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Can a caution be appealed?

  • 23-06-2010 3:25pm
    #1
    Smudge357
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 ✭


    After someone has been issued with a caution for a public order offence, can a formal reason/statement/explaination be obtained from the arresting officer?

    What other documents does the person have the right to? Can a signed caution be appealed?


Comments

  • #2
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    To get the caution you would had to have admitted committing the offence.

    Otherwise you would have been prosecuted.

    Did you commit the offence?

    Re: Any documents, If i was you id contact the Superintendent or Inspector who cautioned you.

    Normally you are only entitled to see Garda documents when a court directs a Gary Doyle order.


  • #3
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    Smudge357 wrote: »
    After someone has been issued with a caution for a public order offence, can a formal reason/statement/explaination be obtained from the arresting officer?

    What other documents does the person have the right to? Can a signed caution be appealed?

    If someone has received a caution, either an adult caution or under the juvenile diversion program, it means they have first admitted to having committed the offence. The reasons for the arrest are written on the form that any adult culprit signs.

    The alternative to a caution is to not admit the offence and fight it in court, but you cannot admit an offence for the purposes of receiving a caution then retract it.


  • #4
    Reloc8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Reloc8


    Smudge357 wrote: »
    After someone has been issued with a caution for a public order offence, can a formal reason/statement/explaination be obtained from the arresting officer?

    What other documents does the person have the right to? Can a signed caution be appealed?
    None and No


  • #5
    Smudge357
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 ✭Smudge357


    Nice, so basically, the gardai can arrest you for something that isnt a crime (not giving your name), tell you you can sign it or stay here and get a beating, and you have no rights if this happens.

    I love this free democracy.

    In before the arguements, not giving your name only becomes an offence if you have been seen commiting a crime or can be reasonably suspected of commiting a crime.

    Neither took place so the gardai had no right to demand it.


  • #6
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Smudge357 wrote: »
    Nice, so basically, the gardai can arrest you for something that isnt a crime (not giving your name), tell you you can sign it or stay here and get a beating, and you have no rights if this happens.

    I love this free democracy.

    In before the arguements, not giving your name only becomes an offence if you have been seen commiting a crime or can be reasonably suspected of commiting a crime.

    Neither took place so the gardai had no right to demand it.

    You could bring judicial review proceedings seeking to have the caution quashed if it was obtained with threats of physical violence. If that is what happened you could also sue for damages.

    You could speak to a solicitor about the above, but Judicial Reivew takes place in the High Court so if you lose you will have to pay the State's and your own costs, which are not cheap.


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  • #7
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    Smudge357 wrote: »
    Nice, so basically, the gardai can arrest you for something that isnt a crime (not giving your name), tell you you can sign it or stay here and get a beating, and you have no rights if this happens.

    I love this free democracy.

    In before the arguements, not giving your name only becomes an offence if you have been seen commiting a crime or can be reasonably suspected of commiting a crime.

    Neither took place so the gardai had no right to demand it.

    That sounds like a load of horse****e, but go make a complaint to the ombudsman if that's what happened.


  • #8
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    If you dont turn up for your caution you get a summons to court. So you signed to consent to be cautioned and showed up voluntarily to receive your caution is that correct?


  • #9
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Smudge357 wrote: »
    Nice, so basically, the gardai can arrest you for something that isnt a crime (not giving your name), tell you you can sign it or stay here and get a beating, and you have no rights if this happens.

    I love this free democracy.

    In before the arguements, not giving your name only becomes an offence if you have been seen commiting a crime or can be reasonably suspected of commiting a crime.

    Neither took place so the gardai had no right to demand it.

    No they just have to be of the opinion that you committed an offence. They dont have to see you do it.


  • #10
    Brendog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭Brendog


    A Garda Caution is basically a strike 1 kinda thing. It doesn't show up when an employer checks if you have any convictions. Its just there so that If you are ever arrested again for an offence that the arresting officer will know you've been in trouble before and that it wasn't a once off thing.

    It can be appealed. You need to contact the superintendent of the station who deals with the area you live. He in turn will have to bring the appeal to his superior officer. I'm not completely sure but this may only apply to minors.


  • #11
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Your under no obligation to accept a caution and certainly under no obligation to sign one.


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  • #12
    Smudge357
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 ✭Smudge357


    Haddockman wrote: »
    Your under no obligation to accept a caution and certainly under no obligation to sign one.
    Very well and good, and I know this, but that works aslong as the gardai in the station are working for your and everyone's freedoms.

    When they are assuring you that they 'make the rules around here', direct quote, and you got in the station because of your opinion that they were too violent, it becomes a matter of personal safety to sign your caution.

    I was under no obligation to give my name, but was arrested anyway.


  • #13
    Smudge357
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 ✭Smudge357


    k_mac wrote: »
    No they just have to be of the opinion that you committed an offence. They dont have to see you do it.
    aka 'reasonably suspected of'


  • #14
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Smudge357 wrote: »
    Nice, so basically, the gardai can arrest you for something that isnt a crime (not giving your name), tell you you can sign it or stay here and get a beating, and you have no rights if this happens.

    I love this free democracy.

    In before the arguements, not giving your name only becomes an offence if you have been seen commiting a crime or can be reasonably suspected of commiting a crime.

    Neither took place so the gardai had no right to demand it.


    I can see how you got yourself into bother, time to grow up, next time you'll have a conviction!!


  • #15
    Smudge357
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 ✭Smudge357


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    I can see how you got yourself into bother, time to grow up, next time you'll have a conviction!!
    I'll always do what I did in that situation, and be proud that Im not one of the people who stood there appauled but too afraid to say anything when they see a child being mistreated.

    What ever happened to a threat to freedom anywhere is a threat to freedom everywhere? People's rights? The price of freedom is eternal vigilance?

    Oh wait, George Bush's cousin is black and he has the job of running the wars so I guess we're living in Martin Luther King's dream?

    This country is going down the drain, and it's the people's fault.


  • #16
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Smudge357 wrote: »
    Very well and good, and I know this, but that works aslong as the gardai in the station are working for your and everyone's freedoms.

    When they are assuring you that they 'make the rules around here', direct quote, and you got in the station because of your opinion that they were too violent, it becomes a matter of personal safety to sign your caution.

    I was under no obligation to give my name, but was arrested anyway.

    For future reference in a case like that you do not interfere with them doing their job. You report it to the Ombudsman and let them investigate. You have no idea what the situation might have been.


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