Taxing your Irish home

dgrump1

The Coalition government are sending out feelers to see what reaction there will be to bringing back rates or some form of taxation of your living accommodation. They are wondering are we going to stand by and bow our heads again like what we did when they increased the taxes and put levies on our miserly wages to pay for their incompetence in handling the so called Celtic Tiger years that now have most of us broke and in debt. The public service demonstrations helped them get what they want...No wage decreases before 2014...The money should be coming from these wasters who are unable to answer phones or get up off their very large wadded bums to come to the counters of any of our public service buildings. These country wasters (most are from outside of the pale) know that if you stand your ground, even if you are wrong, you will probably win in this country that is run on consensus by this government. Public service employees should have their wages dropped from now until we are out of this mess. They are paid out of taxes No mon..No fun.... Sack as many as is possible and we will save a fortune..........Signed: Worker breaking his back to pay these freaks' wages....

kylith

Can we get a little less bile and rambling and a little more linking to information, please?

RobbieTheRobber

Do you need a passport OP?

Smcgie

Er.. I think rates would be an excellent idea.

SeaFields

I didnt know all public service workers are cluchies?

Demonon

Here we go

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/households-facing-new-property-tax-in-budget-2230836.html

Demonon

It's necessary to sustain the overpaid public sector wages/pensions.

Dravokivich

Demonon wrote: »

It's necessary to sustain the overpaid public sector wages/pensions.

er... then why put a Tax on something that the funds raised from that tax doesn't go to?

Demonon

Dravokivich wrote: »

er... then why put a Tax on something that the funds raised from that tax doesn't go to?

It all goes into the same pot at the end of the day.

Dravokivich

Demonon wrote: »

It all goes into the same pot at the end of the day.

PRSI and "levies" go to their own pot...

conorhal

My opinion on this is simple, don't come knocking on my door looking for a handout until you get your own house in order. We are borrowing 50 million a day to sustain the unsustainable.
It's a myth that we are anything like a low tax economy, we're a moderate direct taxation economy with massive indirect taxes and charges, and I for one resent the number of times I have to pay tax on the money I earn. I'm being told to live within my means by a government that want to live large on my means. Once a government starts taking more than half of what you earn it can expect people to start avoiding tax by any means necessary.

As a PAYE worker , I get taxed when I earn it, say an average of 30 cent on the euro, leaving me with 70 cent. Then I get taxed when I spend it, an average of 21%, leaving me with 55.3 cent. And now having spent it on a house they want another taste and effectively leave you renting your own property from the state (because they can't be bothered to wait untill you die to rob your grave with death taxes). They can FF OFF!

I know several people that say (and not just in the typically Irish sense of hollow outrage) that they will go to jail before paying a property tax.

Think about it. You have a government and a bank, one inflates the property market for the revenue creating an unsustainable pyramid scheme, the other loans the money to their builder mates in the hopes of handsome profits and then sells you a mortgage on this inflated property that it's not sure that you can afford.
The banks go bust along with the developers and the government decides to bail them out, so it taxes the house that they forced up the cost of and buried you in debt for so that the can bail out the very people responsible?

There will be a fockin' revolution of they try this....

Wibbs

what conorhal wrote.

PeterIanStaker

I'm never going to be able to afford property. Even if I did, I wouldnt buy into their black hole.

and as for the poster saying there will be a fockin' revolution, no there wont, people will just bend over and take it like the passive herd they are.

wes

For goodness sake, we are already paying throught the noses, as it is. There already taking the pi$$ as it is, so I am not even sure what you would call this crap.

Richard tea

Oh the bold people in the PS make me sad:( Boo hoo hoo

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Another public sector bashing thread, great... you even added a "people from the country" bashing part too. Brilliant...

Op have a few second homes? Not happy? Boohoo... Cry me a river.

Sanjuro

Maison Uneven Marinade wrote: »

Op have a few second homes?

*Facepalm*

gaz wac

conorhal wrote: »

There will be a fockin' revolution of they try this....

never going to happen ! people always just sit back and take it.

If we wanted to get FF out, we prob could, if every person in every town
, village, city all over Ireland came out screaming, but does it ever happen ? no....." cant go saturday, football training"........ "when? saturday morning? na, ill be dying with a hangover, ill pay this tax but no more..stupid FF " !!

