American small engines??

fonecrusher1

Heres something ive been wondering about. Why don't the yanks have smaller more powerful engines?
Aside from all the oh americans can't build cars banter, seriously what is the problem?
I know that petrol is cheaper over there & its a tradition to build big capacity engines & all that but is it that they just don't know how to squeeze more power out of 2.0 to 3.0 liter engines?

Is there such thing as a powerful 2Ltr or even smaller engine that comes from the usa?

johnos1984

Cost really. The same reason the interiors are rubbish

JHMEG

The V8 is a symbol of American engineering, with 6 being seen as a kind of a German thing, and 4 as a Japanese thing.

You can't bate an American V8. Some of the awesomest sounding engines made.

si_guru

GM Quad 4 and Willy's Go Devil... both 2.2 litres

...but you make a good point.

si_guru

JHMEG wrote: »

You can't bate an American V8. Some of the awesomest sounding engines made.

What about a Ferrari V8?

JHMEG

si_guru wrote: »

What about a Ferrari V8?

Nope.

si_guru

A Triumph Stag? (I am just trying to get you to love an EU V8!)

johnos1984

Rover 3500 V8

Voodoomelon

It is a bit of a joke, in New York (in 08 when I was there) all the taxis had big 3.5l V8s and they're sitting in the worst traffic on the planet all day long. WTF is the point?!

Terrontress

johnos1984 wrote: »

Rover 3500 V8

It's an American design, innit?

johnos1984

Terrontress wrote: »

It's an American design, innit?

True I suppose. I think it was a Buick one off the top of my head

Then the Stag as it was a different engine. Good old British Leyland and their disdain for economies of scale.

I'm trying to think if there was a French V8?

Kxiii

Love the sound of a Ferrari v8. F355 at full howl is fantastic.

But still no match for that rumble of big Yank v8. Got passed by a hot rod today looked like a ford coupe could still hear it half a block away.

How come the Americans seem to hate diesel?

si_guru

johnos1984 wrote: »

True I suppose. I think it was a Buick one off the top of my head

Then the Stag as it was a different engine. Good old British Leyland and their disdain for economies of scale.

I'm trying to think if there was a French V8?

The Stag was a 3.0 V8... essentially two 1500 Dolomite engines.. the same slant engine found in 1970's SAABs.

johnos1984

Kxiii wrote: »

How come the Americans seem to hate diesel?

Emmissions regulation and the fact it costs more than petrol.

There was diesels sold in the 70's during the fuel crisis but they were dogs. Converted petrol blocks to run on diesel

JHMEG

johnos1984 wrote: »

Rover 3500 V8

Buick designed. Rover bought the rights and made it their own.

There are good non-American V8s. But when it comes to V8s, the Americans rock. Chevy 350, greatest V8 of all time.

Kxiii

Terrontress wrote: »

It's an American design, innit?

Was original but they thought it was too small and they didn't like that it was an aluminium engine.

si_guru

Kxiii wrote: »

Love the sound of a Ferrari v8. F355 at full howl is fantastic.

But still no match for that rumble of big Yank v8. Got passed by a hot rod today looked like a ford coupe could still hear it half a block away.

How come the Americans seem to hate diesel?

..lack of taste? And as exibit #1 I site Country Music.

si_guru

Kxiii wrote: »

Was original but they thought it was too small and they didn't like that it was an aluminium engine.

ALUMINUN..... don't even get me started on that!

JHMEG

Kxiii wrote: »

How come the Americans seem to hate diesel?

They don't hate diesel. They apply emissions standards equally to both petrol and diesel. We don't.

Our current standards for diesel are in many ways worse than our standards for petrol were 20 years ago.

fonecrusher1

Kxiii wrote: »

Was original but they thought it was too small and they didn't like that it was an aluminium engine.

To be fair to the brits it was a seriously advanced engine for the time.

Kxiii

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

To be fair to the brits it was a seriously advanced engine for the time.

Agreed and thats why they use it for forty years

johnos1984

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

To be fair to the brits it was a seriously advanced engine for the time.

It's not long out of production either.

