Stag hunting bill vote

Sparks

Just seen on breakingnews.ie:

Govt wins first vote on stag hunting legislation
29/06/2010 - 18:28:17

The Government has won the first in a series of votes on legislation to ban stag hunting by a margin of four.

Independent TDs Michael Lowry, Jackie Healy Rae and Joe Behan voted against the Government, but all of Fianna Fail's backbenchers supported the Bill.

However two Fianna Fáil backbenchers were asked to leave a meeting of the party this evening after failing to turn up in the Dáil chamber for the vote.

After TDs returned to the Parliamentary Party meeting this evening, Deputies Mattie McGrath and Christy O'Sullivan were reprimanded and asked to leave.

Sparks

That's not the final vote, by the way, they have a few of these as they go through the Bill. They're in the middle of one right now in fact, over on the live feed.

Sparks

The final vote on passing the bill seems to be happening now...

Sparks

Bill passed, 75-72.
Margin of only three votes, and I could have sworn that a FF backbencher just voted against the party whip there.

...and they've called for a non-electronic vote, which could take a minute or two.

BornToKill

Never mind.

ANXIOUS

Sparks wrote: »

Bill passed, 75-72.
Margin of only three votes, and I could have sworn that a FF backbencher just voted against the party whip there.

...and they've called for a non-electronic vote, which could take a minute or two.

Yeah someone did i seen it turn red, but then i also seen someone on the fg side go green.

Sparks

The non-electronic vote is now underway...

Sparks

And the vote is 75 - 71 by non-electronic means, and now they're into point of order arguments. Apparently Matty McGrath voted by electronic means against the bill but not on paper.

The bill is now past the Dail and goes on to the Seanad.

BryanL

thanks Sparks

bunny shooter

Thanks Sparks

I think this is a bad day for country sports :mad:

It looks like the thin end of the wedge has been driven in :mad:

A good fight against it and the Government have a bloody nose though

The only good thing that might come from this is it will consign the Green's to a well deserved departure from Irish politics very soon

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

The bill is now past the Dail and goes on to the Seanad.

Yay!

jwshooter

this a terrible day for rural ireland ,3% voted for the greens and they had the power to do this.

god help the next FF/GP person that calls tomy door

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

this a terrible day for rural ireland ,3% voted for the greens and they had the power to do this.

The problem wasn't really the 3% who voted for the greens, so much as it was the 42% who voted for Fianna Fail. The greens are just FF's lightning rod in all of this, getting mad at them is about as useful as getting annoyed at the hurley instead of the mugger beating you with it.

Dusty87

Did you take up hurling today or something sparks? Or planning on taking one to someone??:p

Sparks

Visited the nephews this weekend Dusty. Twin six-year-olds from Kilkenny. I have developed a very healthy fear of hurleys at this point...

meathstevie

Who's next on the animal rights hit list ?

Dusty87

Sparks wrote: »

Visited the nephews this weekend Dusty. Twin six-year-olds from Kilkenny. I have developed a very healthy fear of hurleys at this point...

Had the nose busted by the brother with a hurley. He was 4, me 14 and asleep. I can understand.;)

Tackleberrywho

bluewolf wrote: »

Yay!

The anti hunting group is on another thread

Dusty87

meathstevie wrote: »

Who's next on the animal rights hit list ?

The dog breeding bill next week

Sparks

meathstevie wrote: »

Who's next on the animal rights hit list ?

Dog breeders, isn't it? Or was that bill earlier last week?

poxman

I see Mary Wallace voted for the bill. She spent the last few months going to RISE meetings stating she was going to vote against it. Bit two faced - might find re-election a bit of a problem next time round !

Sparks

poxman wrote: »

I see Mary Wallace voted for the bill. She spent the last few months going to RISE meetings stating she was going to vote against it.

See, that's the kind of information that ought to be made very public.

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

The anti hunting group is on another thread

And the report post button is over there on the left of every post, marked ...

meathstevie

Mary Wallace being two faced ? You may reconsider that, she's just being a good soldier of destiny and keeping with the party tradition of two fingers to her constituancy and safeguarding ( at least she thinks she is ) her seat and all the benefits it brings.

