Is this bill the one that brings down the FF/GE Goverment

mysons

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/lowry-to-vote-against-stag-hunting-ban-463435.html

Iwasfrozen

I don't know, is it? Perhaps you could give a little bit more information.

Atlantic Dawn

No chance, turkeys don't vote for Christmas. An election is the last thing anyone in FF or the Greens want.

Biggins

No. The boyo's will tow the party-line just enough to non-rock the boat and also knowingly do so as to guarantee their seats for just a little longer too.

eoinbn

Mysons, you need to add your own opinion of the thread will be locked.

Truely amazing that this is the issue that is causing the government the most trouble. I might be wrong here but I would say that less than 5% of the population REALLY give a damn about this either way. Sure some people might say it's cruel while chewing on a piece of beef and some of us rural folk might view it as an attack on a way of living, but if it was banned hardly anyone would notice or care.

edit: I doubt it will bring down the government even if it doesn't pass- especially given the latest result in the polls.

Hootanany

Oh i wish i wish it would happen

Our man in Havana

It could fail. There is always a chance that the bill will not pass.

Hootanany

Fingers crossed then

charlemont

let us hope..:D:D:D:D:D

mike65

It would be hilarious if this of all things caused an implosion. Such a marginal matter and yet as Albert Reynolds noted, "it's the little things that trip you up".

Sulmac

It would say a lot if this brought down the government.

Not NAMA, not the budget cutbacks, not the crises in the health system, not the self-serving nature of certain politicians and the endemic corruption that comes with it - but this.

Wide Road

FG hardly want an election. As a supporter said lately, be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it!!

mysons

My point to this was that they would pass every other bill ie tax,banks,more tax but they may not pass a bill about stag hunting makes you wonder how they really view the Irish public.

ian_m

The public interest is the thought of a much needed general election, rather than the bill itself, and how much it is annoying the FF backbenchers.

The Greens are bullying their way through with this, because they know time is running out.

Two independent voters who normaly vote with the opposition Finnian McGrath and Maureen O'Sullivan will be voting with the government instead so that will favour the governement even without Healy-Rea and Lowry.

Unlikely that they will lose this vote. Sham.

femur61

I can't get my head around the media and the public attention this is drawing. The country is in the worst state it has been in, developers are swindling billions, not millions out of the tax payer, governement personale are overpaid by far, women are aborting pregancies because they can't afford to have children and we the worried about stag hunting, BTW I'm a veggie but exremely realistic.

syklops

After the revelation that there is still no sign of the Cystic Fibrosis wards, after 2 years, I would be very disappointed if the fecking hunting ban were the one to take down the government.

johngalway

Doesn't matter what brings them down as long as they go down, but I don't think this bill will fail to pass.

ian_m

femur61 wrote: »

I can't get my head around the media and the public attention this is drawing.

Because people want a general election and this is the closest it has got yet.

Shea O'Meara

This is a simple 'Yes' 'No' issue. That's why it's easier to report, talk about. For me, any animal cruelty is bad form, but I'm still hoping the people issues will one day wake the electorate up to the shambles known as Irish society which we currently live in.

Nijmegen

Fianna Fail has a reputation for closing ranks when needed. Hanging onto the power is more important than hanging onto any principals... This is a having cake and eating it exercise, that shows up just where the interests of many FF - and other - deputies lay... With a bunch of very, very special interests.

Wide Road

Nijmegen wrote: »

Fianna Fail has a reputation for closing ranks when needed. Hanging onto the power is more important than hanging onto any principals... This is a having cake and eating it exercise, that shows up just where the interests of many FF - and other - deputies lay... With a bunch of very, very special interests.

What about the Labour principals? I just read today's Indo. 16 out of their 20 TDs state their opposition to blood sports, including stag hunting. I know it's in the "letters to the editor" section, but is it true?

mike65

Well I'm not surprised they are agin Stagg hunting.

Max Power1

Wide Road wrote: »

What about the Labour principals? I just read today's Indo. 16 out of their 20 TDs state their opposition to blood sports, including stag hunting. I know it's in the "letters to the editor" section, but is it true?

I didnt know that they had any?

They seem to be against everything that the government does, but with no clear alternatives or reasoning.

Thats why I despise the politicians in this country currently, we have no credible government and no credible opposition.

Wide Road

Max Power1 wrote: »

I didnt know that they had any?

They seem to be against everything that the government does, but with no clear alternatives or reasoning.

Thats why I despise the politicians in this country currently, we have no credible government and no credible opposition.

Where is Eamon Gilmore? Why is he so quiet?

ANXIOUS

This bill isnt going to bring the goverment down, the only reason lowery and healy ray are voting against it is because they know the goverment still has the numbers.

Having spoke to finian mcgrath this morning, he is voting with the goverment.

