A short history of Irish Criminal Injustices and Inconsistencies

Overheal

Burning Down a Dealership - 3 Years, Suspended

Sex Offender - 7 Years, "Too sick to be in Jail"

Overcrowded Prison System

Stab Wife and Friend, 20 Previous Convictions - 3 Years, Suspended

Sexual assault of 12yr Old Girl - 12 Months, Suspended for 2 Years

Murder of 2 Polish Men via Screwdriver - Life Sentence

A Lack of Responsibility in Ireland? - I wonder to f*ck where people get the idea...

Beating Infant to Death - 4 Years, Imprisoned

Gardai call for 12 year Minimum for Assault of an AGS Officer

Dangerous Driving - 45 years off the road only after 10 previous convictions

Whats Wrong with our Legal System?

Edwin Curry - 189 Charges of Sexual Abuse - 4 Years

15yr old Consentual Sex with 14yr old girl - 5 Years pending (as of 09')

Sex Offender "Too Fat for Jail" - 2.5 Years Suspended

Child Pornography Archivist - 4 Years Suspended

Rape of Elderly woman - 25 Years, Imprisoned

Aggravated Assault and Robbery - 4 Years 'Detention'

Giving False Testimony, False Police Reports, Fabrication of Sexual Assault - No Sentence

Cocaine - 30, 30 and 25 Years

Are Irish Judges getting Worse? (2008)

Attempted Murder of Husband and her 3 children - 5 Suspended Sentences

Murder - 6 Years

Sack the Judges (2007)

Counts of Aggravated Assault (one on Traffic Warden with a Hammer) - Community Service

Robbing a Mobile Phone and Wallet - 13 Years, 4 Suspended
Manslaughter - 10 Years, 7 Suspended and 8 Years, 6 Suspended

And my personal Favorite Inconsistencies:

Mother Gets 6 Years for Drink Driving which resulted in 2 Deaths and 2 Injuries

Pleads Guilty of Dangerous Driving; Driving over Double the Speed Limit; Killing a Woman - 3 Years Suspended, 120hrs Community Service

Eddie Halvey - Fmr Rugby Star gets 7 Months Suspended for Drink Driving which resulted in death of Child



This is the part where I'd make a big rant to get your thumb out of your collective asses and reform your justice system but I know in 5 years time nothing will have changed.

laugh

Overheal wrote: »

This is the part where I'd make a big rant to get your thumb out of your collective asses and reform your justice system but I know in 5 years time nothing will have changed.

Why are you lecturing us on our justice system? lol

My name is URL

I knew it.. you're Michael Graham

Abrasax

May I add the continual jailing of people for selling the non-poisonous pollen or flower of a particular plant, for up to 10 years, as another longstanding injustice.

Overheal

laugh wrote: »

Why are you lecturing us on our justice system? lol

Why not.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I've been saying it for ages - crime report stories and scumbag-gets-off-lightly stories should have their own forum.

Mind you, there's be **** all left to discuss in AH...

laugh

Overheal wrote: »

Why not.

If you have enough money is the US you can get away with anything.

My name is URL

laugh wrote: »

If you have enough money is the US you can get away with anything.

About 1 in every 30 US citizens are behind bars, and crime rates still continue to dwarf those of Ireland

Overheal

laugh wrote: »

If you have enough money is the US you can get away with anything.

Uh huh.

laugh

My name is URL wrote: »

About 1 in every 30 US citizens are behind bars, and crime rates still continue to dwarf those of Ireland

Locking up all the poor people is a good idea I admit....

rovert

People more than likely with no legal experience giving thoughts on summarys of cases is all I see.

Overheal

My name is URL wrote: »

About 1 in every 30 US citizens are behind bars, and crime rates still continue to dwarf those of Ireland

Adult Citizens; or 2.5 million.

I don't necessarily agree with that extreme either; but this inconsistent sentencing for rape and manslaughter and other acts of violence needs to be stamped out.

laugh

Overheal wrote: »

Uh huh.

He lost all the other rich peoples money. Phil Spector, Robert Blake, O.J, Wacko Jacko ....

My name is URL

Overheal wrote: »

Adult Citizens; or 2.5 million.

I don't necessarily agree with that extreme either; but this inconsistent sentencing for rape and manslaughter and other acts of violence needs to be stamped out.

I do agree with you about inconsistency and the apparent injustices, but crime rates are lower here than in many other western nations. So that must suggest that something is working. A lot of recent cases were shown undue leniency though.. there's no getting away from that.

There are 2.3 million prisoners in the US.. 25% of the world's total incarcerated - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate

Overheal

Oh I will fully admit there are failings in the US justice system but I mean, a thing at a time.

The Crime rate is lower in Ireland either because of Lower Actual Crime, or Lower Catch and Conviction rates. More power to you.

But what really is taking the piss out of the Irish Legal System is not the Catch or the Conviction, its the Sentencing after Conviction. That responsibility lies solely with Judges. Judges which it is worth mentioning are Appointed, not Elected.

Kev_ps3

Its down to our weak liberal justice system.

starbelgrade

Who cares? The World Cup is on.

