The Irish dating Scene

jurgenscarl

gavney1 wrote: »

OP,

I'm a guy, and usually I would have always tried to go down the route of the "traditional dating" route - i.e. meet a girl on a night out, then meet her for a drink etc. or do something just the two of us

BUT I have met girls in the past who just seem to find the idea bizarre!
Like, I'd suggest to meet them for a drink, but they want to meet on a night out with all their friends.

I'm not a 100% sure why - it seems a bit teenagerish.

My guess is one of two reasons
1. They feel nervous and would feel more comfortable with their friends and plus maybe it's more fun?
2. They want to get their friends opinions of the guy they're meeting?

I can relate to the first reason. But at the same time, you don't really get a chance to get to know the person. I find friends can be a bit distracting and you end up barely talking to the person you came out to see.

A girl has to fit you into her life.
She's not going to give up her friends just for you.
If you want a relationship with a girl you have to win the approval of her social group.
Otherwise forget about it.

Anyways you should only date women you are already having sex with.

TitoPuente

jurgenscarl wrote: »

A girl has to fit you into her life.
She's not going to give up her friends just for you.
If you want a relationship with a girl you have to win the approval of her social group.
Otherwise forget about it.

My God, what books have you been reading?

jurgenscarl wrote: »

Anyways you should only date women you are already having sex with.

Are you saying that you shouldn't date a woman unless you've already had sex with her? Eh....

BumbleB

jurgenscarl wrote: »

The courtship ritual between men and women is relatively simple to explain.

Put an attractive woman in a room of 100 men and without her even speaking to them at all they will want to have sex with her.
Women are spoilt for choice.
Women therefore are subject to endless unwanted sexual advances from men to the point that the more attractive a woman is, the more bored and unaffected she is going to be and the higher her standards are going to be before a man can have sex with her.
This means that the onus is entirely on the man to make the first approach.
In the ugly the attraction sleeps and in the beautiful it is wide awake.

I think its a million times easier to pull a really good looking girl than an average one.:)

jurgenscarl

I think its a million times easier to pull a really good looking girl than an average one.

Only partly true.

A goodlooking woman is usually far more sexual than a plain jane.

However before a goodlooking women agrees to have sex with a man, he has to meet her exacting standards first.

Attractive women have no problems meeting men who do because they are bombarded with a blizzard of propositions from zeros and heroes alike.

All they have to do is recognise the heroes and ditch the zeros.

The plainer the girl, the more shrewish and moralistic she is going to be, probably because she has a chip on her shoulder because men pass her over.

A really ugly woman is not going to believe it if a goodlooking man propositioned her.

She would probably boost her ego by rejecting him because she would never believe it would be possible.

The uglier the woman or the more shy the man the less likely they will ever get laid unless they hook up out of desperation.

At least when the priesthood or convents were fashionable they could rescue their bruised egos.

Not now though.

Sad really.

BumbleB

jurgenscarl wrote: »

Only partly true.

A goodlooking woman is usually far more sexual than a plain jane.

However before a goodlooking women agrees to have sex with a man, he has to meet her exacting standards first.

Attractive women have no problems meeting men who do because they are bombarded with a blizzard of propositions from zeros and heroes alike.

All they have to do is recognise the heroes and ditch the zeros.

The plainer the girl, the more shrewish and moralistic she is going to be, probably because she has a chip on her shoulder because men pass her over.

A really ugly woman is not going to believe it if a goodlooking man propositioned her.

She would probably boost her ego by rejecting him because she would never believe it would be possible.

The uglier the woman or the more shy the man the less likely they will ever get laid unless they hook up out of desperation.

At least when the priesthood or convents were fashionable they could rescue their bruised egos.

Not now though.

Sad really.

I dont agree with you at all .From what I've seen in nightclubs really good looking women dont get that much advances from guys unless they are very extrovert.

I don't use a textbook to figure out how to engage the opposite sex ,nothing is cut and dried like that, life is full of variables.

TitoPuente

BumbleB wrote: »

I don't use a textbook to figure out how to engage the opposite sex ,nothing is cut and dried like that, life is full of variables.

Totally. I don't think PUA logic is ever really apt in the real world. It can only really be applied to pretentious nightclubs where the majority of clientele are either vacuous, materialistic blondes with too much fake tan or pissed-up idiots looking to catch their umpteenth dose of the clap.

