Summer Tour Over: Lessons Learnt, Going Forward

LeeroyJones

In order to keep match threads "match threads", I thought to create this to discuss where Ireland are going, and how much or little we have developed over the last 3 matches

3 Matches
3 Defeats

Ireland 28-66 New Zealand
Ireland 28-31 New Zealand Maori
Ireland 15-22 Australia

Not great reading, but better now than in 14-15 months.

What are the pros and cons that we can take out of the tour in general?

outwest

big pro, trimble, buckley
big con, kearny and tol


good to see corinin get a few caps,

disapointing decision form kidney dont know why irish coach never use the bench

Otacon

Pros:
Buckley has shown that he can do the job, maybe not very well, but better than Hayes can.
We have two fantastic International-standard outhalves [proven before the tour but still]
Younger players like Ruddock are not as far away from the team as they might believe, which should give them a psychological boost for next year.

Cons:
When our good players have bad games, Kidney is either reluctant or oblivious to making changes.
Our scrum is going to get us kicked out of the WC earlier than we should be.
We may be trying harder, but we still can't quite play the offloading game.

PhatPiggins

Johnaton Sexton should play every minute of every game between now and the WC.

Dan Touhy and Sean Cronin are going to have 50 caps for Ireland each.

Tony Buckley might just make it after all.

Ireland need Paul O Connell to play rugby again as even when he's playing average he's the best lock in Ireland.

Roman Poite really,really needs to gat laid.

corny

We've learned very little positive and a lot negative IMO. Kidney talks about blooding new players but for me his hand was forced. He's a very conservative coach and if he had the chance he'd have played a full strength side in the tests. Our scrum will guarantee a 10 point headstart for the opposition when it matters.

For me the tour has also shown up fundamental errors in our gameplan. Very conservative is not going to cut it down there. They seem to thrive on mistakes and counter attacking while we seem happy to kick and defend. There is only one outcome.

Otacon

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Johnaton Sexton should play every minute of every game between now and the WC.

While he is in form, yes I agree.

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Dan Touhy and Sean Cronin are going to have 50 caps for Ireland each.

Cronin has a lot of work to do with his line-out throwing, but around the park, he has it. Touhy is also rough around the edges but gametime will sand them down.

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Tony Buckley might just make it after all.

Indeed. Now let's pray he gets the gametime he needs when he comes back home.

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Ireland need Paul O Connell to play rugby again as even when he's playing average he's the best lock in Ireland.

Agree again.

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Roman Poite really,really needs to gat laid.

I can't help there.

wonton

for me, i think were are in a bit of a strange place, we've got great players that might be gettin a bit old and are not in their peak anymore, o'connell,david wallace, o,driscoll .

then weve got some great young players comin in from the under 20s and that would prob not be ready for the world cup next year.



its on the wing, fullback and centre were we could have massive coices come next year.

on wing we have zebo,fionn carr,keith earls, conway,horgan,trimble,fitzgerald,bowe,o'halloran,murphy,

centre- wallace,o driscoll, darren cave,duffy,mcfadden,earls, maybe spence and macken, griffen

fullback-felix jones,conway,murphy,kearney and possibly fitzgerald and duffy

LeeroyJones

I do find it worrying though that despite us playing against a weak Aus front row we still couldn't take advantage, in fact the opposite.

Healy and Buckley look like they will be our first choice props so no real excuses

Arrogance

Positives

• Jonathan Sexton has cemented his place at 10.
• Jonathan Sexton has regained his kicking after injury (13/14 over the tour)
• Rhys Ruddock is now internationally capped.
• Trimble had a great tour and could pip both Earls and Fitzgerald for the 11 jersey.
• Cronin got some caps.
• Healy held his own in the scrums throughout.
• Buckley looks to be a better alternative than Hayes in 2011.
• The emergence of Touhy as an international standard lock.
• Geordan Murphy's form.
• Paddy Wallace's form.
• The emergence of the Sexton and Wallace partnership

Negatives

• Tomas O'Leary shown up as completely not international standard.
• Kidney's reluctance to make changes during games.
• Kearneys continued sliding form.
• Scrum completely shown up.
• Lack of an offloading game proven costly against the best (NZ)
• So far off SH teams it's depressing.
• O'Gara has still not learnt to tackle

What we've learnt?

