oral sex

LegacyUser

dont know if this is the right place to post this but i need other peoples opinions...
i recently started going out with a girl (23) i am 27. the problem is when we are making love. she expects to recieve oral pleasure from me but wont return the favour.. now if she said she didnt do it from the start i would be fine but she let me too believe that she did eg when we were having a few flirty txts etc...
is it wrong of me to think she should not of had let me think that she did or am i thinking way to much about it...

trebor28

im no expert but i wouldnt be reading too much into those texts, were you 100% honest in yours?

as regards her expecting oral but not giving...... some girls might not want to receive so they wont have to give it, but expecting it and not returning the favour is just greedy and mean.

Ickle Magoo

Have you spoken about it? Has she categorically stated she will not do oral?

LegacyUser

Well surely you didn't base your decision to go out with her on whether she gave head or not?! so i don't think what she may have implied in a text is really something to get annoyed over..

she expects to recieve oral pleasure from me but wont return the favour..

this however is just plain selfish and is what you should be annoyed over! its one thing to not like giving oral, but its another to expect it and not return the favour..I'd definitely stop going down on her if this is her attitude, might wake her up a bit...

fungun

you hardly come out and say 'oh and by the way i dont do oral' so i think in that way u are reading a bit too much into it, but if someone expects it id expect them to give it too.

but you say "now if she said she didnt do it from the start i would be fine" so im not sure which is the problem

tenchi-fan

She should return the favour! Fair's fair. Wait until next time she gives a hint she wants you to go downtown, and they tell her it's her turn first.

Dudess

You can't make her do something she doesn't want to do, and that includes withholding giving her head as a way of coercing her into giving you head. It's not gonna be great for you anyway if she's doing it only because she feels she has to, and isn't enjoying it. If you like giving her head, it would be petty of you to stop - sex isn't a game of tit (sorry) for tat.

At the same time though, it's something that should be addressed: can you talk to her about it? Can you ask what her issue is?

Canluum

When it comes to sex issues I'll usually defer to Dan Savage's liberalised no holds barred, good giving and game philosophy. I did a search and found one of his recent columns was on this very topic, but with genders reversed. I've changed the genders and adapted his words to fit your problem:

"Unless there’s something very seriously wrong with your penis' appearance — a web of scars from a circumcision gone horribly, horribly wrong; a swastika tattooed on your foreskin; the glowering face of a parasitic twin where your bell-end should be — your girlfriend is gay, OP.
DTMFA."

You're not getting what you need from the relationship or you wouldn't be on here. Now it might be down to a lack of communication, or maybe she's just nervous due to a previous experience (or lack of!). Suggest it in a subtle off-hand, positive re-inforcement kind of way, eg in the heat of the moment when you're mumbling dirty to each other say something like "mmm I'd love to have my adjective adjective noun in your gorgeous sexy mouth".

If she point blank refuses ask her (later) why. If it's something silly like she finds it gross (assuming you're hygienic) or just doesn't enjoy it etc.. then she's a big neurotic prude or gay and your situation will NOT improve. In that case I'd start reconsidering the relationship.

Dudess

Canluum wrote: »

If it's something silly like she finds it gross (assuming you're hygienic) or just doesn't enjoy it etc.. then she's a big neurotic prude or gay and your situation will NOT improve.

That's just silly (especially the "gay" suggestion) - some girls have an issue with putting something in their mouths as they may have a sensitive gag reflex (even a small erect penis might set that off - not directing that at you specifically OP :D) especially something that's used for weeing. I know that's not a rational way of looking at things, but it's logical in its own way. And it's not necessarily something that can't be worked through. Some girls don't like the idea of semen in their mouths either. And she may be nervous and clueless about technique.

Canluum

Dudess wrote: »

That's just silly (especially the "gay" suggestion) - some girls have an issue with putting something in their mouths as they may have a sensitive gag reflex (even a small erect penis might set that off - not directing that at you specifically OP :D) especially something that's used for weeing. I know that's not a rational way of looking at things, but it's logical in its own way.

Oh come on... gag reflex? That's a very very lame excuse and there's many a ways to get around it without avoiding the area altogether! It's prudishness plain and simple. Objectively, performing oral sex on a woman is a lot more "gross" than on a man.

Anecdotally speaking, it seems to be one thing that separates gay men from straight or bi men is that gay men simply won't go down on a woman. And female sexual orientation can fluxuate. I'm not saying definitively that's she's gay, far from it, being Irish (I assume) it's far more likely she's just got prudish childish hangups about the whole thing... I just wouldn't rule it out.


