Moving from N Ireland, can I sign on?

BillMcErlane

Hello folks,

I am from Northern Ireland and have just finished my degree in Computing at University of Ulster. I wish to move to Waterford, it came up as a friend suggested it; as he has recently moved into his own place. I have a few friends down there.
Now I know the market is hard for graduates so I would not like to move unless I had some form money coming in, as my savings are not enough to sustain me for a prolonged period of time. My friends suggest signing on however, I am unsure if I can. They told me all I need is a PPS number, being from the north is it hard to obtain. Also if I where to move down how long should the whole process take?

Cheers, William

Richard

BillMcErlane wrote: »

Hello folks,

I am from Northern Ireland and have just finished my degree in Computing at University of Ulster. I wish to move to Waterford, it came up as a friend suggested it; as he has recently moved into his own place. I have a few friends down there.
Now I know the market is hard for graduates so I would not like to move unless I had some form money coming in, as my savings are not enough to sustain me for a prolonged period of time. My friends suggest signing on however, I am unsure if I can. They told me all I need is a PPS number, being from the north is it hard to obtain. Also if I where to move down how long should the whole process take?

Cheers, William

When I moved down south in 1999 it took a few weeks to get a PRSI number (I presume that's the same thing). I've never claimed any allowances however. From memory there was a thread on boards.ie about people originally from the Republic who moved back from the UK (possibly from NI, not sure) and they had difficulty getting unemployment benefit. I imagine it'd be more difficult if you've never been legally resident in the Republic.

I'm sure someone else will have more info - it would also be worth checking out the Irish Govt websites.

RichardAnd

I don't mean to sound obnoxious or anything but I don't think you should be moving down south simply live off welfare and be with your friends. Waterford has been especially badly hit by the downturn so jobs are tight there and the degree, I am sorry to say, probably won't help you much unless you have experience to back it up.

What I can tell you is that I am pretty sure you can't just draw the dole without having paid tax here for a few years. You'd be better off staying off where you are and looking for work before you move.

sceptre

Moving to State Benefits (from Irish Economy), where I suspect they don't editorialise:)

Balagan

This contains a lot of the info you need

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/irish-social-welfare-system/social-assistance-payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland

gustafo

as you put it 'some form of money coming in' Are you having a laugh or what why should the government of the republic of ireland give out money to somebody who has been paying british income tax....oh makes me so mad but this is the europeon as they say.........what a load of bolloxs

Graces7

Wondering re reciprocal agreements within the EU on this.

Other threads mention this. eg foregn EU nationals who certainly have not paid tax here claiming unemployment.

Whether opinion says it is "right" or not ?

We came here as many do from the UK; while our pension etc come in from the UK, ie our main income, we can claim other allowances here.

dudara

gustafo please stick to the topic at hand and do not digress. Take the time to read the forum charter for further information.

dudara

Kotek Besar

Assuming BillMcErlane was born on this island, he is an Irish citizen. EU regulations are not relevant..

Yes, you can come to Waterford and claim Jobseeker's Allowance if you are entitled to it.

To get Jobseeker's Allowance you must:

• Be unemployed
• Be over 18 and under 66 years of age
• Be capable of work
• Be available for and genuinely seeking work
• Satisfy the means test
• Meet the Habitual Residence Condition.

dlofnep

Hi Bill,

I'm a Waterford man, and I've just finished my degree in IT also. You may wish to look into applying for a job in TalkTalk (Formerly AOL). They are always hiring people. It might keep you ticking over until you find a job that you like. Food for thought.

As for your question - you will be entitled to the same as someone from Waterford is, just incase you can't find work.

gary the great

You more than likely wont satisfy the habitual residence condition and therefore wont get jobseekers allowance

Kotek Besar

gary the great wrote: »

You more than likely wont satisfy the habitual residence condition and therefore wont get jobseekers allowance

Do you know what the habitual residence condition is?

Have a read.. http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/pages/habres.aspx

The conditions are complex, but in short:

"it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown, that a person is not habitually resident in the State at the date of the making of the application concerned unless he has been present in the State or any other part of the Common Travel Area for a continuous period of 2 years ending on that date."

The Common Travel Area consists of England, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

cee_jay

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Do you know what the habitual residence condition is?

Have a read.. http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/pages/habres.aspx

The conditions are complex, but in short:

The Common Travel Area consists of England, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

Being resident in the CTA doesn't necessarily mean you are habitually resident in Ireland though. They are becoming more and more aware of welfare tourism, and unless you can show that your centre of interest is Ireland, and have family ties and links here, and have worked here for at least 15 out of 18 months, then most likely you will not be habitually resident.
Every case is depends on its own circumstances however.

