Railcars on Dublin-Sligo

foggy_lad

Today and on other previous occasions several trips on the Dublin-sligo service had 29000 railcars instead of proper intercity trains. Surely these rail cars are unsuitable for a bumpy 3hour journey? Also hot beverages were served which I noticed some passengers spilled because the ride was so bumpy! Should there have been only cold drinks available considering this? Also where are all the new very expensive intercity trains? Are they living up to the old "made in Taiwan" thing?

wild handlin

foggy_lad wrote: »

Today and on other previous occasions several trips on the Dublin-sligo service had 29000 railcars instead of proper intercity trains. Surely these rail cars are unsuitable for a bumpy 3hour journey? Also hot beverages were served which I noticed some passengers spilled because the ride was so bumpy! Should there have been only cold drinks available considering this? Also where are all the new very expensive intercity trains? Are they living up to the old "made in Taiwan" thing?

The 29000 railcars should NEVER, EVER have been put on the route - to Longford at the very most.

Sounds like the lack of availible units to cover the diagrams. Bring back the Mk3's anyone - oh wait! They're orange....................................

foggy_lad

The 13.05 and 15.05 from Dublin and the 17.00 and 19.00 from sligo today will also be those commuter railcasts! Also tomorrow the 09.05 from Dublin and the 13.00 from sligo will also be railcars and the same on Tuesday and for the rest of the week and next weekend. What are irish rail doing??

corktina

never? well better than a cancelled train surely. I guess they have had a breakdown on the rostered 22. Thats the biggest drawback of fixed units, one fault can take out a whole set rather than just one carriage.

KC61

foggy_lad wrote: »

Today and on other previous occasions several trips on the Dublin-sligo service had 29000 railcars instead of proper intercity trains. Surely these rail cars are unsuitable for a bumpy 3hour journey? Also hot beverages were served which I noticed some passengers spilled because the ride was so bumpy! Should there have been only cold drinks available considering this? Also where are all the new very expensive intercity trains? Are they living up to the old "made in Taiwan" thing?

Quite simply there are not enough 22k sets to operate the entire Sligo timetable. Remember that two sets went back to Korea and have yet to be replaced. As a result at least one train per day has to be 29k operated.

Monday to Thursday the 0905 ex-Dublin and the 1300 ex-Sligo are 29k operated. On Fridays the 1305 ex-Dublin and the 1700 ex-Sligo are also 29k operated as the 22k set is added to the 1505 to make it a six piece due to heavy loads. On Saturdays only the 1305 and 1700 are 29k operated.

On Sundays the 6 piece 22k sets operate the 1600, 1705 and 1905 to Sligo to be in position for the morning trains on Monday. However the 1700 and 1900 are heavily loaded trains and as such a 3 piece 22k set would not suffice, and hence 8 piece 29k sets are used.

This will come to an end when the next batch of 22k sets arrive and ate commissioned probably late next year.

The alternative would be to not operate the trains.

foggy_lad

KC61 wrote: »

Quite simply there are not enough 22k sets to operate the entire Sligo timetable. Remember that two sets went back to Korea and have yet to be replaced. As a result at least one train per day has to be 29k operated.

Monday to Thursday the 0905 ex-Dublin and the 1300 ex-Sligo are 29k operated. On Fridays the 1305 ex-Dublin and the 1700 ex-Sligo are also 29k operated as the 22k set is added to the 1505 to make it a six piece due to heavy loads. On Saturdays only the 1305 and 1700 are 29k operated.

On Sundays the 6 piece 22k sets operate the 1600, 1705 and 1905 to Sligo to be in position for the morning trains on Monday. However the 1700 and 1900 are heavily loaded trains and as such a 3 piece 22k set would not suffice, and hence 8 piece 29k sets are used.

This will come to an end when the next batch of 22k sets arrive and ate commissioned probably late next year.

The alternative would be to not operate the trains.

fair enough the managers in irish rail cant manage their trains very well or they would have the returned/damaged sets of 22ks fixed/replaced already, but what about health and safety for passengers on the bumpy 29ks when hot drinks are being served? also there is another safety issue with all the usual luggage sitting in the aisles as there is no luggage space on the 29k cummuter carts.

also on last nights train there was a wheelchair passenger but the only wheelchair accessible toilet was out of order due to being dirty from the trip out to sligo and was locked by the ticket checker just as the train departed sligo! should this not have been cleaned in sligo when the train was swept out?

imo irish rail staff couldnt give a toss for passengers and would prefer if the services were cancelled due to not having trains as they will most likely get paid anyway for standing in an empty station reading the mirror and the management are a law onto themselves and will do as they please even if it means losing millions!

