What's the point of the helpdesk forum?

recylingbin

I've had an issue open there for 2 weeks. Received one reply telling me to contact C-Mod.

Well, before I posted in helpdesk, I contacted a mod. Then a C-mod.
Then I returned to helpdesk where not only has my issue been ignored, the posts aren't being approved. Therefore,my thread has slipped to page three of the forum.

There have been plenty of mods on in the meantime, yet none of them can be arsed. My most recent pm has also been ignored.

So, what is the point of a helpdesk that offers no help?

Overheal

Page 4 actually

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055935160

And did you ever get a reply from the CMods? Or consider opening up a new ticket? Im not sure precisely how the pre-approval process works but its possible that your new posts were missed for approval due to the ticket already having dropped off the front page at the time you tried to bump it.

LoLth

I'll either poke the original admin or have a look into that for you.

Tallon

Overheal wrote: »

...... its possible that your new posts were missed for approval due to the ticket already having dropped off the front page at the time you tried to bump it.

So only issues on the front page get dealt with, if you slip to page 2 it's curtains?

jacaranda

Its an interesting question,as to what is the point of the helpdesk. reading the threads there, the main point would appear to isolate someone making a complaint and then the main thrust of the person dealing with the complaint on behalf of boards invariably seems to start from the premise that the person making the complaint is either a troublemaker, or wrong, and they will stand up for the moderator about whom the complaint is being made.

I've looked at around 30 threads there over the past few days and its hard to find one where the person making the complaint is listened to, and where the person answering the complaint doesn't stand up for the moderator.

Maybe its true that 99% of complaints are frivolous, but the impression is created there that making a complaint there is pointless.

DeVore

not being funny but how many did you find that SHOULD have been over turned but werent?

Thats surely more the point?

DeV.

tbh

jacaranda wrote: »

I've looked at around 30 threads there over the past few days and its hard to find one where the person making the complaint is listened to, and where the person answering the complaint doesn't stand up for the moderator.

It would appear you didn't look that hard, tbh.

If you filter out the questions/threads that are in the wrong forum, there are only about maybe 10% of posts that are complaining about moderation. Look at the filtering process before helpdesk threads happen:

thousands of moderation actions every day
most never questioned.
some get questioned and resolved. Some don't get resolved over PM - cat mods get involved.
Some get resolved at cat mod level, some don't
those end up in the helpdesk.

the ones that end up in helpdesk are a tiny percentage of the actions that happen, and are pre-disposed to fail because mods are not unreasonable, and cmods are not biased. Therefore, if a thread gets to helpdesk it's usually because the OP won't accept that they were in the wrong.

and yet sometimes it happens that the mods or cmods get it wrong. And then you would hope you would get a reply like this:

From only five days back:

LoLth wrote: »

If the dirty laundry directly affects a user and that user complains, then helpdesk is the place for the discussion. if we only discuss an issue with moderation behind closed doors then any decision that supports the moderator will be met with accusations of bias and mistrust.

The helpdesk is there as a resource for users to appeal a decision and for the moderators to present their side of the argument supporting their decision.

1. The ban from the Islam forum for Fuhrer will be lifted. From the posts in that thread I dont think the reasoning behind the ban was correct. this is not a criticism of the moderators, just of this decision.

2. The thread in the Islam forum will be left locked and allowed to float away. It went off topic quite early on and only resurfaced because of two "bump" posts.

3. A forum is to be set up for the Islam moderators as a sub forum of the Soc Mod section in the Mod Forums. Scofflaw and nesf will be set as moderators of the forum. this should be used to discuss moderation issues and help moderators gives each other a heads up and a place to discuss potential pitfalls or just ask for advice from their co-mods. It will aso serve as a useful resource for new mods in the future to help them get up to speed.

4. Fuhrer will be awarded a 1 week siteban for making a false accusation against irishconvert regarding a threatening PM. As I said, helpdesk is a resource for users and should not be open to abuse. yes, it was rescinded but only when asked for proof, the accusation itself can be damaging to a mods reputation.

If I dont hear any valid objection to these actions I'll put them in place at 5pm today.

I don't see the problem, tbh.

Overheal

Tallon wrote: »

So only issues on the front page get dealt with, if you slip to page 2 it's curtains?

That's hardly what I said.

That would be like saying if once I overlooked a stop sign that suddenly means that I run every stop sign I come across.

Tallon

Overheal wrote: »

That's hardly what I said.

That would be like saying if once I overlooked a stop sign that suddenly means that I run every stop sign I come across.

