Latest RedC poll FG up 3%, Lab up 5%, FF nc, Green down 3%

IrishTonyO

The latest RedC poll released this evening have FG up 3% after the leadership challenge.

FF - 24% (no change)
FG - 33% (up 3%)
LAB- 27% (up 5%)
Green 2% (down 3%)
SF - 8% (down 2)
Others - 6% (down 2)

FG has gone up despite leadership challenge, but the most satisfying here is to see the Greens fall. I know there is a +/- 3% tolerance but still, they are a hairs width from extinction

Who for Taoiseach

Gilmore 40%
Kenny 29%
Cowen 18%

Any sign of the leaders %s?

IrishTonyO

Who for Taoiseach

Gilmore 40
Kenny 29
Cowen 18

edited OP with these as well

Pride Fighter

Who should be the next Taoiseach

Kenny 29, Gilmore 40 , Cowen 18.

nuac

Irish TOny O

Have you figures for SF and Independents?

IrishTonyO

nuac wrote: »

Irish TOny O

Have you figures for SF and Independents?

SF 8% down 2, am editing original message as I get them

Het-Field

IrishTonyO wrote: »

The latest RedC poll released this evening have FG up 3% after the leadership challenge.

FF - 24% (no change)
FG - 33% (up 3%)
LAB- 27% (up 5%)
Green 2% (down 3%)
SF - 8% (down 2)

FG has gone up despite leadership challenge, but the most satisfying here is to see the Greens fall. I know there is a +/- 3% tolerance but still, they are a hairs width from extinction

Who for Taoiseach

Gilmore 40%
Kenny 29%
Cowen 18%

Dont worry, the Greens have become a margin of error. It is possible that they have little or no support at the moment.

If FG decide to wield the knife after three poor polls, then why are FF not sharpening the daggers after FF have failed to capitalise on another poor poll for FF. Cowen's personal rating is in the gutter, and the party is stuck on a 24% rut.

The argument that FG/Lab is an unstable coalition is now seriously difficult for FF to proffer, as it is certain that FF will need the Labour Party next time out. The Greens will get one seat, and FF will suffer losses.

Biggins

Het-Field wrote: »

The Greens will get one seat...

Fair play. Your optimistic. :pac:

maynooth_rules

I am looking forward to the sense of excitement I will feel when the Greens collapse in the next election. I also look forward to Mary White coming to my front door. I am disgusted in myself for believing her **** and giving her my vote in the last election. Lesson well and truly learned

Biggins

Can't see why 24% are still supporting FF! It astounds me.

PeterIanStaker

If FF would only go the way of the Greens *sigh*

But there are too many stupid people in the country for that to happen.

bijapos

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

If FF and FG would only go the way of the Greens *sigh*

But there are too many stupid people in the country for that to happen.

Anyway, funny how people on this forum constantly take their eye off the ball and go on about the Greens, its been obvious for some time that they will get 1-3 seats in the next election and will not form a part of a new government, they are not the big news here.

For me the real issue is that this poll affirms the fact that the country is going from the old two party sytem to a three party one, it has now become acceptable to vote Labour for some who might never have thought about it in the past.

Nevertheless I dont see the percentage vote translating into seats, I still think that 35 is the max they will ever achieve, more like 30 though.

FG are holding steady but 33% is still bad for a party in opposition at the height of an economic crisis caused in the main part by the incumbents. They are still a country mile away from an overall majority and that is bad news for them.

And its proof that FFs vote is a minimum of 25%, probably more in the ballot cubicle itself, its good news for them in the current situation, should translate into 50-55 seats nationwide. A long long way from oblivion I'm afraid.

Iwasfrozen

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

If FF would only go the way of the Greens *sigh*

But there are too many stupid people in the country for that to happen.

It's not as stupid as you would think. Markets don't like political instability.

bijapos

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not as stupid as you would think. Markets don't like political instability.

Sorry, but replacing a corrupt right wing party (FF) with another corrupt right wing party (FG) in a democratic election does not amount to "political instability".

