Rail incident at Portarlington?

foggy_lad

does anyone know what happened at Portarlington earlier?

http://twitter.com/IrishRail

Delays to Cork, Kerry and Limerick services this morning, due to an incident at Portarlington about 9 hours ago via UberTwitter

and i see a couple of lines closed due to fallen trees despite irish rails policy of decimating any ditches beside the railway even at times of the year when everyone else is prohibited from cutting back trees and ditches

445279.ie

Man hit and killed by train at Mountrath. All Cork, Kerry and Limerick trains suspended.

Just on rte news

DWCommuter

Details here

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0704/train.html

expectationlost

they said on the news people have been stuck outside stations for severals hours? several hours(i hate that word so vague), i know its awkward but like planes now have limit to the amount of time they can trap you on them should it not be the same with trains, walk them off and get them a bus...

foggy_lad

A tragic incident.

Does anyone know what the incident at portarlington earlier was?

expectationlost

well i look around tiwtter etc, 1 person saying they stuck for over an hour on train

KC61

expectationlost wrote: »

well i look around tiwtter etc, 1 person saying they stuck for over an hour on train

Presumably the trains were stuck between stations until the incident was cleared.

Allowing people to walk along a working "live" railway line is a big no-no. Unfortunately there really is nothing that could be done in those circumstances until the line was cleared again.

godtabh

KC61 wrote: »

Presumably the trains were stuck between stations until the incident was cleared.

Allowing people to walk along a working "live" railway line is a big no-no. Unfortunately there really is nothing that could be done in those circumstances until the line was cleared again.

reverse?

Irishoz

My understanding is that a man in his 20's took his own life. Very tragic.

expectationlost

KC61 wrote: »

Presumably the trains were stuck between stations until the incident was cleared.

Allowing people to walk along a working "live" railway line is a big no-no. Unfortunately there really is nothing that could be done in those circumstances until the line was cleared again.

well you'll hear transport cos, talk about the being sorry for discomfort but being stuck in confined areas with supplies becomes more then discomfort after a few hours.


anyway rte report was wildly inaccurate it seems

KC61

expectationlost wrote: »

well you'll hear transport cos, talk about the being sorry for discomfort but being stuck in confined areas with supplies becomes more then disconfort after a few hours.


anyway rte report was wildly inaccurate it seems

Well if passengers were then hit by another train on the other track I think that there would be far more complaints.

At the end of the the day safety is the key factor here and having anyone walking on a railway line that is still live (i.e. it is possible that trains could still be moving on it) is out of the question.

KC61

godtabh wrote: »

reverse?

It's not as easy as that.

There are very detailed safety rules governing "wrong line working" where the individual tracks are not signalled for two way working. It requires additional staff members (pilotmen) to be on board, and very strict procedures to be followed which are restrictive in terms of speeds and the numbers of trains moving at any one time.

In this case all of that would probably have taken longer than it did to actually resolve the situation.

Cookie_Monster

So does a train just stop whenever the radio call goes out that there has been an incident at x, or will it continue to a certain point, ie the next set of lights or station if there is an intermediate one?

For an accident that is going to take numerous hours to clear can they not organise by radio to stack the trains as close as possible the nearest station. In this case Portarlington?

T Corolla

I think alot of people could survive sitting on a train for a number of hours
Two people met a bad death yesterday and two drivers are in a bad way today because of these accidents.

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So does a train just stop whenever the radio call goes out that there has been an incident at x, or will it continue to a certain point, ie the next set of lights or station if there is an intermediate one?

For an accident that is going to take numerous hours to clear can they not organise by radio to stack the trains as close as possible the nearest station. In this case Portarlington?

No - the trains are governed by the signals. They would be stopped at the next available signal.

Stacking in individual sections is not permitted.

If it became clear that it was going to take hours as such to clear the line, then obviously pilotworking would be implemented, but as I explained above that is a slow and laborious process unfortunately.

Hungerford

Irishoz wrote: »

My understanding is that a man in his 20's took his own life. Very tragic.

There was another fatality on the line earlier that day too.

expectationlost

KC61 wrote: »

Well if passengers were then hit by another train on the other track I think that there would be far more complaints.

At the end of the the day safety is the key factor here and having anyone walking on a railway line that is still live (i.e. it is possible that trains could still be moving on it) is out of the question.

there wer no trains moving that was the point

KC61

expectationlost wrote: »

there wer no trains moving that was the point

Irrespective of that - how do you know that a train could not be let down the other track?

The fact remains that the railway was not closed under an engineer's possession. The trains were all stopped at red signals.

