Need to get the wife sacked so we can have another kid

Rabidlamb

Something has to be wrong with my sums.
We have 2 kids, ages one & 3, they cost €250 a week full time childcare.
The oldest wont start school until they are 5 so we have full childcare costs for the next 2 years.
We both have to work to service the mortgage, outgoings etc.
If we wanted to have a 3rd child then there would be no point in my wife working.
We would save €250 a week in childcare but loose all of her salary, this would leave us too tight on all our bills.
If however my wife gets laid off or made redundant she'll be entitled to €194 a week in jobseekers.
This wouldn't fully make up the difference but not having a 2nd car would be another saving.
I'm going around now with a 9-iron to beat up her boss . . . joking of course.

The system is rigged so that one of us are better off being made unemployed if we want a larger family.
Is there something wrong with my thinking or is my logic sound ?.

Note to pedants:
It's assumed that someone receiving jobseekers is "actively" looking for a job.
Like everyone else out there.

Tipp Man

I would say that given the astronomical costs of childcare there are a lot of households in the country which would be better off with only 1 person working

Problem is that most couples in the land have huge mortgages to be serviced so need both incomes if possible. It makes you wonder really just what were couples thinking paying these huge amounts for houses?? Better off if they never saw them IMO

Riskymove

this might be best placed on the State benefits thread as oppossed to here

answer A
the period from the birth of your 3rd child (well, really the end of maternity I suppose) to your first born going to school, would be short enough

the extra child beenefit would contribute to the costs

Answer BIf you cant afford a third child then dont have one

Scarab80

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Something has to be wrong with my sums.
We have 2 kids, ages one & 3, they cost €250 a week full time childcare.
The oldest wont start school until they are 5 so we have full childcare costs for the next 2 years.
We both have to work to service the mortgage, outgoings etc.
If we wanted to have a 3rd child then there would be no point in my wife working.
We would save €250 a week in childcare but loose all of her salary, this would leave us too tight on all our bills.
If however my wife gets laid off or made redundant she'll be entitled to €194 a week in jobseekers.
This wouldn't fully make up the difference but not having a 2nd car would be another saving.
I'm going around now with a 9-iron to beat up her boss . . . joking of course.

The system is rigged so that one of us are better off being made unemployed if we want a larger family.
Is there something wrong with my thinking or is my logic sound ?.

Note to pedants:
It's assumed that someone receiving jobseekers is "actively" looking for a job.
Like everyone else out there.

It completely depends on how much your wife gets paid, which you haven't posted.

Nijmegen

While I would first say, don't do it if you can't afford it, I do agree that where there exists a state framework of benefits and taxes to skew this discussion, the state should not make it more attractive for people to be on benefits than working, under any circumstances.

Riskymove

Nijmegen wrote: »

the state should not make it more attractive for people to be on benefits than working, under any circumstances.

in this scenario, technically it doesn't

the people involved would be contravening the rules of the benefit

Count Dooku

Riskymove wrote: »

Answer BIf you cant afford a third child then dont have one

Does it mean that only “most vulnerable” can have as much kids as they want?

Rabidlamb

Scarab80 wrote: »

It completely depends on how much your wife gets paid, which you haven't posted.

Sorry, takes home about €600 a week, after tax.

Shzm

She'd only get the 196 for a year anyway (JSB), after which she'll be means tested for JSA and probably end up getting 0 as you're working.

Rabidlamb

Count Dooku wrote: »

Does it mean that only “most vulnerable” can have as much kids as they want?

Ah yes, the survival of the weakest.
Evolution gone backwards.

Scarab80

Have you checked to see if you qualify for FIS, that increases with the amount of children you have.

ei.sdraob

some recession aint it when it makes more sense to go on welfare

Rabidlamb

Scarab80 wrote: »

Have you checked to see if you qualify for FIS, that increases with the amount of children you have.

No, but I am on good money so I never even thought of it.
Imagine taking money from the state, seems absurd.

ectoraige

Rabidlamb wrote: »

No, but I am on good money so I never even thought of it.
Imagine taking money from the state, seems absurd.

Your three-year old should qualify for the free pre-school year from next September, have you included that in your sums?

Riskymove

Rabidlamb wrote: »

No, but I am on good money so I never even thought of it.
Imagine taking money from the state, seems absurd.

do you take Child Benefit?

