custom rifles on sporting rifle

doyle61

got this months edition of sporting rifle and saw that theyre doing an article on custom rifles and Fergal White is fetured in it. havnt had a chance to read much of the mag yet but as usual it looks like it'll be a good read.
suppose we can all say that 50% of irelands top riflesmiths are in the magazine this month:D
ps fair play to Fergal

tiny-nioclas

Seen that myself, good to see! How would a fella go about training to be a gunsmith?

doyle61

well if you were able to get an fitter/turner apprentaship in the army when this embargo is lifted would be one way into it. another idea would be to talk to both Fergal White and John Greene for advice.
a few of the lads i know joined the army as tool makers and i reackon its one of the better trades to get into the whole field. hope this helps a bit

customrifle

Hi Lads, just in response to how to become a gunsmith, Ive had this chat with Fergal a few times and dont know if i agree with him but i suppose he does have a point.
Fergal cant wait for the day theres another 3 or 4 lads doin similar work to himself. He reckons that if there were a few more rifle builders in this country it would create a custom rifle culture among our shooters.
If you look at the uk where theres possibly over 20 builders, the custom scene is relatively big business, go as far as germany or even the states the scene is much bigger, massive infact.
He believes if(when) that day comes, it ll really kick things off here, and people would get more in touch with the whole custom rifle scene and we could be right up there in terms of volume, and the whole thing could potentially become very big just like the other countries.

jwshooter

customrifle wrote: »

Hi Lads, just in response to how to become a gunsmith, Ive had this chat with Fergal a few times and dont know if i agree with him but i suppose he does have a point.
Fergal cant wait for the day theres another 3 or 4 lads doin similar work to himself. He reckons that if there were a few more rifle builders in this country it would create a custom rifle culture among our shooters.
If you look at the uk where theres possibly over 20 builders, the custom scene is relatively big business, go as far as germany or even the states the scene is much bigger, massive infact.
He believes if(when) that day comes, it ll really kick things off here, and people would get more in touch with the whole custom rifle scene and we could be right up there in terms of volume, and the whole thing could potentially become very big just like the other countries.

it will never happen , most to the work they do is threading etc . there is not to many guys getting a full custom gun built .

also we have feck all ranges where lads can shoot out to a grand .

my mate has a blazer it will shoot half inchish groups at 300yds ,with factory ammo .tikkas will do as good as will sakos .
this brings us to a major factor in custom guns the ammo ,to get the very last 100th of a mm you have to load .

my 270 sako will shoot groups at 100yds that you will cover with a one cent coin with out much effort with some ammo .
i have enquired off sam of intershoot about getting ammo loaded for me in the uk ,totally legit ,might be the way to go .

Sika98k

customrifle wrote: »

Hi Lads, just in response to how to become a gunsmith, Ive had this chat with Fergal a few times and dont know if i agree with him but i suppose he does have a point.
Fergal cant wait for the day theres another 3 or 4 lads doin similar work to himself. He reckons that if there were a few more rifle builders in this country it would create a custom rifle culture among our shooters.
If you look at the uk where theres possibly over 20 builders, the custom scene is relatively big business, go as far as germany or even the states the scene is much bigger, massive infact.
He believes if(when) that day comes, it ll really kick things off here, and people would get more in touch with the whole custom rifle scene and we could be right up there in terms of volume, and the whole thing could potentially become very big just like the other countries.

The shooting population here is just not big enough here
Market demands will determine how many gunsmiths will be sustainable in this country.

ejg

The market is limited in Ireland. But at the moment the custom route has a bit of growth potential. I don't believe in the 1/2" 300yd Blaser. At the last comp they struggled to hold 6".
I also don't believe that any factory hunting rifle can hold it's own against a custom rifle when it comes to year round reliability. Maybe Blasers are getting closer, but then again they are as expensive as a simpler custom rifle with a good stock.