In all fairness now, did anyone honestly believe that there were Fianna Fail TD's out there willing to scuttle to good ship government over this bill ?

jwshooter

im just having two lovely sea trout that i cot ,in a river just down the road will this be next

convert

Sparks wrote: »

See, that's the kind of information that ought to be made very public.

Mary Wallace was one of the seven FF TDs who spoke out against the Bill in the Dáil during the debate last Thursday evening. Mattie McGrath also criticised it. I've no time for someone like her who openly supports the RISE! Campaign against the Bill but yet hasn't the courage to vote against her party for something she supposedly believes in.

Dusty87

what do we do now folks? Weve all sent emails already

terminator2

AINE BRADY FF didnt even reply to any of my emails , cant wait till she comes a knocking

terminator2

in all fairness lads there were 1500 people at the rally in trim on saturday .....there should have been 15000 ........remember the stable door:mad::mad:

bunny shooter

terminator2 wrote: »

in all fairness lads there were 1500 people at the rally in trim on saturday .....there should have been 15000 ........remember the stable door:mad::mad:

And you honestly think it would have made a difference :rolleyes:

The only thing that will come from this is that FF, FG & Labour will know that these issues will cost them votes and hopefully none of them will take the Greens into a coalition again

cursai

Very disappointed in Labour party vote today. Lost a lot of credibility for supporters. A very cynical u-turn move to keep rural votes and appease the hunting lobby. Glad it went through despite the pandering Labour party. Boooooooo!!!!!

SeaFields

Turkeys are not going to vote for Christmas lads. Mary Wallace illustrated perfectly the lack of conviction in Irish politics.

The greens will be gone forever after the next election. Hopefully enough damage will be done to ff to put them on the sideline for a long time - but as 25% approx. of the population still say they will vote for them (every poll) this may be overly optimistic.

We can only hope the Greens wont do more untold damage before they go.

doyle61

the dog breeding bill is the more important one as far as im concerned. lads if that one gets through god help every country sport.......we may as well pack up and move to another country:mad:

Sparks

Spotted by Born To Kill on the Independent website:

Expulsion over stag-hunting row
Tuesday June 29 2010
The Government's shaky grip on power was further loosened after Fianna Fail expelled a rebel backbencher from its parliamentary ranks for voting against a controversial ban on stag-hunting.

The animal welfare legislation, which has sparked furious rows in the Dail over recent weeks, was narrowly pushed through by a majority of 75 to 71 votes.

Fianna Fail's Mattie McGrath initially voted against the Wildlife Amendment Bill 2010 during an electronic ballot before abstaining when a second "walk-through" poll was called.

Government chief whip John Curran confirmed the Tipperary South TD was thrown out of the parliamentary party for his defiance.

"Mattie McGrath wasn't in a position to support the government, and the rules of the parliamentary party are quite straight forward: where you vote against the government the whip is automatically deemed to be removed," he said.

Mr McGrath is understood to have raised concerns with his colleagues that the legislation would lead to further attempts to target rural pursuits. He now joins three other rebel backbencher Fianna Fail TDs - Jimmy Devins, Eamon Scanlon and Jim McDaid - whose support for the Government can no longer be counted upon in the Dail.

Christy O'Sullivan, Fianna Fail Cork South West TD, who had missed an earlier vote on the legislation, later rowed in behind the government after frantic last minute talks with party colleagues in the corridors of Leinster House.

Mr Curran said he will be talking to Mr O'Sullivan on Wednesday about why he missed the earlier vote.

The chief whip said he will also be meeting with Independent TDs Jackie Healey Rae, Kerry South, and Michael Lowry, Tipperary North - who usually support the government but who voted against them in the stag-hunting bill.

Both hold deals with the government for commitments to their constituencies in return for support.

madmac187

Quite frankly, Gormley is ruining rural Ireland. First of all he wants to ban Stag hunting, ban anyone using the mountains for anything other than walking, tax you for a water charge, not on use , but on a basis just for having it and has increased carbon taxes on everything. Is there anyone that can do anything over this. 3% voted for them. They intend to ruin rural Ireland. What I would like to know is how or why can these people damage rural Ireland when none of these people even live in the country anymore.