Byron85

bijapos wrote: »

Sorry, but replacing a corrupt right wing party (FF) with another corrupt right wing party (FG) in a democratic election does not amount to "political instability".

I'm not a FG supporter per se, but where is this corruption in the party that you are speaking of?

Biggins

bijapos wrote: »

Sorry, but replacing a corrupt right wing party (FF) with another corrupt right wing party (FG) in a democratic election does not amount to "political instability".

Don't ya mean "...does not amount to political stability" ?

Anyway, this is the first I have heard of FG being as possibly corrupt as FF! :eek:
Care to provide details or is this just another FF type poor attempt to tar all to they see as "enemies of the state" with an unfounded brush?

We will await your evidence that FG as of yet, can match the terrible track history of inter-seeding corruption - and still ongoing antics of FF...

I won't hold my breath though! I suspect it will take some time (if ever) to dig up enough stuff to match the level and decades of antics that are only known to FF.
Still, we will await for you to get back to us with such evidence.

Dub in the Sticks

Does anybody on this board understand real socio-economic politics?

It's not a fun game for cognoscenti or a fashion parade of who has the cutest leader.

Politically, there is no difference between any of the parties in the Dáil. They are all owned by the same bank. Have we learned nothing from all the Tribunals? Did the CAB teach us nothing? It's all about the money.

Ask yourself this question. When the Irish Government has to borrow money where do they go to?

Not Britain because Britain has a deficit.

Not the USA because the USA has a deficit.

Who loans them the money?

Who do they pay back?

DitS.

ParkRunner

Het-Field wrote: »

Dont worry, the Greens have become a margin of error. It is possible that they have little or no support at the moment.

It's incredible, it happened to the PD's and now the Greens, yet the party whose policies put the country into economic meltdown enjoy a sizeable hardcore support no matter what they do.

Badabing

Fianna Fail stay the same at 24% which is their core vote rougly so with the economy hopefully on the upturn they should be in a position to be in goverment after the next election. Intresting to hear if the 32 Fine Gael rebels will be happy with the poll today.

Biggins

EF wrote: »

It's incredible, it happened to the PD's and now the Greens, yet the party whose policies put the country into economic meltdown enjoy a sizeable hardcore support no matter what they do.

Sometimes craziness just can't be explained with rational reason.

bijapos

Biggins wrote: »

Anyway, this is the first I have heard of FG being as possibly corrupt as FF! :eek:

I said they are corrupt. I did not say they were as corrupt as FF. Try to read the post again.

Care to provide details or is this just another FF type poor attempt to tar all to they see as "enemies of the state" with an unfounded brush?

Well lets take my own area. Dun Laoghaire FG councillors have since the last local elections attemted to rezone several shopping centres (Nutgrove, Stilorgan, Carrickmines) against the wishes of the county manager and against what they said in the run up to the June 09 local elections. This despite the fact that Dundrum Shopping Centre phase II has been postponed for several years and the old shopping centre has been reopened. They have constantly rezoned (with FF) tracts of land here that defy rational thinking and are nothing to do with improving the local economy.

Btw I am not FF, on a number of occasions I have stated that I have always placed FF at the bottom of the list and FG directly above them when voting. Try to find evidence to the contrary, you won't find it.

We will await your evidence that FG as of yet, can match the terrible track history of inter-seeding corruption - and still ongoing antics of FF...

I hope they never match FF, fact is imo they are corrupt and Kenny has constantlt failed to rein in his own councillors. Bad breedin gground I say and the culture of corruption is in the party.

Incidentally can someone explain to me why under Noonan FG did not accept corporate donations, but Enda Kenny saw fit to overturn this and allow Fg to accept "donations".