:rolleyes:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Sanjuro wrote: »

*Facepalm*

Grammar nazi? Who fcuking cares, really...

Mike 1972

dgrump1 wrote: »

Taxing your Irish home

Just how many countries do you have a "home" in ?

Sofa King Great

News just in... Public Service workers pay these taxes too.

easyeason3

Heard it on the radio, a tax of anything from €250 - €3000.
What determines how much you pay if they bring this tax in?

PeterIanStaker

easyeason3 wrote: »

What determines how much you pay if they bring this tax in?

If you're a member of FF you don't have to pay tax

arybvtcw0eolkf

dgrump1 wrote: »

The Coalition government are sending out feelers to see what reaction there will be to bringing back rates or some form of taxation of your living accommodation. They are wondering are we going to stand by and bow our heads again like what we did when they increased the taxes and put levies on our miserly wages to pay for their incompetence in handling the so called Celtic Tiger years that now have most of us broke and in debt. The public service demonstrations helped them get what they want...No wage decreases before 2014...The money should be coming from these wasters who are unable to answer phones or get up off their very large wadded bums to come to the counters of any of our public service buildings. These country wasters (most are from outside of the pale) know that if you stand your ground, even if you are wrong, you will probably win in this country that is run on consensus by this government. Public service employees should have their wages dropped from now until we are out of this mess. They are paid out of taxes No mon..No fun.... Sack as many as is possible and we will save a fortune..........Signed: Worker breaking his back to pay these freaks' wages....

i57dwun4yb1pt8

yes ,they will do it

and we will sit here and pay up like the nation of pussies we are.

Din Taylor

Tax should only be paid on money that you have i.e what you earn and what you spend. Taxing on property value is in no way fair. What about people i the counties around Dublin where their houses are worth 10 -20 times what they paid for it many years ago. Could they really afford it? Before someone says these people will likely be retired council tax in the UK is still payable by pensioners (students also have to pay if they are living with any non-students).

Also I hear that they may get local authorities to collect it. This can cause inconsistencies. I know of one UK council that sends threatening "baillifs will be knocking on your door" letters to people a month after they graduate where other councils are a lot more easy going.

Sofa King Great

How do you value a home?
A house is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it but if you can justify the fact that it is your home and is only of sentimental value as you have no intention of selling it surely it can only be charged at cost?

oztots

Something tells me this will be a while being implemented. Not to mind the fact that every house has a different value and that calling an average value would cause ructions, who is going to be doing these valuations?

questionmark?

oztots wrote: »

who is going to be doing these valuations?

Our fantastic economists in the Department of Finance of course all so skilled but yet underpaid. Like do you really think they could get it wrong with anything in relation to the housing market???

bryaner

dgrump1 wrote: »

The Coalition government are sending out feelers to see what reaction there will be to bringing back rates or some form of taxation of your living accommodation. They are wondering are we going to stand by and bow our heads again like what we did when they increased the taxes and put levies on our miserly wages to pay for their incompetence in handling the so called Celtic Tiger years that now have most of us broke and in debt. The public service demonstrations helped them get what they want...No wage decreases before 2014...The money should be coming from these wasters who are unable to answer phones or get up off their very large wadded bums to come to the counters of any of our public service buildings. These country wasters (most are from outside of the pale) know that if you stand your ground, even if you are wrong, you will probably win in this country that is run on consensus by this government. Public service employees should have their wages dropped from now until we are out of this mess. They are paid out of taxes No mon..No fun.... Sack as many as is possible and we will save a fortune..........Signed: Worker breaking his back to pay these freaks' wages....

Wow it's true you can't educate pork..

Unpossible

Sofa King Great wrote: »

News just in... Public Service workers pay these taxes too.

The OP's point is that if the Public Service took pay cuts and staff cuts then no-one would have to pay this new property tax. However I think the government would still implement these taxes regardless, while I have no problem paying high taxes (I used to live in a high tax country, Finland) I doubt the government is going to make the right choices with the money made.

Thats not to say of course that I don't think there should be staff cuts and wage cuts amoungst the Public Service. I think there should be wage cuts on the people there who earn more than the national average wage, and staff cuts in areas where there is incompetence or unnecessary duplication of roles where someone is idle (so frontline staff are left alone).