This is assuming she's not just shy/nervous about technique, or wants him to initiate etc. etc. and actually states categorically that she just doesn't want to do it because it's icky... some people need to get over themselves.

jurgenscarl

IMHO If you want to be a good lover and keep a woman happy, you give a woman oral sex whether she wants to give you a blowjob or not.
It's as simple as that.
Giving oral sex to a woman and getting her incredibly aroused is a huge turn on for most men anyway.
Lots of women love to give oral sex.
But lots of other women don't.
Despite how they are protrayed in porn movies most women do not want men to ejaculate on their faces either.
Too many men who have been looking at porn think that real sex begins with a blowjob and ends with a blowjob and a money shot.
This attitude is ruining healthy natural sex with real girlfriends.
Such is life.
It's not fair but it's not the end of the world.
If you are unhappy that your girlfriend is not willing to give you oral sex and this is a big issue in your relationship then find someone else who is more adventurous sexually.

Dudess

Canluum wrote: »

Oh come on... gag reflex? That's a very very lame excuse and there's many a ways to get around it without avoiding the area altogether!

I agree - it's just a suggestion though, might be more of a big deal for her than you think it should be.

Objectively, performing oral sex on a woman is a lot more "gross" than on a man.

I'd have thought they're about the same (i.e. I don't think either is gross but as you say, objectively)?

being Irish (I assume) it's far more likely she's just got prudish childish hangups about the whole thing

Yeah, maybe it is prudishness, in which case she should look at things from another perspective - i.e. it's ok for her boyfriend to go down on her. And I did address the "childish hang-up" aspect, but what I'm saying is: maybe it would be an idea for them to work through this rather than him deciding "Ah, she's a prude, I'll move on". Just because she's a hetero female too btw doesn't mean she should automatically be enamoured with the idea.

jurgenscarl wrote: »

IMHO If you want to be a good lover and keep a woman happy, you give a woman oral sex

Agreed!
Although not all women are turned on by it (are they mad...?! :eek:;))

whether she wants to give you a blowjob or not.
It's as simple as that.

... If the guy is keen on doing so. If he's not, well he shouldn't feel coerced into it either, but it's something that should be discussed.

If you are unhappy that your girlfriend is not willing to give you oral sex and this is a big issue in your relationship then find someone else who is more adventurous sexually.

OP, I think you should say to her it's not dirty, you're effectively doing the same for her and you don't find it dirty, and it's a totally great, natural thing and she should consider the same thing in reverse - that it would give you great pleasure, just like you giving her head gives her great pleasure, and it's an integral part of a sexual relationship.
As I said, I don't think she should be forced, but I do think it's unfair of her to not even try it. Tell her you'll be patient and considerate and will guide her as to how you like it. If she is obstinate though and just "No I'm not doing it, so there!" about it, then yes, maybe it's time to reconsider things...

Canluum

Dudess wrote: »

I'd have thought they're about the same (i.e. I don't think either is gross but as you say, objectively)?

Well, since you put it as a question...

dry (I assume relatively odorless) skin protrusion, not much different than a big finger vs mucus membrane oriface (I am so sorry...) with its fair amount of pungent flora.

Of course when you're really turned on, none of that should matter

Dudess wrote: »

but what I'm saying is: maybe it would be an idea for them to work through this rather than him deciding "Ah, she's a prude, I'll move on".

Dudess wrote: »

And I did address the "childish hang-up" aspect

As did I about the trying to talk it out first.

LegacyUser

thanks for the responces folks..

when i said if she said she didnt do it from the start it would be fine i ment if she had said it in the txts she sent instead of telling me in detail how she was going to do it...

the first night we made love i went down on her first expecting it to be returned but she said not tonight.. i thought fair enough its our first night pretty much the thing happened the second night again i let it go but when it happened the third time i asked her was she not going to return the favour and she said no i dont do that... now i dont want to seem petty and not do it to after doing it allready....

when i tried talking to her about it she just says it yuk and changes the subject.. i dont want to force her into doing it either but i just wish she never sent them txts!!

other than that we get on very well.. just said i would vent it here and save a row with her!!

katie99

If the girl doesn't want to give you oral for whatever reason then just accept it.
I know some girls don't like it.
Grow up.

Dudess

Why should he just accept it and why should he grow up? Hardly fair. His post is perfectly reasonable and he is every bit entitled to want to experience this, which is highly pleasurable and a fairly run-of-the-mill aspect of a sexual relationship.

He is seeing to his girlfriend's needs, but she won't entertain his? **** that!

LegacyUser

Canluum that's a ridiculous quote.

I'm a 27 yr old girl, in a long relationship. While my boyfriend is quite willing to have oral sex, I am not. There's one simple reason for that - obviously I like being on the receiving end, but being on the giving end...I'll be sick.