Sexton is far and away the best outhalf in the country. Wallace is the best option for 12 with Sexton starting. O'Leary should be third choice scrumhalf behind Reddan and Boss. Our scrum needs vast amounts of work. Touhy is a much better option than Mick O'Driscoll. Cronin still isnt better than Flannery (yet). Healy is improving his scrummaging. Buckley CAN replace Hayes.
But most importanty :
If we're to have any chance in 2011 we need to change the way we play the game. We need to play a more running, attack oriented game. Less kicking, more running from deep, more offloads. It's only when you play like the best that you beat the best. Less of this, were going to try and get them to play at our level, our level is a lower skill level, lets get to the higher skill level. We did it in 2007 AIs, Wales did it in 2005 GS, France do it every WC. Why cant we?

PhatPiggins

That repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it correct.

Arrogance

wonton wrote: »

its on the wing, fullback and centre were we could have massive coices come next year.

on wing we have zebo,fionn carr,keith earls, conway,horgan,trimble,fitzgerald,bowe,o'halloran,murphy,

centre- wallace,o driscoll, darren cave,duffy,mcfadden,earls, maybe spence and macken, griffen

fullback-felix jones,conway,murphy,kearney and possibly fitzgerald and duffy

You're being overly optimistic.

For instance on wing. Zebo will be nowhere near an international team next year and rightly so. I doubt he'll get anything more than a few token ML games. Horgan is past it and was shown up on this tour already. O'Halloran once again like Zebo will be nowhere near the international team. Johnne Murphy has shown he is distinctively average and not international standard. Andrew Conway could break through next season but theres no guarantee. For two wing positions we have : Earls, Carr, Fitzgerald, Bowe, possibly Conway).

Centre is ridiculously overly optimistic. Spence, Macken, Griffen wont be even playing for their provinces, they might have an odd start or appearance off the bench but no way should they be considered options! Duffy isn't a centre and should be considered an option there unless absolutely desperate. I dont know why you left out D'arcy as well.
For 2 positions at centre we have : D'arcy, O'Driscoll, Wallace, McFadden, Earls (who is a winger at this stage and will be covering there) and Cave (who is average and would get shown up against a top team). Now, a if we had a 2 injuries to wingers and 2 injuries to our centres (very possible) we would be very short. France could lose 10 backline players and still field a better team than if we lost 3 or 4.

Full back is covered fine by Kearney and Murphy but Kearney is out of form and Murphy is getting on and could be prone to injury. Felix Jones is recovering from a serious neck injury and I doubt he'll be able to play well enough this season after such a long lay off to be international standard. Fitzgerald has never played full back in the top level and as for Conway well see my point when you mentioned him for wing spot. So essentially we have Kearney, Murphy and Conway (once again it remains to be seen if Conway will actually break through)

We're over stating our depth to be honest.

RuggieBear

talk rugby. posts deleted. no more warnings

PhatPiggins

RuggieBear wrote: »

talk rugby. posts deleted. no more warnings

Sorry my post was in reference to Ireland making the same mistakes over and over again. Should have been clearer.

thomond2006

Positives
Tony Buckley & Cian Healy at scrum time

Buckley in the loose, could be our best ball carrier in the front five come RWC.

Dan Tuohy

Rhys Ruddock's life imprisonment

Andrew Trimble

Paddy Wallace

Jonny Sexton

Not getting tanked by Australia (yes we have been reduced to this being a positive)

Negatives
Injuries denying the likes of McFadden a chance.

Poor at the lineout, down to missing personnel I'd say though.

Jamie Heaslip.

Declan Kidney's substitution policy, particularly with O'Leary.

Declan Kidney has his favourites. How Heaslip was allowed to sit on the bench after he was sent off is unbelievable. He should have been made sit on the team bus/dressing room in disgrace. Also many of his selections underline certain favouritisms.

MOD selected ahead of Tuohy.

Rob Kearney selected ahead of Geordan Murphy.

Sean Cronin was disappointing, still is young though so I wouldn't give up on him yet.

Tomas O'Leary's general poor play and decision making stifling our backline.

PhatPiggins

Dont understand why people are still knocking MOD. Is he world class no, will Touhy be a better player in the future maybe, did he deliver in the lineout and leadership departments yes.