Yet again this shows labour for the flip flop of a party that they are, as i said to eamon gilmore when i seen him canvasing. Its very well being populist in opposition, but in leaders of countries people demand backbone and the ability to be decisive. Of which you lack both.

Wide Road

ANXIOUS wrote: »

This bill isnt going to bring the goverment down, the only reason lowery and healy ray are voting against it is because they know the goverment still has the numbers.

Having spoke to finian mcgrath this morning, he is voting with the goverment.

Yet again this shows labour for the flip flop of a party that they are, as i said to eamon gilmore when i seen him canvasing. Its very well being populist in opposition, but in leaders of countries people demand backbone and the ability to be decisive. Of which you lack both.

But where is he? Eamon is on record as being against stag hunting, yet he is voting against the proposal today. Why?

ANXIOUS

Wide Road wrote: »

But where is he? Eamon is on record as being against stag hunting, yet he is voting against the proposal today. Why?

Well when i seen him, he was in the square in tallaght .

I think the labour party have taken the stance to try and bring down the goverment at every turn, regardless of their position on the bill. Which is their right.

jmayo

eoinbn wrote: »

Mysons, you need to add your own opinion of the thread will be locked.

Truely amazing that this is the issue that is causing the government the most trouble. I might be wrong here but I would say that less than 5% of the population REALLY give a damn about this either way. Sure some people might say it's cruel while chewing on a piece of beef and some of us rural folk might view it as an attack on a way of living, but if it was banned hardly anyone would notice or care.

edit: I doubt it will bring down the government even if it doesn't pass- especially given the latest result in the polls.

It will be an issue like this that appears of no consequence in the grand scheme of things that can actually scupper a coalition.

I expect the yellows to look for an out sometime in 2011.

Wide Road wrote: »

FG hardly want an election. As a supporter said lately, be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it!!

True they want to see ff have to bring another savage budget to really start peeing off some of the diehards they still have willing to vote for them.

FG (and even Labour) know damm well that tough budgets have to come in, so why not let the shaggers that caused the mess take a lot of those unpopular decisions.
At this stage I think we have gone so far down the bank guarantee/NAMA/recapitalisation route that whoever gets in will have their hands tied by the sh*** system setup by ff/yellows. :mad:

The only real benefit to see ff out would be to see the f***ers getting their asses kicked out of the plum jobs, see the end to their buddies in the quangoes & state boards, and see some real investigations into the mess they helped create and now cover up.

PeterIanStaker

Its far easier for the FF spin machine that is Independent Newspapers to report on stag hunting, than something that actually matters like, oh, lets see, healthcare or something?

ANXIOUS

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Its far easier for the FF spin machine that is Independent Newspapers to report on stag hunting, than something that actually matters like, oh, lets see, healthcare or something?

Why would ff want an issue to come up just before the summer break ( where the governent parties usually enjoy a boost in the polls) that could bring down the governent?

This I feel is just another post by people on here to say something about ff and wait for the thanks to roll in.

PeterIanStaker

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Why would ff want an issue to come up just before the summer break ( where the governent parties usually enjoy a boost in the polls) that could bring down the governent?

This I feel is just another post by people on here to say something about ff and wait for the thanks to roll in.

Its typical FF cutehoorism. Pretend to be seen to be doing something about a non - issue (in comparison to healthcare for example), to take people's attention off the mess the place is in. Easily done when you own the press and airwaves and appoint paid court jesters to the Seanad.

Wide Road

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Its far easier for the FF spin machine that is Independent Newspapers to report on stag hunting, than something that actually matters like, oh, lets see, healthcare or something?

But it matters to Gilmore and co in Labour. Eamon wrote to John Gormley about it and now Labour are doing a U-turn. You might know why? Or indeed why he's so quiet on this?

PeterIanStaker

Gilmore knows well that if he goes after a real issue, he'll have to someday make a real decision in the form of say, a tough budget that will make him unpopular. Far easier from his point of view to keep saying "I told you so" than to do anything constructive.

In summary, we are completely and utterly f*cked either way, no matter who is in power.

Wide Road

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Gilmore knows well that if he goes after a real issue, he'll have to someday make a real decision in the form of say, a tough budget that will make him unpopular. Far easier from his point of view to keep saying "I told you so" than to do anything constructive.

In summary, we are completely and utterly f*cked either way, no matter who is in power.

So they are all the same then.

PeterIanStaker

Wide Road wrote: »

So they are all the same then.

No , thats something a FF man would say.

What I am saying is that the opposition is ineffective.

Liam Byrne

Wide Road wrote: »

So they are all the same then.

I don't think PeterIanStalker said that ?

I think that - given the mess FF and their buddies have made - no-one will be able to get us out of it too easily.

Regardless of how much they might not be "the same" as the ones who landed us in it and show no remorse or ethics about footing the bill for con-men masquerading as banks.

