From today's Indo re DTT (28.6.2010)

craoltoir

Independent.ie

West the loser as RTE cuts digital TV coverage

By Brian McDonald
Monday June 28 2010
RTE'S plans for the nationwide rollout of digital television will leave large chunks of the country without any coverage, the Irish Independent has learned.
The revised proposals, which were submitted to the Department of Communications last week, mean that areas in the west, northwest and southwest will not receive Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT).
Under an EU directive, people living in locations such as Maam Cross, Leenane and Cleggan in Connemara; Achill and Belmullet in Mayo; Glencolumbkille and Ardara in Donegal; and Dingle, Kenmare and Sneem in Kerry will lose their existing analogue service by 2012.
But, with the cost of building the new network rocketing, RTE wants to cut back on the number of transmitter sites, with the outlying areas losing out.
The state broadcaster will have responsibility for two multiplexes (bundles of TV stations) under its public service remit. These will largely consist of the main Irish free-to-air channels.
The plan to have dozens of commercial stations also provided in digital format has been dogged by difficulties since first advertised three years ago.
In July 2008, Boxer DTT TV Ltd was the chosen supplier to operate the three remaining commercial multiplexes. But it pulled out last year and One Vision and Easy TV followed suit, after also initially deciding to take up the licence.
Under the terms of the Broadcasting Act 2009, RTE Networks Ltd, a subsidiary of RTE, has been charged with the task of rolling out the DTT transmission system in preparation for the introduction of the new service.
It was initially planned to have a total of 150 sites covering the country.
But with costs to date running at about €40m, RTE now wants to reduce the number to about 50.

Satellite
This will result in areas of the west coast being unable to avail of the new service.
The plans will have huge implications for TG4 in particular. The station draws its core audience from Irish-speaking communities in the locations certain to be worst-hit.
While RTE has argued that the terrestrial channels will be available via satellite, this would involve additional cost for households subscribing to a satellite service, including the erection of a satellite dish.
Management at TG4 declined to comment, but are understood to be of the view that RTE must fulfil its remit under the Broadcasting Act to provide universal, free-to-air digital TV reception.
- Brian McDonald

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/west-the-loser-as-rte-cuts-digital-tv-coverage-2237363.html

channelsurfer2

so the good folk at rte the national broadcaster now wants to become a semi-national broadcaster and only cover urban areas.....and let us all pay an extra miniumum of 22euro a month to sky to receive what we pay a licence fee already for??????????

Sponge Bob

The more invidious thing is that transmitters ordered...eg specifically for Aranmore in Donegal to serve the gaeltacht area there...are being or have been installed elsewhere.

galtee boy

Some of these areas, may well get a DTT signal from the nearest main transmitter site, which currently doesn't give them a good analogue signal. All over the country, we're hearing of people getting the DTT tests perfectly, while having a crap analogue picture from the same transmitter.
However, I do agree that RTE will have to use DTT relays in these areas eventually. Presumably, the analogue relays in these areas, won't be shut off until upgraded for DTT, even if it means going beyond 31/12/2012.

Sponge Bob

You are right Galtee. The only analogue relays that must be shut down are those near the border and in the south east. Ones in Kerry Galway Cork and Mayo can be left on for years beyond 2012 if required.

We had sort of covered this issue of infill relays 3 years ago and stabbed at a total network of 120 tx's and relays to complete the job ( 13-15 Main TX and up to 100 relays) . I have no idea where this 150 number in the Indo came from.

Frankly 150 seems to be too high except that the wind farm shadow/interference issue may NOW require 150 where 150 were not required 10 years ago.

Anyway the final 30-40 infills can only be installed AFTER switchoff in 2012 when the last adjustments are made to the Antenna patterns on Main TX and large Relays in CO-Operation with the NI authorities. Certain infills may not be required at all. Other infills may be needed AFTER a windfarms is built that does not exist now.

Furthermore IF RTE build 50 Main Transmitters and Relays we should have well over 95% population coverage at decent strengths. 20 years ago there were only about 30 TX sites in the whole state at most. 50 is a big improvement. It was only after the 1990s TG4 network rollout that we got decent pictures in the west by and large and that brought us to around 50 substantial sites not counting infills and self helps.

There are of course a lot of tiny deflectors out there but many are not required with digital error correction. The big problem is windfarms ....let them pay for the infill TXs not RTE.

I am CERTAIN that No plan was ever PUBLISHED for 150 sites, only one for 50 or so.