Riskymove

Count Dooku wrote: »

Does it mean that only “most vulnerable” can have as much kids as they want?

No

Rabidlamb

ectoraige wrote: »

Your three-year old should qualify for the free pre-school year from next September, have you included that in your sums?

Only helps if the childminder will accept less, she may still want full whack as she'll have to do drop off & pick up.

Rabidlamb

Riskymove wrote: »

do you take Child Benefit?

Yes, as do most the millionaires in the country.
Seriously, I never considered it as welfare cause everyone gets it.

Count Dooku

Riskymove wrote: »

No

Oops
I forgot that very rich can also have as much kids as they want
Why not to sterilize taxpaying slaves on low-medium income?

jock101

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Something has to be wrong with my sums.
We have 2 kids, ages one & 3, they cost €250 a week full time childcare.
The oldest wont start school until they are 5 so we have full childcare costs for the next 2 years.
We both have to work to service the mortgage, outgoings etc.
If we wanted to have a 3rd child then there would be no point in my wife working.
We would save €250 a week in childcare but loose all of her salary, this would leave us too tight on all our bills.
If however my wife gets laid off or made redundant she'll be entitled to €194 a week in jobseekers.
This wouldn't fully make up the difference but not having a 2nd car would be another saving.
I'm going around now with a 9-iron to beat up her boss . . . joking of course.

The system is rigged so that one of us are better off being made unemployed if we want a larger family.
Is there something wrong with my thinking or is my logic sound ?.

Note to pedants:
It's assumed that someone receiving jobseekers is "actively" looking for a job.
Like everyone else out there.

Have you ever considered, Not having Children you obviously cant afford!:rolleyes:

Riskymove

Count Dooku wrote: »

Why not to sterilize taxpaying slaves on low-medium income?

:pac:

jock101

Riskymove wrote: »

:pac:

Self control and contraception, ever heard of it!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Or does the State have to legislate for it now!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Rabidlamb

jock101 wrote: »

Have you ever considered, Not having Children you obviously cant afford!:rolleyes:

No, I'm very randy & the wife can't be trusted to take her pill.
Anyway, I see loads of poor people with 4 or 5 kids & they can afford them.

Riskymove

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Yes, as do most the millionaires in the country.
Seriously, I never considered it as welfare cause everyone gets it.

so child benefit and JSA would be fine but you have a problem with FIS?

jock101

Rabidlamb wrote: »

No, I'm very randy & the wife can't be trusted to take her pill.
Anyway, I see loads of poor people with 4 or 5 kids & they can afford them.

That's the problem, the more you mount, the more benefits you get!:rolleyes:

Rabidlamb

Riskymove wrote: »

so child benefit and JSA would be fine but you have a problem with FIS?

Scenario is only hypothetical, of course I'll accept any money the government want to give me.
The missus wont be giving up her job anyway, I was only pointing out the loophole in the system.

Sleepy

Living in Dublin with the girlfriend and two kids and even without job seekers benefit / allowance, it's not worth our while for her to work when childcare, transport costs etc. are taken into account.

dan_d

Hmm. This ranks right up there with something I've been pondering. I've been paying my bills, taking my paycuts, paying my taxes, and saving a bit every month for the last few years while I worked. I have some money, but not a whole lot.

So I'm told if I have savings I'm not entitled to get JSA/JSB etc, I've to "come back to them when I've run through my savings and have nothing left".Leaving me with absolutely nothing in case of an emergency...ie hospital visits, car tax etc.

Yet the lads who blew every penny of their over inflated building site wages on souped up cars, loads of holidays etc, and are now redundant with not a penny saved nor any kind of qualification, are straight away entitled to every benefit there is.

I understand the thinking in that I could support myself for a month or 2, and be one less person on social welfare, but I can't help feeling like I'm being penalised for being sensible with my money.

Anyone??

ei.sdraob

dan_d wrote: »

but I can't help feeling like I'm being penalised for being sensible with my money.

Anyone??

+1

lucy2010

slightly off topic...

A leaflet came in my door only this morning.. Special offer for a creche thingy
"€1000 off 1st month" "€1500 off 1st month for 2 or more children" - I nearly choked . Is that what these places actually charge ?

Rabidlamb

Sleepy wrote: »

Living in Dublin with the girlfriend and two kids and even without job seekers benefit / allowance, it's not worth our while for her to work when childcare, transport costs etc. are taken into account.