The lineout was far better today then last week despite Cronin's throwing. People look at MOD and go he's too slow,doesn't do enough around the park etc but thats not what he's picked for. He gave O Leary some get ball from the middle/back of the lineout not his fault that f all was done with it.

LeeroyJones

To be honest I was one who was criticising MOD's selection because I wanted someone like Tuohy to have a go. But now that I think of it, that pack needed someone with MOD's experience.

I hope Tuohy can add to the development he made on this tour and put himself firmly in the mix for the World Cup squad of 30

PhatPiggins

LeeroyJones wrote: »

To be honest I was one who was criticising MOD's selection because I wanted someone like Tuohy to have a go. But now that I think of it, that pack needed someone with MOD's experience.

I hope Tuohy can add to the development he made on this tour and put himself firmly in the mix for the World Cup squad of 30

If he can improve his lineouts he could be a super player. I'd like to see more of O Donohue as well. He's very athletic and would be a good foil to a bulkier player like Touhy or Hines.

dromdrom

Have to say was expecting a lot more from Jennings today, missed a lot of tackles (the one for the Aus try just before half time today was costly). This was his chance and I don't really think he put his hand up.

CouchSmart

There's definitely a lot to take out of this tour. It tested our depth and we luckily discovered some future gems but we also saw that some players are far from the finished article.

• We have one of the worst scrums in world rugby. We struggled today against a severely under powered OZ scrum. Healy hasn't really kicked on from his great performances for Leinster last year. Buckley can't scrummage. Will he be the tight head for 2011, I have my doubts. Hopefully he or someone else will really up there games at scrum time next season.

• Kicking the ball away just gives it to your opponent, who if they have any sense will just run back at you. Running is what the new interpretations favour. It is near impossible to get turnovers now. We saw today that we had to defend for long periods while the Wallabies kept coming at us. Don't kick the ball away.

• We need to find someone who can fill in at 13. O'Driscoll is far from finished but he has looked off the pace for large parts of this year. Captain or not, no player should be untouchable. Even slotting someone in there for 10 minutes at the end of games would help. Continuing to play him for the full 80 is very shortsighted. His pace is gone, against OZ he was put into a huge hole and failed to do anything with it, if he was faster I think something might have come about. Sorry BOD, you're still awesome!

• Chris Henry isn't up to it yet. I really thought he could start to challenge Heaslip soon. Can't see it happening now. We need our first choice backrow fit. Or at least two of them fit. There is depth but no where near as much as I would like, especially since a lot of players seem injury prone(Fez, Leamy, McLoughlin).

• Sexton-Wallace combo looks like the real deal. Hopefully this will continue to develop over the next year. Could be devastating in attack.

Risteard

Tbh, if we're listing Healy and Buckley as positives at scrum time it just shows what a low standard we've set for ourselves with regard to it. Not that it's all their fault but they do play a part.

phog

Positives for me were we scored 4 tires against the All Blacks and on another day maybe just maybe a dream could have come true.

Negatives for me was conceeding 66 points to the ABs, Healsip's folly and all aspects of todays game, we were just so poor.

subfreq

More than anything it has to be the scrum surely.

The Aussies front row are barely test player standard, only being given a go because Deans wants to make sure his emergency back up in 18 months has some experience at the top level. He could have called in Dunning and Baxter if he really wanted to tighten things up in the last few games.

They laid down a marker three weeks ago and said the first game against England was not acceptable and Noriaga will beat you into form. Gave them no place to hide but said you are good enough now harden up and go out and get better. Fantastic coaching for me.

They then proved they could coach them to be better even with changing personnel over a three weeks period and did not accept any excuses.

The Irish scrum was simply second rate to the Aussies today and that should send out shock waves.

Gert seemingly can't coach a performance or any kind of improvement out of them. If anything they are progressively getting worse.

No way am i pinning this on the front row. I was impressed with Healy and Buckley this tour and Cronin showed potential. It's down to all 8 working as a unit.

Dave Joyce

Centre is ridiculously overly optimistic. Spence, Macken, Griffen wont be even playing for their provinces, they might have an odd start or appearance off the bench but no way should they be considered options! Duffy isn't a centre and should be considered an option there unless absolutely desperate. I dont know why you left out D'arcy as well.