As such the rules totally forbid anyone walking along tracks.

The procedures that I outlined above would have to be followed.

T Corolla

Irishoz wrote: »

My understanding is that a man in his 20's took his own life. Very tragic.

This was the tradegy that occured in Mountrath with the 18:00 ex Hueston to Cork The incident in Portarlington invovled a older gentleman who was struck by a maintenance train at 7:45am. My thought are with both the families and the drivers of the trains hopefully the drivers will make a speedy recovery

Ham'nd'egger

A friend of mine was on the 10:00 train to Cork and was one of those held up. The explanation they were told on the train by staff was that the Gardaí held up any train movement until they had conducted a search at the accident zone.

Under such circumstances it's irrelevant how easy or hard it is to keep amused on a train for a hold up when a man's death is being investigated and dealt with. Posters here should remember that two drivers are in shock after this while two families are in mourning and this ought to put any delay into context.

shamwari

Hamndegger wrote: »

Under such circumstances it's irrelevant how easy or hard it is to keep amused on a train for a hold up when a man's death is being investigated and dealt with. Posters here should remember that two drivers are in shock after this while two families are in mourning and this ought to put any delay into context.

Quite correct. Apart from all of the horror and heartbreak that goes with tragic events like this, it is very hard for the train drivers and the emergency services involved.

The Gardai are quite correct to close everything down because when they initally arrive at something like this, they have to treat it as a crime scene till such time as they determine it to be otherwise. The events of yesterday make particularly sad reading and I feel for the families of those two men.

Pineapple stu

I suppose this incident is the main answer to a previous thread about trespassing on the lines. DONT DO IT .

center15

I actually know the driver of the train Dublin to Cork. Haven't spoken to him yet though. I hope he's okay though i can't imagine how hard it is. What is going on isn't this the 5th death by rail in a month ? or 4th in 2 weeks?

markpb

shamwari wrote: »

The Gardai are quite correct to close everything down because when they initally arrive at something like this, they have to treat it as a crime scene till such time as they determine it to be otherwise.

To put this in comparison:

An African-American man believed to be in his 30s stepped in front of a southbound train and died at the scene. LASD and Pasadena Police are investigating. [...] Trains were single-tracking around the site of the incident until shortly before 8 a.m. when normal service resumed.

The Source

A man was killed Monday evening when he jumped from a Metro station mezzanine onto the rail tracks. [...] The transit agency then needed to shut down power to that section of tracks for safety, she said, which in turn eliminated electricity to a train coming through the station. That shut off the air conditioning inside the train. [...] Metro had to close the station and turn back other trains, later reopening to allow trains to share a single track.

Washington Examiner

On-track incidents are horrible for everyone involved but other places take public transport seriously and don't shut down the entire line for 9 hours unless it's absolutely necessary.

Ham'nd'egger

markpb wrote: »

To put this in comparison:

The Source

Washington Examiner

On-track incidents are horrible for everyone involved but other places take public transport seriously and don't shut down the entire line for 9 hours unless it's absolutely necessary.

How do you know if a body wasn't blocking both lines?

Run_to_da_hills

markpb wrote: »

On-track incidents are horrible for everyone involved but other places take public transport seriously and don't shut down the entire line for 9 hours unless it's absolutely necessary.

It would also depend on the location. as with any fatal RTA the tracks also have to be sealed off and treated as a crime sceen, specialist Garda forenzics must be called in from Dublin to examine the area, question witnesses, take notes, collect evidence and chalk the area This alone takes several hours and unfortunitally there is no quick way out of it.

For health and safety reasons I would imagine both lines would have to be shut down during any forenzic examination on the tracks also the last thing Iarnrod Eireann would want their passengers to see would be the aftermath of an incident.

lord lucan

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

For health and safety reasons I would imagine both lines would have to be shut down during any forenzic examination on the tracks also the last thing Iarnrod Eireann would want their passengers to see would be the aftermath of an incident.

Plus you'd end up with more injuries as passengers clamber all over seats to take pics of the scene with their phones and take video that they can upload to YouTube!:rolleyes:

grenache

The incident at Mountrath received coverage on the news, but the Portarlington accident didn't even get a mention. A few of my friends were travelling down to Killarney for the Munster Football Final. They very well nearly missed it. Though I know its not much to be complaining about when a man has lost his life in such tragic circumstances.

markpb

Hamndegger wrote: »

How do you know if a body wasn't blocking both lines?