We also have to have a closer look at what a custom rifle smith has to offer. Starting from pillar bedding an existing stock which can increase accuracy and reliability imensly to rechambering the factory barrel
or replacing the factory barrel with a hand lapped match grade barrel.

A few hundred Euro might be well spent compared to messing around for ages and wasting boxes and boxes of ammo. Maybe even wounding deer.

The two custom rifle builders we have (or I know of) have their place and are well needed.
edi

jwshooter

ejg wrote: »

The market is limited in Ireland. But at the moment the custom route has a bit of growth potential. I don't believe in the 1/2" 300yd Blaser. At the last comp they struggled to hold 6".
I also don't believe that any factory hunting rifle can hold it's own against a custom rifle when it comes to year round reliability. Maybe Blasers are getting closer, but then again they are as expensive as a simpler custom rifle with a good stock.

We also have to have a closer look at what a custom rifle smith has to offer. Starting from pillar bedding an existing stock which can increase accuracy and reliability imensly to rechambering the factory barrel
or replacing the factory barrel with a hand lapped match grade barrel.

A few hundred Euro might be well spent compared to messing around for ages and wasting boxes and boxes of ammo. Maybe even wounding deer.

The two custom rifle builders we have (or I know of) have their place and are well needed.
edi

iv seen the group and trust the guy that shot it .

factory rifles with some pedigree like sako ,tikka ,blazer can shoot as well as a custom gun , granted not a custom guns turn out to be tack drivers as not all factory rifles shoot poorly .

the comp you shot in last week ,you were the only one in the top 5 to use custom kit and you did not win it by a lot .

compare like with like ,if you load for your custom 308 and i load for my 308 sako or blazer ,at end of the day there will be noting in it ,given both guns shoot in the first place .

i have seen so called custom guns that struggled to hold MOA ..so its down to skill of the rifle builder and the operator

Kramer

jwshooter wrote: »

iv seen the group and trust the guy that shot it

So that's what, 0.15/0.16 MOA @ 300 yards from a factory rifle with factory ammo?
Was this world class shot in Castlemaine last weekend? If he was, he didn't do very well did he?

the comp you shot in last week ,you were the only one in the top 5 to use custom kit and you did not win it by a lot

Were you there? Obviously not.
FYI, a custom rifle WON that competition & it wasn't ejg's .
ejg won the "factory/sporting" class which was intended for standard factory sporting rifles.

jwshooter

Kramer wrote: »

So that's what, 0.15/0.16 MOA @ 300 yards from a factory rifle with factory ammo?
Was this world class shot in Castlemaine last weekend? If he was, he didn't do very well did he?



Were you there? Obviously not.
FYI, a custom rifle WON that competition & it wasn't ejg's .
ejg won the "factory/sporting" class which was intended for standard factory sporting rifles.

with a gun that was built by roedale in Germany !.his words .lets see your custom builds ,post 19 .19-6-10.

like i said i seen the group .

ejg

JW you had posted that I had won, not me.
I led the lighter class with a sporter weight rifle and the winner had a F-class rig in 6.5x47, he had one V bull more than I. Overall winner was the heavy rifle with 95 vs my 94 points.
It was not really defined what was heavy class and what was light, as also Varmint weight barreled rifles including heavy barreled blasers where classed light. Accuracy international's in alu chasis systems and TRG's or F-class target rifles I think were heavy class.
As I've said before I'm not a target shooter and only took part because I knew Johnny Creedon and went deer stalking with him before.

Back to the thread,
I do not think a factory hunting rifle can compete with a well made custom rifle.
because, stocks:
-are made of flimsy material that don't hold consistent torque on action screws because the material "flows" under pressure.
This is the case with Polypropylene and Nylon and wooden stocks.
-Traditionally the hunter wants a stock to have a small gap between barrel and stock, this paired with the low stiffness of injection moulded and walnut stocks lead automatically to stock barrel touching and inacuracy.
- sometimes pressure bedded...even worse meaning the pressure on the barrel depends on how a rifle is held.. and that's how it shoots too.