Jesus, Gavin Duffy plays at Fullback for Connacht so COULD BE CONSIDERED as an option there HOWEVER, your quote above is amazing considering you DON'T then even list Duffy as an option at centre, particularly when he played well in the Baa Baa's and Maori games!!

We need to find someone who can fill in at 13. O'Driscoll is far from finished but he has looked off the pace for large parts of this year. Captain or not, no player should be untouchable. Even slotting someone in there for 10 minutes at the end of games would help. Continuing to play him for the full 80 is very shortsighted. His pace is gone, against OZ he was put into a huge hole and failed to do anything with it, if he was faster I think something might have come about. Sorry BOD, you're still awesome!

Totally agree with all of your post especially the last sentence. This was why I intially said that he SHOULD have been rested for this tour. WE ALL place too much pressure on the man and then are surprised if he's not up to form.

Final point, is that EVEN if we had depth to a sufficent level, its not worth a fuvk if THE BENCH ISN'T USED!!!!

subfreq

I do still think BOD at 12 and Earls at 13 for the WC is the direction Ireland should go.

BOD will draw defenders to him and he has the guile and pace to break the line. He's obviously better than Wallace or D'Arcy but by playing Earls outside him you get that raw pace and line speed a centre should have.

It will never happen of course but I think it does make sense.

Ciaran-Irl

Risteard wrote: »

Tbh, if we're listing Healy and Buckley as positives at scrum time it just shows what a low standard we've set for ourselves with regard to it. Not that it's all their fault but they do play a part.

Yes, well said. How sad it is that just because we get parity against a couple of teams not known for scrummaging, the plaudits rain down.

I'm not complaining, and it is an improvement, but surely we should aim higher, no?

The biggest learning I had was that Lions tours hurt you at the end of the following year. Bowe, BOD, Kearney, ROG, DOC, Heaslip and Wallace have been below their standard this tour, and the injury toll was mighty. TOL and Best shouldn't have rushed back so soon.

As someone said on the match thread, half this board had TOL & Kearney as world 15 options 12 months ago, so speaking as someone who was into rugby many years before I made a boards account, I learnt that forum users tend to be flighty creatures.

danthefan

How was the scrum a positive? Did everyone watch a different game to me today?

anonymous_joe

What have we learned?

• Hayes is past it.
• Horgan's loss of form hasn't changed.
• O'Gara's confidence is shot.
• We really do have the worst scrum in the world.
• We're tactically naive. Not to mention overly conservative.
• Buckley and Sexton are very good.
• We've very little mental strength as a team.
• Tomás O'Leary is one of the worst distributors of a rugby ball to have ever played scrum-half at this level.

Ciaran-Irl

anonymous_joe wrote: »

What have we learned?

• Hayes is past it.
• Horgan's loss of form hasn't changed.

Hayes played what, 40 minutes? Horgan was injured for the whole Maori game he played. You mitourwell be correct on both, but you didn't learn either from this tour.

outwest

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Hayes played what, 40 minutes? Horgan was injured for the whole Maori game he played. You mitourwell be correct on both, but you didn't learn either from this tour.

if he wasnt fit during the game he should of old the management, horgan isnt a international anymore. to old, same with hayes, other players are doing a much better job

bamboozle

Positives, Cronin, Touhy, Ruddock, Henry, Ronan all got international experience.

negatives, dont want to harp on but an aging squad at the end of a long season was selected for the tour and it showed. Some players looked very much off form like BOD, Kearney - i'm going to put this down to the exhertions of the lions tour last summer and now this tour, these guys need a break, if we are to have any chance with the WC we need to ensure our top players are given adequate rests over the summer months to allow them to mentally and physically refresh their minds and bodies.

scrum aside we're not a bad team, throw the likes of Luke Fitz, Earls, McFadden, Conway into contention for selection in the backs and POC, Sean O'Brien, Ferris, Flannery, Best into contention for selection in the pack and we could potentially have our strongest ever squad for the WC, my worry is that by then most of our frontline players will be shattered from the upcoming season and below peak mental and physical form.

finally, next season will be critical in the development of the likes of Sean O Brian, Ruddock, Conway, McFadden, Cronin, Buckley, they all need to get some experience at HC level and a sustained run in their respective teams.

anonymous_joe

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Hayes played what, 40 minutes? Horgan was injured for the whole Maori game he played. You mitourwell be correct on both, but you didn't learn either from this tour.

