They'll then have another "breakthrough" for you to spend your money on

dare2be

W.B. Yeats wrote: »

= end of product lifecycle
They'll then have another "breakthrough" for you to spend your money on

Well nobody 'sold' them to me a breakthrough, i was persuaded by the the lightness of them as my previous pair were like carrying 6inch concrete blocks. I'm not into the gait analysis but do think you should not scrimp on the cost of a trainer if you are putting in the mileage

digme

I think it's a load of nonsense.

InTheTrees

Cured my knee issues.

Burgman

seanynova wrote: »

he went on to tell me that i severly overpronate, and highly recommended orthodontics. he advised me that orthodontics would also make me run faster, as each foot would roll forwrard in a more efficient manner, thus taking milliseconds off each foot transition(over time, taking mins off my times). before he was finished he took out a brochure for an orthodontics clinic(where he worked) and said, if i want to get orthodontics to give them a call.

Sounds like you have put your foot in your mouth here!

InTheTrees

seanynova wrote: »

he advised me that orthodontics would also make me run faster.

You can never trust a dentist. Mine told me it would double my IQ.

Mr Cawley

InTheTrees wrote: »

You can never trust a dentist. Mine told me it would double my IQ.

Smart sh1te:D Endodontist

seanynova

Burgman wrote: »

Sounds like you have put your foot in your mouth here!

oh, get it now!

W.B. Yeats

INtereseting replies but so far not conclusive that there are real, reproducible and predictable benefits arising as a result of Gait analysis
Anecdotally according to this straw poll at least it appears to be beneficial with the caveat that the operator/gait analyser knows what they are doing

RayCun

W.B. Yeats wrote: »

INtereseting replies but so far not conclusive that there are real, reproducible and predictable benefits arising as a result of Gait analysis

Were you expecting links to peer-reviewed papers of mass studies using double-blinded control groups?

mloc123

I think the problem with gait analysis is that people see it as an easy way out.
Most people would be far better off working on their stride for long term benefit but instead they get new runners and continue to land on their heels.

W.B. Yeats

RayCun wrote: »

Were you expecting links to peer-reviewed papers of mass studies using double-blinded control groups?

Ultimately yes
If this thing works then it should be demonstrable in some way- it may not be random double blind studies but there should be some evidence that there is more to this than a marketing strategy. I've done a quick google search and can't see anything and I wonder has anyone here seen something.

RayCun

Have you found any scientific papers demonstrating any element of conventional running wisdom?
Any conclusive proof that runners who over-pronate have fewer injuries when they wear shoes with more support?
Any peer-reviewed papers comparing long runs at LSR pace to long runs at PMP pace, controlling for runner ability?
Or anything similar?

You seem to be looking for something that I wouldn't expect to exist.

SamB64

...and to be honestthey told me why my knees hurt but orthotics madethings better but I still can't run as flat feet with high fore foot varus.

But, what was excellent was getting my bike properly set up and feet anckle alinged with custom footbeds and wedges - www.cyclefit.co.uk I have no relationship withthem other than delighted customer - but it has transformed my cycling.

Faster, less pain and I can wear SPDs now which I have never been able to get away with

Sam.

W.B. Yeats

RayCun wrote: »

Have you found any scientific papers demonstrating any element of conventional running wisdom?
Any conclusive proof that runners who over-pronate have fewer injuries when they wear shoes with more support?
Any peer-reviewed papers comparing long runs at LSR pace to long runs at PMP pace, controlling for runner ability?
Or anything similar?

You seem to be looking for something that I wouldn't expect to exist.

Conventional wisdom is all well and good until its proven to be untrue
I'd hazard a guess that there are a few million recreational runners in the world and we are being sold a process as a value add that seems to have nothing to back it up.
Its interesting because I'd expect the manufacturers to have some "field trial" to prove the benefits of the product over a period of a few months. It would be relatively easy to set up, how scientifically real it would be is another story. If I was the product manager that's the least I'd do.