So. As far as I'm concerned, I think it's unfair to expect him to do it to me if I won't do it back. That doesn't stop him most the time, but I do feel incredibly bad about it, and I won't let him do it unless he really wants to. There's plenty of other ways we have fun! But it's the whole idea....having his penis in my mouth, and the texture/taste of semen (mostly that)....just totally puts me off it. We have tried, and it just ends with me gagging and practically vomiting. Let me tell you, that's a pretty quick way to put a damper on any fun in the bedroom!!

And no I'm definitely not gay, I'm not childish, I don't have hang ups about sex. I am however quite squeamish in general, about anything hospital related etc, and I've a feeling that may be part of my problem. I do my best to get over it, but it's very difficult.However 7 years later, it doesn't seem to be bothering my boyfriend way too much.

As for the OP, well, I don't know, I suppose you need to ask yourself do you want to stay with her, or is this a serious problem for you? You do need to try and talk to her about it a bit more I'd say. But, to all men out there, your sex life is not actually going to be the exact same as what you see in porn videos and a girl is entitled to say what they do and don't like without a man thinking they're prudish. You're not automatically entitled to blow-jobs with every relationship, regardless of what you might think.

Miss Fluff

Has she expressly said she will never give you head? You said she "wont return the favour". You said you have only very recently started going out with her, so are you sure there's not a whole world of blow-jobs just waiting around the corner for you? Are you presuming she won't because she hasn't as yet or because she actually told you that she will never go down on you, end of?

And have you told her how much you like head?

Canluum

Canluum wrote: »

Well, since you put it as a question...

dry (I assume relatively odorless) skin protrusion, not much different than a big finger vs mucus membrane oriface (I am so sorry...) with its fair amount of pungent flora.

Just for the record, having a penis in your mouth is NOTHING like putting a big finger in your mouth. If it was, girls would give a lot more head.

fungun

ok id agree, but i (and i do give oral to women!) do think his point was that when men give oral its a bit more internal (and hence more bacteria etc) then it is for women.

mitsy

Hi OP, you need to talk to your girlfriend. I know its easier said than done especially with subjects like this but if it is something that is on your mind then you need to say it to her because otherwise you will become resentful of the fact that she isnt reciprocating.

It might be easier to bring up the subject by asking her what are the things she enjoys when you are intimate with each other and you tell her the things you like. Make her feel comfortable and safe and reassured, dont demand anything and listen to what she has to say.

It could be something as simple as she isnt sure what to do, what technique to use, what you might like, that kind of thing but you need to talk to her.

If it comes down to the fact she just isnt into it and is not interested in pleasuring you in that way, then its up to you how you wish to proceed from there but at least you will know for sure how she feels about it. And it is up to her what she feels comfortable with in the bedroom. There is no point wondering and guessing what the issue is, just ask her.

Good luck:)

Ickle Magoo

Canluum wrote: »

Well, since you put it as a question...

dry (I assume relatively odorless) skin protrusion, not much different than a big finger vs mucus membrane oriface (I am so sorry...) with its fair amount of pungent flora.

Of course when you're really turned on, none of that should matter

And just how many penises have you had in your mouth to enable you to make such authoritative claims on the matter?

Blow-jobs and finger sucking are nothing alike, not in taste, not in texture, not in size; other than in basic shape I'm struggling to think of similarities. While giving oral to a woman involves more skin on skin contact, there is no risk of something solid hitting the rear of your mouth/back of your throat...which I believe is the main complaint for those who don't like giving head.

Dudess

Yeah, giving head to a man is enjoyable, can be fantastic from start to finish, but not something that a person is necessarily really into the minute they start doing it (and they shouldn't be made to feel bad about that) - it takes some getting used to.

Ickle Magoo

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, giving head to a man is enjoyable, can be fantastic from start to finish, but not something that a person is necessarily really into the minute they start doing it (and they shouldn't be made to feel bad about that) - it takes some getting used to.

It also takes some practice/self control from the receiver to ensure that hair pulling, thrusting and pushing of head onto penis is kept to a minimum unless that's what the giver really likes - or they may find blow-jobs off the menu in the future! :pac:

Canluum

what?????????????? wrote: »

but being on the giving end...I'll be sick.

Canluum wrote:

there's many a ways to get around it without avoiding the area altogether!

^

what?????????????? wrote: »

But it's the whole idea....having his penis in my mouth, and the texture/taste of semen (mostly that)....just totally puts me off it.
...
I don't have hang ups about sex.