I won't hold my breath though! I suspect it will take some time (if ever) to dig up enough stuff to match the level and decades of antics that are only known to FF.
Still, we will await for you to get back to us with such evidence

Try this for starters, local politician, article is a few weeks old: http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2010/jan/24/donations-had-no-bearing-on-planning-decision-says/

Biggins

bijapos wrote: »

I said they are corrupt. I did not say they were as corrupt as FF. Try to read the post again.

Fair enough - EVIDENCE???
You say the party is corrupt - please prove it?
This is Politics section where items more so are requested to be backed up with subsequent relevant material, links, evidence.
So far you have shown none, that the party is corrupt, so your claim holds very little weight.

...and for the record - I am NOT a FG fan.

Denerick

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

If FF would only go the way of the Greens *sigh*

But there are too many stupid people in the country for that to happen.

What about the people who genuinely believe a FG/LAB coalition will change the economic reality of this country? That cuts won't be needed? If the people who still vote FF are stupid, then the people who buy into Gilmores empty left wing rhetoric are positively retarded.

Denerick

Dub in the Sticks wrote: »

Does anybody on this board understand real socio-economic politics?

It's not a fun game for cognoscenti or a fashion parade of who has the cutest leader.

Politically, there is no difference between any of the parties in the Dáil. They are all owned by the same bank. Have we learned nothing from all the Tribunals? Did the CAB teach us nothing? It's all about the money.

Ask yourself this question. When the Irish Government has to borrow money where do they go to?

Not Britain because Britain has a deficit.

Not the USA because the USA has a deficit.

Who loans them the money?

Who do they pay back?

DitS.

+1

Unfortunately far too many people want to live in fantasy land were Kenny/Gilmore will create a new island full of gold underneath rainbows and endless supplies of 100k per annum jobs in 'high skill' sectors, with hospitals and universities round every corner in the land. Can we have a bit of realism, please?

IrishTonyO

Denerick wrote: »

+1

Unfortunately far too many people want to live in fantasy land were Kenny/Gilmore will create a new island full of gold underneath rainbows and endless supplies of 100k per annum jobs in 'high skill' sectors, with hospitals and universities round every corner in the land. Can we have a bit of realism, please?

Haven't seen any posters like you suggest above, but have seen many who think that FF have got us in the sh1t, and it is time for someone else to take control as they couldn't do as bad a job as FF has done already.

Denerick

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Haven't seen any posters like you suggest above, but have seen many who think that FF have got us in the sh1t, and it is time for someone else to take control as they couldn't do as bad a job as FF has done already.

I'd agree with that sentiment, but people who think that the only barrier to prosperity and recovery in this country is the Fianna Fáil party really need to check themselves into a mental institution.

Biggins

Denerick wrote: »

+1

Unfortunately far too many people want to live in fantasy land were Kenny/Gilmore will create a new island full of gold underneath rainbows and endless supplies of 100k per annum jobs in 'high skill' sectors, with hospitals and universities round every corner in the land. Can we have a bit of realism, please?

I only wish Dub in the Sticks would provide some answers besides posting conspiracy mood type questions too!

bijapos

Biggins wrote: »

Fair enough - EVIDENCE???
You say the party is corrupt - please prove it?
This is Politics section where items more so are requested to be backed up with subsequent relevant material, links, evidence.
So far you have shown none, that the party is corrupt, so your claim holds very little weight.

...and for the record - I am NOT a FG fan.

You don't seem to have bothered to read the post or the link. "Donations" off developers in John Baileys case are imo corrupt payments. Tip of the iceberg here.

If you believe that FG are an honest, corruption free party then you are simply naive. They may be less corrupt than FF, still does not make them clean and honest in my book.

Eliot Rosewater

I partly agree with IrishTonyO. Democracy is about accountability, and over the past years FF have pursued polices to the detriment of the economy. I obviously want to punish them for this. But there's no point doing this by voting for SWP or Eirigi; that amounts to cutting off your nose to spite your face. We have to look into the future too, and try and see what party would provide the best policies in the coming years. At the moment FF are taking some austerity measures, not enough, it seems to me, but it's lot better that the wishy-washy capture all votes promises from levy-is-a-spending-cut Labour.