Barrels are mostly cold hammer forged.
great for a throw away machine guns but not the best for a precision rifle.
Way to much stress in the material.

These points all need to be fixed before one can think about precision and consistent shooting.
That's what you need a custom rifle builder for.

In order of importance to accurize a standard hunting rifle in my opinion. Depending on the rifle of course.

1) free float barrel
2) bed, if needed pillar bed
3) tune trigger or custom trigger
4) custom stock (or a better stock)
5) change barrel to a custom match grade barrel
6) blue print action


edi

dwighet

This is gunna be a good one.....

jwshooter

i was talking about the factory/sporter class as you know well ,not F class guns as i have no interest in them .

your shooting a custom sporter , you won by a point on the next best and there was only a few points in the top 5 ,4 factory guns and your rifle . forget about F class or custom cals ,like i said compare like with like .

the standard of the top brands of hunting rifles is outstanding . there is noting wrong with sako,tikka,blazer stocks or barrels the triggers are as good as any discerning hunter will want .

fair enough your trying to find a market for your stocks ,but it is not necessary to run down factory guns or stocks to promote them.

It wasn't me!

On the Sako accuracy note, was out checking zero today. The grass is too high where I was shooting to go prone, so I was shooting off the boot of the car, not something I'm particularly comfortable with, but my Sako 75 in .25-06 was consistently putting two shots touching or intersecting and then, like a pillock, I was making a clown of the third, with it opening up to about three quarters of an inch to an inch each time. Not much wrong with that factory barrel, and I'm not its first owner.

jwshooter

It wasn't me! wrote: »

On the Sako accuracy note, was out checking zero today. The grass is too high where I was shooting to go prone, so I was shooting off the boot of the car, not something I'm particularly comfortable with, but my Sako 75 in .25-06 was consistently putting two shots touching or intersecting and then, like a pillock, I was making a clown of the third, with it opening up to about three quarters of an inch to an inch each time. Not much wrong with that factory barrel, and I'm not its first owner.

your measuring edge to edge not centre to centre,can you cover the group with a cent coin

It wasn't me!

jwshooter wrote: »

your measuring edge to edge not centre to centre,can you cover the group with a cent coin

The first two shots, I'd say the edge of one hole would just poke out, but the third shot I pull like a pillock (not happy shooting off the boot, no stability) brings it to about three quarters of an inch, centre to centre. It's my fault though. It'd be sub half inch with a better shot driving it.

jwshooter

It wasn't me! wrote: »

The first two shots, I'd say the edge of one hole would just poke out, but the third shot I pull like a pillock (not happy shooting off the boot, no stability) brings it to about three quarters of an inch, centre to centre. It's my fault though. It'd be sub half inch with a better shot driving it.

or prone or bench . i hate shooting off a jeep or car .dont mind out the window;)

It wasn't me!

jwshooter wrote: »

or prone or bench . i hate shooting off a jeep or car .dont mind out the window;)

Oh definitely. Was shooting at the range a couple of weeks back, groups were three quarters of an inch at 200 yards. Not bad for an untouched second-hand factory sporter rifle. I'm happy to advise anyone to buy a Sako. When I shoot the barrel out of this one, I expect the custom barrel won't shoot any better either.

Kramer

jwshooter wrote: »

i hate shooting off a jeep or car .dont mind out the window;)

So, in other words, you're happy enough committing a criminal offence?

:D:D:P

Kramer

ejg wrote: »

the winner had a F-class rig in 6.5x47

It wasn't an F-class rig. Heavyish barrelled bolt action with detachable box mag in a McMillan A3 stock - far from F-class spec .

Good shooting on the day though from the top guys - I really enjoyed it.

dwighet

Im going to have to get me one of these super dooper wizz bang sako 75 rifles...

Tackleberrywho

dwighet wrote: »

Im going to have to get me one of these super dooper wizz bang sako 75 rifles...

I saw a savage .308 FTR with a custom barrel shoot very nice groups in wind from a 19 year old sat.