Southsider1

wild handlin wrote: »

The 29000 railcars should NEVER, EVER have been put on the route - to Longford at the very most.

Sounds like the lack of availible units to cover the diagrams. Bring back the Mk3's anyone - oh wait! They're orange....................................

There's a load of them parked up in Waterford. Suppose they're being left to rot now? Great idea!!

Ham'nd'egger

foggy_lad wrote: »

fair enough the managers in irish rail cant manage their trains very well or they would have the returned/damaged sets of 22ks fixed/replaced already, but what about health and safety for passengers on the bumpy 29ks when hot drinks are being served? also there is another safety issue with all the usual luggage sitting in the aisles as there is no luggage space on the 29k cummuter carts.

Can we take it that you have the knowledge and skills to fix broken trains in a few hours? Do you even know the nature of the faults that has the sets returned to Korea?

foggy_lad wrote: »

also on last nights train there was a wheelchair passenger but the only wheelchair accessible toilet was out of order due to being dirty from the trip out to sligo and was locked by the ticket checker just as the train departed sligo! should this not have been cleaned in sligo when the train was swept out?

Again, do you know the reason/s why the toilet was out of order? Perhaps it was broke by a careless passenger or left in such a state that it wasn't able to be sorted out in a short time. Don't forget, there are scumbags on trains who think it's a laugh to do stuff like that.

foggy_lad wrote: »

imo irish rail staff couldnt give a toss for passengers and would prefer if the services were cancelled due to not having trains as they will most likely get paid anyway for standing in an empty station reading the mirror and the management are a law onto themselves and will do as they please even if it means losing millions!

Constructive statement that adds to the debate, eh?

KC61

foggy_lad wrote: »

fair enough the managers in irish rail cant manage their trains very well or they would have the returned/damaged sets of 22ks fixed/replaced already, but what about health and safety for passengers on the bumpy 29ks when hot drinks are being served? also there is another safety issue with all the usual luggage sitting in the aisles as there is no luggage space on the 29k cummuter carts.

also on last nights train there was a wheelchair passenger but the only wheelchair accessible toilet was out of order due to being dirty from the trip out to sligo and was locked by the ticket checker just as the train departed sligo! should this not have been cleaned in sligo when the train was swept out?

imo irish rail staff couldnt give a toss for passengers and would prefer if the services were cancelled due to not having trains as they will most likely get paid anyway for standing in an empty station reading the mirror and the management are a law onto themselves and will do as they please even if it means losing millions!

I have seen some daft posts on boards.ie, but your opening comment takes the biscuit. It takes no account of the legal process, manufacturer's schedules, delivery times etc. For goodness sakes get real.

The two sets were damaged beyond repair in the course of being shipped from Korea, and there then followed protracted legal discussions as to who was liable for the damage.

When that was finally resolved a further order for additional 3-car units was placed and the replacement units were added on to that. This would be the most cost effective solution for all concerned.

Cookie_Monster

those 2 6 car 22ks were destroyed in transport by rust weren't they?

If that is indeed the case what makes those different from any of the rest, is there the same potential issue?

BenShermin

For Gods sake Foggy Lad, give the health and safety lark a rest would you:rolleyes:?

Trains are bumpy in parts of Eastern Europe, and guess what, people over there use COMMON SENSE not to spill obviously hot coffee all over themselves. I say we should sack health and safety and hire common sense instead!

highlydebased

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

those 2 6 car 22ks were destroyed in transport by rust weren't they?

If that is indeed the case what makes those different from any of the rest, is there the same potential issue?

Apparently all the circuit boards were corroded, they reckon some noxious gas from what was previously transported in the container was still present and what caused it.

Hungerford

There are two factors at play here:

* IE are down three 22k sets: the one destroyed in shipping; the one that derailed at Portlaoise and the one that was taken out by vandals at Ferns. Therefore they cannot be used.

* The use of Mark 3s infringes Dick Fearn's religious beliefs or something. Therefore they cannot be used and must be destroyed at all costs.

So you're stuck with 29ks on unsuitable routes.

foggy_lad

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Apparently all the circuit boards were corroded, they reckon some noxious gas from what was previously transported in the container was still present and what caused it.

I notice most of the smoke sensors in the toilets of the new trains seem to be faulty or just overly sensitive, could this be due to more of that corrosion?