A bit of a contradiction, you do: oral sex. Whether it be based in squeamishness, prissyness, insecurity or whatever, it's a hangup at the end of the day

You are lucky though you've found someone who can put up with it. It's a deal breaker for a lot of people. I certainly wouldn't commit to a partner who was so skittish around, and disgusted by what for me defines my masculinity.

what?????????????? wrote: »

As for the OP, well, I don't know, I suppose you need to ask yourself do you want to stay with her, or is this a serious problem for you? You do need to try and talk to her about it a bit more I'd say.

Agreed

what?????????????? wrote: »

But, to all men out there, your sex life is not actually going to be the exact same as what you see in porn videos

Please don't patronise us as a group. The vast majority of us are well aware of this. Porn is about extremes. Most men I've discussed this with generally don't prefer mainstream porn because of its lack of realism, you can't picture yourself in these bizarre situations because they don't match your experience (home made porn ftw btw)

and a girl is entitled to say what they do and don't like without a man thinking they're prudish.

You can say what you do and don't do, people can think what they want though, based on the evidence presented.

You're not automatically entitled to blow-jobs with every relationship, regardless of what you might think.

You're not entitled to anything in life. Some things are expected however, and are very important to many.

true-or-false wrote: »

Just for the record, having a penis in your mouth is NOTHING like putting a big finger in your mouth. If it was, girls would give a lot more head.

Elaborate please, you imply it's somehow a lot worse? Giving head surely is for most open-minded liberalised people a pleasurable endeavor. Maybe I've just gotten lucky in my choice of sexual partners.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

And just how many penises have you had in your mouth to enable you to make such authoritative claims on the matter?

...
really?

By the way before anyone starts going all gender-wars on me, I'd be shouting a lot louder if this was a girl complaining about her BF not going down on her. Only because I have the clout of personal experience to back it up. I don't believe my gender and orientation should detract from my reasoning though.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Blow-jobs and finger sucking are nothing alike, not in taste, not in texture, not in size; other than in basic shape I'm struggling to think of similarities. While giving oral to a woman involves more skin on skin contact, there is no risk of something solid hitting the rear of your mouth/back of your throat...which I believe is the main complaint for those who don't like giving head.

Thanks for that, genuinely. That "main complaint" though can be prevented pretty easily.


PS: if you were a sexually active gay man who didn't go down, you'd be thought of as very weird altogether. Now that we're so well beyond the archaic beliefs of the Victorian era, I don't see how it should necessarily differ for women (this is the feminist in me speaking believe it or not).

Wibbs

If a partner doesnt do something for you you think is important or does something that irritates you, then you have to decide is this enough of an issue to potentially cause a split now or down the line. Goes for inside and outside the bedroom. If it is enough of an issue and they wont discuss it or for whatever reason feel its not worth discussion then the decision to stay or go is up to you.

Ickle Magoo

Canluum wrote: »

Thanks for that, genuinely. That "main complaint" though can be prevented pretty easily.


PS: if you were a sexually active gay man who didn't go down, you'd be thought of as very weird altogether. Now that we're so well beyond the archaic beliefs of the Victorian era, I don't see how it should necessarily differ for women (this is the feminist in me speaking believe it or not).

What other people think of it is largely irrelevant and slightly immature, tbh. The main complaint can be prevented but that doesn't mean that every woman is going to want to do it...like everything else that involves consenting adults, that's her prerogative.

Canluum

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

What other people think of it is largely irrelevant and slightly immature, tbh. The main complaint can be prevented but that doesn't mean that every woman is going to want to do it...like everything else that involves consenting adults, that's her prerogative.

I dunno, "what other people think" (in this case a whole section of society) are the social and cultural values we hold dear, I'd hardly call it immaturity. I would say an unwillingness to explore sexually stems from immaturity, but maybe that's just me. Sure, people can be as selfish as they want in the bedroom, doesn't mean we have to like it.

Ickle Magoo

Blow-jobs are a social and cultural norm we hold dear, now? Are you sure about that? Is that what your grandparents told you? :P

Look, we don't even know if the OP's girlfriend is actually refusing to perform fellatio or if she just hasn't offered yet. Within a single relationship who else does what is irrelevant unless being used as some kind of peer driven pressure and bandying around the school-yard "but everybody else does it" whine would just smack of immaturity.

muinteoir09

At the risk of getting slated...

I could never stay with someone who didn't give oral.

OP, you should talk with your girlfriend and find out if she has no intention of ever giving you a blowjob. If not, you need to decide if you can live without that.

To all those complaining that going down on a guy is unpleasant and vomit inducing:

Having never given a blowjob I cannot comment personally on the ease or difficulty but I know from my OH that blowjob does not equal gagging unless the penis goes in too far. Provided the man behaves himself, there shouldn't be a problem and the gag-reflex argument is negated.