I've never worked on one but I've been told by some that they were bullet proof while others say they suffered HGF after a long journey due to the unequal cooling of the engine metals. Would like to know more on that?

fonecrusher1

si_guru wrote: »

GM Quad 4 and Willy's Go Devil... both 2.2 litres

...but you make a good point.

Ah for feck sake the willy's thing is ancient. But the GM engine is very interesting alright.

A seriously powerful normally aspirated 4 cylinder engine from the states??? It does exist afterall. It was axed in 2002 though. In the late eighties Most americans probably thought a high power 2.2 ltr engine was witchcraft.:rolleyes:

si_guru

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Ah for feck sake the willy's thing is ancient. But the GM engine is very interesting alright.

A seriously powerful normally aspirated 4 cylinder engine from the states??? It does exist afterall. It was axed in 2002 though. In the late eighties Most americans probably thought a high power 2.2 ltr engine was witchcraft.:rolleyes:

I found 2 more... the Chrsyler Neon SRT 4 2.4... used in the PT Cruiser too. and the Chevy Vega Cosworth... 2.0 litres.

Pdfile

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Heres something ive been wondering about. Why don't the yanks have smaller more powerful engines?
Aside from all the oh americans can't build cars banter, seriously what is the problem?
I know that petrol is cheaper over there & its a tradition to build big capacity engines & all that but is it that they just don't know how to squeeze more power out of 2.0 to 3.0 liter engines?

Is there such thing as a powerful 2Ltr or even smaller engine that comes from the usa?

buick gnx had a ish liter turbo... very rare and famous..


also theirs the dodge neons SRT lump ( though its bmw design... )

eco tec engines and zetec engines are popular their on econemy cars ( though their european design.... )

bmw535d

it amazes me how little power they manage to get out of those big engines. they need to put some jap dudes under the bonnet to weld on some turbos etc, then they could reduce the size of their engines.

samsemtex

bmw535d wrote: »

it amazes me how little power they manage to get out of those big engines. they need to put some jap dudes under the bonnet to weld on some turbos etc, then they could reduce the size of their engines.

Why would they want lower cc in favour of turbos? What is the logic there?

They dont want big power all the time. Do you really think they are incapable of getting big power out of their engines? I could weld on a large turbo to an engine, i dont really see how that would make a better engine. A small cc engine drives completely different to a large lazy v8. N/A engines are much much nicer to drive than a turbo.

America is a car loving nation and they like engines that are torquey, smooth and sound good. And thats exactly what a a large cc V8 does.

JHMEG

^ That post pretty much sums it up.

CarMuppet

Yeah it's in the blood... on a recent visit to a company in Chicago I met two guys there that just bought 'import cars', as they called them. One was a Hyundai something or other, the second guy bought an Audi Q7... both V8 petrol automatic.

robtri

the deep rumble of an american V8 is a glorious sound....

Euopean V8's seem to screech like they are struggling to contain their power...

both are amazing sounds, even though they are both v8's two completely differnt engines.. cant really compare them

CarMuppet

robtri wrote: »

the deep rumble of an american V8 is a glorious sound....

Euopean V8's seem to screech like they are struggling to contain their power...

both are amazing sounds, even though they are both v8's two completely differnt engines.. cant really compare them

Yeah you're dead right. The euro boxes tend to have more bhp per litre than the new world lazyboy carts.

Haven driven a rental Corvette recently on a trip I'd rather have a DB9 any day! Or just even an S-type just for the refinement. But then I'm getting old.

af_thefragile

The only american V8 I like is the Hemi.
Dodge Charger, Plymouth Roadrunner/Barracuda, the new Dodge Challenger SRT8.
They're the only american cars I'ld get.
Not a fan of Fords and Chevys. Love Dodge on the other hand as they're a bit more mental.

And american muscle is great but the cars are awful. If they'ld put an american engine in a car built upto european standards (DeTomaso Mangusta!!), then it'ld be something to crave over.