HavingCrack

Hey OP

Basically Irish people of both genders have a severe problem of dating outside of the pub/club scene-I'd presume it's something to do with our relationship with alcohol but I'm no expert. Personally speaking I much prefer to approach a girl in a more regular environment eg college or a house party and ask for a number there and meet up for a date to see how we get on rather than blindly hooking up in clubs drunkenly. Much more pleasant and natural as I find alcohol dents my charms with the ladies

unregistered wrote: »

I'm tired of the argument that Irish women expect Irish men to do all the running, and they expect everything to be handed to them on a plate. I was always one to take the bull by the horns and ask men out, initiate contact, arrange dates etc. End result was that texts and calls started drying up. These men didn't even have the basic decency to say it was over.

So I stopped initiating things with men.

There are very, very few men who will accept a woman being so forward. The reality is that most women would like to initiate things, but they either intuitively know or learn the hard way (like me!) that men do not like to be chased.

A lot of men get fed up being rejected and played by women also but they don't have the safety net a woman does to fall back on. A man who gives up on dating is effectively sidelined for good while an atttractive woman can sit back and the guys will keep coming.

Hence a lot of men end up in relationships or married to women they settled for rather than really wanted to be with. A sad state of affairs to be honest so if all that PUA stuff helps men out I'm all for it.

jurgenscarl wrote: »

A girl has to fit you into her life.
She's not going to give up her friends just for you.
If you want a relationship with a girl you have to win the approval of her social group.
Otherwise forget about it.

Anyways you should only date women you are already having sex with.

You've clearly been reading some how to date women book or seduction psycology for dummies or something because your language is far too similar to the type the PUA guys use for you to have come up on your own. Perhaps you study this area of psycology but I doubt it very much.

Your point makes no sense by the way. I'm interested in the girl not her friends and I have no desire to meet them until we have a relationship going-whats the point. A girl tried to pull the lets meet up in a club with our friends trick before and it just reeked of insecurity to me. She came across as a person incapable of being on her own which says needy to me and is a big no no. I went along with it anyway and her friends turned out to be utter spanners so that was the end of that.

Surely the point of dating is to weed out the women you're interested in having sex with from those you don't??? Unless you have some magic recipe that makes women instantly jump into bed with you (I'm leaving one night stands out of this because they're a different kettle of fish actually) surely a date is going to have to occur at some stage.

HavingCrack

TitoPuente wrote: »

Totally. I don't think PUA logic is ever really apt in the real world. It can only really be applied to pretentious nightclubs where the majority of clientele are either vacuous, materialistic blondes with too much fake tan or pissed-up idiots looking to catch their umpteenth dose of the clap.

This isn't true. PUA actually advises men to stay away from nightclusb as much as possible and make most of their approaches in supermarkets, bookshops, the park-whatever. Women are generally more open and less on their guard than they would be in a bar environment.

PUA gets a lot of criticism (some deserved) but on the whole its about teaching men how to be the confident, outgoing, charming men women like which has to be a good thing in my book.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. It's helped me a lot

TitoPuente

HavingCrack wrote: »

Don't knock it until you've tried it. It's helped me a lot

I have no intention of trying it. Unfortunately the number of people that post on boards, citing this PUA nonsense makes me cringe and leaves me utterly cold. If it's helped a few genuine guys to become more confident then that's great. Sadly, from what I can see, it turns most guys from hapless losers into these psychobabble spouting idiots with a completely false sense of what they think is 'confidence' and a view of women that comes only second to hardcore porn in its objectivity.

PUA is for losers. And that's a fact.

jurgenscarl

Your point makes no sense by the way. I'm interested in the girl not her friends and I have no desire to meet them until we have a relationship going-whats the point. A girl tried to pull the lets meet up in a club with our friends trick before and it just reeked of insecurity to me. She came across as a person incapable of being on her own which says needy to me and is a big no no. I went along with it anyway and her friends turned out to be utter spanners so that was the end of that.

Women aren't blow up dollies. They have a social life and a social circle.
If you like the girl you must at some stage meet with her friends and they have to like you. You don't necessarily have to like them or become best buddies as such. A girl is going to get bored very very quickly if being with you means that her friends are out of picture. Girls who have boyfriends like to bring them along and show them off to their girl mates who bring along their boyfriends. Couples go out with other couples.

