When will Kilkenny be beaten?

teednab-el

Seeming this is by far the greatest team ever to play hurling, It seems like they will never get beaten. Its going on a very long time now since start of championship 2006. A remarkable and unbelievable team with so much success, skill and talented players. They will almost certainly do the 5 in a row now, there is nothing there to stop them. I will almost put my bank account on it. The question is when will they finally fall? Will they do 10 in a row, 20 in a row. Opinions, thoughts,. IMO I cant see them beaten for a long long time. Its like the great Kerry team of the late 70's and 80's only better.

The closest any opposition have come to beating them.
Cork (2006)
Galway (2007) -until the last ten mins.
Nobody (2008) - destroyed every team.
Tipperary (2009) - Closest game the Cats came to be dethroned.

Ian_K

September.

Teclo

September 2012

derealbadger

im going with a repeat of 1998 when the biffos got well beaten by them in the Leinster and came back and humbled them in the AI final

we have them where we want them now

Ian_K

derealbadger wrote: »

im going with a repeat of 1998 when the biffos got well beaten by them in the Leinster and came back and humbled them in the AI final

we have them where we want them now

Exactly, i honestly dont believe Galway were interested in winning that game on sunday - you dont beat Kilkenny twice in one year and it's in september when it really counts

As i understand it the cats will probably face Tipp in the semi and wont meet Galway again untill the final. I'd give both a great chance of beating them this year.

I'm a Cork fan but i just dont see them (or waterford) going very far this year.

flahavaj

Anyone who thinks Galway were somehow "holding back" yesterday with an All Ireland final appearance in September in mind is seriously deluded. For a start its a pretty massive assumption for a team that hadn't played in Croker for three years prior to this to expect to win likely semi and quarter finals against the likes of Tipp and Cork.

Madness.

derealbadger

flahavaj wrote: »

Anyone who thinks Galway were somehow "holding back" yesterday with an All Ireland final appearance in September in mind is seriously deluded. For a start its a pretty massive assumption for a team that hadn't played in Croker for three years prior to this to expect to win likely semi and quarter finals against the likes of Tipp and Cork.

Madness.

so in your opinion Galway played as well as they are capable yesterday and they have no room for improvement ?

PaulKK

flahavaj wrote: »

Anyone who thinks Galway were somehow "holding back" yesterday with an All Ireland final appearance in September in mind is seriously deluded. For a start its a pretty massive assumption for a team that hadn't played in Croker for three years prior to this to expect to win likely semi and quarter finals against the likes of Tipp and Cork.

Madness.

QFT.

To say any team goes to Croke park without the intention of winning is ludicrous, to say it when the prize is an All Ireland semi final place is even more ludicrous.

derealbadger wrote: »

so in your opinion Galway played as well as they are capable yesterday and they have no room for improvement ?

They may be able to play better, but yesterday they played as well as they were allowed to play.

flahavaj

derealbadger wrote: »

so in your opinion Galway played as well as they are capable yesterday and they have no room for improvement ?

They were well below par, but mainly that ws down to KK murdering them in pretty much every position on the field.

Theres a massive difference between playing badly and keeping something in reserve in the forlorn hope you mught get a second crack at KK in the All Ireland. The sheer arrogance of the notion alone is laughable, especially for a team that has disappointed for years and hasn't even more than ahandful of games played at Croke park in the last few years. The more I think about it the stupider it sounds tbh.

Submara

No team is infallible and this has been proven in many team sports. Kilkenny have been very successful over the last 12 years and nobody can deny this but they are beatable. At the moment, it looks likely that they will cruise to a 'five in a row'. However, Kilkenny should pay heed to what happened the great Kerry team in 1982 when they were in the same situation.

Is there an 'Offaly' and a 'Seamus Darby' waiting in the long grass for Kilkenny? Nobody knows but it could happen as history usually repeats itself in the most unusual fashion.