I have also seen a SAKO TRG that was rebarrelled with ;wait for it "a custom barrel"

It wasn't me!

dwighet wrote: »

Im going to have to get me one of these super dooper wizz bang sako 75 rifles...

I reckon so. A worthy addition to any gun safe.

jwshooter

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I reckon so. A worthy addition to any gun safe.

its hard to educate the ignorant

It wasn't me!

jwshooter wrote: »

its hard to educate the ignorant

Sure he'll be selling up all the custom Remmy stuff now once he gets his mitts on one nice 75, replace the whole collection then.

Tackleberrywho

A Howa action with a truflite barrel. Supposed to be a powerful combination. i think Edi's mate has one

dwighet

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I reckon so. A worthy addition to any gun safe.

not mine.....
They dont really do it for me..
Iwas just joking that I need one..

I just like listening to all the sako guys out there go on and on and on...
It cracks me up.:D:D

Tackleberrywho

dwighet wrote: »

not mine.....
They dont really do it for me..
Iwas just joking that I need one..

I just like listening to all the sako guys out there go on and on and on...
It cracks me up.:D:D

dwighet , how BOLD of you

Would you consider another custom?
And if so what would it be?

dwighet

jwshooter wrote: »

its hard to educate the ignorant

Ouch.........

dwighet

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

dwighet , how BOLD of you

Would you consider another custom?
And if so what would it be?

Well it would have to be a sako 75 action,Walther barell,mcmillan varmint stock.
I`d top it off with a swaro scope.;);)
Have it chambered in .270 win.......

If I needed a decent stalking rifle thats what I would do. But my current rifle is more than up to the task..

Now what im thinking for next year is to get rid of the 223 and go a 22-250..
Kreiger 28inch barrel,defiance single feed action,bell and carson varmint/tactical stock and all the rest of the trimmings...

Thats the plan at the moment...

BELOWaverageIQ

Would ye'all stop posting for five min, I need to go get more popcorn...:D

dwighet

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

Would ye'all stop posting for five min, I need to go get more popcorn...:D

Ya better put 2 bags in the microwave...theres feck all on the box and were just gettn warmed up....

Hows tricks...did ya get your trigger fitted?

jwshooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

A Howa action with a truflite barrel. Supposed to be a powerful combination. i think Edi's mate has one

HOWA ,go stand in the corner

jwshooter

dwighet wrote: »

Well it would have to be a sako 75 action,Walther barell,mcmillan varmint stock.
I`d top it off with a swaro scope.;);)
Have it chambered in .270 win.......

If I needed a decent stalking rifle thats what I would do. But my current rifle is more than up to the task..

Now what im thinking for next year is to get rid of the 223 and go a 22-250..
Kreiger 28inch barrel,defiance single feed action,bell and carson varmint/tactical stock and all the rest of the trimmings...

Thats the plan at the moment...

ya ,i have only just got your soupy finger prints off it

jwshooter

dwighet wrote: »

Ya better put 2 bags in the microwave...theres feck all on the box and were just gettn warmed up....

Hows tricks...did ya get your trigger fitted?

tour de france . for the next 3 weeks

dwighet

jwshooter wrote: »

HOWA ,go stand in the corner

Youll have to name that corner" the corner of ignorance";)
Bring a deck of cards Tac...we`ll have a game of 25...

dwighet

jwshooter wrote: »

tour de france . for the next 3 weeks

Like I said...Nothing on the box:)
Who`s going to win it?

johngalway

dwighet wrote: »

Like I said...Nothing on the box:)
Who`s going to win it?

Some druggie or other

BELOWaverageIQ

dwighet wrote: »

Ya better put 2 bags in the microwave...theres feck all on the box and were just gettn warmed up....

Hows tricks...did ya get your trigger fitted?

Ya, John is sticking it in the .223 at the moment.