And that 40 minutes Hayes played was utterly abysmal against the Maori. Cost us the game too.

Kiwi_knock

Positives:

• Experience for the young players
• Ruddock getting capped
• Sexton getting his kicks
• Sexton-Wallace combo looked promising
• Trimble
• Buckley in the loose
• Defence in the Aussie game

Negatives:

• Set piece, not going to win a rugby match if you can not master the basics at the scrum and line out
• Lack of leadership on the pitch
• Our back row
• Lack of intensity at the break down
• Aimless kicks
• Not running the ball back
• Lack of an off loading game

All in all it was a good tour as it showed us how much is needed to improve the side for the WC. We really need a fully functioning scrum and lineout to give us a chance at challenging the top teams. We need to cut out our aimless kicks, the backs need more confidence to run the ball back. The intensity we bring to the break down needs to be upped. If we improve these things we have a great chance in the WC.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

And that 40 minutes Hayes played was utterly abysmal against the Maori. Cost us the game too.

How did Hayes cost us the game?

rockman15

i think concerns about paddy wallace's defense were put to rest over the tour. he was great when the wallabies had us on our own line.

Shelflife

We need to be clear here, while there are positives to be taken from the tour the glaringly obvious thing to be alarmed about is the scrum.

we saw england nearly beat aus in the first game by sheer power in the scrum, we then saw ire struggle against the same front row and lets be honest it was close to our first choice front row.

we will be pulverised in the 6 nations unless we get this sorted

razorblunt

rockman15 wrote: »

i think concerns about paddy wallace's defense were put to rest over the tour. he was great when the wallabies had us on our own line.

Yep, he wrapped man and ball up a good number of times too.

The main negative for me is the forced off load game, the players need a bit of cop on its better to take the tackle and recycle when the situation calls for it, and eliminate this "throw over the shoulder without looking" lark.
No real contenders for the back row, Henry too green, Ruddock too young possibly, Jennings and Ronan didn't do much of note.

Pros:
Sexton playing well all round
Trimble, Wallace putting their hands up
Would be interesting to see Cronin with the first choice lineout unit

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

How did Hayes cost us the game?

Exposed for pace by Maitland.

phog

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Exposed for pace by Maitland.

am I missing a smiley here

danthefan

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Exposed for pace by Maitland.

Ahh come off of it. Winger in beating prop shocker.

2040

Very happy with Dan Tuohy. He's been good with Ulster but he stands out far more with Ireland. That take and pass in the lineout towards the end of the Australia match was a thing of beauty.

anonymous_joe

phog wrote: »

am I missing a smiley here

danthefan wrote: »

Ahh come off of it. Winger in beating prop shocker.

I'm having a bad day and probably being overly harsh.

eroo

So many of you are being ridiculous throwing around phrases like ''past it'' or ''lost his pace''.

The seasoned players played badly because they have been playing for almost 2 seasons on the go without any big break. Munster are back into pre season tomorrow, with the tour players returning July; so that will mean the likes of O'Gara and O'Leary have had 4 weeks off in the last year essentially.BOD, Kearney etc are the same.

I'm surprised some of them are still standing after essentially 2 years on the go!

Jemo

A positive for me was the lack of tribalism shown by fans throughout this tour. Several players from Ulster and Connacht and abroad have made positive impacts, the doubts over Sexton in the red camp have been eradicated (especially with regards to his kicking) and Paddy Wallace has been accepted by the vast majority as being good enough. The tour was results wise a failure but going through an experience like that together can help unite teams, they will collectively set about improving and this can only bee good for Irish rugby and the peripheral players in particular.

Diom

razorblunt wrote: »

Yep, he wrapped man and ball up a good number of times too.

The main negative for me is the forced off load game, the players need a bit of cop on its better to take the tackle and recycle when the situation calls for it, and eliminate this "throw over the shoulder without looking" lark.
No real contenders for the back row, Henry too green, Ruddock too young possibly, Jennings and Ronan didn't do much of note.