When couples get married they don't just keep to themselves either, they have the same friends they had when they were single, they go to each other's weddings, their kids play with each other when the adults come around to visit.

To be honest what you are talking about is your own neediness and insecurity.
If you are going out with a girl, her friends are part of the package whether you like it or not. She talks to them about what is going right or wrong in your relationship and looks for advice. Her friends' opinions on you good or bad can decide whether she stays with you or not.

Unless you have some magic recipe that makes women instantly jump into bed with you (I'm leaving one night stands out of this because they're a different kettle of fish actually) surely a date is going to have to occur at some stage.

The date is the reward you give to a girl after sex.

The date should never be the bribe to get sex.

If a girl likes you and you take her to dinner, for drink, to a movie etc. and then have sex with her she didn't have sex with you because of the date. She had sex with you because she likes you.

It's best to have sex with a girl you like as soon as possible - preferably the first day you met her.

TitoPuente

If there was a degree in stating the bloody obvious. Of course you're not supposed to deprive a woman you're seeing of her friends. If that's what PUA school thought you... well at least you're catching up I suppose.

gavney1

my understanding of the PUA stuff is that in the wrong hands it can be used a sleazy bag of tricks to seduce as many women as possible. However, I have read what is considered "The Bible" among PUAs - The Game by Neil Strauss.
And it seems that there's lots of guy trying it out who are decent, happy people and who are perhaps confident in other aspects of their life, but when it comes to women they just can't convey that.

PUA motives typically aren't sleazy. It's often about just getting your foot in the door with a woman. You can then show her that you're a decent, likeable, funny, intelligent person.

The usual response is "well, just BE yourself". But we all know how difficult it is to approach people in bars. You can be yourself once you get chatting to someone - but most people aren't Mr. Sociable and only talk to people when they're drunk, so most of us need a bit of help and guidance.

And there's plenty of other things about this PUA stuff that's helpful, like stressing the importance of good style, mannerisms, etc..

And the thing about chatting to a girls friends is true. How many guys have got chatting to a nice girl in a bar, and you're both keen on each other until her friend drags her away. If you had included both friends from the start, the friend wouldn't have felt the need to drag her away. I understand your point Tito, that you should be clear about you motives and focus to the girl you're interested in, but girls are (understandably) very protective of their friends, so you need to show both that you're a decent person. That may seem obvious in theory, but I think most guys will forget that when they're out on the town

It isn't about manipulation, it's about understanding people (including yourself and people's perception of you and your actions) and social situations

Anyway, just want to say that I think this PUA stuff gets a bad rep. But it's just like with anything - if placed in the wrong hands, it can be a bad thing.

jurgenscarl

If you are going out to pubs and clubs you shouldn't have a plan as such. You should be aiming to have fun with your mates and you should aim to be as comfortable as if you were in your own living room.
If you are thinking purely about getting a girl, you will be putting pressure on yourself and how you think is going to be reflected in your body language and girls will pick up on it right away.
The guys who stand around in bars protectively holding their pints and looking around like they are lost are the guys who never get women.
The guys who are smiling, laughing and joking, who go around from group to group shaking guys hands, kissing girls on both cheeks, clinking glasses, getting to know both guys and girls regardless of whether they are complete strangers and who go onto the dance floor and dance with confidence instead of jumping around like a gorilla and enjoy the music and the craic are the guys who get the women.
Say something original.
Ask a girl something completely absurd like 'Do you think the potato crop will fail this year?' or 'I need you opinion. Do you think it's ok for a guy to keep pictures of his ex on the wall of his bedroom where he has sex with his girlfriend? Would you be comfortable with that if it was your boyfriend?' or say 'I like your necklace. My sister got one just like in the cornflakes box. But it looks good on you all the same.' You can make something up on the spot.
If you act like you own the club, act like you know everybody, the whole club or pub will wonder who the hell you are and they will want to know you, they will want to party with you and women will want to sleep with you.
Pua theory says that you should 'open' as many 'sets' as possible.
In fact what really should do is treat the entire pub or club as one big 'set' and 'open' them all.
Once you stop caring what anybody thinks and stop trying too hard your social life will explode into life and meeting someone will be as effortless as breathing.

The Recliner

Off topic thread goo bye bye

This is not a PUA discussion forum