Not married you say, you better go quick before they turn you into one of those civil couples.
I sympathise with your situation as it's close to mine.
Wait until they come after us for water rates & property tax, sure we're the tiger generation that can afford it.

Rabidlamb

lucy2010 wrote: »

slightly off topic...

A leaflet came in my door only this morning.. Special offer for a creche thingy
"€1000 off 1st month" "€1500 off 1st month for 2 or more children" - I nearly choked . Is that what these places actually charge ?

Maybe near Dublin, we were paying about €1200 a month for 2 kids in South Kildare.
These creches will suffer as there's a ready supply of well able childminders only looking to top up their dole.

RoyalMarine

dan_d wrote: »

Hmm. This ranks right up there with something I've been pondering. I've been paying my bills, taking my paycuts, paying my taxes, and saving a bit every month for the last few years while I worked. I have some money, but not a whole lot.

So I'm told if I have savings I'm not entitled to get JSA/JSB etc, I've to "come back to them when I've run through my savings and have nothing left".Leaving me with absolutely nothing in case of an emergency...ie hospital visits, car tax etc.

Yet the lads who blew every penny of their over inflated building site wages on souped up cars, loads of holidays etc, and are now redundant with not a penny saved nor any kind of qualification, are straight away entitled to every benefit there is.

I understand the thinking in that I could support myself for a month or 2, and be one less person on social welfare, but I can't help feeling like I'm being penalised for being sensible with my money.

Anyone??

then "spend" the savings, and go on welfare. its what everyone else who has savings does.

lucy2010

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Maybe near Dublin, we were paying about €1200 a month for 2 kids in South Kildare.
These creches will suffer as there's a ready supply of well able childminders only looking to top up their dole.

When I was employed I had a childminder & no where near it for 2 kiddies ( sth dublin) thats why im so shocked. Thats a wage nearly just to have them minded

jock101

Need to get the wife sacked so we can have another kid

On a lighter note.

Should that not be Need to get the wife into the sack so we can have another kid,;):o.

dan_d

RoyalMarineComm wrote: »

then "spend" the savings, and go on welfare. its what everyone else who has savings does.

Great system we have, huh...:mad:...try to do the sensible honest thing, and get stung for it. No wonder we have such an obsession with getting around laws as a society...anyone who does anything halfway honest/sensible gets taken for a ride due to our stupid laws.
:mad: (and another one for good measure!):mad:

lynski

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Maybe near Dublin, we were paying about €1200 a month for 2 kids in South Kildare.
These creches will suffer as there's a ready supply of well able childminders only looking to top up their dole.

if my 2 were in creche it would be 800 for first one and 890 for second with 10% off cheaper one so a total of 1610 per month

I am on jsa and dread it ending as we will be so screwed!

lmimmfn

we've only one kid on the way, we're both working and honestly i dont understand how people who work in ireland can afford to have even 1 kid and live comfortably, we'll be ok, but juggling the options at the moment is a bit hit and miss.

Its an absolute disgrace, in Sweden the creche is free as its funded by the government, here the only option is to work and maybe have 1 kid, or dont work at all, have 8 kids and get a fortune on social.

dan_d

Creche fees are basically a second mortgage every month, which is a complete and total disgrace, as you are just feeding into someone's private pocket to pay for the necessity of caring for your child while you work to provide a roof over their head.

People are entitled to make a living, but there is no doubt that the issue of childcare needs to be looked at....fees are ridiculously high. Of course that would be forward thinking for the benefit of society of a whole on the part of our Gov -which will never happen:rolleyes:

I personally do not have children yet, and while I know it's great to idealistically plan things from my situation, I feel that when I do eventually have kids, the last place I'll be looking to put them is a creche - I'll do my utmost to find a childminder. Aside from anything else, the fees alone make me sick, and I really don't want to be adding to the fact that many creche owners are creaming it from parents.

Rabidlamb

dan_d wrote: »

Creche fees are basically a second mortgage every month, which is a complete and total disgrace, as you are just feeding into someone's private pocket to pay for the necessity of caring for your child while you work to provide a roof over their head.