I'm not overly enamoured with Fine Gael, either.

Biggins

bijapos wrote: »

You don't seem to have bothered to read the post or the link. "Donations" off developers in John Baileys case are imo corrupt payments. Tip of the iceberg here.

If you believe that FG are an honest, corruption free party then you are simply naive. They may be less corrupt than FF, still does not make them clean and honest in my book.

So one example adds up to a whole corrupt party?
Laughable, just laughable. Sorry.
I see no evidence that FG (or any other main mainstream party) is compromisingly corrupt - to any degree or as much as Fianna Fail.

Your attempted tainting just don't wash but I'm sure you will keep trying without further backup evidence to prove your claim.

If your still going to make such claims, be prepared to back them up or be called out on them.
Your not playing in the kids playground here where just anything that is thrown out, goes unchallanged.

Fine gael are too inept to be corrupt.

As for the poll it's ridiculous,the 2nd ridiculous one in a row...

I mean a third of the people who want Gilmore as Taoiseach have said elsewhere in the poll that they are not voting labour :rolleyes::rolleyes:

If thats the caliber of intellectual red c are polling,then their polls are worthless.

IrishTonyO

Deleted User wrote: »

Fine gael are too inept to be corrupt.

As for the poll it's ridiculous,the 2nd ridiculous one in a row...

I mean a third of the people who want Gilmore as Taoiseach have said elsewhere in the poll that they are not voting labour :rolleyes::rolleyes:

If thats the caliber of intellectual red c are polling,then their polls are worthless.

The poll asks questions with multiple choice answers, people may want to vote FF/FG and may also think that Eamon Gilmore would be a better Taoiseach. They do not vote for Taoiseach they vote for their local representatives, however that does not stop them preferring gilmore to be Taoiseach. It just means that the question of Taoiseach is a bit irrelevant

bijapos

Biggins wrote: »

So one example adds up to a whole corrupt party?
Laughable, just laughable. Sorry.

I gave you examples of my own area, not the whole country.

While your at it here is a good article on the well connected FG senator Eugene Regan, also from my area, not saying he is corrupt but it shows what the party is made of.

I see no evidence that FG (or any other main mainstream party) is compromisingly corrupt - to any degree or as much as Fianna Fail.

Like I said, I never said they were as corrupt.

Your attempted tainting just don't wash but I'm sure you will keep trying without further backup evidence to prove your claim.

If your still going to make such claims, be prepared to back them up or be called out on them.

Your not playing in the kids playground here where just anything that is thrown out, goes unchallanged.

Dodgy rezonings by my county councillors, dodgy payments to my county councillors is enough for me.

And something else you seemed to have forgotten or ignored. Why did Kenny reverse Noonans stance on "corporate donations", and does/will this influence their policies? I've got my own idea on the answer to this.

bijapos

Deleted User wrote: »

Fine gael are too inept to be corrupt.

Funny, must remember this.

Biggins

bijapos wrote: »

I gave you examples of my own area, not the whole country...

The problem is that you refer back to one or two individuals.
That don't mean the party is fundamentally corrupt, from its continuing leaderships to the vast majority of its front-bench or indeed its party membership.
Every organisation will have its rotten apples - be it FF, FG or whomever.
To deny that, is to stick ones head in the sand.
- But to currently try to portray FG as a party that is uncomprehendingly corrupt is one very serious allegation - and so far STILL I have seen no evidence of this.
I see one or two individuals, but no linkage to prove your over broad painted allegation/assessment.

* There is no continuing multiple leadership financial antics...
* There is no "boys club" ("Drumcondra Mafia", "Golden Circle" to just name FF two) in existence that has been exposed...
* There are no tribunals into the dealing of FG party members...
* There are no unpaid tax issues with any FG members that I know of...
* There is no wide-scale embracing of others that have been shown to be corrupt...
* There is no integration between other financial banking sectors and party membership that has been show to exist...
* FG members are not handing out payoffs with perks and pensions - besides senate seats...
* There are no equivalent examples of Berties, Beverleys, Charlies and Seanies so far with FG or acquaintances. Not to mention equivalent Liam Lawlor's, Ray Burke's, Des Traynor's, John Ellis's, Denis Foley's, Padraic Flynn's, Willie O'Dea's and Michael Collins's...