Elenxor

My answer to any demand for tax on my home will take the form of two words...and I don't care what happens after that. I have had enough!!!!

Unpossible

Actually today on newstalk some guy was floating the idea of scrapping income tax and only taxing assets. Apparently it makes it easier to stop rich people avoiding tax. Seems like an interesting concept, but I would have to read more on its implementation before forming an opinion on it.

Capt'n Midnight

If we have to pay rates will this mean the stealth taxes for the stuff they used to pay for will be removed ???

(as it's AH I'll mention that it's rhetorical)

Pittens

What about people i the counties around Dublin where their houses are worth 10 -20 times what they paid for it many years ago. Could they really afford it? Before someone says these people will likely be retired council tax in the UK is still payable by pensioners (students also have to pay if they are living with any non-students).

If their homes are worth ten times what they bought them for and they cant afford the property tax they can sell the houses at the 1,000% profit and go live somewhere cheaper. meanwhile the house can be used by a family and bought cheaper as there will be more on the market. During Ireland booms parts of Dublin - the rich parts - lost populations per capita as people moved to the outer boondocks.

Property taxes, and/or occupation taxes, or both are universal - even in the capitlist USA. A good idea, property tax.

turnfan

The tax will be calculated on the sq ft area of your house, I'm sure, easier than valuations. Wasn't this in existence before?

Mal-Adjusted

dgrump1 wrote: »

The Coalition government are sending out feelers to see what reaction there will be to bringing back rates or some form of taxation of your living accommodation. They are wondering are we going to stand by and bow our heads again like what we did when they increased the taxes and put levies on our miserly wages to pay for their incompetence in handling the so called Celtic Tiger years that now have most of us broke and in debt. The public service demonstrations helped them get what they want...No wage decreases before 2014...The money should be coming from these wasters who are unable to answer phones or get up off their very large wadded bums to come to the counters of any of our public service buildings. These country wasters (most are from outside of the pale) know that if you stand your ground, even if you are wrong, you will probably win in this country that is run on consensus by this government. Public service employees should have their wages dropped from now until we are out of this mess. They are paid out of taxes No mon..No fun.... Sack as many as is possible and we will save a fortune..........Signed: Worker breaking his back to pay these freaks' wages....

Wow, way to go. Throwing the government, the public service and people from outside dublin into the same pot? Id facepalm, but what's the point?

ejmaztec

Richard tea wrote: »

Oh the bold people in the PS make me sad:( Boo hoo hoo

Is PS the "Private Sector" or the "Public Sector"?

How does this extend to businesses?

amacachi

Sure **** it, let's just keep borrowing more and more as a state. Cuts? NOOOO! Tax hikes? NOOOO!

galwayrush

I will refuse to pay it, i have had enough, what will they do, build more prisons ( with more borrowed money) to put away people like me who can't afford it?:mad:

conorhal

Pittens wrote: »

If their homes are worth ten times what they bought them for and they cant afford the property tax they can sell the houses at the 1,000% profit and go live somewhere cheaper. meanwhile the house can be used by a family and bought cheaper as there will be more on the market. During Ireland booms parts of Dublin - the rich parts - lost populations per capita as people moved to the outer boondocks.

Property taxes, and/or occupation taxes, or both are universal - even in the capitlist USA. A good idea, property tax.

So you're saying that people should be forced to sell their homes? A home isn't just some financial asset, it's as often as not the place you grew up and raised your children, the area where your friends and family live, the community you are a part of, not just bricks and mortar. Are you seriously telling me that my elderly parents that live in Blackrock, in a house the bought for 15 thousand pounds should now in their old age be exiled to fcukin Meath so that we thousands so overpaid civil servants in the HSE with nothing to do can keep their jobs?

Don't think so.

viking

easyeason3 wrote: »

Heard it on the radio, a tax of anything from €250 - €3000.
What determines how much you pay if they bring this tax in?

It is understood that the property tax would be based on the size and value of a property. Homeowners liable for the tax could also be forced to pay to have their homes valued.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/jobless-and-low-paid-will-not-be-hit-by-property-tax-2232557.html

Oh, and I'm fcuked if I'm going to be paying this unfair tax. Its got no correlation to my earnings (or more importantly my net income/expendible income) but purely on the perceived value of the 4 walls and roof over my family's head.