As for the Tour de France.... You'd be better off with The freeviews on the Sky 997 channel and a good tub of Axle grease. .…

jwshooter

dwighet wrote: »

Like I said...Nothing on the box:)
Who`s going to win it?

the top 3 favourites hit the deck to day ,armstrong was cut up fairly well .

contador ,armstrong , schleck .but i would like armstrong to win .

Tackleberrywho

here's what I did to my .308 last night

Triangle turned round

clivej

Well I pillar bedded my Sako 75 308 last week and it turned out VERY well. My thanks to Glensman and JohnGalway for the help.

I hope it still shoots as well as it did :eek:

It was shooting 3/8" @100m, 3/4" @200y and 1+1/8"@300m, and that's me on a good day

Will keep ya'al posted;)

dwighet

clivej wrote: »

Well I pillar bedded my Sako 75 308 last week and it turned out VERY well. My thanks to Glensman and JohnGalway for the help.

I hope it still shoots as well as it did :eek:

It was shooting 3/8" @100m, 3/4" @200y and 1+1/8"@300m, and that's me on a good day

Will keep ya'al posted;)

I dont believe ya....
After seeing your effort the other weekend...:D
I thought you were using a shotgun..

Tackleberrywho

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

here's what I did to my .308 last night

Triangle turned round

Well she is now a 20" barrel as the 2 " muzzle break is gone.
She is quiet with the mod on, and the recoil is much less.

Down side the mod adds a few inches but she still is much shorter than a normal modded barrel.

I'll try and shoot groups today. I have no decent ammo left. a few remington match, a few hornady soft nose.

I thought intershoot was going to get me ammo really cheap, now it's just cheaper.

So I will try and get ammo of him soon.

Sending off for permit today!

clivej

dwighet wrote: »

I dont believe ya....
After seeing your effort the other weekend...:D
I thought you were using a shotgun..

I know, I hang my head in shame.

Oh so different shooting prone as against off the bench with rests. I blame using to long a bi-pod and the mounts are to high blar blar blar

Changes are in progress

Sparks

clivej wrote: »

Oh so different shooting prone as against off the bench with rests

*cough*realshootingyoumean*cough*


/cheeses it

jwshooter

clivej wrote: »

Well I pillar bedded my Sako 75 308 last week and it turned out VERY well. My thanks to Glensman and JohnGalway for the help.

I hope it still shoots as well as it did :eek:

It was shooting 3/8" @100m, 3/4" @200y and 1+1/8"@300m, and that's me on a good day

Will keep ya'al posted;)

good man clive .

thats fine shooting in any ones book .

clivej

dwighet wrote: »

I dont believe ya....
After seeing your effort the other weekend...:D
I thought you were using a shotgun..

clivej wrote: »

I know, I hang my head in shame.

Oh so different shooting prone as against off the bench with rests. I blame using to long a bi-pod and the mounts are to high blar blar blar

Changes are in progress

jwshooter wrote: »

good man clive .

thats fine shooting in any ones book .

And on a bad day I can't hit a 12x12 plate @300 prone.
Back to the drawing board so to speak.

I think, after talking to Tony T, my mounts are to high and my cheek is off the stock a little high so my eye is not holding steady on the POI in prone, alright at the bench. and now gone back to the 6-9 bi-pod.
So I'm looking for a cheek piece riser now, something handy that I can put on and off for both rifles 223 + 308, any ideas for the cheekpiece lads???

?
Dwighet your 300winmag is shooting realy good as is the 223 r15, 2 great guns.

jwshooter

just get a cheek ease and put a bullet holder over it.

the only time i ever shot a rifle competition tony won it i was third .both using 270s ,a IDS shoot .he is a bloody good rifle shot

Tackleberrywho

jwshooter wrote: »

just get a cheek ease and put a bullet holder over it.

the only time i ever shot a rifle competition tony won it i was third .both using 270s ,a IDS shoot .he is a bloody good rifle shot

He was beaten by a Biffo at a shoot with a .270 CZ same Tang

jwshooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

He was beaten by a Biffo at a shoot with a .270 CZ same Tang

every Biffo has there day