Pretty much a 2nd mortgage, more in some cases.
Frightening for someone who's finding it tough to meet outgoings before the child arrives.
Also the fact that most employers wont make up the difference between maternity benefits & a normal salary acts a huge deterrent to having kids.

dan_d wrote: »

People are entitled to make a living, but there is no doubt that the issue of childcare needs to be looked at....fees are ridiculously high. Of course that would be forward thinking for the benefit of society of a whole on the part of our Gov -which will never happen:rolleyes:

This of course means greater subsidy from the already burdened tax payer.
Also people who make a conscience decision not to have children may feel this is unfair in the extreme.

dan_d wrote: »

I personally do not have children yet, and while I know it's great to idealistically plan things from my situation, I feel that when I do eventually have kids, the last place I'll be looking to put them is a creche - I'll do my utmost to find a childminder. Aside from anything else, the fees alone make me sick, and I really don't want to be adding to the fact that many creche owners are creaming it from parents.

Many creche owners don't own their premises are are subject to high rents/mortgages every month that need to be covered.
They also have standards & staffing ratios to adhere to that your local childminder does not.
The government have moved to regulate childminding & it's turned into a laughable mess, read this for an eye opener.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0704/1224250039773.html

The_Honeybadger

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Many creche owners don't own their premises are are subject to high rents/mortgages every month that need to be covered.
They also have standards & staffing ratios to adhere to that your local childminder does not.
The government have moved to regulate childminding & it's turned into a laughable mess, read this for an eye opener.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0704/1224250039773.html

+ 1. I am involved with running a community creche through my work, we own the building and it is still a real challenge to balance the books every month, you wouldn't believe the regulations about staffing ratios per child, paperwork involved etc. It's not as profitable as you might think, although in fairness our main goal is to provide a first class service on a break even basis so our fees are low, but don't think for a second that every creche that charges fees are creaming it, the overheads a creche has to contend with are enormous, particularly those that don't own their premises.

Sleepy

My sister worked in a creche for a couple of years and tbh, she was barely better off than she would have been on the dole. Overheads in the industry are massive, staffing levels are high and, while some creche owners make a decent living out of it, from what I've seen through my sister's experience of the industry, the better off the creche owner, the worse the standard of care. :eek:

gurramok

Get her sacked, divorce your wife, she claims Lone Parents allowance & Rent Supplement and you can live with her on the sly. With that 3rd kid, you're onto a winner

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66188084&postcount=337

sellerbarry

Why people have kids, just to hand them over to strangers all week long for a crazy amount of money was always beyond me. My wife has always looked after my son (not mary etc from xyz creche). She has worked part time jobs around his day, so that she could always be with him. Why bother having kids if you're not going to see them till 5.30-6.00pm each night? Selfish if you ask me. And don't give me all this (we have to both work to pay for mortgage/ 2 cars/creche etc.) Get a smaller house.
Thanks all;)

dan_d

Or maybe (from a woman's point of view) the woman would like a life too, and would prefer not to sit at home all day with the only company being someone who can't speak properly yet, cute and all though they are??

I note you don't include yourself in the minding of your son - just your wife. Nice of you.

Anyway, assuming you're trolling on this one. Work away. At the end of the day, these decisions are up to the individuals involved and nobody else.

bondjames

Rabidlamb wrote: »

No, but I am on good money so I never even thought of it.
Imagine taking money from the state, seems absurd.

If she was let go from her job and went looking for jobseekers would she not be mean tested because of you salary???

aatraities

Rabidlamb wrote: »

The system is rigged so that one of us are better off being made unemployed if we want a larger family.
Is there something wrong with my thinking or is my logic sound ?.

Why don't you just move to the states and start your own commune and get the lady pregnant with 15 of your little progeny, start a new branch Davidian cult so we have something entertaining to watch in the future?

Or you can just stop breeding until you can afford it.

K-9

If you borrowed over 6 times your salary, grand too:

People in mortgage arrears 'borrowed more than six times their salaries' | BreakingNews.ie

Rabidlamb

aatraities wrote: »

Why don't you just move to the states and start your own commune and get the lady pregnant with 15 of your little progeny, start a new branch Davidian cult so we have something entertaining to watch in the future?

Or you can just stop breeding until you can afford it.

I addressed this earlier, on page 2 I believe, I'm only speaking hypothetically here.
It's a loophole I noticed in the system that I'm bringing to peoples attention.

Rabidlamb

bondjames wrote: »

If she was let go from her job and went looking for jobseekers would she not be mean tested because of you salary???

According to my expert, Mick down the pub, she'll get €194 a week until the 12 months are up & only then are you means tested.