T Corolla

foggy_lad wrote: »

Today and on other previous occasions several trips on the Dublin-sligo service had 29000 railcars instead of proper intercity trains. Surely these rail cars are unsuitable for a bumpy 3hour journey? Also hot beverages were served which I noticed some passengers spilled because the ride was so bumpy! Should there have been only cold drinks available considering this? Also where are all the new very expensive intercity trains? Are they living up to the old "made in Taiwan" thing?

Foggylad why dont you take the bus to sligo,four hours long. The 29k are not that bad. I agree with you that the train can be uneven at some parts of the line. The trains have to be shared with Rosslare Europort in order to up passengers numbers on that service.

Judgement Day

T Corolla wrote: »

Foggylad why dont you take the bus to sligo,four hours long. The 29k are not that bad. I agree with you that the train can be uneven at some parts of the line. The trains have to be shared with Rosslare Europort in order to up passengers numbers on that service.

The trains are shared with the Rosslare line for operational reasons and public pressure. CIE/IE have no interest in upping passengers numbers on the Rosslare line and would be happy to close the line south of Bray/Arklow/Gorey - take your pick.

foggy_lad

what i dont understand is why the new trains are being used on very short commuter runs to newbridge and kildare yet this 3hour journey to sligo is left using awful railcarts?

Run_to_da_hills

foggy_lad wrote: »

what i dont understand is why the new trains are being used on very short commuter runs to newbridge and kildare yet this 3hour journey to sligo is left using awful railcarts?

The East deserves the Best.

Judgement Day

foggy_lad wrote: »

what i dont understand is why the new trains are being used on very short commuter runs to newbridge and kildare yet this 3hour journey to sligo is left using awful railcarts?

Well, what always happened in the past is what CIE/IE refer to as 'cascading' - which means as soon as the new stock gets really shabby on the primary routes it's dumped on to the Rosslare/Sligo lines etc.

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well, what always happened in the past is what CIE/IE refer to as 'cascading' - which means as soon as the new stock gets really shabby on the primary routes it's dumped on to the Rosslare/Sligo lines etc.

this.

i imagine it just down to numbers the newest nicest trains go on the busiest routes to try and make the company look better to the most people possible

KC61

foggy_lad wrote: »

what i dont understand is why the new trains are being used on very short commuter runs to newbridge and kildare yet this 3hour journey to sligo is left using awful railcarts?

It was part of an effort to keep fleets standard in each depot:

Portlaoise - 22000
Connolly - 22000
Drogheda - 29000 and 2800
Limerick - 2700
Cork - 2600
Inchicore - Mark 4

By using the 22k sets on Kildare you avoid having nightly transfers to/from Drogheda of 29k sets. There is some integration with other workings as well.

Judgement Day

KC61 wrote: »

It was part of an effort to keep fleets standard in each depot:

Portlaoise - 22000
Connolly - 22000
Drogheda - 29000 and 2800
Limerick - 2700
Cork - 2600
Inchicore - Mark 4

By using the 22k sets on Kildare you avoid having nightly transfers to/from Drogheda of 29k sets. There is some integration with other workings as well.

So reading through the spin, once again, as with employee rosters the railway is operated to suit CIE/IE requirements rather than passengers - how unusual. :rolleyes:

KC61

Judgement Day wrote: »

So reading through the spin, once again, as with employee rosters the railway is operated to suit CIE/IE requirements rather than passengers - how unusual. :rolleyes:

Personally, I would read it as being more cost efficient?

T Corolla

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well, what always happened in the past is what CIE/IE refer to as 'cascading' - which means as soon as the new stock gets really shabby on the primary routes it's dumped on to the Rosslare/Sligo lines etc.

Dublin-Sligo was the first to recieve the 22k trains. They are comfortable trains. There is no way those trains are in any way "shabby" as you say. I dont use the services on a regular basis but I have friends working in Dublin who travel daily on them. The only complaint they have is delays and lack of customer service not the trains

dowlingm

Less of the dog in the manger attitude folks - KC61 ain't Information Minister BK.

IE are down FOUR 22k sets (2 from the fertilizer corrosion, 1 derailed, 1 after track vandalism). However, where IE can be seen to be at fault is that they could have retained Mk3 sets in service to cover for the (three 22Ks up to last week) out of service but instead abandoned them to rustage (storage IE style) and running the remaining IC stock at unsustainable availability levels.

