Traffic Lights at M50 / M11 merge

trad

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council are planning to fit traffic lights at the M50 / M11 merge. They plan to erect the lights
"close to the nose (start) of the merging lane. These signals, when in operation, will control the traffic entering the M11 southbound carriageway when the traaffic on the southbound carriageway slows down suddenly or stops due to flow disruption. At normal motorway flows the traffic signals will switch off."

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/ and search PC/05/10

Have they lost the plot? Surely the solution is 3 lanes to Kilmacanogue.

Aard

Maybe this is to encourage people to use the Loughlinstown interchange.


Also, I didn't think it was within CoCo's remit to do anything to National/Motorway roads

AlekSmart

Yet again,this being Ireland,somebody in a position of high responsibility got it wrong.

Whilst all around us in "real" Europe,other cultures concieve,design and construct 4,6,8,10 lane motorways with fully operational grade seperation and the works we...,and it is WE, continue with the traditional methodology......."jesuzzz who`d a thought that many people would be drivin on an oul Motorway Boss ?"

However DLRCC,under the tutelage of Dublins Former Traffic Tsar....Owen Keegan,will doubtless find some means of making it a "Pay For Green" type of set-up where you purchase a tag to allow you enter the N11.

As for a solution as Trad asks....The solution is to do the fckukkink thing RIGHT to begin with,but that`s not within the design brief here I would imagine.

At this stage,the only realistic solution is to engage in a mass cull of Owen Keegan type Public Figures and their immediate replacement with German,Dutch,Belgian or Roma professionals who might just know what they`re talking about.

Next item on the NRA agenda will be switching off every second street-light on the M50 to save money........:(

Cookie_Monster

well they need to do something, that junction is a ****ing disaster southbound.

A better idea would be to properly deal with the NEXT exit, the first bray exit which causes the huge tailbacks

Tarabuses

Traffic lights on a motorway? Are these people serious?

jd

Interesting stuff here

http://www.wicklow.ie/apps/wicklowbeta/RoadsTransInfrast/M11/M11-N11%20TMM%20Part%208%20Report%20WCC_10-06-04%20FINAL%20FINAL%20_2_.pdf

Cookie_Monster

jd wrote: »

Interesting stuff here

http://www.wicklow.ie/apps/wicklowbeta/RoadsTransInfrast/M11/M11-N11%20TMM%20Part%208%20Report%20WCC_10-06-04%20FINAL%20FINAL%20_2_.pdf

page 22 of that explains the problem well.

EDIT: much of the document focus on the Killarney exit and roundabout (Hill Garage) and there are a number of interesting designs for this junction.

AlekSmart

A better idea would be to properly deal with the NEXT exit, the first bray exit which causes the huge tailbacks

Spot-On Cookie_monster,but this little exhibition of paddywhackery will probably soak up any funding which could be allocated to getting the NEXT junction sorted.

It should never have developed into this at all if proper professional ethics prevailed in Irish Public Administration,however some lad`s brother has a bit of an oul traffic signal pole company and he could do with a leg-up at the minute.....:)

godtabh

Tarabuses wrote: »

Traffic lights on a motorway? Are these people serious?

I think Belgium has them

Breezer

godtabh wrote: »

I think Belgium has them

Maybe it does, but it still defeats the entire purpose of a Motorway and seems pretty dangerous to me.

Surely that section of road would have to be reclassified for this to be legal?

jd

Traffic lights when merging on to freeways in LA too.

jd

The M11 from Shankill roundabout is an extended sliproad on to the mainline, I don't think it can be de-designated from motorway status as there is no exit for non motorway traffic after the roundabout.

I think any traffic lights will be similar to the lights northbound from the N1 approaching the tunnel, ie rarely operational but used if there is severe congestion/slowdown on the mainline

Alun

Perhaps you all ought to actually read the piece first. There's no intention of putting any lights on the M50/M11 merge, but on the next exit southbound (so-called Wilford interchange) after the merge, and on the Fassaroe exit too (next exit southbound). This kind of system is used in other countries (Netherlands for one) on busy stretches and it seems to work in my experience.

There are also plans to redesign the two roundabouts on the southernmost Bray exit (Killarney road) and replace them with traffic light controlled junctions that will be linked in to sensors on the slip roads and the mainline.

You need to look at the planning proposals on both the DLR and Wicklow Co. Co. websites in combination to see the whole proposal. The DLR one only really covers the Wilford interchange, whereas the Wicklow one covers the Fassaroe exit as well and also the improvements to the Killarney Rd. junction.

Here's a map covering the proposed changes ... http://www.dlrcoco.ie/planning/Part8/Wilford/Measures_Osi.pdf

Alun

jd wrote: »

The light will be on the merge of the N(M11) Southbound from Shankill on to the M11/M50 mainline.

Errm, no it won't. Next exit southbound from that.

Alun

AlekSmart wrote: »

Next item on the NRA agenda will be switching off every second street-light on the M50 to save money........:(

Like they did in Belgium you mean?

jd

Alun wrote: »

Errm, no it won't. Next exit southbound from that.