Pittens

Are you seriously telling me that my elderly parents that live in Blackrock, in a house the bought for 15 thousand pounds should now in their old age be exiled to fcukin Meath so that we thousands so overpaid civil servants in the HSE with nothing to do can keep their jobs?

yes, thats exactly what I am saying... They can sell up and make a profit and go live in "Meath" ( or in the city centre if they want to buy as cheap as Meath these days).

That would mean my sister who lives near Meath can go live in a cheaper BlackRock. She has to travel to work, and has children she has to send to nursery.

And this point is seperate from the HSE anyway. ( I am sure that a lot of people living in BlackRock are workers in the HSE).

Your parent's profit in their house is a once off generational thing. They were lucky. A bit of tax on them on profits in their walls they did not earn would be a very good thing.

mathie

Maison Uneven Marinade wrote: »

Grammar nazi? Who fcuking cares, really...

Not grammar nazis.
It's the lesser spotted Semantics Nazi.
An ugly breed.

Johnny Bitte

Pittens wrote: »

yes, thats exactly what I am saying... They can sell up and make a profit and go live in "Meath" ( or in the city centre if they want to buy as cheap as Meath these days).

That would mean my sister who lives near Meath can go live in a cheaper BlackRock. She has to travel to work, and has children she has to send to nursery.

And this point is seperate from the HSE anyway. ( I am sure that a lot of people living in BlackRock are workers in the HSE).

Good god, back to bed with you!!


This government hasnt a ****ing clue whats it doing and as usual we'll sit here and do nothing.

People are losing their homes because the banks that they governement bailed with our money dont give a ****.
So what does the government do, "ah sur tax the property". there must be somebody in the country that still has 20 cent left in there pocket!!:mad:

I work in the Private sector but have relatives who work in the Public and I cannot understand how people think these people are rolling around in money??

The greatest trick Fianna Fail has pulled was turning the Public sector against the Private so no one can see they are still getting paid ridiculous amounts of money to do nothing but **** things up more.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

conorhal wrote: »

So you're saying that people should be forced to sell their homes? A home isn't just some financial asset, it's as often as not the place you grew up and raised your children, the area where your friends and family live, the community you are a part of, not just bricks and mortar. Are you seriously telling me that my elderly parents that live in Blackrock, in a house the bought for 15 thousand pounds should now in their old age be exiled to fcukin Meath so that we thousands so overpaid civil servants in the HSE with nothing to do can keep their jobs?

Don't think so.

viking wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/jobless-and-low-paid-will-not-be-hit-by-property-tax-2232557.html

Oh, and I'm fcuked if I'm going to be paying this unfair tax. Its got no correlation to my earnings (or more importantly my net income/expendible income) but purely on the perceived value of the 4 walls and roof over my family's head.

SECOND HOMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wibbs

Dont see an issue with taxing second homes TBH. They are usually either holiday homes or "investment" homes for people who bought into the property bubble BS. Taxing primary homes I would take issue with.

I have no issue paying tax. Have paid enough over the years. I do have an issue with how mine and everyone elses taxes are utilised. We seem to have in this country the inability to spend the tax revenue wisely. We seem to have a handy knack of making 100 euro look like 1 as far as value is concerned. We throw good money after bad in certain sectors and squeeze the finance of others. We do have a bloated public service in many areas. Not all but enough for it to be a concern. This is not a public service bashing exercise on my part. I have known too many people in it. Most working as hard as any in the private sector, but again others in PS happyland sitting on their hands. The latter need to be scraped off, but I cant see that happening anytime soon.

conorhal

Pittens wrote: »

yes, thats exactly what I am saying... They can sell up and make a profit and go live in "Meath" ( or in the city centre if they want to buy as cheap as Meath these days).

That would mean my sister who lives near Meath can go live in a cheaper BlackRock. She has to travel to work, and has children she has to send to nursery.

And this point is seperate from the HSE anyway. ( I am sure that a lot of people living in BlackRock are workers in the HSE).

Your parent's profit in their house is a once off generational thing. They were lucky. A bit of tax on them on profits in their walls they did not earn would be a very good thing.

Frankly, neither I nor my folks owe your sister a house in Blackrock, why should they have to uproot their lives to suit either you or her?

