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The End Of Faith
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23-06-2010 10:37pm#1
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Yeah it's a good book, it's kind of like an informed rant
Here is my favourits Sam Harris video online, it's got Michael Shermer and even theoretical physicist Leonard Mlodinow pwning Deekap Chopra and his woowoo, among other things :cool:0 -
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Instead of sitting down and reading God is Not Great I think you would learn more, and get more enjoyment, out of watching the many online lectures and debate's Hitchens has on youtube, google, c-span etc... I read the book well after seeing all these debates and the book was mainly just a re-hash of the things he said in lectures, (or vice versa, take it whatever way you like
).
I do really recommend the Portable Atheist to hear straight from those who have influenced modern culture like Lucretius, Shelley, Einstein, Freud etc...
I'd also recommend going on to read some of their own works: Einstein - What I believe; Shelley - The Necessity of Atheism; Freud - Civilization and it's Discontents
(after you read The Future of an Illusion from the Portable Atheist) etc...
Personally I don't recommend Dan Dennett at all, I'd much prefer Dawkins or Harris over Dennett, and I definitely don't recommend that plagiarist Dershowitz
Oh, there's a fairly new book out by Michael Parenti called God and His Demons in which Parenti sets out to use their own printed words to show how full of sh*t contradictions they are.
If you've ever read anything by this guy you'll know your in for something good.0 -
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donegalfella wrote: »This post has been deleted.
spot on, cheers!
will start with "end of faith" and re-read the God delusion.
I will have to intersperse it with some spiritual literature of course, just so I don't get dragged over to the dark side 0 -
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Third time posting this, but I don't care
More Sam Harris: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/morality10/morality10_index.html0 -
Third time posting this, but I don't care
More Sam Harris: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/morality10/morality10_index.html
Man!!! Thank you!!!
The guy, Paul Bloom, does the psychology lectures on the yale website.0 -
Third time posting this, but I don't care
More Sam Harris: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/morality10/morality10_index.html
Interesting project they are talking about undertaking. Could it ever be completed in our lifetime? This is an area where science and spirituality will definitely overlap, and the project could benefit in no small part by engaging with Buddhism (which is an atheistic religion), as there is over 2500yrs of insight into this particular area.0 -
checkyabadself wrote: »I read End of Faith when it first came out, then Dawkins - the god delusion, followed by Hitchens- God is not great.
I agree with Zillah and think Harris is more polished than Hitchens. Harris is well mannered in his delivery and this is important, as too often arrogance will make the reader/listener switch off, as atheism has to refrain from claiming 100% certainty on the issue of god at the end of the day.
Dawkins is too nice and as said already, gives too much credibility to theologians that his arguments are clearly wasted upon.
I found Hitchens to be a delight to read. His witticisms are at times, really funny and his use of the english language is wonderful.
Theres a lot to be said from reaing the three of them, they each bring a great slant on the issue, and the whole seems to be better than any one part.
I have to agree with what was said already about checking out some of the debates.
I find that there are loads of great podcasts and lectures/debates on itunesU.
Heres some stuff that cant be missed........
The four horsemen...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKhc1pcDFM
Dawkins God delusion doc......
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-root-of-all-evil/4od#2919518
This is my favourite Hitchens debates, against his brother.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4eT0fFcqEs
of those, only the 4 horsemen link works
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Not at all. Science is a red-herring. Ok, it might help dispel some of the absurdities that creep into religion without people realizing it, such as the 6x24hour creation theory, of which the bible says precisely nothing, but fundamentally it adds nothing to the argument, and takes away nothing. It is an irrelevance, and having a science degree myself, I know that it is true.
For most of the last three hundred years, people have been trying to denounce every aspect of historical validity to the bible, but time and time again, the bible has ended up being verified as true. Even evolution does not really change anything.
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
link
But of course Yom, the Hebrew word for Day is flexible & isn't as bogged
down to the 24 hour interpretation as we'd make it out to be ergo
the above bible passage still holds right
You were smart enough
to include the 24-hour bit as that gives you flexibility in your
interpretation.
Funny how science has still contradicted nearly every single one of these
mandates, well 1.20 is debatable :pac:
IF you want to get into specifics of these 31 we'll show you where the
bible is wrong & why. Hey, I guess just the very beginning of the book can
be wrong though, right?
Ahh, screw it.
1.1: The earth only appeared 4.6 Billion years ago, the "heavens" were
created 13.7-ish Billion years ago.
1.2: The earth was most certainly not without form, it was formed out
of the debris of a previous star that has exploded & this has also
formed all of the planets in the solar system.
1.3 : Light appeared long, long before the earth, in fact electromagnetic
radiation was present at the very beginning.
1.4: Light isn't divided from the darkness, it illuminates the darkness.
1.5: I can't verify if god really called them night and day but night and day
on the earth didn't appear in a stable fashion until @ least 4 billion years
ago after the earth had accumulated most of the debris in it's elliptic
circle around the earth.
1.6: I can't verify if god said it but this one seems more or less accurate
but based off the first 5 points it's meant to refer to the earth
that was created in the beginning even though the earth wasn't so
I think I & others could keep going 0 -
So?sponsoredwalk wrote: »1.1: The earth only appeared 4.6 Billion years ago, the "heavens" were
created 13.7-ish Billion years ago.
But immediately you jump to assumptions about what the writer intended. You're only debunking your preconceived interpretation about what "without form" means.1.2: The earth was most certainly not without form, it was formed out
of the debris of a previous star that has exploded & this has also
formed all of the planets in the solar system.
But the light the bible speaks of is surely a supernatural light, because the days and the nights spoken of initially are not earth days, but God-days. For in the beginning, there was no sun or moon to govern the day. One day is defined to be a period of God's creating or work. Day is a period of work. Light is present where God is. Light represents energy. Energy is necessary for creation. The God-days became mapped into earth days after the Sun and Moon became fixed, and God's light became mapped into sunlight.1.3 : Light appeared long, long before the earth, in fact electromagnetic
radiation was present at the very beginning.
1.4: Light isn't divided from the darkness, it illuminates the darkness.
1.5: I can't verify if god really called them night and day but night and day
on the earth didn't appear in a stable fashion until @ least 4 billion years
ago after the earth had accumulated most of the debris in it's elliptic
circle around the earth.
You need to get rid of your preconceptions, and start thinking "outside the box."1.6: I can't verify if god said it but this one seems more or less accurate
but based off the first 5 points it's meant to refer to the earth
that was created in the beginning even though the earth wasn't so
I think I & others could keep going0 -
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