Canluum

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Blow-jobs are a social and cultural norm we hold dear, now? Are you sure about that? Is that what your grandparents told you? :P
...
Within a single relationship who else does what is irrelevant unless being used as some kind of peer driven pressure and bandying around the school-yard "but everybody else does it" whine would just smack of immaturity.

I'd appreciate it if you were less patronising in your tone. You misunderstood. Sex is inextricably involved in society. What our grandparents did is about as relevant as attitudes toward pedarism in ancient Greece, feudal Japan and certain modern day pacific island cultures. How sex is perceived and treated is markedly different in different cultures. I'm sure you wouldn't advocate people's right to seduce 12 year old boys, or making a pariah of someone who had sex before marriage. None of this is built-in, it's part and parcel of the modern western values toward sex in which we hold in such high regard. I'm not talking about what joe soap thinks down the road, or the schoolyard meme of the moment, I'm talking about society as a whole. Expecting oral sex in a relationship is no more immature than expecting that your partner has had previous sexual partners. It has become the norm. Sure some people won't do it, some people won't kiss either (this is the norm for many cultures too). No kissing would similarly be a dealbreaker for me.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Look, we don't even know if the OP's girlfriend is actually refusing to perform fellatio or if she just hasn't offered yet.

bill 3 wrote:

i asked her was she not going to return the favour and she said no i dont do that...

when i tried talking to her about it she just says it yuk and changes the subject..

^I think it's pretty conclusive. Sigh... if some girl I was seeing said that about my genitals I'd be pretty damn offended, and they wouldn't last long.

ApeXaviour

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, giving head to a man is enjoyable, can be fantastic from start to finish, but not something that a person is necessarily really into the minute they start doing it (and they shouldn't be made to feel bad about that) - it takes some getting used to.

Just an addendum, this is not gender specific sentiment. At least any other men I've talked to, you need to be used to the person and quite turned on, as it can be rather in-your-face

LegacyUser

fungun wrote: »

ok id agree, but i (and i do give oral to women!) do think his point was that when men give oral its a bit more internal (and hence more bacteria etc) then it is for women.

It may have been his point but it does not make it true. There is equally as much bacteria there for both men and women internal or not internal even after a shower in my opinion. I actually love giving head and get some what of a kick out of it.

jurgenscarl

This is why humans invented the 69.

It is in giving that you recieve.

Ickle Magoo

Canluum wrote: »

I'd appreciate it if you were less patronising in your tone.

Says the man telling us all that blow jobs are akin to finger sucking? :pac:

Canluum wrote: »

You misunderstood. Sex is inextricably involved in society. What our grandparents did is about as relevant as attitudes toward pedarism in ancient Greece, feudal Japan and certain modern day pacific island cultures. How sex is perceived and treated is markedly different in different cultures. I'm sure you wouldn't advocate people's right to seduce 12 year old boys, or making a pariah of someone who had sex before marriage. None of this is built-in, it's part and parcel of the modern western values toward sex in which we hold in such high regard. I'm not talking about what joe soap thinks down the road, or the schoolyard meme of the moment, I'm talking about society as a whole. Expecting oral sex in a relationship is no more immature than expecting that your partner has had previous sexual partners. It has become the norm. Sure some people won't do it, some people won't kiss either (this is the norm for many cultures too). No kissing would similarly be a dealbreaker for me.

Sex is integral yes, but blow jobs? There are some cultures (not a million miles away) that until very recently, anything bar missionary with the lights out for the express purposes of procreation was considered scandalous...in some families I imagine passing on the whole sexual repression and conservatism continues.

It would be a deal breaker for me too but that doesn't mean it should be expected that this girl put the OPs penis in her mouth - any more than doing anal or prostate milking SHOULD be a part of their sex life, just because it's a part of other peoples or considered commonplace by others. It was the insinuation that because other people do it that somehow invalidates or makes ridiculous her refusal that I think immature, rather than the perfectly rational wish to include fellatio as part of their sexual repertoire.

Canluum wrote: »

^I think it's pretty conclusive. Sigh... if some girl I was seeing said that about my genitals I'd be pretty damn offended, and they wouldn't last long.