We could nearly finalise the South East today once we figure out what Mux to broadcast ITV Ireland on....to Wales

watty

That's what will happen.

Which means that any possible Wireless Broadband or Interent (which these areas need the most) will not be available until maybe 2017.

I don't think there was a public plan for more than 90 sites, but about 150 are needed to give full coverage.

Even RTE analogue coverage as actual signal level is poor compared with UK BBC/ITV as UK added many suitable UHF sites and had better VHF coverage. RTE initial VHF sites were to give most area not best signal. That's why they had to add then upgrade Three Rock, Spur Hill, Carn Hill, Woodcock, Clermont Cairn and Holy Hill. Woodcock is no longer a repeater but is too low a power and too small a mast. Galway City is badly served yet. As are many other major towns.

They do absolutely need over 90 sites. 50 sites is pathetic.

Sponge Bob

watty wrote: »

That's what will happen.

Which means that any possible Wireless Broadband or Interent (which these areas need the most) will not be available until maybe 2017.

There is a strong correlation between .

1. Requirement for infill relays and lack of decent broadband
2. Requirement for infill relays and high wind potential

Unfortunately RTENL missed a golden opportunity at regional planning level to ensure that Wind Farm planning had to take account of their Digital TV signal propogation and of a standardised national mitigation strategy for the effects of a wind farm because they are so utterly shifty and evasive about their actual plans.

Ye can't have it both ways lads ....just telling ye for when ye show up in here

scath

There is no EU Directive on ASO. Where did the journo get that idea from? It is more of a goal or objective by the former Info Society Media Directorate of the Commission to maximise for the EU economies spectrum efficiency and extra capacity and financial benefits of same. But strictly speaking can wait til 2015 which the former BCI said themselves. I would think those analogue areas transmitters might probably be left on until upgrade and may be upgraded post 2012. Am sure Enda Kenny will have something to say about that. Apart from the Broadcasting Act 2009 which if RTÉ are brought to court on, could be made cover those areas for analogue intil can afford digital? Will that be used to justify a license fee increase then? With digital I see that as a possibility of an increase

Sam Russell

scath wrote: »

With digital I see that as a possibility of an increase

One of the justifications for DTT is that it is cheaper to operate. A single MUX costs about the same as a single analogue UHF channel. We should be looking for a reduction in licence fee, but I think anyone would know the result of that request.

mike65

Reading this I keep wondering why Satellite was not chosen as the preferred delivery system. What am I missing (apart from RTE being tied by some apparently amazing never ending SKY contract)?

Apogee

Satellite was never going to be the preferred delivery system due to issues of reliability and control/ownership.

What certainly should have been examined was terrestrial as the main delivery system, with satellite acting as an in-fill for the remaining 10-20% on a free-to-view basis.

Pádhraic Ó Ciardha was more prescient that he had hoped in 2007:

Padhraic O'Ciardha, TG4. wrote:

I take that point, Neil, however, I want to talk briefly about the person who is in the category between the 90 and the 95%. The proposition is, isn't it, that analogue switch off or before it, we are asking him or her to go and buy set-top box to receive MUX one, which will be the public service one, with RTE's channels, ourselves and hopefully TV3. But we are actually telling him really, after that you'd be probably better off buying a Sky box because we're not going to get you the other multiplexes from that date. And I doubt very much, based on previous performances, that whether MUX operations three and four and five, when they fail to achieve a higher percentage, that anything punitive is going to happen to them. So the message -- I'm just saying this to be deliberately controversial, the message to the persons living between the 90 and the 98%, or the 80 and 98% is forget about DTT, go buy yourself a Sky box.

watty

Ireland doesn't have a Satellite platform and we sold off our allocated clarke Belt slot.

Sponge Bob

O Ciardha was probably saying that the PS Mux would be the only available mux on infill and that a good guess was that the full suite of 6 muxes would only deploy on main txs ( 80%) or main txs and larger relays ( 80-98%) . The remaining 2% would either get no DTT signal at all or would only get a minor infill relay and would be as well off to go with SKY there and then.

BBC and ITV were FTA by 2007 making it a reasonable each way bet anyway.

It would not surprise me if the Commercial mux gear were cannibalised off certain relays and installed on others and thereby making his 80% prediction turn out absloutely correct.

KeRbDoG

craoltoir wrote: »

...
While RTE has argued that the terrestrial channels will be available via satellite, this would involve additional cost for households subscribing to a satellite service, including the erection of a satellite dish...

