Sudden speed limit drops 100km/h -> 50km/h

kdouglas

So I was heading onto the new M50 North -> M1 North slip yesterday, first time on it since it was upgraded, and the speed limit on the slip road was 50km/h, I didn't see any speed limit previous to this other than the one on the M50 for 100km/h? From what I remember, this junction used to be 80km/h?

This seems like a very sudden/sharp drop to me, and could potentially be dangerous, let alone cause traffic congestion?

I also noticed something similar on the N7 a few weeks back, on the N7 in the direction of Dublin, getting off at Naas North, the speed limit here also goes from 100km/h straight to 50km/h, now I understand this exit has a much sharper turn than that of the M50/M1, but still this is quite a sudden drop.

Anyone else noticed this or think these limits are incorrectly set?

Cookie_Monster

they're all over the place. hundreds of villages where national roads go from 100 to 50, sometimes a 60 in between though not always. I don't think its an issue really. I don't think its really expected to be at 50 right at the sign (even though it is the law) and you can see them well in advance too, giving you time to slow well before the sign.

hobochris

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they're all over the place. hundreds of villages where national roads go from 100 to 50, sometimes a 60 in between though not always. I don't think its an issue really. I don't think its really expected to be at 50 right at the sign (even though it is the law) and you can see them well in advance too, giving you time to slow well before the sign.

Yup, and in fairness if you need to rely on speed signs to dictate your speed your not a very good driver.

Mitch Connor

hobochris wrote: »

Yup, and in fairness if you need to rely on speed signs to dictate your speed your not a very good driver.

what? utter rubbish.

Cookie_Monster

I need to rely on signs, I'd be doing 140 everywhere otherwise :D:D

kdouglas

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they're all over the place. hundreds of villages where national roads go from 100 to 50, sometimes a 60 in between though not always. I don't think its an issue really. I don't think its really expected to be at 50 right at the sign (even though it is the law) and you can see them well in advance too, giving you time to slow well before the sign.

Ah yes, but for someone like me who has no choice but to adhere to the speed limit, I slow down to the advertised speed limit and the driver's behind me get very irate, very quickly. A family member of mine has been fined and received penalty points for the exact scenario you describe, didn't slow down before the 50km/h sign and was stop by a garda just metres after it.

I see it every day on the N4 inbound, I take N4->M50 southbound, with a 80km/h->60km/h drop about 200 metres before the lanes widen out for the M50 south, and even here I regularly get drivers driving very close behind me, driving aggressively and throwing gestures, because I've decided to adhere to the advertised limit. (I always keep to the left, so in this case, once the extra lane comes in, they can pass me freely, but it's amazing how much agro it causes for those 200 metres)


Regardless of the fact that it "exists in many small towns", if you are unfamiliar with a road, by the time you are close enough to read the sign, you have to brake fairly hard to go from 100km/h to 50km/h before the sign. I've commonly seen it done as 100->80->60->50, which is much safer and gives you ample time to brake smoothly.

Also, why in the world is the M50->M1 slip road all the way down at 50km/h anyway?

Cookie_Monster

kdouglas wrote: »

Also, why in the world is the M50->M1 slip road all the way down at 50km/h anyway?

thats a whole other question there. Its a stupid limit.

and even here I regularly get drivers driving very close behind me, driving aggressively and throwing gestures, because I've decided to adhere to the advertised limit.

just let off the gas and continue to slow, they get the message eventually
even if it does take until your doing 25...

Stark

kdouglas wrote: »

Ah yes, but for someone like me who has no choice but to adhere to the speed limit, I slow down to the advertised speed limit and the driver's behind me get very irate, very quickly. A family member of mine has been fined and received penalty points for the exact scenario you describe, didn't slow down before the 50km/h sign and was stop by a garda just metres after it.
...
Regardless of the fact that it "exists in many small towns", if you are unfamiliar with a road, by the time you are close enough to read the sign, you have to brake fairly hard to go from 100km/h to 50km/h before the sign. I've commonly seen it done as 100->80->60->50, which is much safer and gives you ample time to brake smoothly.

