5 x 5 adding weight

BuyingorSelling

Just about to start on th e5 x 5 programme. Just wondering what weight i should start with, he says to start with empty bar. At the moment o can squat 65kg 5 x 5. Should i go from this point on? if so what weight should i add every session?

Similarity i can bench 60kg at moment should i drop that before starting.

Im 76kg 5-10

d'Oracle

The belgian says that you start with an empty bar so you can "learn the movements without a coach".

If you can already squat 65kg with proper form and you drop to 20kg because some charlatan says so, you will be wasting your time trying to get strong with weights that will not illicit any sort of response. IMO.

If you can get your work sets with 65, with good form then warm up and use that for your first work sets.

Apip99

Agree with d'Oracle. If you are already comfortably lifting with the weight you've mentioned (and with good form) I would say to carry on from there and to work increase by the 2.5kg each time.

Also note, on the dead lift only 1x5. common fault to do 5x5.

Money Shot

I don't think he is going to get too far by starting at this max 5 rep weight to be honest- he could fail next week on 67.5 or 70. I know I wouldn't if I started at my 5 rep max.

Would it not make more sense to cut 20%, feel the exercise, and start from there, allowing him to reach max weight in a couple of weeks and then go beyond it as far as he can for the first cycle. Even from a pure motivation point of view, it makes more sense to me to apply some kind of periodisation and progression.

d'Oracle

Money Shot wrote: »

I don't think he is going to get too far by starting at this max 5 rep weight to be honest- he could fail next week on 67.5 or 70. I know I wouldn't if I started at my 5 rep max.

Would it not make more sense to cut 20%, feel the exercise, and start from there, allowing him to reach max weight in a couple of weeks and then go beyond it as far as he can for the first cycle. Even from a pure motivation point of view, it makes more sense to me to apply some kind of periodisation and progression.

Who said it was his max?
If it was his 5RM he wouldn't be able to do it with good form for sets across.

Also he is looking at doing a novice linear progression. Which is by definition not a periodisation approach.

Money Shot

BuyingorSelling wrote: »

At the moment o can squat 65kg 5 x 5. Should i go from this point on? if so what weight should i add every session?

Similarity i can bench 60kg at moment should i drop that before starting.

Im 76kg 5-10

I took a leap of faith and substituted and I for the o, then I assumed (possibly wrongly), that when he says he can lift 65kg 5*5 that it's his best effort, othewise not sure of why he would mention it. Anyway, maybe the op can enlighten us.

If it is his max, would the same not apply i.e he wouldn't be progressing for very long if he started at or close to his max ?

d'Oracle

Money Shot wrote: »

I took a leap of faith and substituted and I for the o, then I assumed (possibly wrongly), that when he says he can lift 65kg 5*5 that it's his best effort, othewise not sure of why he would mention it. Anyway, maybe the op can enlighten us.

If it is his max, would the same not apply i.e he wouldn't be progressing for very long if he started at or close to his max ?

5x5 isn't a 5RM.
If he is a novice he lifts that, then eats then two days later he should be able for 67.5kg or so. And this will continue from session to session. There are people posting here who have put 40-50 kg on their squat using this method.

It is not a coincidence that people have had such success with programmes like Starting Strength and Stronglifts5x5.

BuyingorSelling

Cheers for the advice lads.

The 65kg is not my max just something i can do quite easily. I could complete 80 but would really take it out of me.

I will drop to 60 then go from there on the 2.5 gain each session

looking forward to getting stuck in to the programme

Money Shot

d'Oracle wrote: »

5x5 isn't a 5RM.
If he is a novice he lifts that, then eats then two days later he should be able for 67.5kg or so. And this will continue from session to session. There are people posting here who have put 40-50 kg on their squat using this method.

It is not a coincidence that people have had such success with programmes like Starting Strength and Stronglifts5x5.

The amount of pedantry on this board is nothing short of phenomenal. Every point is taken to the max, never an opportunity spurned to nit pick or flex the dIck -especially if responding to someone who aint considered 'local'.

I haven't done a novice programme for nearly two decades, so i'll bow to your superior knowledge on the subject. However, I was just making one small point - that I don't find any programme useful in terms of progression if you start at your max weight - nothing too controversial.
Maybe a novice will improve quicker, but it won't last too long before he hits a wall. For the love of god, don't respond - you win, you're right.

d'Oracle

Money Shot wrote: »

The amount of pedantry on this board is nothing short of phenomenal. Every point is taken to the max, never an opportunity spurned to nit pick or flex the dIck -especially if responding to someone who aint considered 'local'.

I haven't done a novice programme for nearly two decades, so i'll bow to your superior knowledge on the subject. However, I was just making one small point - that I don't find any programme useful in terms of progression if you start at your max weight - nothing too controversial.
Maybe a novice will improve quicker, but it won't last too long before he hits a wall. For the love of god, don't respond - you win, you're right.

Its not pedantry, its a very important distinction.
Nobody mentioned a max weight at any point.
If you can't discuss things like an adult rather than sulking over a simple point then maybe the internet isn't for you.

shootermacg

Apip99 wrote: »

Also note, on the dead lift only 1x5. common fault to do 5x5.

Why 1 set of 5 reps? Just asking.

kodute

d'Oracle wrote: »

If you can't discuss things like an adult rather than sulking over a simple point then maybe the internet isn't for you.

FYP Judging by the '3 meals or 6' thread.


Back OT, back off a little then go up each time. Its better than stalling early. Enjoy it!

d'Oracle

shootermacg wrote: »

Why 1 set of 5 reps? Just asking.

Due to the relative difficulty of deadlifting heavy.
Harder to recover from, so you do less volume.

shootermacg

d'Oracle wrote: »

Due to the relative difficulty of deadlifting heavy.
Harder to recover from, so you do less volume.

Cheers for the reply.

Money Shot

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its not pedantry, its a very important distinction.
Nobody mentioned a max weight at any point.
If you can't discuss things like an adult rather than sulking over a simple point then maybe the internet isn't for you.

I knew you wouldn't be able to leave it

You just proved my point. I have already explained that I had understood (wrongly) what he said to mean it was his max effort. There has now been a ream of completely useless, pointless posts because you took issue with something unimportant. The thread has been no more informed because you nit picked on something meaningless - you really should re read the thread and see how pathetic it is. This forum is full of them. I know how it will end, the big hitters will come in now and side with you and give me a damn good internet hiding :rolleyes:

This could go on all day - I have a brew and nothing better to do :rolleyes:

Apip99

shootermacg wrote: »

Why 1 set of 5 reps? Just asking.

I made the error of doing 5x5 on the DL, that was until someone pointed out to me that was the reason i couldn't walk or recover. And slow progress as well!

d'Oracle

Money Shot wrote: »

The thread has been no more informed because you nit picked on something meaningless - you really should re read the thread and see how pathetic it is.

I answered his question.
I also answered Shooters.

What have you contributed?
Apart from suggesting a novice should start a periodisation programme.

Also, big hitters?
What are you on about?

shootermacg

Apip99 wrote: »

I made the error of doing 5x5 on the DL, that was until someone pointed out to me that was the reason i couldn't walk or recover. And slow progress as well!

Saw a guy in the gym tonight doing 5 sets of 5 deadlifts and I was wondering if he was in the same boat lol, didn't want to come off as a know it all so I let him be ^ ^.