Wide Road

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I don't think PeterIanStalker said that ?

I think that - given the mess FF and their buddies have made - no-one will be able to get us out of it too easily.

Regardless of how much they might not be "the same" as the ones who landed us in it and show no remorse or ethics about footing the bill for con-men masquerading as banks.

He didn't say that. But his reason is that the opposition is ineffective. BTW Liam, what's your own view on Labours U-turn?

Liam Byrne

Wide Road wrote: »

BTW Liam, what's your own view on Labours U-turn?

Couldn't care less, to be honest. It's not exactly something that I'd consider a priority, so it's up for negotiation.

If stag hunting stayed or went within a coalition policy of getting FF out of Government before they do more damage, or within a policy of getting Anglo off our backs and out of our pockets, that's fine by me.

That said, it sickens me to see hunting, etc, continually described as "rural pursuits", as if everyone rural saw it as some sort of tradition.

Wide Road

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Couldn't care less, to be honest. It's not exactly something that I'd consider a priority, so it's up for negotiation.

If stag hunting stayed or went within a coalition policy of getting FF out of Government before they do more damage, or within a policy of getting Anglo off our backs and out of our pockets, that's fine by me.

That said, it sickens me to see hunting, etc, continually described as "rural pursuits", as if everyone rural saw it as some sort of tradition.

My problem is I find it strange that Labour finds it important enough to change policy even though the Indo claims that 16 of the 20 Labour TDs are anti-blood sports. If it's not a priority, why change? Isn't Eamon Gilmore very quiet lately.

bijapos

Speaking of about turns, doeas anybody know Alan Shatter FG views on hunting. As a former president of the Irish Council against Blood Sports I would have thought he would be supporting the bill. Wouldn't be a turnaround would it?

PeterIanStaker

well they just passed it so no chance of anything happening soon

Biggins

Biggins wrote: »

No. The boyo's will tow the party-line just enough to non-rock the boat and also knowingly do so as to guarantee their seats for just a little longer too.

What did I say...

Mary Wallace, Fianna Fáil TD for Meath East, voted with the Government. She issued a statement that said she 'decided, in the national interest not to be instrumental in the fall of this Government

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0629/hunting.html

It could have been any bill and despite how much she (or any other) personally objected, they will clearly still rather say "stuff my constituents who support me and think similar" and vote instead to keep their asses in their nicely paid jobs!

Now if only their constituents would remember this arrogance when it comes to re-electing them!

Deise Tom

When will those in the head offices of Fianna Fail start listening to what the grass root members are saying. Its no good taking the whip of people that have an opinion that they dont want to know about. When Fianna Fail was founded, who were the ones that kept its leaders in safe houses etc. Have they forgotten about the people in the remote country areas. Looks like they have.

Poly

Is it safe for Emmet Stag to return to the park?
Or am I getting my stag hunting all mixed up?

the groutch

vote was 75-71, could it have been defeated with a full turnout of the opposition???

Guy:Incognito

the groutch wrote: »

vote was 75-71, could it have been defeated with a full turnout of the opposition???

The anti-bloodsport supporting opposition?

calex71

This is trophy legislation at it's finest . What a muppet Gormely is :mad:

I could care less either way about stag hunting but the hypocrisy of this bill is astounding. So they ban one stag hunt a year

How many hare coursing events are there per year? No mention of them banning that, nor will there be! Greens were likely told don't mention the hare coursing we make too much from that

spank_inferno

calex71 wrote: »

This is trophy legislation at it's finest . What a muppet Gormely is :mad:

I could care less either way about stag hunting but the hypocrisy of this bill is astounding. So they ban one stag hunt a year

How many hare coursing events are there per year? No mention of them banning that, nor will there be! Greens were likely told don't mention the hare coursing we make too much from that

Small steps.
In time I hope that coursing will also be banned.

For now, this piece of legislation is a step in the right direction.

calex71

spank_inferno wrote: »

Small steps.
In time I hope that coursing will also be banned.

For now, this piece of legislation is a step in the right direction.

16 million a year to local economies (according to impartial's) are 16 million reason not to ban coursing. I'm not pro or anti on the matter but this just goes to show more the hypocrisy of the greens :mad:

Executive Steve

spank_inferno wrote: »

Small steps.
In time I hope that coursing will also be banned.

For now, this piece of legislation is a step in the right direction.

Where hare coursing takes place the local hare populations are far more robust as a result of it though.

I'd rather have the odd few hares chased around a field a by a dog so that a sustainable breeding population remains in an area than have a situation where the hares are nearly wiped out the way are up North where there's no hare coursing.

Maybe I just love animals too much to be in with the "animal rights" crowd?

Deise Tom

the groutch wrote: »

vote was 75-71, could it have been defeated with a full turnout of the opposition???

I think i heard it said someplace yesterday that there was pairings in operation for the vote.