Galway do have the firepower to catch Kilkenny on an 'off day' but can they resurrect themselves in the quarter final and get to final to do an 'Offaly 82' on Kilkenny. The optimist in me says yes but the realist says no.

grenache

They will be beaten whenever Tipp decide to get their act together.....hopefully it will be this year as we all love party poopers.

Lex Luthor

They said the same about Cork in 2005. They will be beaten this year in the semi's.

Annuv

I think kilkenny at the moment are the best team in the country but no way are they unbeatable

All is takes is an off day for Kilkenny, a bad day in front of the posts for example or a spate of injuries or an early sending off, or just even one of the other teams hitting great form, for Kilkenny to be beaten. Anything can happen on the day

Kilenny are being built up too much again. The performance on Sunday was far from perfect. While the wides were understandable given the conditions, the fact that our half forward line went missing for twenty minutes of the second half is a worry, not to mention the concession of a very soft goal.

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

They were well below par, but mainly that ws down to KK murdering them in pretty much every position on the field.

Theres a massive difference between playing badly and keeping something in reserve in the forlorn hope you mught get a second crack at KK in the All Ireland. The sheer arrogance of the notion alone is laughable, especially for a team that has disappointed for years and hasn't even more than ahandful of games played at Croke park in the last few years. The more I think about it the stupider it sounds tbh.

Playing three weeks in a row especially with a number of players carrying injuries did not help Galway either, I'm not using it as an excuse but the players looked tired in the second half.

Badabing

I can't see KK being beaten this year, just look at the bench Cha,Lyng Brennan or Comerford Tennyson Mick Kavangh etc.. Noel Hickey is getting back to his best Tommy Walsh maybe greatest of all time Jackie Tyrell playing great. Cody is ruthless and wont let them complacent one bit.

Pride Fighter

Rudy Better Shoemaker wrote: »

Playing three weeks in a row especially with a number of players carrying injuries did not help Galway either, I'm not using it as an excuse but the players looked tired in the second half.

Wasn't the point of moving them to Leinster to make sure they got that. That they did not start their all Ireland campaign in July.

Diabhal Beag

flahavaj wrote: »

They were well below par, but mainly that ws down to KK murdering them in pretty much every position on the field.

Theres a massive difference between playing badly and keeping something in reserve in the forlorn hope you mught get a second crack at KK in the All Ireland. The sheer arrogance of the notion alone is laughable, especially for a team that has disappointed for years and hasn't even more than ahandful of games played at Croke park in the last few years. The more I think about it the stupider it sounds tbh.

I agree we weren't playing with the AI in the back of our minds. We are a good team capable of beating Tipp and to a lesser extent Cork (can see Aisake improving already). Fatigue was a huge part of our poor performance as was the lack of self-confidence after the Offaly matches. That can be recovered before the QF.
KK won't be stopped this year but the notion that Galway can't beat Tipp or Cork is crazy. It is a possible 4 horse race to be in the Final. Waterford should not be over-looked.

Ash.J.Williams

KK will be beaten when another team masters the basic skills of hurling.

flahavaj

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

I agree we weren't playing with the AI in the back of our minds. We are a good team capable of beating Tipp and to a lesser extent Cork (can see Aisake improving already). Fatigue was a huge part of our poor performance as was the lack of self-confidence after the Offaly matches. That can be recovered before the QF.
KK won't be stopped this year but the notion that Galway can't beat Tipp or Cork is crazy. It is a possible 4 horse race to be in the Final. Waterford should not be over-looked.

I agree galway are eminently capable of beating Cork or Tip on their day. i just fiond the assumption that they will definitely beat them and have a second crack at KK to be preposterous. Surely the last decade of limited or no success has taught people that wins against these counties are never easy to come by.

I'm not writing of Galway btw, I just find the idea that galway were "holding back" the other day, happy in the konowledge that they'd be playing KK in the AllIreland again to be ridiculous in the extreme on so many levels.

Pride Fighter

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Wasn't the point of moving them to Leinster to make sure they got that. That they did not start their all Ireland campaign in July.