Pros:
Sexton playing well all round
Trimble, Wallace putting their hands up
Would be interesting to see Cronin with the first choice lineout unit

Too many people think that a messy lineout is the hookers throwing alone. Cronin's throws were quite good. In the game against Australia he threw his 2nd throw to the tail a little high and that was it. Every other throw from him went where it was supposed to go, but was not secured.

outwest

the one thing we have learned is replaceing eddie with kidney didnt change much, the lack of sub used is worrying,

not dropping players in bad form, player keep getting picked and they hope their form gets better,

LeeroyJones

Gerry Thornley player review on Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0628/1224273465059.html

Rob Kearney

Played 2 Tests, + 1 rep v Maoris)

A tough gig, on the back foot for much of the time. He was prone to lapses, though performed better against the Wallabies. Physically, his ability beat an opponent in the collisions puts him above Murphy but this tour showed how he needs to develop link play in countering and when hitting the line.

Geordan Murphy

Played 3 (sub v NZ and Aust

Doesn’t have Kearney’s ballast in the collisions, and therefore was unluckiest to miss out on Test teams. Led side well v Maoris, countered and linked superbly at all times.

Tommy Bowe

Played 2 Tests. 1 try.

Kept on the periphery by the nature of both Tests, but maintained his standards. Was one of the few whose skills and physicality were up the All Blacks’ mark, and was under-used against the Wallabies. A class act.

Shane Horgan

Played 1 (v Maoris)

Hasn’t been right since injuring ankle in January and then pushed back v Clermont in March. On one leg since, and another who needs an overdue rest.

Brian O’Driscoll

Played 2 Tests. 1 try.

Stellar in defeat against the All Blacks, he became Ireland’s most capped player against the Aussies, albeit not with one of his most distinguished games. Looked weary, and may have lost a little of his pace but remains Ireland’s most important player and talisman for the next two seasons.

Gordon D’Arcy

Played 1. 1 try.

A tad harshly dropped against the Wallabies. Saw a groin specialist in Melbourne and looked careworn and in need of an operation and/or rest. Presumably will get one or both now.

Paddy Wallace

Played 2 (incl v Maoris). 1 try.

A pretty good tour. Forced his way into Test team against Wallabies on back of impressive outing against Maoris and is a skilful footballer who has something significant to offer.

Andrew Trimble

Played 2 Tests.

Has improved immeasurably in last couple of years, demonstrating his new-found footwork, offloading, passing and kicking skills in both Tests, though like Bowe, was under-used against Australia. One of the tour’s success stories.

Ronan O’Gara

Played 1. 6pts.

Two costly missed penalties to touch and yellow card against the All Blacks, whereupon he was an unused sub in last two games and must wait until November for that 100th cap.

Jonathan Sexton

Played 3 (sub v NZ). 25pts.

Did little wrong, though Wallabies were alert to the wraparound. With his physique and running game has added a real option going forward and he also put the place-kicking hiccups behind him with a return of 14 from 15, stats Matt Giteau would pay for.

Tomás O’Leary

Played 2 Tests.

Started both Tests but maintained curiously patchy form this season, which merely underlined how important he has become. Passing wobbled occasionally but defender-of-the-line heroics undimmed. Outstanding defence.

Eoin Reddan

Played 2 (rep v NZ, started v Maoris)

Came into tour on back of good form for Leinster but didn’t really put O’Leary under pressure, as he wasn’t quite at his sharpest to the breakdown against the Maoris.

Peter Stringer

(Played 1, rep v Maoris)

Still looks to have the quickest service of all but, curiously, travelled 12,000 miles for 17 minutes against the Maoris. No way to treat a legend.

Cian Healy

Played 2 Tests

A long drawn-out and energy-sapping rookie Test season for the young prop. Scrummaging was good, exposed in defence against the All Blacks but better against the Wallabies, this tour ought to have been an eye-opener.

Seán Cronin

Played 2 (started both Tests)

Thrown in at deep end in every sense against the ABs, with new lineout calls and a seven-man pack. Recovered manfully from his untypical fumble and came on a ton against Wallabies. Genuinely dynamic, has plenty more to offer.

John Fogarty

Played 2 (rep v NZ, start v Maoris)

One of the game’s nice guys and an excellent pro, he finally got that elusive first cap at 31 against the All Blacks, but then maybe let guard down and lost out to Damien Varley.