RayCun

But we're being 'sold' the process as a value-add by shops, not by manufacturers. Nike don't care where you buy their shoes.

Who is going to pay to have such a study carried out?

Bloody Nipples

I got tendonitis in my knee back at the beginning of the year as a result of wearing neutral shoes that have relatively low arch support ( I have a low arch on my left foot), I was recommended to get a pair of shoes with good arch support by my physio when she did a gait analysis. Cleared up my problems anyway. And she clearly believed in it. So if you can't trust a physio who can you trust?

seanynova

try this for a home analysis?

http://www.myprecisionfit.com/test/welcome?lang=en_US&noAnswerSelected=

dont know it is accurate and it product specific but it might be worth knowing some of the stuff in it

troops

i'm inclined to think it's a load of crap.
ran in a €20 pair of runners for months, did 10 mile race in phoenix pk..no probs...then went for the marathon..everyone said u have to get gait analysis, spend 100 notes on a good pair...blah..blah...else u'll be crippled for life...got the good pair....took a month to break the feckers in...did the marathon in them...ok no probs....point being - I reckon the €20 pair would have done the trick for the marathon and wouldn't have had to break them in

BJohnson

There was an interesting research article in the British Journal of Sports Medicine not too long ago titled "Is your prescription of distance running shoes evidence-based?". You can read the actual study at:

http://www.barkleychiropractic.com/uploads/Evidence_Based_Running_Shoe_Selection.pdf

In general, the main finding of this systematic review is that the effectiveness of "pronation control elevated, cushioned heel” (PCECH) shoes for preventing injuries and improving performance in distance runners has yet to be determined. Specifically, the review found the following:

• No controlled trials were identified that used PCECH shoes as the specific intervention.
• No systematic reviews or original research papers were identified that evaluated PCECH shoes and running enjoyment, physical activity levels, or the start and continuation of physical activity.
• No articles were found that studied the use of PCECH shoes on osteoarthritis prevention in the leg.
• No articles were found on the use of PCECH shoes and their effect on distance running performance.

Anyway, hope that answers some questions for you.

W.B. Yeats

BJohnson wrote: »

There was an interesting research article in the British Journal of Sports Medicine not too long ago titled "Is your prescription of distance running shoes evidence-based?". You can read the actual study at:

http://www.barkleychiropractic.com/uploads/Evidence_Based_Running_Shoe_Selection.pdf

In general, the main finding of this systematic review is that the effectiveness of "pronation control elevated, cushioned heel” (PCECH) shoes for preventing injuries and improving performance in distance runners has yet to be determined. Specifically, the review found the following:

• No controlled trials were identified that used PCECH shoes as the specific intervention.
• No systematic reviews or original research papers were identified that evaluated PCECH shoes and running enjoyment, physical activity levels, or the start and continuation of physical activity.
• No articles were found that studied the use of PCECH shoes on osteoarthritis prevention in the leg.
• No articles were found on the use of PCECH shoes and their effect on distance running performance.

Anyway, hope that answers some questions for you.

Thanks for that, will have a read through

Burgman

08-07-2010, 18:09

Burgman wrote: »

Sounds like you have put your foot in your mouth here!

08-07-2010 18:34

seanynova wrote: »

oh, get it now!

Obviously your exertions in Edinburgh took more out of you than you think.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66033202&postcount=132

(How many weeks ago is it now? Although I have no excuse for taking so long to make the connection!)

seanynova

Burgman wrote: »

08-07-2010, 18:09


08-07-2010 18:34


Obviously your exertions in Edinburgh took more out of you than you think.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66033202&postcount=132

(How many weeks ago is it now? Although I have no excuse for taking so long to make the connection!)

not long enough it would seem!

took me a bit to get what you were saying, i was like...."what is burgman talking about!?!" anyway a quick read over the post and i guess it was fairly obvious! opps...