Cookie_Monster

Overheal wrote: »

This is the part where I'd make a big rant to get your thumb out of your collective asses and reform your justice system but I know in 5 years time nothing will have changed.

of course it won't. evenone in power in Ireland is corrupt, incompetant, useless or is connected with the right groups. There is no accountability or responsibility in any aspect of the countries governance or law :mad:

Cookie_Monster

rovert wrote: »

People more than likely with no legal experience giving thoughts on summarys of cases is all I see.

:rolleyes:

why do you need legal experience to comment on a case?
Its information in the public domain and everyone is entitled to an opinion on it regardless :mad:

My name is URL wrote: »

There are 2.3 million prisoners in the US.. 25% of the world's total incarcerated - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate

and if we could fit them all we'd have a higher percentage in prison too...

My name is URL

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

and if we could fit them all we'd have a higher percentage in prison too...

What makes you think that? Why do other European countries not have such high incarceration numbers as the US? It's easy to climb up on a high horse, even when you don't know how to ride it.. I guess anything is better than Ireland though, whatever the thing is

rovert

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

:rolleyes:

why do you need legal experience to comment on a case?
Its information in the public domain and everyone is entitled to an opinion on it regardless :mad:

As you dont know the law, just a guess mate?

Overheal

People more than likely with no legal experience giving thoughts on summarys of cases is all I see.

Translation: Society giving its opinion on a function of society.

I don't need to know the law to know if two teenagers go decided to make nookie, they shouldn't be in prison for it. I don't need to be a Big City Lawyer to see its also wrong to walk away from a murder charge. I also know its wrong to have no consequence visited upon you for lying to the legal system and getting an innocent man imprisoned for crimes he never committed.

Do you need to be a farmer to smell bullsh*t?

Cookie_Monster

rovert wrote: »

As you dont know the law, just a guess mate?

oh I know the law, just obviously not all the countless loopholes that seem to always appear

My name is URL wrote: »

What makes you think that? Why do other European countries not have such high incarceration numbers as the US? It's easy to climb up on a high horse, even when you don't know how to ride it.. I guess anything is better than Ireland though, whatever the thing is

if half the prisons in the country were empty do you honestly think the sentences being given now would be the norm? Prison time (even very short term) would be a much more common option. Simple economics and best use of resources, not high horse anything

rovert

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

oh I know the law, just obviously not all the countless loopholes that seem to always appear

In turn you dont know how and when these "loopholes" can be applied.

Cookie_Monster

rovert wrote: »

In turn you dont know how and when these "loopholes" can be applied.

by there very meaning of the term they shouldn't even exist anyway. Loopholes are nothing more than a failure or an expliotation of the language of the law, not its spirit.

My name is URL

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

oh I know the law, just obviously not all the countless loopholes that seem to always appear



if half the prisons in the country were empty do you honestly think the sentences being given now would be the norm? Prison time (even very short term) would be a much more common option. Simple economics and best use of resources, not high horse anything

It's not simple economics at all.. higher levels of incarceration are statistically shown not to lower overall crime rates

Cookie_Monster

My name is URL wrote: »

It's not simple economics at all.. higher levels of incarceration are statistically shown not to lower overall crime rates

yes maybe when the levels get a lot higher than they are now, but part of that is also the failing of the prison system such that gangs and crime rings can be run in the prisons with total ease (if news reports and documentaries of both Irish and US prisons are to be believed).
higher incarciration rates than we have now combined with a much more effective prison system and enviroment will lower crime rates. we don't have to get to high level like the US but some of the crimes in this country that do not get prison time are frankly astounding and worrying.

rovert

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

by there very meaning of the term they shouldn't even exist anyway. Loopholes are nothing more than a failure or an expliotation of the language of the law, not its spirit.

I guess you missed the quote marks I had around loop holes then.

Overheal

rovert wrote: »

I guess you missed the quote marks I had around loop holes then.

You mean the ones that made you sound like you were mocking the very idea that loopholes existed?

No I saw that.

rovert

Overheal wrote: »

You mean the ones that made you sound like you were mocking the very idea that loopholes existed?

No I saw that.

Overheal please dont start in another thread.

There are two types of loopholes:

Loopholes which are actually loopholes

Pieces of sound law which people consider as loopholes

Cookie_Monster

rovert wrote: »

I guess you missed the quote marks I had around loop holes then.

"maybe"

Overheal

rovert wrote: »

Overheal please dont start in another thread.

There are two types of loopholes:

Loopholes which are actually loopholes

Pieces of sound law which people consider as loopholes

Ok, please tell me the Sound Piece of Irish Law that allowed Eddie Halvey to get away with Vehicular Manslaughter with only a 7 month sentence he will never even have to do. In fact, has already expired.

rovert

Overheal wrote: »

Ok, please tell me the Sound Piece of Irish Law that allowed Eddie Halvey to get away with Vehicular Manslaughter with only a 7 month sentence he will never even have to do. In fact, has already expired.

Overheal Im going to leave this thread as it seems you want to start something with me with this strawman.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Judges which it is worth mentioning are Appointed, not Elected.