How did I miss that? Yeah, that's a horrible thing to say about your partner! :eek:

I don't think her lack of discussion & her general tone is very mature at all but that, of course, doesn't alter her right to refuse. If getting fellatio is an issue for the OP then he may have to find someone else more willing...or perhaps refusing to kiss/hug/go down on her until she discusses it properly would work better? :cool:

Miss Fluff

bill 3 wrote: »

thanks for the responces folks..

when i said if she said she didnt do it from the start it would be fine i ment if she had said it in the txts she sent instead of telling me in detail how she was going to do it...

the first night we made love i went down on her first expecting it to be returned but she said not tonight.. i thought fair enough its our first night pretty much the thing happened the second night again i let it go but when it happened the third time i asked her was she not going to return the favour and she said no i dont do that... now i dont want to seem petty and not do it to after doing it allready....

when i tried talking to her about it she just says it yuk and changes the subject.. i dont want to force her into doing it either but i just wish she never sent them txts!!

other than that we get on very well.. just said i would vent it here and save a row with her!!

Didn't see this earlier. Tbh she has mislead you. Sending you texts with a blow-by-blow (:D) account of how she's going to go down on you and describing what she does when she gets there and then turning around and telling you that she finds it "yuk" is pretty sh1tty.

Are you fussy with your personal hygiene OP? You sure there is not lots of smeg lurking under there or anything? Sorry to ask, but I just find it strange that she would be graphic in her desire to to perform oral on you and then seemingly does a u-turn and tells you she finds it disgusting. Either she is a liar who likes to mislead or there is some impediment as to why she won't.

Either way you cannot and should not coerce her into it. No point in her performing oral sex if she has an objection to it, then it wouldn't be enjoyable for either of you or particularly healthy for the relationship.

You do need to talk to her about it again though.

Canluum

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Says the man telling us all that blow jobs are akin to finger sucking? :pac:

This ad hominem approach to arguments is troll-like and tiresome. You've not come up with a better analogy... It's finger shaped and covered is skin. Sure the texture/smell might be a bit different, but having talked with some friends about this they agreed it was "reasonably representative", size being the main differing factor.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

doesn't mean it should be expected that this girl put the OPs penis in her mouth - any more than doing anal or prostate milking SHOULD be a part of their sex life, just because it's a part of other peoples or considered commonplace by others.

This appears to be the crux of our disagreement. You see it as some sort of fetish (which IMO, a good partner should make reasonable strides to satisfy in their SO ANYway). I see it as bread and butter sex, not including it being as ridiculous as not open-mouth kissing, or not manually stimulating.

It was the insinuation that because other people do it that somehow invalidates or makes ridiculous her refusal that I think immature

It doesn't invalidate (how could it?), it does make it a little ridiculous, as would (as I've said) not kissing. We only kiss because it's the done thing in our culture, "other people" do it (i.e. society as a whole, not the peer-pressuring teenagers on the street corner) so we do too. Similar can be said for oral sex, manual sex, expected use of a sheath etc. etc. You may think this reasoning immature, I'd thoroughly disagree. Your condescending tone however IMHO, is immature.

Miss Fluff wrote:

Either way you cannot and should not coerce her into it.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

but that, of course, doesn't alter her right to refuse.

That either of you would imply anyone here thinks otherwise I frankly find insulting.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

or perhaps refusing to kiss/hug/go down on her until she discusses it properly would work better? :cool:

Siege tactics don't work in relationships. They're petty, childlike, lead to stubborn behaviour and at the very least, two very pissed off and upset people.
Maturely making it known that this is a serious issue for you OP (i.e. potential dealbreaker) should at least open her up to discussion.

Ickle Magoo

Are you for real? This is hysterical. Your advice that was commented on consisted of;

then she's a big neurotic prude or gay and your situation will NOT improve.

and then you drop in, despite my never mentioning my own preferences, ad-hominems like;

You see it as some sort of fetish

Seriously, accusing anyone else of ad-hominems, immaturity and lame advice or trolling is frankly laughable...and hardly helpful to the OP.

We agree blow-jobs are great and the majority like giving or receiving & we agree the OP has to discuss this with his girlfriend as a matter of urgency. If she refuses to discuss and changes the subject then I don't think withdrawing from the physical side of their relationship, especially if she is perfectly happy to receive but is refusing to give, is a particularly bad idea. If someone considered my genitals "yuk", I'd have a problem mustering the enthusiasm to get close and personal, anyway.

Canluum

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

and then you drop in, despite my never mentioning my own preferences, ad-hominems like;

You see it as some sort of fetish

I was referring to how you apparently don't see it as something to be expected (along the lines of prosate milking I believe), where-as I would (more along the lines of petting).
That's not ad-hominem...
This is however:

Are you for real? This is hysterical.
...
Seriously, accusing anyone else of ad-hominems, immaturity and lame advice or trolling is frankly laughable...

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

We agree blow-jobs are great and the majority like giving or receiving & we agree the OP has to discuss this with his girlfriend as a matter of urgency. If she refuses to discuss and changes the subject then I don't think withdrawing from the physical side of their relationship, especially if she is perfectly happy to receive but is refusing to give, is a particularly bad idea. If someone considered my genitals "yuk", I'd have a problem mustering the enthusiasm to get close and personal, anyway.