RTE have said this? I doubt it.
When is RTE1/2/TV3/TG4 going FTA on satellite? Never I would guess

Apogee

Sponge Bob wrote: »

O Ciardha was probably saying that the PS Mux would be the only available mux on infill and that a good guess was that the full suite of 6 muxes would only deploy on main txs ( 80%) or main txs and larger relays ( 80-98%) . The remaining 2% would either get no DTT signal at all or would only get a minor infill relay and would be as well off to go with SKY there and then.

BBC and ITV were FTA by 2007 making it a reasonable each way bet anyway.

It would not surprise me if the Commercial mux gear were cannibalised off certain relays and installed on others and thereby making his 80% prediction turn out absloutely correct.

Yeah, he was primarily talking about the availability of the commercial muxes. However, his last two sentences are the key ones i.e. recognising the difference between what is promised and what is actually delivered in Ireland.

The "grand plan" was 80-85% coverage at launch, 93% coverage target at ASO in 2013 for the commercial muxes (cf the various submissions for the licences). The public mux was supposed to reach 98% coverage with the smaller relays at ASO. Nobody has ever suggested that anything will be done for the remaining 2%. And that 98% figure was always pie-in-the-sky, much like the supposed 98.5% analogue coverage for RTÉ1 & 2 and 95% for TG4 claimed currently by Goan.

glic83

watty wrote: »

Ireland doesn't have a Satellite platform and we sold off our allocated clarke Belt slot.

who did they sell it off to?and why?was it due to the cost of setting it up or just nobody was interested in getting it up and running?

glic83

glic83 wrote: »

who did they sell it off to?and why?was it due to the cost of setting it up or just nobody was interested in getting it up and running?

It was five channels at 31° west - I believe they were sold to the BSB consortium in 1989/1990 as part of expanding their D-MAC service beyond the initial UK allocation of 5 channels. I can only assume that Sky own this now.

Apogee

From the RTÉNL Tariffs doc:

Sponge Bob

Very interesting that Apogee , many thanks. 44 sites with 6 muxes and the rest with 2. Up to 144 sites with PS Muxes ONLY. I reckon they will only do the 44 sites and will look for a public service subvention on the others in the form of a TV Licence increase.

1.5m x €5 increase would deliver €7.5m a year , do maybe 10 a year ??

watty

Karsini wrote: »

It was five channels at 31° west - I believe they were sold to the BSB consortium in 1989/1990 as part of expanding their D-MAC service beyond the initial UK allocation of 5 channels. I can only assume that Sky own this now.

No. Sky are only interested in 28.2E (Which Astra had to pay compensation to Eutelsat as it was a slot for Central Europe.)

A BSB DMac Satellite was sold to Nordic (Marco Polo 2, which was renamed Thor) which had maybe 5 channels. But it was a UK satellite.

The Marcopolo satellites were withdrawn and eventually sold in favour of the Astra system which was not subject to IBA regulation. (Marcopolo I in December 1993 to NSAB of Sweden and Marcopolo II in July 1992 to Telenor of Norway.

The name Esat - said to be an abbreviation of "Éireann Satellite" and connected to O'Briens bid for Ireland's communications satellite licence under the 1977 ITU frequency plans in which Ireland,UK, Iceland, Portugal and Spain had different spectrum allocated at 31W. Today Spain uses 30W. The Marco Polos were at 31W, but those were UK and sold off when BSB merged with Sky to be BskyB.

watty

Sponge Bob wrote: »

...Up to 144 sites with PS Muxes ONLY. I reckon they will only do the 44 sites and will look for a public service subvention on the others in the form of a TV Licence increase.

1.5m x €5 increase would deliver €7.5m a year , do maybe 10 a year ??

It should not be a TV licence increase. The whole point of DTT is to give the GOVERNMENT and Infrastructure a "Digital Dividend" of released spectrum. Comreg or General Taxation.

So basically we need 144 to 188 sites. The 150 sites is thus a reasonable figure and have the Government pay for Sky cards for the last 1% to 2%.

10 a year is madness.