It was and they definitely needed to get playing earlier in the year but thats not to say they wanted to be playing 3 weeks on the trot either especially when they have had injury's which a week off before the KK game could have helped.

It is of course their own fault that they didn't get the week off as they couldn't beat Offaly the first day.

Diabhal Beag

flahavaj wrote: »

I agree galway are eminently capable of beating Cork or Tip on their day. i just fiond the assumption that they will definitely beat them and have a second crack at KK to be preposterous. Surely the last decade of limited or no success has taught people that wins against these counties are never easy to come by.

I'm not writing of Galway btw, I just find the idea that galway were "holding back" the other day, happy in the konowledge that they'd be playing KK in the AllIreland again to be ridiculous in the extreme on so many levels.

Believe me that I know Galway are far from definite capable of beating Tipp or Cork. We are all fairy equal ATM with clear problems. It does annoy me that Tipp are put ahead of Galway in contention according to many pundits. We played badly against Killkenny but Tipp were destroyed by Cork. Cork are now rightfully favourites to face KK in the Final but for people to put Tipp not just ahead of Galway but some put Waterford ahead of Galway which is stupid.

Ian_K

Look its not nice to hear but the provincial championships arent worth a fcuk anymore in football or hurling.

Cork beat Tipp because they were really up for it and Tipp weren't. IMO Tipp are still a better team. If Galway were really up for it on Sunday they would have pushed Kilkenny much closer - they were on top for the first 20 minutes and then seemed to ease up a bit. Look a Joe Canning's second half performance and tell me he really wanted to win that game. What does a Leinster title mean to Galway anyway?

Kilkenny are still the best team around but Galway and Tipp haven't hurled yet this year. The AI is all that matters

Psychedelic

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

but some put Waterford ahead of Galway which is stupid.

Why is it stupid? Waterford beat Galway in last year's Championship and have been the better team throughout this decade so to be honest I don't know how Galway are being ranked higher than Waterford. If people are going on league form then what about Kilkenny losing 3 games, Waterford drew against Cork and Tipp, Dublin hammered Tipp....

My opinion is that there is Kilkenny and well below them are Cork/Galway/Tipp/Waterford who are all capable of beating each other on any given day.

Diabhal Beag

If Waterford beat Cork then I'd agree but if they don't I can't see how Waterford can be justified as favourites. You have a good team but going by recent form you lost convincingly to Killkenny in last year's AI Semis. Form goes out the window in the Championship. The Munster Final will tell us a lot about the contenders to Killkenny's throne.

flahavaj

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

If Waterford beat Cork then I'd agree but if they don't I can't see how Waterford can be justified as favourites. You have a good team but going by recent form you lost convincingly to Killkenny in last year's AI Semis. Form goes out the window in the Championship. The Munster Final will tell us a lot about the contenders to Killkenny's throne.

What have Galway done to justify being ahead of Tipp, Cork or even Waterford?

Didn't play one game in Croker the three years before this season.

Mediocre against Wexford.

Needed 140 minutes of hurling to sneak past Offaly.

Comprehensively dissected by Kilkenny on Sunday.

This constant overrating of Galway (mainly by their won supporters) is beginning to grate on my nerves to be honest. They've done f*ck all to justify it, bar a decent league campaign.

derealbadger

flahavaj wrote: »

What have Galway done to justify being ahead of Tipp, Cork or even Waterford?

Didn't play one game in Croker the three years before this season.

Mediocre against Wexford.

Needed 140 minutes of hurling to sneak past Offaly.

Comprehensively dissected by Kilkenny on Sunday.

This constant overrating of Galway (mainly by their won supporters) is beginning to grate on my nerves to be honest. They've done f*ck all to justify it, bar a decent league campaign.

what have tipp or waterford done to put them ahead of Galway

flahavaj

derealbadger wrote: »

what have tipp or waterford done to put them ahead of Galway

Well Tipp came within a whisker of making this thread totwlly needless only a few short months ago. One bad day out against Cork does not suddenly make them a bunch of no hopers. They're a formidable panel. In the past few years they have championship wins over Waterford and Cork.