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me, it seems we feel the same . It'd be a dealbreaker for you too, therefore you expect it no?

In terms of how to deal with it... Stubborn siege tactics, while (admittedly) they sound very good in theory, just don't work in practice. It's negative reinforcement. Consciously withholding is passive-aggressive and does not make for a healthy relationship. This might just be the anti-fascist in me talking. I assume these people are adults though, and are capable of intelligent discourse without resorting to petty games or using sex/intimacy as a weapon.

Ickle Magoo

Canluum wrote: »

I was referring to how you apparently don't see it as something to be expected (along the lines of prosate milking I believe), where-as I would (more along the lines of petting).

I don't apparently see it that way at all, you are being presumptuous. I think the majority of people would enter a relationship expecting that blow-jobs be a part of their sexual experience, yes, but there is always going to be people who like or dislike particular sexual interactions, the "everyone else does it" argument is moot when discussing a particular individual that doesn't conform to whatever generality being applied.

Canluum wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me, it seems we feel the same . It'd be a dealbreaker for you too, therefore you expect it no?

I wouldn't date someone who thought my genitals were yuk and refused to discuss things, the fact they don't like giving head would be less of an issue. Everyone has their sexual likes & dislikes, if I really liked the person and otherwise the relationship was great then the situation would be workable. Perhaps not preferable but definitely workable.

Canluum wrote: »

In terms of how to deal with it... Stubborn siege tactics, while (admittedly) they sound very good in theory, just don't work in practice. It's negative reinforcement. Consciously withholding is passive-aggressive and does not make for a healthy relationship. This might just be the anti-fascist in me talking. I assume these people are adults though, and are capable of intelligent discourse without resorting to petty games.

I think it would be siege tactics to refuse to indulge her until she gives him head, withdrawing from the physical side of their relationship until she's willing to discuss why on earth she's gone from sending suggesting texts to denigrating the OP's genitalia would just be refusing to facilitate her behaviour and stopping her having her cake and eating it until the issue is dealt with to both their satisfaction, imo. If the girlfriend was willing to sit and openly discuss what is going on, I presume the OP would have no need to post here?

Canluum

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I think it would be siege tactics to refuse to indulge her until she gives him head, withdrawing from the physical side of their relationship until she's willing to discuss why on earth she's gone from sending suggesting texts to denigrating the OP's genitalia would just be refusing to facilitate her behaviour and stopping her having her cake and eating it until the issue is dealt with to both their satisfaction, imo. If the girlfriend was willing to sit and openly discuss what is going on

Your end goal is fine, but the means you're suggesting are still passive-aggressive and low. If the OP really wanted to go about it this way (instead of a more honest: "this is affecting our relationship, we need to deal with it or I'm not sure I can stay in it" approach to open the lines of communication) then he could mitigate some of that nastiness by explicitly stating why he is withholding. "I'm not going to hug or kiss you until you sit down and talk to me about this elephant in the room without changing the subject". Leaving her guessing as to his reasons for withholding intimacy is just plain cruel and unnecessary. Maybe you meant this, maybe you didn't, I think it's an important distinction.

Sound Bite

Hi OP, I agree with you. Think it was wrong of your girlfriend to make suggestions she wasn't willing to follow through with.

I'm female and I wonder if its a confidence issue. Years ago I would have been somewhat reluctant re BJs, wondering if I'd wouldn't be good at it or if he's have received better elsewhere.

The gag-reflex is a poor excuse & can't see how it could be an issue unless a girl is trying to swallow a whole penis or something. Same will arguments saying dislike consistency/taste etc...just swallow the semen asap & that solves it fairly quickly. Ejuculation should be seen as confirmation of a job well done & personally, I'd be much more worried if I couldn't bring him to that stage.

Talk to her OP, see what the reasons for her objections are. Unless its because you have a cleanliness issue, think she's on weak ground.

If it is a confidence issue, encourage her til she gets it right. Ask yourself can you life without oral and if so for how long? Also withraw all services until she is willing to return the favour, that should focus her mind fairly quickly.

She is perfectly entitled not to do anything she's not comfortable with but she must be aware that there could be consequences to her actions. Sorry of its sounds harsh, but think she needs to grow up.