May 1951: Public display of television at Royal Dublin Society (RDS)
1955: First television broadcast from Republic of Ireland [was] organised by BBC [and] was relayed via Belfast and Scotland to several European countries.
August 1960: First combined television and sound licence
31 December 1961: Opening night of Telefís Éireann.
September 1997: The RTÉ Authority makes proposals seeking Government approval to find a partner to fund digital terrestrial television (DTT).
...
3 November 2001: RTÉ signs up to Sky Digital Platform (first broadcast 23 April 2002).
2002-2005: RTÉ Strategic Plan.
...
2003: BSkyB gives access in U.K. to all four RTÉ Radio stations.

http://www.rte.ie/laweb/brc/brc_timeline.html

watty

watty wrote: »

No. Sky are only interested in 28.2E (Which Astra had to pay compensation to Eutelsat as it was a slot for Central Europe.)

A BSB DMac Satellite was sold to Nordic (Marco Polo 2, which was renamed Thor) which had maybe 5 channels. But it was a UK satellite.

So does no country have their DBS allocations anymore? Yes the BSB satellites were UK owned but as you say yourself, the spectrum was shared in the 1977 ITU frequency plans so any Irish satellite would have been co-located. I know for sure I read somewhere that Ireland's DBS allocation was sold to BSB but never used.

watty

Yes, BSB did use 31W. But after the merger with Sky (BSkyB), the satellites sold of and moved to Nordic slots. Which the Scandinavians still use. The two Marco Polo sats (renamed Sirus and Thor) finally Junked in 2003.

We are one of the few countries NOT using an allocation.
Asia http://www.lyngsat.com/asia.html
Europe http://www.lyngsat.com/europe.html
Atlantic http://www.lyngsat.com/atlantic.html
Americas http://www.lyngsat.com/america.html

This is closed http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/Ireland.html

Our old slot was 31W, now at 31.5W:

Offering New Capacity to the Region via Intelsat 25 and Intelsat New Dawn

To address the customer demand for new capacity in Africa, Intelsat acquired the ProtoStar 1 satellite, which was renamed Intelsat 25 (IS-25), late last year and repositioned it to 328.5° E. IS-25 commenced service last week and offers C- and Ku-band coverage of a substantial portion of Africa. IS-25 provides capacity for high growth applications that include cellular backhaul for expansion services to remote locations; IP Trunking for robust Internet connectivity; and video services for programming.

And
http://www.lyngsat.com/hispa.html (30 W)
Mostly Spain/Canaries, but a South American Beam and a Caribean beam also.

We can pick up all the Spain/Canaries channels practically on a bin lid.

I see Avanti's Hylass (late 2010 launch?) is supposed to be a UK slot and 33.5W (but on Russian or Ariane launch)

Neither satellite remained at the Ireland/UK 31° West slot so the frequencies allocated were not reused, they were eventually replaced by the WRC-97 / WRC-2000 BSS (DBS) plan.

The UK is again due to place a satellite into its allocated BSS (DBS) slot at 33.5ºW later this year on board a Falcon 9 launch vehicle , the satellite called Hylas will operate at both Ku & Ka Band and will provide two-way data communications links.

From The Cush http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59014870&postcount=8

Apogee

The ITU allocation to Ireland covered in detail in a previous thread here.

Sponge Bob

I wonder how much Ray Burke pocketed for them ??

mike65

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I wonder if Ray Burke pocketed anything for them ??

Is what you meant to say I'm sure. Or are you refering to the Dept of Comms in a colloquial fashion?

Sponge Bob

By temporal appromixation Mike.

Mike 1972

The Irish satellite licence was awarded to Atlantic Satellites not Esat (although Esat did apply) the folks behind Esat (Dennis O Brien and others) later diversified into radio broadcasting/telecommunications. Atlantic plan depended on the UK market (Ireland and the UK shared the 31W allocation) when BSB went under (merged taken over by Sky) as a result of Astra (and others) making a nonsense of the WARC77/DBS concept Atlantic became a dead duck.

watty wrote: »

We are one of the few countries NOT using an allocation.

WARC77 was based on the notion of every country getting the same number of channels. Nice and egalitarian in theory but totally impractical (UK or even multilingual Switzerland had the same number as Andorra/San Marino/Vatican City etc) Everything was based on 1977 national boundaries so Germany wound up with 10 (Technically they were entitled to 15 since West Berlin was theoretically not part of West Germany) Czech and Slovak Republics with 2.5 each while the USSR and Yugoslavia....well lets not go there !

watty

They have revised it. Though even the most recent revision is often broken.

ISAA

The good old days, when you could make money with satellite tv :

1.8m dishes,
analogue/D2 mac,

No cowboys