Most of those signs are there from when roadworks took place and the whoever was responsible for removing the signs couldn't be arsed removing them afterwards. They're all over the place (I know of two on the N81 that are from expired roadworks orders) and quite frankly, it's dangerous to jam on the brakes when you come across them. Was your family member caught recently? I'd strongly recommend that they look up why the speed limit was there and if it is an expired roadworks order, then they should appeal. The Gardaí have been known to catch people out even when the speed limit isn't backed up by law. I've seen examples on this forum of people being done for speeding when they weren't actually speeding. At least with 50km/hr limits due to built-up areas, you're given some warning that you're coming to a town.

SeanW

kdouglas wrote: »

Ah yes, but for someone like me who has no choice but to adhere to the speed limit, ...

Mind if I ask how this situation came about? Do you have 10 PPs or is there a tacograph in your vehicle?

kdouglas

Stark wrote: »

Most of those signs are there from when roadworks took place and the whoever was responsible for removing the signs couldn't be arsed removing them afterwards.

Unfortunately, both the examples I gave above are very much permanent signage.

SeanW wrote: »

Mind if I ask how this situation came about? Do you have 10 PPs or is there a tacograph in your vehicle?

Not 10! but I have a couple and certainly don't want any more.

Ham'nd'egger

Stark wrote: »

I'd strongly recommend that they look up why the speed limit was there and if it is an expired roadworks order, then they should appeal. The Gardaí have been known to catch people out even when the speed limit isn't backed up by law. I've seen examples on this forum of people being done for speeding when they weren't actually speeding. At least with 50km/hr limits due to built-up areas, you're given some warning that you're coming to a town.

Point of Law here; if you have been issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice and opt to take the fine/points there is no option of appeal as there has been no court case to appeal in the first instance.

Not

kdouglas wrote: »

I see it every day on the N4 inbound, I take N4->M50 southbound, with a 80km/h->60km/h drop about 200 metres before the lanes widen out for the M50 south, and even here I regularly get drivers driving very close behind me, driving aggressively and throwing gestures, because I've decided to adhere to the advertised limit. (I always keep to the left, so in this case, once the extra lane comes in, they can pass me freely, but it's amazing how much agro it causes for those 200 metres)

I dont know who decided to put that sign there, but I think it's down right dangerous forcing traffic moving across into the right lane (in practise the fast lane) in order to take the M50 to slow at that point when traffic going straight ahead is whizzing up behind or passing on the left. I know the 60 applies to all lanes there, but practically no one pays a blind bit of attention to it, so for my own safety I dont slow to 60 until the lane widens to two lanes and I'm at the point where the concrete median starts on the left. IMO, the sign should be past where the M50 south splits off, or if not then a good quarter mile before where it is now so that the limit is well established before the split off to the right.

snappieT

kdouglas wrote: »

So I was heading onto the new M50 North -> M1 North slip yesterday, first time on it since it was upgraded, and the speed limit on the slip road was 50km/h, I didn't see any speed limit previous to this other than the one on the M50 for 100km/h? From what I remember, this junction used to be 80km/h?

This seems like a very sudden/sharp drop to me, and could potentially be dangerous, let alone cause traffic congestion?

If I remember, a truck went on its side about 6 weeks back, and they then reduced the speed limit there.

MrDerp

kdouglas wrote: »

So I was heading onto the new M50 North -> M1 North slip yesterday, first time on it since it was upgraded, and the speed limit on the slip road was 50km/h, I didn't see any speed limit previous to this other than the one on the M50 for 100km/h? From what I remember, this junction used to be 80km/h?

This seems like a very sudden/sharp drop to me, and could potentially be dangerous, let alone cause traffic congestion?

I also noticed something similar on the N7 a few weeks back, on the N7 in the direction of Dublin, getting off at Naas North, the speed limit here also goes from 100km/h straight to 50km/h, now I understand this exit has a much sharper turn than that of the M50/M1, but still this is quite a sudden drop.

Anyone else noticed this or think these limits are incorrectly set?

It does actually drop to 80km/h first, before going to 50km/h. Not long after the overbridge carrying the old N1.

The problem for you is that the road is 4/5 lanes at this point, so the sign's to your left and right are obviously invisible from the middle.