With the reduction in commuter levels IE plainly have 29Ks available and thus they are used (when not hauling DARTs to Drogheda). Time shuttling 22Ks from line to line is time drivers and equipment aren't spending hauling passengers. The response is rational, how they got there isn't.

dowlingm

Incidentally, there was an intention to give Sligo Mk3s but local representatives didn't consider them good enough. Reap what you sow...

Cookie_Monster

dowlingm wrote: »

Incidentally, there was an intention to give Sligo Mk3s but local representatives didn't consider them good enough. Reap what you sow...

D'oh!

foggy_lad

KC61 wrote: »

Personally, I would read it as being more cost efficient?

not for sligo customers who are paying for a real train but only getting a railcart without the comfort and services of a real train!

have irish rail reduced ticket prices to/from sligo for the lower standard of train being used?

Cookie_Monster

22k's are just as **** as 29k's
:pac:

Run_to_da_hills

Hungerford wrote: »

T the one that derailed at Portlaoise.

Is That the one with the pass through ripped in half.

It can be seen at the TCD from the M7 or mainline, I would have thought the would have hidden this out of view.

Judgement Day

T Corolla wrote: »

Dublin-Sligo was the first to recieve the 22k trains. They are comfortable trains. There is no way those trains are in any way "shabby" as you say. I dont use the services on a regular basis but I have friends working in Dublin who travel daily on them. The only complaint they have is delays and lack of customer service not the trains

I didn't say that the 22000s on the Sligo line were shabby but rather that the usual pattern of CIE/IE operation in the past has meant by the time 'secondary' routes receive better quality stock it has been well used on other routes - e.g.Kildare commuter etc.

T Corolla

I took the 1450 service from Mullingar to Dublin yesterday and was impressed to see from 30 people waiting in Mullingar for the train and more inpressed to see I had to walk down through 3 carriages to get a free seat. This train was a commuter railcar. For a wet Monday in the northwest and midlands good loadings for this service.

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

not for sligo customers who are paying for a real train but only getting a railcart without the comfort and services of a real train!

have irish rail reduced ticket prices to/from sligo for the lower standard of train being used?

did you miss the part where it's 1 train per day? or did your blinkers not allow you to see that part?

Cookie_Monster

schemingbohemia wrote: »

did you miss the part where it's 1 train per day?

thats hardly enough to encourage commuter usage now is it?

foggy_lad

It's a hired hour journey over very poor terrain and track and is usually full all the way to sligo so how about not using railcarts at all! They should be using trains from shorter routes that should really have railcarts on them like kildare or even portlaoise

Cookie_Monster

there's no "T" in Railcar!!!

lets be honest for a second, the 29ks aren't that bad, it could be worse, ya could have the old old 2600's

Judgement Day

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there's no "T" in Railcar!!!

lets be honest for a second, the 29ks aren't that bad, it could be worse, ya could have the old old 2600's

or the Park Royals!!! :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

or the Park Royals!!! :rolleyes:

ah i have such fond memories of scraping the ice off the windows(inside) of these auld carriages on frosty saturday mornings going into dublin, never really gave much thought to the people going to sligo in them as they usually didn't make it that far! thank god for progress!

Moonbeam

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Irish%20Railcars%20&%20DARTs/A&Bindex.html for anyone else that has no idea which is which.

Our man in Havana

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Is That the one with the pass through ripped in half.

It can be seen at the TCD from the M7 or mainline, I would have thought the would have hidden this out of view.

When did this incident happen?

KC61

Several months ago.

Victor

Hamndegger wrote: »

Can we take it that you have the knowledge and skills to fix broken trains in a few hours? Do you even know the nature of the faults that has the sets returned to Korea?

They suffered acid damage and are being scrapped.

However, there are still plenty of Mark 3s out there.

foggy_lad

Victor wrote: »

They suffered acid damage and are being scrapped.

However, there are still plenty of Mark 3s out there.

the two sets of orange mark3s in dundalk are taking a hammering from vandals:)

patrickc

foggy_lad wrote: »

the two sets of orange mark3s in dundalk are taking a hammering from vandals:)

do you just travel all the lines/routes each week? you seem to have every bus and train complaint on here..

and know whats going on at each stop, with each bus/train and at what station

well for some can travel the country and afford our transport prices;)

foggy_lad

patrickc wrote: »

do you just travel all the lines/routes each week? you seem to have every bus and train complaint on here..

and know whats going on at each stop, with each bus/train and at what station

well for some can travel the country and afford our transport prices;)

er no but if i did would it be any business of yours or of anyone else on here?

i also keep my eyes open and my head out of the clouds so i notice what goes on around me while others dont.