...I could go on very easily.

So please show how the FG party is from its foundation upwards in structure and membership, is inherently corrupt please?

bijapos

Biggins wrote: »

The problem is that you refer back to one or two individuals.

Jesus, do I have to keep repeting myself. I am aware of what is going on im my constituency, I cannot be expected to know the ins and outs of every Fg councillor/TD/Senator in the country.

- But to currently try to portray FG as a party that is uncomprehendingly corrupt is one very serious allegation - and so far STILL I have seen no evidence of this.

Again, I never said they are uncomprehendingly corrupt, but they do have a malaise and they have not dealt with this. I have no doubt that if we could wave a magic wand and get FG councillors, TDs and Senators past and present to speak unconditionally then we would be much wiser but it is not going to happen.

Until then it is my opinion that they are a dishonest party, open to corruption with some of their members that the leadership has faied to deal with in a satisfactory manner and that their continued policy of receiving corporate "donations" leaves them open to corruption and is in itself wrong.

Biggins

bijapos wrote: »

Again, I never said they are uncomprehendingly corrupt...

Meanwhile previously...

bijapos wrote: »

Sorry, but replacing a corrupt right wing party (FF) with another corrupt right wing party (FG)...

Excuse me!!!
All I see from a previous quote is a broad claim of FG being corrupt - not individual names.

Laminations

I think what Biggins is trying to point out to you is that you don't have examples of widespread dodgy behaviour at all levels of the party, as you admit

bijapos wrote: »

I cannot be expected to know the ins and outs of every Fg councillor/TD/Senator in the country.

yet you make sweeping accusations of corruption, even in the one post, such as

Until then it is my opinion that they are a dishonest party, open to corruption

You don't have the evidence to back this up. You just have a serious disagreement with local planning issues. And saying 'replacing one corrupt party with another' makes it sound like you think they are equivolent so maybe you should rephrase

imme

Deleted User wrote: »

Fine gael are too inept to be corrupt.

As for the poll it's ridiculous,the 2nd ridiculous one in a row...

I mean a third of the people who want Gilmore as Taoiseach have said elsewhere in the poll that they are not voting labour :rolleyes::rolleyes:

If thats the caliber of intellectual red c are polling,then their polls are worthless.

Some people think polls are worthless full stop.
Why wouldn't people think Gilmore would be a competemt Taoiseach, but for whatever reason not transfer that into a vote for Labour.

I don't think RedC gives aptitude tests to people that they poll.

irishh_bob

EF wrote: »

It's incredible, it happened to the PD's and now the Greens, yet the party whose policies put the country into economic meltdown enjoy a sizeable hardcore support no matter what they do.

its not incredible at all , no green or pd fought at the gpo or shined dev,s boot or whatever , most people in ireland still vote based on which way their grandparents voted

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

Fine gael are too inept to be corrupt.

Stunning insight there.....are you somehow trying to imply that competence is related to the level of corruption ?

Because if that were true, FF would be squeaky clean! :rolleyes:

Deleted User wrote: »

If thats the caliber of intellectual red c are polling,then their polls are worthless.

Maybe they could do a test before polling; one valid question might be to "spell calibre" correctly ?

freewheeler

Badabing wrote: »

Fianna Fail stay the same at 24% which is their core vote rougly so with the economy hopefully on the upturn they should be in a position to be in goverment after the next election. Intresting to hear if the 32 Fine Gael rebels will be happy with the poll today.