I go straight through to the N32 and I have to admit I miss the 80kph sign half of the time. It's just not visible enough on a road that wide. It badly needs overhead signs, and preferably electronic as one will pay more notice when on a motorway.

kdouglas

MrDerp wrote: »

It does actually drop to 80km/h first, before going to 50km/h. Not long after the overbridge carrying the old N1.

The problem for you is that the road is 4/5 lanes at this point, so the sign's to your left and right are obviously invisible from the middle.

I go straight through to the N32 and I have to admit I miss the 80kph sign half of the time. It's just not visible enough on a road that wide. It badly needs overhead signs, and preferably electronic as one will pay more notice when on a motorway.

Well I definitely wasn't in the middle lane and I didn't see the 80k sign, will have to look next time i'm over that way.

Zoney

On the subject of 50 km/h on a motorway, there is the situation on the M20 in Limerick at the moment (probably permanent due to the cramped freeflow at M7/N18 J1) that if you join the northbound carriageway from J2 (Dooradoyle) there are M20 signs as normal at the top of the on-slip but with the adjoining speed limit signs for 50 km/h (it's just an ordinary slip that usually would have 120 km/h for joining a motorway)! The roundabout at the overbridge you are leaving is a 60 km/h zone, as is the R926 link road through the houses into Dooradoyle!

It seems rather odd having a slip for acceleration onto the motorway when you are actually entering a lower speed limit zone

Victor

kdouglas wrote: »

Also, why in the world is the M50->M1 slip road all the way down at 50km/h anyway?

Because the slip road is inside the city and a semi-literate ignored the instruction I gave him to fix the situation.

Victor

Victor wrote: »

Because the slip road is inside the city and a semi-literate ignored the instruction I gave him to fix the situation.

See attached. The M50 northbound to Airport slip needs to be corrected.

On the N32 map, Fingal is in dark green / light grey, DCC in light green and blue.

I haven't been able to obtain the Fingal speed limit bye-laws.

Steviemak

Victor wrote: »

See attached. The M50 northbound to Airport slip needs to be corrected.

On the N32 map, Fingal is in dark green / light grey, DCC in light green and blue.

I haven't been able to obtain the Fingal speed limit bye-laws.

Does this mean only part of the M1-M50 slip is 50km i.e. the section inside the city limits?

Victor

Steviemak wrote: »

Does this mean only part of the M1-M50 slip is 50km i.e. the section inside the city limits?

I don't know about the Fingal area, as I said "I haven't been able to obtain the Fingal speed limit bye-laws."

celticbest

snappieT wrote: »

If I remember, a truck went on its side about 6 weeks back, and they then reduced the speed limit there.

The reason that truck went over on it side was because the Driver had a heart attack and died while on the bend of the freeflow, it was not down to speed....

Carawaystick

Victor wrote: »

See attached. The M50 northbound to Airport slip needs to be corrected.

On the N32 map, Fingal is in dark green / light grey, DCC in light green and blue.

The image M1-M32-M50 lane layouts.png is incorrect, it's not motorway on the N1 to/from the coolock lane interchange from Whitehall.

And the N1 is still a national route south of Shantalla bridge

Victor

Carawaystick wrote: »

The image M1-M32-M50 lane layouts.png is incorrect, it's not motorway on the N1 to/from the coolock lane interchange from Whitehall.

And the N1 is still a national route south of Shantalla bridge

I was thinking that, hence I marked in N/M1. To be honest its the least of the worries in the bye-laws. The trick is to call it the Santry Bypass.

M32 is also coloured incorrectly.

sdanseo

There IMO needs to be some kerbing/crash barrier to further separate the M50N->M1N and M50N-M1S slips, a ton of drivers still change lanes way too late. This would help people slow down also, if people see a bend and no obstacle it's harder to get them to slow down than if they see a narrow lane with a barrier on either side. Safer that way. Same problem occurs at the split between M1S->N32 and M1S->M50S slips.

People need to stop tailgating on the first bend too, I rarely slow right down to 50km/h because any time I do there's a dick in an Audi trying to touch my rear bumper.

Capt'n Midnight

even if there is no sign , it's 50Kmph in a built up area , ( unless there is a sign saying otherwise )