The problem is this, the Irish Public. Its our fault for allowing this to happen. They ruin our country and we do nothing. They impose more and more taxes and we still do nothing. Everyone has to take a stand.

pedroeibar1

madmac187 wrote: »

Q
The problem is this, the Irish Public. Its our fault for allowing this to happen. They ruin our country and we do nothing.

No, the problem is many of the people on this site and sites like it. The rubbish they post, the way they post it, and the stupidity they show would make many run from being associated with them. That is why there is no united front and why the Greens & the Antis will nibble away at the edges until they are at the centre and then there will be no hunting, shooting or fishing for our offspring.
HOW MANY have sent a thank-you email to Lowry, Healy Rae, McGrath, etc for taking the brave position they did? ...............See??
P.

jwshooter

madmac187 wrote: »

Quite frankly, Gormley is ruining rural Ireland. First of all he wants to ban Stag hunting, ban anyone using the mountains for anything other than walking, tax you for a water charge, not on use , but on a basis just for having it and has increased carbon taxes on everything. Is there anyone that can do anything over this. 3% voted for them. They intend to ruin rural Ireland. What I would like to know is how or why can these people damage rural Ireland when none of these people even live in the country anymore.

The problem is this, the Irish Public. Its our fault for allowing this to happen. They ruin our country and we do nothing. They impose more and more taxes and we still do nothing. Everyone has to take a stand.

every thing to do with field sports he calls bloodsports ,gormley and this FF government must be thought a lesson at the next election .

No6

cursai wrote: »

Very disappointed in Labour party vote today. Lost a lot of credibility for supporters. A very cynical u-turn move to keep rural votes and appease the hunting lobby. Glad it went through despite the pandering Labour party. Boooooooo!!!!!

Strangely I heard a labour party TD (not sure which one) on the radio today giving the reason they were opposing it was that it didn't go far enough against "bloodsports" they should all be banned, but then again Labour wouldn't have a very strong rural tradition either would it. I don't think it will keep rural votes or appease the hunting lobby if this is their policy, I know I'll never vote Labour or Green and as for FF. Fair play to those who voted againt the bill, lets hope a few in the senate have some sense or if not the President and who the dog breeding bill might cause a few more defections, we can but pray, I'll do a novena in Knock tomorrow!!!:D

convert

It's amazing how somebody from a Tipperary constituency is willing to stand up and have his voice/opinion heard, regardless of the party whip, while three FF TDs from the Meath constituences who previously spoke out against the bill, were willing to bow to party pressure. Says a lot about where their loyalties lie!

madmac187 wrote: »

Quite frankly, Gormley is ruining rural Ireland. First of all he wants to ban Stag hunting, ban anyone using the mountains for anything other than walking, tax you for a water charge, not on use , but on a basis just for having it and has increased carbon taxes on everything.

Don't forget about the tax that Gormley wants to place on timber/logs sold as firewood. He also proposes that people who cut timber for their own use should also be taxed, even though they aren't purchasing it.

Without wanting to turn this into a Gormley-bashing thread, he really doesn't have a clue how people in the countryside live, yet he proposes all these reforms in a bid to conserve the countryside. I think he needs to look at the damage that's been done to the environment in his own constituency before he starts looking further afield.

convert

And while we seem to be posting articles, here's one from The Irish Times.

Government wins Wildlife Bill vote


MARIE O'HALLORAN AND MICHAEL O'REGAN

The Government has won tonight’s Dáil vote banning stag hunting by 75-72 despite uncertainty over the intentions of a small number of Fianna Fáil deputies.

Fianna Fáil Tipperary backbencher Mattie McGrath was the sole Government dissident in voting against the Bill to ban stag hunting as the legislation was passed this evening.

Mr McGrath and party colleague Christy O’Sullivan of Cork South West were both absent from the Dáil chamber when the second stage or introductory debate on the legislation was voted on an hour earlier, but the Government won by 73 to 69.

All other Fianna Fáil TDs, including Meath East backbencher Mary Wallace, voted for the legislation despite speaking out against it during the debate.

Members of Rise! (Rural Ireland Says Enough) packed the gallery for the debate and watched as Fine Gael chief whip Paul Kehoe called for a walk-through vote, whereby TDs have to pass through the "Tá" and "Níl" lobbies, after the electronic vote. In the walk through vote Mr McGrath abstained and the result was 75 votes to 71.