They are appointed by the president, on advice of the Cabinet, who are a democratically elected body.

Overheal

rovert wrote: »

Overheal Im going to leave this thread as it seems you want to start something with me with this strawman.

You can do whatever you want. I just want you to support your posts. I expect nothing less of anybody else I take an effort in conversing with on this site.

phasers

Were you looking for www.judges.ie by any chance?

Glitch in the matrix double post [mod delete plz]

Prof.Badass

No war on drugs- prisons free to deal with people who commit real crimes (you know, with victims rather than consenting adults).


Just saying.....

Capt'n Midnight

what percentage of drug dealers have received the mandatory 10 year sentence ?

re the Polish killing with a screwdriver how many previous convictions were there ??

Indubitable

Overheal wrote: »

But what really is taking the piss out of the Irish Legal System is not the Catch or the Conviction, its the Sentencing after Conviction. That responsibility lies solely with Judges. Judges which it is worth mentioning are Appointed, not Elected.

With the current system, people are not executed for crimes they didn't commit unlike some other countries.

But yes, there are some flaws.

Overheal

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

With the current system, people are not executed for crimes they didn't commit unlike some other countries.

But yes, there are some flaws.

If you want to make that deflection, sure.

But people are in fact convicted in Ireland for crimes they didn't commit:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055549383

Note the double irony of that case - even when convicted [falsely] of sexual assault? He still only got a suspended sentence...

Cap'n Midnight wrote:

the Polish killing with a screwdriver how many previous convictions were there ??

None from what i understand, David Curragh was 17 at the time of the murder.

Hank_Jones

Overheal wrote: »

A short history of Irish Criminal Injustices and Inconsistencies

Simpsons Pornography - 12 Months, Suspended 5 Years

Good thread, just wanted to point out that this one actually happened in England, not Ireland.

Overheal

I tried filtering those out - may have missed one or two. Edited and Removed.

Pdfile

Overheal wrote: »

Sex Offender - 7 Years, "Too sick to be in Jail"

bahahahahahah you'll never catch me !


*twists ends of his moustache*

moonpurple

top of your list would be this one

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0519/paczkowska.html

jailed for beating child....is the rte namby pamby headline

in real democracies it would read

jailed for battering small child to death

but mammies are part of holy mary right..
question them ..question holy mary right?

Could have been an excellent thread only for a few retarded posters..

Anyways, It's complete madness that this can happen.. Used to know a lad briefly who had 56 convictions and never got jail time.. For normal people, a conviction is the end of the world.. I know i'd lose my job.. But for these guys, they're dole isn't affected and life goes on.

aDeener

what can be done to stop this nonsense from continuing? do we need a stronger minister for justice or would the judges simply carry on in their ridiculous ways regardless?

Overheal

aDeener wrote: »

what can be done to stop this nonsense from continuing? do we need a stronger minister for justice or would the judges simply carry on in their ridiculous ways regardless?

I was thinking more like a Criminal Justice system that actually deals in Criminal Justice.

Ads' example I wager could be one of many. The System sees them do a crime, says "aww look you poor child you can't even afford nice things" and scoots them on their way with barely a slap on the wrist. "behave now!"

Unfortunately that appears to be the only consistency; the Blind forgiveness.

Cookie_Monster

aDeener wrote: »

what can be done to stop this nonsense from continuing? do we need a stronger minister for justice or would the judges simply carry on in their ridiculous ways regardless?

minimum sentences. don't need to be prison time for lesser offence, maybe large number of community service hours of fines. Removal of concurrent sentences.

Increased sentences for 2nd or subsiquent offences.
Oversight of judges and sentences, removing them if needed for a historty of light sentencing or inconsistancy

Capt'n Midnight

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

minimum sentences. don't need to be prison time for lesser offence, maybe large number of community service hours of fines. Removal of concurrent sentences.

Increased sentences for 2nd or subsiquent offences.
Oversight of judges and sentences, removing them if needed for a historty of light sentencing or inconsistancy

Make it quite clear that there is a zero tolerance policy on any crimes committed while on bail.

If a similar offence to one already committed then you automatically loose any goodwill on the charge you were on bail for, you can't claim remorse if you've then gone and committed another offense :rolleyes: And any sentence for the offence committed on bail cannot be concurrent with the offence you were on bail for.


minimum sentences and all that stuff should be at the judges discretion , we do need a separation BUT the judges should not be undermining the system by being inconsistent and overlinent in spite of the evidcence, people with 50 or 60 previous convictions already have proven beyond resonable doubt that the system does not work for them and either a new approach needs to be tried or they need to be kept away from the public, giving them a suspended sentence or one similar to the previous 50 doesn't solve anything and certainly isn't value for money

omahaid

I wonder, and maybe someone can tell me, if i want to examine the public sentences handed out by a certain judge for a certain crime, can i do this? What I am looking for is something like - you select a judge from a drop down list, then a crime (e.g. murder) and see the average sentence handed out.

Is there any public website where i can find out sentences handed out by judges? Or is it all down to local newspapers?