Are you serious? the economy is on the upturn? give me a break..you STILL actually believe what these proven liars are spouting? Hopefully after the next election FF will join their fellow gombeens the 'greens' and cease to exist (if there is a God)

johngalway

Doesn't matter a whit whether people think Gilmore would make a better Taoiseach than Enda or Biffo. Which ever party has the most seats, unless it was a very very tight margin, in a coalition would demand Taoiseachs post, otherwise they look weak & desperate to get into power.

IrishTonyO

A new political party is to register in the next few weeks.

"Backed largely by former members of the Green Party, the new grouping said it will be concerned with issues like transparency in politics, use of the State’s natural resources, environmental issues and care for the less well off."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0628/1224273468181.html

Denerick

IrishTonyO wrote: »

A new political party is to register in the next few weeks.

"Backed largely by former members of the Green Party, the new grouping said it will be concerned with issues like transparency in politics, use of the State’s natural resources, environmental issues and care for the less well off."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0628/1224273468181.html

Yeah, good luck with that. You and your half dozen eccentric pals

IrishTonyO

Denerick wrote: »

Yeah, good luck with that. You and your half dozen eccentric pals

I am not a member of any party and please keep your insults to yourself. The article is in The Irish Times for anyone to read just like I did.

Denerick

IrishTonyO wrote: »

I am not a member of any party and please keep your insults to yourself. The article is in The Irish Times for anyone to read just like I did.

It was a compliment.

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Stunning insight there.....are you somehow trying to imply that competence is related to the level of corruption ?

Because if that were true, FF would be squeaky clean! :rolleyes:

I'm saying what I said,I think they're too inept to be corrupt,they are more a reactionary party in my view.

Maybe they could do a test before polling; one valid question might be to "spell calibre" correctly ?

You might want to acquaint yourself with firefox spell-checking and american english ,before thinking you're onto a sure thing trying to undermine my diction-thank you

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm saying what I said,I think they're too inept to be corrupt,they are more a reactionary party in my view.

OK. Then I'll counter that FF are too corrupt to be inept.

Deleted User wrote: »

You might want to acquaint yourself with firefox spell-checking and american english ,before thinking you're onto a sure thing trying to undermine my diction-thank you

I am well aware of American English. They use it in America.

bijapos

Laminations wrote: »

I think what Biggins is trying to point out to you is that you don't have examples of widespread dodgy behaviour at all levels of the party, as you admit

As I said I know what my own local representatives are up to, i don't keep a track of what every councillor, TD and Senator in the country are up to, and when I scratch the surface of FG's reps in Dun Laoghaire I do not like what I see.
Btw I forgot Sean Barrett DL's very own FG TD, he takes money off developers too, of course this is no proof of corruption. One of his donators is Donagh Barry . Another is Monarch Properties as cited in the Mahon Tribunal.

You just have a serious disagreement with local planning issues.

Yes I do have an issue with constant rezoning of land in 2010 when we are in the middle of a financial crisis where wild rezoning was a major contributory factor. I have an issue with it when FG mouth off against it in the run up to the local elections in 2009 and then turn around and rezone contrary to all advice by the county manager.

And saying 'replacing one corrupt party with another' makes it sound like you think they are equivolent so maybe you should rephrase

I dont think they are the equivalent. In the same way that Shelbourne are a soccer team as are Manchester United, both are soccer teams but they play on different level.

For what its worth change it to "replacing a massively corrupt party with a corrupt party".


Btw why did Enda Kenny change FG's position on not receiving corporate donations to one of receiving them, and does this not leave FG open to "influencing" by those same donators.

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK. Then I'll counter that FF are too corrupt to be inept.

It doesn't counter anything to me as I've no love for FF.
I do have a recently lessened opinion of FG though.

I am well aware of American English. They use it in America.

Well then don't belittle my use of it thanks

Back on topic,my central problem with this poll stands and that is,a third of respondents who "apparently" want Gilmore,the new Bertie, as Taoiseach indicated elsewhere in the poll that they weren't voting for his party.

Now that makes me raise my eyebrow at the veracity of the survey,that is all.