Sorry had an awful brain fart this morning , having read the proposals earlier

Cheers

Alun

jd wrote: »

Sorry had an awful brain fart this morning , having read the proposals earlier

Cheers

No problem This whole scheme has been covered in the N11/M11 upgrades thread already as well, if I recall correctly.

Regarding converting everything to 3 lanes as far as Kilmac, I personally don't see that as a runner. Whilst doing that on the existing M11 section might not be too much a of a job, things get decidedly narrow after it turns to N11 in the part under the new pedestrian bridge, and it would be a pretty tight squeeze to get 3 lanes in there I think.

AlekSmart

Like they did in Belgium you mean?

Well the Belgians merely copied us in that respect as we had the idea first,soon after the initial burst of the M50 was opened.

Also,the Belgian`s mind you,could be forgiven as they have the worlds only Fully illuminated Motorway Network !

You need to look at the planning proposals on both the DLR and Wicklow Co. Co. websites in combination to see the whole proposal. The DLR one only really covers the Wilford interchange, whereas the Wicklow one covers the Fassaroe exit as well and also the improvements to the Killarney Rd. junction.

The above quote just about sums it up....and one must not forget to include the NRA also.

What exactly were all these august bodies doing during the extensive planning and design phase of the original N11/M11 enhancements ?

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

What exactly were all these august bodies doing during the extensive planning and design phase of the original N11/M11 enhancements ?

true, I've encountered this problem since the junction was built (M50/M11 one)

I have to say I find it a serious and dangerous issues. Coming past cherrywood at 120 and I've had to very suddenly brake to zero coming around the corner at the M11 merge, where there is just not enough visibility to see the issue in advance enough to smoothly & slowly brake down

AlekSmart

I have to say I find it a serious and dangerous issues.

It now appears to be an accepted (by some) part and parcel of Major Irish infrastructural projects that we must return to the drawing board very soon after the project is completed.

Just as with the original West-Link bridge concept,where even after spending serious amounts of money on professional consultants to advise on the minuate of the delelopments,we then had to spend vast sums of public money to buy the original backers out.

(Hardly surprising therefore to realize that the late Liam Lawlor was also a "paid consultant" to NTR on their little scheme)

The likes of the M/N11 were and are MAJOR infrastructral projects which demand the highest levels of future-proofing and forward planning.

Yet almost by rote,as demonstrated by the likes of the Dublin Port Access Tunnel,we will witness major issues and costly delays during the entire construction process.

My own belief is that our basic Public Administration system is now far too tainted by illegality,amaturishness and downright incompetence,to be allocated any further major projects to make a total-hames of.

Cookie_Monster

have to say also that when coming off at Killarney exit to go down along the southern cross its quicker to use the left turn only lane from that exit and turn right immediatly into the garage entry and come back to the roundabout and round to the southern cross.

Generally skips you a dozen or more cars at rush hour

Alun

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

true, I've encountered this problem since the junction was built (M50/M11 one)

I have to say I find it a serious and dangerous issues. Coming past cherrywood at 120 and I've had to very suddenly brake to zero coming around the corner at the M11 merge, where there is just not enough visibility to see the issue in advance enough to smoothly & slowly brake down

.. mainly due to people coming along the M11 and deciding they absolutely have to merge as soon as is humanly possible rather than use merge lane and/or the (at least 1km long) auxiliary lane for the first exit instead. I've even seen people actually stopping in the merge lane with their indicator on rather than carry on along it and merge normally.

Cookie_Monster

Alun wrote: »

.. mainly due to people coming along the M11 and deciding they absolutely have to merge as soon as is humanly possible rather than use merge lane and/or the (at least 1km long) auxiliary lane for the first exit instead. I've even seen people actually stopping in the merge lane with their indicator on rather than carry on along it and merge normally.

you can't win there though cos people won't let you in further down as you give the impression that you're just trying to skip traffic all the way down to the exit.

Alun

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you can't win there though cos people won't let you in further down as you give the impression that you're just trying to skip traffic all the way down to the exit.

It's not usually a problem unless you seriously take the piss and try and barge in just a few metres before the auxiliary lane actually turns off, or as you see sometimes, continue driving past the turn off point onto the hard shoulder and then try and barge your way in! I'm talking about merging a few hundred metres or so after the M50/M11 merge point .. nobody should have a problem with that.

trad

Sorry about the bum steer in the thread title, it was early in the morning and I read the leaflet from the council too quickly. Still traffic lights are not the answer, especially if you are trying to join the M11 from Bray.

Pablo Sanchez

I know its slightly down the road from the Killarney road exit but i think the turn coming into Kilmacanogue is lethal.

Ive lost count of the times drivers in the overtaking lane suddenly slam on their breaks, almost causing an acident. Could this be due to the reputation that Kilmac has a speed check 'hot spot'?

Personally ive only seen speed cameras on that section of road twice in the last few years, and these have been both in the north bound lane.

godtabh

jd wrote: »

Traffic lights when merging on to freeways in LA too.

I think that is a form of ramp metering. Only allowing flow onto the motor to prevent excessive tail backs.