Mr Kehoe asked if the walk through superseded the electronic vote, but the issue was not clarified.

Mr McGrath and Mr O’Sullivan were surrounded by party colleagues before the final vote was taken on the controversial Wildlife (Amendment) Act, in a bid to persuade them to vote with the Government.

Mr O’Sullivan did vote for the legislation, but Mr McGrath voted against and loses the party whip and is no longer a member of the parliamentary party.

During the committee stage Minister for the Environment John Gormley again criticised the Labour party’s opposition to the Bill, accusing them of a U-turn and hypocrisy. He pointed to the absence of Dublin North East Labour TD Tommy Broughan, who opposes bloodsports, for the second stage vote. Mr Broughan did not attend later for the final vote.

Fianna Fáil Westmeath TD Mary O’Rourke said that this Bill and the dog breeding legislation should be an end to the Minister’s “rambling in rural Ireland”.

Yesterday, Mr Gormley, who brought forward the Bill, expressed confidence it would be passed. “I believe at this stage that Fianna Fáil colleagues are committed to implement the Programme for Government. They know that I am a reasonable person and this is not the thin end of the wedge.”

In a statement tonight, Labour chief whip Emmet Stagg said he had written to Mr Broughan informing the TD of the removal of the party whip after his decision to absent himself from the two Dáil votes.

In his letter Mr Stagg said: "I wish also to put on record that you did not inform me of your intentions and that I made contact with you between the two votes referred to and instructed you to attend for the vote at 7.00pm. You failed to do so."

Mr Stagg goes on to tell Mr Broughan that when the TD abstained on the Criminal Justice Bill last year, "the party leader made it clear to you that any repetition would result in the automatic removal of the whip from you".

rowa

convert wrote: »

It's amazing how somebody from a Tipperary constituency is willing to stand up and have his voice/opinion heard, regardless of the party whip, while three FF TDs from the Meath constituences who previously spoke out against the bill, were willing to bow to party pressure. Says a lot about where their loyalties lie!



Don't forget about the tax that Gormley wants to place on timber/logs sold as firewood. He also proposes that people who cut timber for their own use should also be taxed, even though they aren't purchasing it.

Without wanting to turn this into a Gormley-bashing thread, he really doesn't have a clue how people in the countryside live, yet he proposes all these reforms in a bid to conserve the countryside. I think he needs to look at the damage that's been done to the environment in his own constituency before he starts looking further afield.

everyone seems to forget that the green party in ireland is a niche party that is pretty extreme , and will only ever have a tiny following among environmental extremists and their core vote will not be reduced , the only problem i have is the system that allows a party with about 3% of the total vote to hold the balance of power, by a dodgy deal to prop up ff while they look after their croneys and cover up as much as possible , its the tail wagging the dog

jwshooter

its funny that not one person has commented on what will happen to the herd now , possible they will be sent for slaughter now .

there is not a sport in the country with as good a saftey record as the ward .

endasmail

jwshooter wrote: »

its funny that not one person has commented on what will happen to the herd now , possible they will be sent for slaughter now .

there is not a sport in the country with as good a saftey record as the ward .

cant see the ward giving up their deer

badshot

poxman wrote: »

I see Mary Wallace voted for the bill. She spent the last few months going to RISE meetings stating she was going to vote against it. Bit two faced - might find re-election a bit of a problem next time round !

Wow a two faced politican.
fianna fail shower of spineless shxxxxx

BryanL

Sparks wrote: »

Visited the nephews this weekend Dusty. Twin six-year-olds from Kilkenny. I have developed a very healthy fear of hurleys at this point...

Not to worry Sparks, it will surely be banned on Health and safety grounds!

Dusty87

BryanL wrote: »

Not to worry Sparks, it will surely be banned on Health and safety grounds!

Now Bryan dont be ridiculous. It'l be banned to save our Ash trees!!!!
Seen a rise supporter with that on a plackard:D:D

BryanL

terminator2 wrote: »

in all fairness lads there were 1500 people at the rally in trim on saturday .....there should have been 15000 ........remember the stable door:mad::mad:

T2, I agree with what your saying, but at a monster protest by all anti groups at Clonmel coursing, they had less than 20 people.
1,500 in Trim but hundreds at every meeting with politicians around the country for the last 2 years.
They now realise there is a powerful lobby for fieldsports.