Damien Varley

Played 2 (rep v Maoris and Aust)

Came out as fourth choice, but had impressed Gert Smal when best of a beaten Munster pack v Leinster and grasped his chance sufficiently against Maoris to earn first cap v Australia. Couldn’t have done it without club game.

Jerry Flannery

Played 0

There in spirit if not quite in body. Probably pushed too hard too soon yet again v Baabaas but is still Ireland’s best hooker. Needs the rest badly.

Tony Buckley

Played 2 Tests

John Hayes’ illness gave Buckley an overdue opportunity against the All Blacks and he grasped it impressively. Wondrous hands for a big man, an excellent ball-carrier, on him much of Ireland’s future hopes may rest.

John Hayes

Played 1 (rep v Maoris)

Came into tour with a virus and lacking rugby, and it showed in his only tour appearance, the second half, against the Maoris. All things considered, that’s probably no harm.

Tom Court

Played 3 (rep v NZ and Aust, started v Maoris)

At fault for last of All Blacks’ nine tries, in fairness he redeemed himself against Australia when, though more effective at loosehead, steadied scrum at tighthead.

Donncha O’Callaghan

Played 2 Tests (and sub v Maoris).

Ever-willing and honest as the day is long. Rose to the challenge of being Ireland’s most/only experienced campaigner by straining every sinew.

Mick O’Driscoll

Played 2 Tests

Recurring back/hamstring problems may well have contributed to a poor effort against the All Blacks but redemption came by way of hard-working and largely effective display last Saturday.

Dan Tuohy

Played 3 (rep v NZ and Aust)

Stunning Test arrival with try in first minute as replacement with first touch v All Blacks, his inexperience showed against Maoris at lineout time and when exposed looking for big hits in loose. A late developer with still much to learn.

Ed O’Donoghue

Played 1 (v Maoris)

Only granted one outing against the Maoris, when, like Tuohy, inexperience was exposed at lineout time. Like others, has a better idea of what he has to do now and will start doing so at Leinster.

John Muldoon

Played 1 Test.

A true Connacht warrior, probably the best defensive backrower in Ireland, he earned his spot against the All Blacks only for it to be cruelly cut short by a broken arm which will sideline him for the start of next season.

David Wallace

Played 1 Test (and sub v Maoris)

Remarkable durability at 33 in year after a Lions tour, he carried hard against the All Blacks before going home early to be with wife Aileen at birth of their second child. Still Ireland’s best forward ball carrier but needs a rest.

Jamie Heaslip

Played 1 Test

Only man to have played every minute for Ireland this season, whereupon he rashly ended his tour and Ireland’s hopes v All Blacks. May have been provoked by a previous ruck, according to Irish touchline fans, but will surely learn his lesson.

Chris Henry

Played 2 (v NZ and Maoris)

Earned his Ireland debut on pack of impressive outing against the Maoris, which must have been poignant for him less than two months after his father Willie passed away. His mother Deniece was flown out by the IRFU.

Niall Ronan

Played 2 (incl. 1 v Maoris).

Outstanding as influential link man in game against the Maoris, offset slightly by a couple of unlucky penalties against him, and manfully made best of number six job against the Wallabies, though a couple of defensive blips. Has something to offer.

Shane Jennings

Played 2 (rep v NZ, started v Aust)

The ultimate pro made best of a bad job as sub in beaten 14-man cause against the All Blacks, but will be furious for uncharacteristically slipping off a couple of tackles, one costly, against Australia.

redroar1942

Wow he really doesn't rate Marcus Horan!

outwest

he forgot duffy.

Ciaran-Irl

Thornley wrote:

Jamie Heaslip

Played 1 Test

Only man to have played every minute for Ireland this season, whereupon he rashly ended his tour and Ireland’s hopes v All Blacks. May have been provoked by a previous ruck, according to Irish touchline fans, but will surely learn his lesson.

Anyone know any more details on that?

razorblunt

Diom wrote: »

Too many people think that a messy lineout is the hookers throwing alone. Cronin's throws were quite good. In the game against Australia he threw his 2nd throw to the tail a little high and that was it. Every other throw from him went where it was supposed to go, but was not secured.

I know, that was the point I was making, not that he was to blame.

Diom

razorblunt wrote: »

I know, that was the point I was making, not that he was to blame.

I know... was agreeing with you