Waterford have been playing at a high level for the past decade or more. Their championship pedigree is undeniable they have wins in the championship over Cork Tipp and Galway in the past three years. They are seasoned championship hurlers who knwo what it takes to win Munster titles and how to close out tight championship matches against quality opposition.

Both sides have a proven chamoionship pedigree in recent years. Look at the teams they have beaten in recent years and then look at Galways record in the same period of time. There is no comparison whatsoever. Galway have beaten no one you would call a serious All Ireland contender in recent years. They have literally no pedigree of performing in Croke Park. They bottled it last year when they were in sight of what would have been a breakthrough victory over the Deise in Thurles. The year before they couldn't beat a 14 man Cork team that was about to rebel against a incompetent manager who had destroyed their training regimen and morale. The ony forward that bothered to show up was Canning.

Galway have done nothing, NOTHING in championship hurling in recent years to suggest the likes of Cork, Tipp or Waterford should or do have any fear of them whatsoever. Until they begin to beat the likes of these teams on a consistent basis that will remain the case tbh.

Diabhal Beag

flahavaj wrote: »

What have Galway done to justify being ahead of Tipp, Cork or even Waterford?

Didn't play one game in Croker the three years before this season.

Mediocre against Wexford.

Needed 140 minutes of hurling to sneak past Offaly.

Comprehensively dissected by Kilkenny on Sunday.

This constant overrating of Galway (mainly by their won supporters) is beginning to grate on my nerves to be honest. They've done f*ck all to justify it, bar a decent league campaign.

We started off the year well. I know that a lot of people think the League means nothing but that is ignorant. It may not be up to the importance of a Provincial Final but it is still important. It shows that we can win titles. That is how everybody started to hype up Galway.

riflehunter77

If the question had been, Who do you think will beat Kilkenny ?
Id say kilkenny themselves we gave away a stupid goal on sunday did not look comfortable when a few balls landed in the box seemed very nervous at times. Had 17 wides this will have to be worked on over the coming weeks. If this happens in the semi there is no reason why kilkenny should not be beaten but I hope not.

flahavaj

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

We started off the year well. I know that a lot of people think the League means nothing but that is ignorant. It may not be up to the importance of a Provincial Final but it is still important. It shows that we can win titles. That is how everybody started to hype up Galway.

I think the league is important for counties like Galway, Dublin, Offaly et al who are trying to make the step up. The likes Kilkenny and Tipp can afford to experiment a little and try a few new things. Even Waterford this year didn't go at it anything like full pelt and all their senior players were rested for the entire campaign, they were quite hay simply to preserve their Division 1 Status without going all out to win the thing.

Theres no doubting the importamnce of winning the league for Galway but its also ill advised in the extreme to read TOO much into it whan other counties are going at it far from full tilt. Take the league final for example, after I saw that I was seriously doubtful of Corks ability to contend this season. Fast forward a couple of weeks to the Munster Championship and it was obvious they were more than playing withing themselves and didn't want to give too much away in the laegue final.

Diabhal Beag

flahavaj wrote: »

I think the league is important for counties like Galway, Dublin, Offaly et al who are trying to make the step up. The likes Kilkenny and Tipp can afford to experiment a little and try a few new things. Even Waterford this year didn't go at it anything like full pelt and all their senior players were rested for the entire campaign, they were quite hay simply to preserve their Division 1 Status without going all out to win the thing.

Theres no doubting the importamnce of winning the league for Galway but its also ill advised in the extreme to read TOO much into it whan other counties are going at it far from full tilt. Take the league final for example, after I saw that I was seriously doubtful of Corks ability to contend this season. Fast forward a couple of weeks to the Munster Championship and it was obvious they were more than playing withing themselves and didn't want to give too much away in the laegue final.