How dare you suggest that my parents didn't earn what they have. Everything they have they worked hard for for the last 50 years, at 66 my mum is still working and at 70 my dad retired last year. Twice they had to emigrate to earn a living and keep a roof over their head and I'd imagine that they have no intention of handing it to your self entitled sister, if she want's it she can earn it just as they did. They have payed the government everything they owed and they do not owe the government a bail out for it's fiscal mismanagement.
They invested wisely, and they are entitled to reap the rewards of their labour, we don't live in a communist state where the accumulation of wealth is illegal.

Pittens

Everything they have the worked hard for for the last 50 years, at 66 my mum is still working and at 70 my dad retired last year. Twice they had to emigrate to earn a living and keep a roof over their head and I'd imagine that they have no intention of handing it to your self entitled sister, if she want's it she can earn it just as they did. The invested wisely, and they are entitled to reap the rewards of their labour, we don't live in a communist state where the accumulation of wealth is illegal.

Who says she is self-entitled? She is working as hard as your parents generation, but unlike them is in negative equity. The wealth your parents didnt earn is in their house. You mentioned that it was bought for 15k? So if it is now worth whatever ( million?) the difference is not something they paid . They provided goods and services worth 15K and interest over the lifetime of the loan, the property increased because of the other factors related to other people working hard. Nothing wrong with that either, but why shouldn't it be taxed? And property there increased based on other factors:

For instance the Dart line. That was a clear subsidy for people living in Blackrock, and most countries use property tax to pay for infrastructural improvements. Your parents got an increase in the wealth because the income tax of other people was used to pay for it.

( I would prefer that property tax stayed local, though).

And as for inheritance, that should be 100%. It makes a mockery of the supposed fairness of capitalism - that fairness based on the idea that people are paid for the skills and hard work - that one guy busting his butt off to earn €100K euro a year is taxed at a very high rate, while someone inheriting that amount gets it free.

conorhal

Pittens wrote: »

Who says she is self-entitled? She is working as hard as your parents generation, but unlike them is in negative equity. The wealth your parents didnt earn is in their house. You mentioned that it was bought for 15k? So if it is now worth whatever ( million?) the difference is not something they paid . They provided goods and services worth 15K and interest over the lifetime of the loan, the property increased because of the other factors related to other people working hard. Nothing wrong with that either, but why shouldn't it be taxed? And property there increased based on other factors:

For instance the Dart line. That was a clear subsidy for people living in Blackrock, and most countries use property tax to pay for infrastructural improvements. Your parents got an increase in the wealth because the income tax of other people was used to pay for it.

( I would prefer that property tax stayed local, though).

And as for inheritance, that should be 100%. It makes a mockery of the supposed fairness of capitalism - that fairness based on the idea that people are paid for the skills and hard work - that one guy busting his butt off to earn €100K euro a year is taxed at a very high rate, while someone inheriting that amount gets it free.

My parents house is not worth anything close to a million.

As far as I'm aware, if you use the Dart, you pay for a ticket. If there is any subsidy for that infrastructure, it is paid for out of the tax revenue that they contributed to. How many times exactly are people expected to be taxed on the same euro?
What my folks have they have bought and paid for. To suggest an inheritance is ‘free money’ is absolute bollox. That money was taxed when it was earned (have you ANY IDEA what the tax rates in this country were in the 70's?, double what they are now), it was taxed when they bought the house in the late 60's, it was taxed with the stamp duty they paid when they did so, it was taxed by the rates they paid up until ’77 when they were abolished and when they die it will be substantially taxed when they pass it on.

I'm guessing that you don't have kids. If you did you might, like my parents do, have a primary concern that they should not have to struggle as you did to keep a roof over their head, or that they might actually have one. You might want to leave them some cash to ensure that your kids have some financial security so that they can use it to improve their lives, so that the next generation can afford to go to college, afford childcare and perhaps not have to commute every day from Meath leaving then too tired to play to their kids.
It sickens me that a government feels entitled to every last drop of blood and sweat it can squeeze out of a taxpayer and in the end leave them with nothing, THAT makes a mockery of the fairness of capitalism. And for what? So that some builders and bankers can keep their millions?

As I said, the accumulation of wealth is not illegal, when wealth is accumulated it is usually invested, which in turn generated taxes and jobs. If you want to live in a communist state where all accumulated wealth is invested in the government go and live in North Korea.