Kotek Besar

cAr0l wrote: »

Being resident in the CTA doesn't necessarily mean you are habitually resident in Ireland though. They are becoming more and more aware of welfare tourism, and unless you can show that your centre of interest is Ireland, and have family ties and links here, and have worked here for at least 15 out of 18 months, then most likely you will not be habitually resident.
Every case is depends on its own circumstances however.

Having family ties and links to the state of Ireland is not part of the HRC.

Employment in the state of Ireland for 15 out of 18 months is not part of the HRC.

Please read Habitual Residence Condition ‑ Guidelines for Deciding Officers on the determination of Habitual Residence.

Additionally,

Bearing in mind the presumption clause in Section 246 (see Part 4), and the reciprocal arrangements with the UK concerning the *Common Travel Area (CTA), for the purpose of this factor periods of residence within the CTA immediately prior to moving to live in Ireland should be treated the same as periods of residence in Ireland. This arrangement applies only to UK citizens and EEA nationals who had retained their centre of interest within the Common Travel Area during these periods.

cee_jay

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Having family ties and links to the state of Ireland is not part of the HRC.

Employment in the state of Ireland for 15 out of 18 months is not part of the HRC.

Please read Habitual Residence Condition ‑ Guidelines for Deciding Officers on the determination of Habitual Residence.

Additionally,

From your above link:

5.4 - Applicant's main centre of interest
An applicant's main centre of interest, at the time of application, must be in the Republic of Ireland.

Consideration of a person's main centre of interest is an important factor in determining habitual residence. A person's main centre of interest would normally be in the country in which s/he has lived all his/her life and has his/her home and family. This may be maintained even where a person lives and works for a period of time in another country.

In determining where an applicant's main centre of interest lies, the following should be taken into consideration:

location of home,
location of close family (spouse/children etc.),
nature of employment,
does membership of clubs, etc. indicate that s/he is integrating into society here?
Location of financial/bank accounts and other assets


Nature and pattern of Employment
The applicant's employment record in Ireland and elsewhere and in particular the nature of any previous occupations and plans for the future are relevant. A person who has lived here for an appreciable period and is working lawfully in stable employment may be presumed to be habitually resident here unless there are particular circumstances to rebut this presumption.


Also from the above link:

Length and Continuity of residence in Ireland or in any other particular country
Habitual residence cannot be determined simply by reference to a specific period of residence in a country. The length and continuity of a person's residence must be considered along with the other factors. An applicant who has a home or close family in another country would normally retain habitual residence in that country (see Paragraph 5.4).

However, the longer persons reside continuously in a country, the more likely they are to develop their main centre of interest in that country and to lose the ties with their previous country of residence.

Bearing in mind the presumption clause in Section 246 (see Part 4), and the reciprocal arrangements with the UK concerning the *Common Travel Area (CTA), for the purpose of this factor periods of residence within the CTA immediately prior to moving to live in Ireland should be treated the same as periods of residence in Ireland. This arrangement applies only to UK citizens and EEA nationals who had retained their centre of interest within the Common Travel Area during these periods.

Kotek Besar

..which means that the OP would normally be habitually resident if he moved to Waterford from Northern Ireland in search of work. If he found work, he would automatically be considered habitually resident for the purpose of family benefits, if applicable.

gary the great

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Do you know what the habitual residence condition is?

Have a read.. http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/pages/habres.aspx

The conditions are complex, but in short:

The Common Travel Area consists of England, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

Yes i am aware of habitual residence.

As Carol said, living in NI and beign in the CTA will only help in satisfying one of the factors. Centre of intrest, employment record in the state, nature and purpose of residence in Ireland (ie saying he came to the Republic to work when there is no work here) and his future intentions will also be considered.

From the brief details given in the post, id put money on him not satisfying the condition. Although everyones situation is different.

Kotek Besar

gary the great wrote: »

Yes i am aware of habitual residence.

As Carol said, living in NI and beign in the CTA will only help in satisfying one of the factors. Centre of intrest, employment record in the state, nature and purpose of residence in Ireland (ie saying he came to the Republic to work when there is no work here) and his future intentions will also be considered.

From the brief details given in the post, id put money on him not satisfying the condition. Although everyones situation is different.

If the OP is a UK national he is entitled to register in the state as a jobseeker and must be treated equally with Irish nationals, in accordance with Article 24 of EU Directive 2004/38/EC. However, there is also provision in this Directive for Ireland to withhold social assistance if it is deemed to be an unreasonable burden on the state and the UK national has not been employed or self-employed in the state.