Ickle Magoo

Canluum wrote: »

Your end goal is fine, but the means you're suggesting are still passive-aggressive and low. If the OP really wanted to go about it this way (instead of a more honest: "this is affecting our relationship, we need to deal with it or I'm not sure I can stay in it" approach to open the lines of communication) then he could mitigate some of that nastiness by explicitly stating why he is withholding. "I'm not going to hug or kiss you until you sit down and talk to me about this elephant in the room without changing the subject". Leaving her guessing as to his reasons for withholding intimacy is just plain cruel and unnecessary. Maybe you meant this, maybe you didn't, I think it's an important distinction.

More presumptions, where was it even suggested that he should withhold and not state exactly why? The phrase I used was;

refusing to kiss/hug/go down on her until she discusses it properly

Unless determined to do so, I'm not sure how that could be construed as just being a decision he has made in his head but to say nothing to the girlfriend...

Canluum

Sound bite, good post in general. I just have an issue with this bit:

Sound Bite wrote: »

Also withraw all services until she is willing to return the favour, that should focus her mind fairly quickly.

Sex is not a competition to see who can take the most out of it while giving the least! That's a horrible horrible attitude to have. I'll tell you how it will pan out: he withdraws "services" (as you put it), she notices, gets stubborn and withdraws sex, everybody gets frustrated and bitter.

If a partner was doing that to me I'd get very bitter, and refuse to let it work, because you're just telling them that they can do that any time they want. Manipulate you negatively by withholding sex and holding it over you like a weapon. If she was giving and game (surprise blowjobs etc) I'd be exceptionally grateful and make very very sure she was sexually satisfied in any way she (didn't even realise she) desired.

Negative reinforcement DOESN'T work... you catch more flies with honey etc. etc. You're trying to build a relationship based on mutual giving and understanding, not competition. It's completely unnecessary for him to "withdraw services" except to satisfy some need to be petty or basically be an asshole. There are other ways to bring her to the table.

Canluum

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

More presumptions, where was it even suggested that he should withhold and not state exactly why?

You didn't suggest that he should state it explicitly either. Anyway if you had read all of my post you'd see I made no presumptions.

Canluum wrote:

Maybe you meant this, maybe you didn't, I think it's an important distinction.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Unless determined to do so, I'm not sure how that could be construed as just being a decision he has made in his head but to say nothing to the girlfriend...

It's not an easy thing to say "I am withholding x y z from you until you sit down and talk to me about such and such relationship problem"... (sounds silly too, but I suppose if you really really don't want to break up with them it's better not to give an ultimatum, I suppose I'll give you that. ). It's much easier just to be petty and irrationally hope they catch on. You'd be surprised how many people act passive aggressively and/or expect their partner to be mind-readers. "If you don't know well I'm not going to tell you" is the line often spouted.

Sound Bite

Thanks Canluum, take your point.

Suppose I should qualify what I posted. If he talks to her about it and she doesn't have a legitimate excuse, then I do think he should stop performing oral sex on her, not all other sexual contact. As a women, that is definately the most thing i would miss in a sexual relationship, even more so than intercourse.

This girl cannot expect to receive something and give nothing in return. The only time I would try and get away with that sort of behaviour is in a ONS situation/where I wasn't really into the guy. In a standard relationship, oral sex is the norm IMO and put simply - if you're not prepared to give it, be prepared not to get it. Same with most things in life, e.g. friendship, help, sympathy etc.

sadhbhc15

OP why not try flavoured condoms? Your girlfriend might be more comfortable with that...

LegacyUser

thanks again guys and girls!! i have tried talking to her about it but she says she dosent do that and that she was only messing when she sent the txt and that she dosent want to talk about it anymore!!

i think my penis is pretty normal. not to big or too small. i have good hygene and there is no mould or anything on it lol.. she is happy enough with it every other way...

i dont think she ment my peins was yuk i think it was more the giving the blowjob was yuk..

Miss Fluff

There really is nothing more to say on it then. She doesn't want to indulge. End of. So you now have to decide if blowjobs, or the lack thereof, are enough to make you want to break up with her and if you are happy to live in a fellatio-less world while in a relationship with her.

AngryBadger

If that's how it is I'd wonder what else she's going to just decide she doesn't want to do? A relationship is meant to be give AND take OP it can't just be about what your gf wants.

Ickle Magoo

AngryBadger wrote: »

If that's how it is I'd wonder what else she's going to just decide she doesn't want to do? A relationship is meant to be give AND take OP it can't just be about what your gf wants.

I'm not sure this necessarily sets a relationship precedence. There are hundreds if not thousands of personal likes and dislikes which each couple has to decide if they can live with or without - some guys refuse to have sex while the girl is on her period even tho she loves it, some people don't like PDA's others demand it, etc, etc, etc.

OP, you have your answer, she doesn't want to do it for whatever reason. Is that something you are prepared live with (or without as the case may be)?