My point was that the League doesn't mean nothing. It was an important confidence booster that we can look back on to seek inspiration from (we should be doing that now)

Coogee

In the goal challenge match 3 days after the 5 in a row:)

cremeegg

its possible then will do 7 or 8 in a row... how boring would that be

starlit

this could be their year! looks like waterford is in the running!

soccymonster

I honestly don't think Kilkenny will be beaten this year.
Cody is continuosely oiling that machine of a team.
Not afraid to bring in new young players and allowing them to gain experience and play along side numerous all star hurlers (Henry Shefflin, Tommy Walsh) while backed up with alot of the best intercounty players in the country.

Don't personally think looking at the inconsistency and just plain quality of some teams that KK will be defeated this year.
But anything can happen on a given day.

flahavaj

snuggles285 wrote: »

this could be their year! looks like waterford is in the running!

TBH, much as I was delighted with Waterford's win last night, I don't think Cody would have seen anything there to give him many sleepless nights. We would have to get far more forwards scoring to have any chance of beating them and KK's forwards in a way will pose a far greater threat to Lawlor and the other full backs than Aisake etc. Not to mention the amount of balls from both sides that went aimlessly out over the touchline.

wavinpipe

There is only one team in the country that can beat Kilkenny and thats themselves !!
End of.......

teednab-el

The KK team would have to be kidnapped in order for any other county to beat them.

adrian522

Lads, I honetly think think Kilkenny could well be beaten this year. People ar e looking at tthe scorelines and thinking they must have been brilliant but I think they'bve been pretty poor this year so far, hiting close to 20 wides per match, a lot of the forwards off form (Larkin, Brennan,Comerford). In fact its just the solid back line thats been getting them over games.

The performances i Leinster wont be good enough to beat Cork, nevermind waterford or Tipp in an all ireland final.

I actually think when Kilkenny are beaten(be it this year or next) they may be in for a period of rebuilding. If or when the likes of Shefflin, Breennan, Comerford, Kavanagh, Hickey, Lyng all retire who is coming in to replace them. People talk about a conveyor belt of talent but I just don't see it. Theres not many teams that could replace those teams and Kilekknny are no different,

I saw an interesting stat recently in that ilkenny have blooded the least amount of players in the Championship of any of the top sides over the last four years.

This would indicate that while they have a greeat team now once the some of the big names start to retire the onus will be on the likes of Power, the Reids, Fitzpatrick and Hogan to step up and be the leaders. Doesn't seem like the dominance will continue forever at all.

Kilkenny Championship Debutantes:
2010 - John Mulhall
2009 - Sean Cummins
2008 - Richie Hogan, TJ Reid
2007 - John Dalton, PJ Ryan, Eoin Reid

JimsAlterEgo

adrian522 wrote: »

Lads, I honetly think think Kilkenny could well be beaten this year. People ar e looking at tthe scorelines and thinking they must have been brilliant but I think they'bve been pretty poor this year so far, hiting close to 20 wides per match, a lot of the forwards off form (Larkin, Brennan,Comerford). In fact its just the solid back line thats been getting them over games.

The performances i Leinster wont be good enough to beat Cork, nevermind waterford or Tipp in an all ireland final.

I actually think when Kilkenny are beaten(be it this year or next) they may be in for a period of rebuilding. If or when the likes of Shefflin, Breennan, Comerford, Kavanagh, Hickey, Lyng all retire who is coming in to replace them. People talk about a conveyor belt of talent but I just don't see it. Theres not many teams that could replace those teams and Kilekknny are no different,

I saw an interesting stat recently in that ilkenny have blooded the least amount of players in the Championship of any of the top sides over the last four years.

This would indicate that while they have a greeat team now once the some of the big names start to retire the onus will be on the likes of Power, the Reids, Fitzpatrick and Hogan to step up and be the leaders. Doesn't seem like the dominance will continue forever at all.