Still rather have a Lamborghini, Aston or Porsche anyday over an american muscle car.

samsemtex

af_thefragile wrote: »

The only american V8 I like is the Hemi.
Dodge Charger, Plymouth Roadrunner/Barracuda, the new Dodge Challenger SRT8.
They're the only american cars I'ld get.
Not a fan of Fords and Chevys. Love Dodge on the other hand as they're a bit more mental.

And american muscle is great but the cars are awful. If they'ld put an american engine in a car built upto european standards (DeTomaso Mangusta!!), then it'ld be something to crave over.

Still rather have a Lamborghini, Aston or Porsche anyday over an american muscle car.

I dont get a comments like this. A american muscle car like a Mustang GT500 costs about €35,000 in the states. A Zr1 costs the equivilent of about €70,000. A lamborghini or an aston costs about €150,000 minimum even in the states.

GTE

The whole American market seems to be a bit bonkers when compared to over here.

For example VW only seem to give the 2.5 litre 5 cylinder petrol engine when us Eurofolk get 1.4turbos and the likes.

I asked over on TDIclub why this was and I think it was put down to the Americans being used to it and not willing to accept change or not trusting the smaller engines. Fuel cost too.

The same can be said about the argument that the Irish market is full of bog basic cars for some reason. Though I dont subscribe to that but there could be general things like that out there in each market.

To them we probably seem bonkers.

JJJJNR

JHMEG wrote: »

Buick designed. Rover bought the rights and made it their own.

There are good non-American V8s. But when it comes to V8s, the Americans rock. Chevy 350, greatest V8 of all time.

LOL are you serious... I think you forgot the Ford FE 428... THE BEST V8 ENGINE EVER MADE.

salad dodger

bbk wrote: »

The same can be said about the argument that the Irish market is full of bog basic cars for some reason. Though I dont subscribe to that but there could be general things like that out there in each market.

It's my understanding that the reason the irish market is full of bog standard cars is that the manufacturers are keeping the cost of the car as low as possible to balance the VRT and so keeping the overall price of the cars relatively reasonable.

Voodoomelon

That, and the fact that the Irish are obsessed with year and not spec.

fonecrusher1

Voodoomelon wrote: »

That, and the fact that the Irish are obsessed with year and not spec.

Very true.

I fella i used to work with thought i was mad when i was driving around in 00 subaru lagacy b4 because he had an obsession with getting a new sh!t-boring 1.4 astra every year like clockwork.
The Legacy was a hoor on petrol but what a car. Happy days.

Lifes too short to never stray beyond the standard econoboxes.

GTE

Voodoomelon wrote: »

That, and the fact that the Irish are obsessed with year and not spec.

You and the man who doesnt like salad have good points. I think the VooDoo's one about the Irish being obsessed with year and not spec is similar to the USA not liking small engines.

ShadowHearth

JHMEG wrote: »

Buick designed. Rover bought the rights and made it their own.

There are good non-American V8s. But when it comes to V8s, the Americans rock. Chevy 350, greatest V8 of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKpZUhgq2zY

tell me this does not sound good lol!

I think americans got theyr fashion fo big engines in 60s? you know... economics booming, golden age. So many cars were made to look like space ships, big engines etc... It was theyr way to be showing off! big god damn v8!

and i have to admit, there are nice sounding and more powerfull euro V8 out there, but i would still prefer american V8 just becouse of the fun factor they give!

Joe 90

af_thefragile wrote: »

The only american V8 I like is the Hemi.
Dodge Charger, Plymouth Roadrunner/Barracuda, the new Dodge Challenger SRT8.
They're the only american cars I'ld get.
Not a fan of Fords and Chevys. Love Dodge on the other hand as they're a bit more mental.

And american muscle is great but the cars are awful. If they'ld put an american engine in a car built upto european standards (DeTomaso Mangusta!!), then it'ld be something to crave over.

Still rather have a Lamborghini, Aston or Porsche anyday over an american muscle car.

What about an Ultima? http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/Content.aspx?f=gtrintro
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/TERRYB%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png[/IMG]

Moses7

New Ford Ecoboost engines are pretty impressive. Even the V6 Mustang packs now over 300 hp.