This vote due to our lobbying might just bring down the government?

Contentious Wildlife Bill scrapes through Dáil vote
By Conor Ryan Political Correspondent
Wednesday, June 30, 2010
A NIGHT of high drama in the Dáil saw the Government scramble to victory but lose three of its supporters over a Green Party animal welfare law.

Tipperary South’s Mattie McGrath voted against the Government on the Wildlife Bill, which bans stag hunting, forcing his expulsion from the parliamentary party. Two independents also switched sides to set up showdown talks with Government whip John Curran.

Another Fianna Fáil TD, Christy O’Sullivan, disappeared for the first stage of the vote and although he turned up for the crucial ballot Mr Curran has demanded an explanation.

Were it not for a suspended Sinn Féin deputy, a protesting Labour Party spokesman and a deputy kept out by a medical procedure the Government did not have the numbers to win.

The stand-off came to a head shortly before 6pm.

Fianna Fáil had just started its in-house meeting before the first vote was taken.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen reminded every TD of their responsibility. Mr McGrath and Mr O’Sullivan still abstained. A peace process began with the rebels.

Their abstention provoked Fine Gael’s whip Paul Kehoe to up the ante. He withdrew an agreement to keep two of his TDs back to cancel out two sick men – Sean Ardagh and Noel Treacy.

As the debate closed at 7pm the Fianna Fáil TDs gathered above the backbenches.

Mr McGrath was badgered by his party colleagues.

Éamon O Cuív and Brendan Smith were joined by Máire Hoctor, Michael Kennedy and Ned O’Keeffe. Mr O’Sullivan was absent.

The ushers made to pull the curtains and seal the Dáil.

At the last minute former taoiseach Bertie Ahern left the Chamber. Galway TD Frank Fahey took a phone call to keep it open.

A short time later Mr Ahern arrived back, bringing with him Mr O’Sullivan.

He was sucked in by those canvassing Mr McGrath.

By 7.10pm the two protesters were left alone with parliamentary party chairman John Browne,

"Now Mattie, come on down. The price is right," called Michael Ring.

Chief whip Mr Curran and his deputy, John Cregan, briefed the Green Party leadership on the situation.

The standard electronic vote was called. The big screen lit up green as each Government TD registered a vote.

The defecting independents, Jackie Healy-Rae and Michael Lowry, voted no.

But Cork South West’s Christy O’Sullivan declared himself back on side. Ned O’Keeffe reached to shake his hand but was rebuffed.

Attention turned to his colleague Mr McGrath who was getting his ear chewed by his friend, Cork South Central’s Michael McGrath.

The Tipperary South TD looked sullen. He voted no. The Government still won by 75 to 72.

Fine Gael was not finished. Mr Kehoe called for a walk-through vote. Mr McGrath stayed seated. "If Mattie was a horse he would be shot," shouted Pat Rabbitte. Mattie McGrath then scuttled down the stairs and out of the Chamber without registering any vote. It was 7.25pm.

The damage was already done. The bill was passed, the Government majority wiped out.


This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, June 30, 2010


Read more: http://irishexaminer.ie/ireland/contentious-wildlife-bill-scrapes-through-dail-vote-123761.html#ixzz0sKCV6ye6

wildlifeboy

a good result - i saw on tv3 your man healy ray trying to defend the amendments to the puppy farming legislation going through next week..man oh man if thats the best the you guys can muster then its as good as passed. :P

Tackleberrywho

Mods, Can we have a close eye paid on Hunting shooting and Target threads?

It is my opinion that the Anti-shooting/hunting lobby are trying to make inflammatory statements on several shooting/hunting threads

elius

wildlifeboy wrote: »

a good result :P

Go away. Still wont stop me going for a lamp later:P:P:P:P:P

Dusty87

I reported it earlier. Seriously what do people get from that. Looking to get a rise out of people. I wouldnt go into the motorcycle section if road racing got banned jeering it. Oh i forgot my life not that boring as to try a stir stuf on things i dont have a clue about