Kilkenny Championship Debutantes:
2010 - John Mulhall
2009 - Sean Cummins
2008 - Richie Hogan, TJ Reid
2007 - John Dalton, PJ Ryan, Eoin Reid

people were saying the same the last 4 years,

KK are constanly rebuilding, that why Cody brings thru a few players every year - look at the subs bench - most players there would make the Allstars let alone another county team

as for the wides, IMO this is what other teams have to fear - if they start scoring these then what would the scores have been?

Its well known that KK sacrificed the team peaking in Aug/Sept. Drom what I have seen this year I don't expect any team to get within 6 points of them this year.

adrian522

I don't know, this year is errily reminiscient of 2004 when Kilkenny were not playing well and struggling for scores, hitting a lot of wides and everyone said "well at least theyre creating the chances", "theyre class players they'll prerform when it matters", "theyre only aiming to peak in September", What happened? Bet out the gate by a hunrier Cork team.

Why haven't Kilkenny been able to perform well in the league and championship games so far unlike in the last 4 years?

Speak Now

adrian522 wrote: »

I don't know, this year is errily reminiscient of 2004 when Kilkenny were not playing well and struggling for scores, hitting a lot of wides and everyone said "well at least theyre creating the chances", "theyre class players they'll prerform when it matters", "theyre only aiming to peak in September", What happened? Bet out the gate by a hunrier Cork team.

Why haven't Kilkenny been able to perform well in the league and championship games so far unlike in the last 4 years?

2004 was poor all the way from Kilkenny.

Beaten in leinster by Wexford.

Needed a replay to get by Clare.

Goals got them past Waterford, think they only scored 12 pts :eek:

Writing was long on the wall before the final that year.

Downfall wouldn't be so obvious this year.

But everyteam is beaten someday and they will have been hot favs the day it happens.

This is a golden era even by Kilkenny standards and all probably driven by the 4 years in the mid 90's when they were only third best in Leinster.

hardybuck

I honestly think they will be beaten whenever Henry Shefflin either retires or gets a bad injury. His contribution alone is enough to get them through tight games.

As has been mentioned, the talent coming through isn't to the same quality of what has come in years before. They are getting beaten by the likes of Dublin in minor and U21 now recently, and the likes of St Kieran's dominance has been demolished since they've stopped taking borders.

run_Forrest_run

perhaps this man can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmt7xzGmi5A

up the Cats!

hardybuck

Galvin is widely regarded as a decent club hurler. A teacher, who is banned from playing football, the amount of hours this guy would have to kill would be unreal.

He'd want to stop wearing his sister's jeans.

deisedevil

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

as for the wides, IMO this is what other teams have to fear - if they start scoring these then what would the scores have been?

All you have to do is look at 2008 AI against Waterford. Wasn't it just before half time they had their first wide, everything was going over for them.

munsterrugby09

im not taking from the fact that i think this kilkenny team deserve their five in a row but i have a gut feeling that galway are going to win it,they have not played well so far but i thin sunday will make them as a team.

Diabhal Beag

hardybuck wrote: »

Galvin is widely regarded as a decent club hurler. A teacher, who is banned from playing football, the amount of hours this guy would have to kill would be unreal.

He'd want to stop wearing his sister's jeans.

No place for them stylish fellas in the GAA. Babs Keating doesn't wear Gucci :pac:

hardybuck

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

No place for them stylish fellas in the GAA. Babs Keating doesn't wear Gucci :pac:

Babs Keating didn't wear boots either...

deisedevil

munsterrugby09 wrote: »

im not taking from the fact that i think this kilkenny team deserve their five in a row but i have a gut feeling that galway are going to win it,they have not played well so far but i thin sunday will make them as a team.

Would ya have a few euro on that? Maybe a few grand like?

Joyce Country

munsterrugby09 wrote: »

im not taking from the fact that i think this kilkenny team deserve their five in a row but i have a gut feeling that galway are going to win it,they have not played well so far but i thin sunday will make them as a team.

as a galway man i've had enough ''gut feelings that we'll do something this year'' to last a lifetime. zero expectations for sunday, hoping to be pleasantly surprised!