SouperComputer

The reason you dont see many "small" powerful engines is that there is the perception that you cant make a small, powerful and reliable engine. It's a really hard sell to the American public. 4 cylinders are not that common and generally frowned upon, and turbos aren't a big thing either, its all superchargers couple that with a dislike of "4bangers" and it starts to make sense. It doesnt help that a lot of their 4 cylinder attempts were pretty horrendus (Quad4). For comparison, a Celica (proununced Sell-ik-a) is a beater\student car over here for example. For better or for worse, thats the way it is right now. People want their big engines and also want use less fuel, so now you see stupid big V8 Hybrid trucks with the ability to "drop" cylinders when not needed. Mad Ted, just mad.

Most of the roadgoing V8's over here do nothing for me to be honest, they just sound like overgrown lawnmower engines (Both low specific-output OHV engines so that makes sense) but then I hear them everyday now so I guess that takes away from it. A fully race tuned 350ci at 9K RPM though, is music to my ears. Magic.

Weird, before I moved to the US I thought I'd get a big V8, ended up getting a T5 and a T6 haha. V8 Isnt really novel here I guess.

voodoomelon wrote:

It is a bit of a joke, in New York (in 08 when I was there) all the taxis had big 3.5l V8s and they're sitting in the worst traffic on the planet all day long. WTF is the point?!

This won't make you feel any better, but that was a 4.6L at the absolute smallest. Whats the point? Well in this case you could argue that they cover silly, silly miles without much maintenance. A lot of the Taxis already served as cop cars. The money "saved" in maintenance is probably offset by the fuel cost but anyway.......

SouperComputer

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Lifes too short to never stray beyond the standard econoboxes.

Shhh, don't say that too loud. The econoboxeaters make nice cars feasible for sensible folk like us

.Longshanks.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

It is a bit of a joke, in New York (in 08 when I was there) all the taxis had big 3.5l V8s and they're sitting in the worst traffic on the planet all day long. WTF is the point?!

A NY cab driver once told me he is lucky to get 200 miles out of a full tank of this Lincoln

grudgebringer

Gimme a nice V10 Dodge Viper I have trawled Dodge dealerships anytime I am in the US to look for one of these beasts but have never gotten to drive one, have seen a couple over there though, a very impressive car, seems they also modified a GTS-R in 2005 (Zakspeed) for racing as they needed to limit engine capacity to 6200 cc so they created a V8 version of the Viper!

fonecrusher1

Moses7 wrote: »

Even the V6 Mustang packs now over 300 hp.

And so it should being a 3.7 litre engine.

Honda were producing naturally aspirated 1.8 litre vtec engines in the mid nineties that were putting out almost 200bhp.

opinion guy

samsemtex wrote: »

Why would they want lower cc in favour of turbos? What is the logic there?

They dont want big power all the time. Do you really think they are incapable of getting big power out of their engines? I could weld on a large turbo to an engine, i dont really see how that would make a better engine. A small cc engine drives completely different to a large lazy v8. N/A engines are much much nicer to drive than a turbo.

America is a car loving nation and they like engines that are torquey, smooth and sound good. And thats exactly what a a large cc V8 does.

Call me crazy....and I may be totally wrong.....but in addition to they above....I think the fact that sooooo many american cars are automatic, and have been for soo long is a factor. Any cars I've driven over there have had such badly ratioed gears you simply needed a big torquey engine to deal with the mentally deficient computer's gear changes.

Big Nasty

This thread should be merged with the V8 Sounds thread - says it all!

SouperComputer

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

And so it should being a 3.7 litre engine.

Honda were producing naturally aspirated 1.8 litre vtec engines in the mid nineties that were putting out almost 200bhp.

RuhRoh, its turning into a VTEC thread. For everyday driving, it's the area that below the curve that matters most, not the peak.

fonecrusher1

SouperComputer wrote: »

RuhRoh, its turning into a VTEC thread. For everyday driving, it's the area that below the curve that matters most, not the peak.

Eh?...its turning into a vtec thread? Slightly dramatic, its the first time its been mentioned in this thread!!!

All im saying is getting 300bhp out of a big 3.7 litre engine is hardly an engineering feat these days.