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It would also depend on the location. as with any fatal RTA the tracks also have to be sealed off and treated as a crime sceen, specialist Garda forenzics must be called in from Dublin to examine the area, question witnesses, take notes, collect evidence and chalk the area This alone takes several hours and unfortunitally there is no quick way out of it.

I'm not making any comment about this specific incident - I'm just pointing out that other cities/countries manage to keep a rail system operating, even after a serious incident on the tracks. Here's another one from yesterday, albeit less serious than the other two I posted:

A Metro Blue Line train and city of Long Beach police vehicle collided in Long Beach about 1 p.m. on Wednesday afternoon, sending a police officer to the hospital with unspecified but non-life threatening injures, according to Metro officials and several media reports. Eight passengers on the Blue Line train also had soft-tissue injuries and were transported to the hospital, according to Metro. [...] Blue Line trains are single-tracking around the scene of the incident

I don't think anyone can argue that nine injuries requiring hospitalisation including that of a police officer would be treated as a minor collision and yet they didn't feel the need to shut down the line.

KC61

markpb wrote: »

I'm not making any comment about this specific incident - I'm just pointing out that other cities/countries manage to keep a rail system operating, even after a serious incident on the tracks. Here's another one from yesterday, albeit less serious than the other two I posted:



I don't think anyone can argue that nine injuries requiring hospitalisation including that of a police officer would be treated as a minor collision and yet they didn't feel the need to shut down the line.

To be fair thankfully these incidents do not happen that much in Ireland, but when they do they are handled professionally. The railway line is generally reopened reasonably quickly but it will depend on the circumstances.

As for implementing single track working - that would entirely depend on the signalling arrangements. In the examples you quoted both lines could be signalled for bi-directional working, thereby permitting operations to continue. In Ireland much of the Dublin-Cork line and indeed other double track sections is not signalled for bi-directional working, and therefore would require pilotmen and all of the necessary safety procedures to be implemented, which would take time to organise.

Personally I would think that closing the line until the remains have been removed and the line cleared for operations is probably the appropriate action.

Ham'nd'egger

markpb wrote: »

I'm not making any comment about this specific incident - I'm just pointing out that other cities/countries manage to keep a rail system operating, even after a serious incident on the tracks. Here's another one from yesterday, albeit less serious than the other two I posted:

I don't think anyone can argue that nine injuries requiring hospitalisation including that of a police officer would be treated as a minor collision and yet they didn't feel the need to shut down the line.

No but you are assuming that it could easy be done without knowing anything about either location or nature of incidents. If Gardaí wanted the scene secured for their examinations they secured it until they are done and that is that, operational matters and delays just don't come into it.

Don't forget, many metro systems have single tunnels which would allow the other line to operate reasonably unhindered in the cases you referred to.

markpb

KC61 wrote: »

Personally I would think that closing the line until the remains have been removed and the line cleared for operations is probably the appropriate action.

I understand it's not black and white but if you're stuck on a train for several hours or if all trains on the line are suspended for 9 hours, you probably wouldn't think it was an acceptable response, especially if there's an alternative available but isn't being used.

Hamndegger wrote: »

Don't forget, many metro systems have single tunnels which would allow the other line to operate reasonably unhindered in the cases you referred to.

Two of the three examples I've provided are surface tracks.

Run_to_da_hills

Hamndegger wrote: »

Don't forget, many metro systems have single tunnels which would allow the other line to operate reasonably unhindered in the cases you referred to.

Probably one of the reasons that bidirectional tunnels will not be permitted on any of the Dublin metros.

KC61

markpb wrote: »

I understand it's not black and white but if you're stuck on a train for several hours or if all trains on the line are suspended for 9 hours, you probably wouldn't think it was an acceptable response, especially if there's an alternative available but isn't being used.

Where are you getting nine hours from?

The line was closed for two separate incidents at different locations, but neither lasted nine hours.

Ham'nd'egger

markpb wrote: »

I understand it's not black and white but if you're stuck on a train for several hours or if all trains on the line are suspended for 9 hours, you probably wouldn't think it was an acceptable response, especially if there's an alternative available but isn't being used.

But you are neglecting a small fact here; that being that the Gardaí closed the line.

markpb wrote: »

Two of the three examples I've provided are surface tracks.

I don't know those lines at all (And I doubt if you know them well but I will go on your call here) but if both lines were blocked they'd both be closed.

dowlingm

Obviously response time by the guards is going to be different in an urban area compared to rural. Over here (Toronto) an incident of that nature involves power off (and therefore service) both ways for at least an hour, presumably for the safety of the investigators.