I didn't mean it like that, i meant all threads should be looked at no matter how long they're there or what page they're on. I know 1% will always slip through the crack, but your post came across as his issue wasn't being dealt with as the admins don't click on page 2

Dohnny Jepp

recylingbin wrote: »

I've had an issue open there for 2 weeks. Received one reply telling me to contact C-Mod.

Well, before I posted in helpdesk, I contacted a mod. Then a C-mod.
Then I returned to helpdesk where not only has my issue been ignored, the posts aren't being approved. Therefore,my thread has slipped to page three of the forum.

There have been plenty of mods on in the meantime, yet none of them can be arsed. My most recent pm has also been ignored.

So, what is the point of a helpdesk that offers no help?

If you have any suggestions to improve the inadequacies your believe exist with the Help Desk then there is an entire thread looking for ways to improve it! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055914038

Sparky

recylingbin I have responded to your thread there.
I dont want you to think that I was ignoring you. Personally I was on holidays last week, so would not have picked up on the thread.
You could have always sent either myself or another Admin a PM as a gentle reminder . We get them all the time.

jacaranda

DeVore wrote: »

not being funny but how many did you find that SHOULD have been over turned but werent?

Thats surely more the point?

DeV.

I wasn't looking to be the judge and jury. My point was only that the helpdesk serves the purpose of isolating anyone making a complaint (thats a fact) and, skimming through the threads there, it appears that those answering the complaint appear to start off with the assumption that the complainant is to be handled rather than the complaint addressed.

bonkey

jacaranda wrote: »

I wasn't looking to be the judge and jury. My point was only that the helpdesk serves the purpose of isolating anyone making a complaint (thats a fact) and,

Its sort of a fact.

Helpdesk serves the purpose of allowing a complaint to be dealt with in isolation. It isolates the involved parties from those who aren't involved but just wish to pass comment.

If you look at how Feedback used to be, complaints made here had the baying masses taking one side or the other (or both), and ultimately deciding when it was time to start the lolcatz-fest.

it appears that those answering the complaint appear to start off with the assumption that the complainant is to be handled rather than the complaint addressed.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

There is a dispute resolution procedure. It perhaps needs change, but right now its the procedure we have. As already mentioned, there's ongoing discussions in the Feedforward area about how to improve that...and all suggestions are welcome.

As Admins, our first requirement is to find out whether or not this procedure has been followed, because its a rare person who actually supplies the info in the OP that makes it clear it has....and in all other cases, our first response is inevitably going to be a reference back to this.

If that means we're handling the complainent and not the complaint...then yes, I guess we are. We're informing them who they need to talk to first, before coming to us...and asking if they've done this, because they haven't made it clear that they have.

The system isn't perfect...but again, there's a topic open in Feedforward where we'd welcome suggestions as to what you feel the right system (or a better system) would be.

jacaranda

bonkey wrote: »

Its sort of a fact.

Helpdesk serves the purpose of allowing a complaint to be dealt with in isolation. It isolates the involved parties from those who aren't involved but just wish to pass comment.

If you look at how Feedback used to be, complaints made here had the baying masses taking one side or the other (or both), and ultimately deciding when it was time to start the lolcatz-fest.


I'm not sure what you mean by that.

There is a dispute resolution procedure. It perhaps needs change, but right now its the procedure we have. As already mentioned, there's ongoing discussions in the Feedforward area about how to improve that...and all suggestions are welcome.

As Admins, our first requirement is to find out whether or not this procedure has been followed, because its a rare person who actually supplies the info in the OP that makes it clear it has....and in all other cases, our first response is inevitably going to be a reference back to this.

If that means we're handling the complainent and not the complaint...then yes, I guess we are. We're informing them who they need to talk to first, before coming to us...and asking if they've done this, because they haven't made it clear that they have.

The system isn't perfect...but again, there's a topic open in Feedforward where we'd welcome suggestions as to what you feel the right system (or a better system) would be.

Systems have to be run by people. and so no matter what system is instituted, it will still be run and administered by the same people. I suspect that no system will please all of the members here, and there will always be a variety of abilities and always be a tendency to stick up for the moderators who, after all, are unpaid and volunteers.

DeVore

I dunno about sticking up for Mods, we have a robust relationship between the admins (who judge HD complaints) and the Mods... I think you need to consider the possibility that a LOT of the HD threads are simply wrong.

I do agree that we cant please everyone though. We used to have a freeforall here and it was turning into blood sports. We then had a "private" resolution and it was non-transparent and people couldnt see what transpired and filled in the blanks with their own conclusions.

This is the best of a bad lot of ways to do it, but if anyone has any better suggestions we are willing to listen!

DeV.

Overheal

For those Interested, this is an open access discussion on how the website can improve the Help Desk model in the future to help things run smoother:

Feedforward (Public): Help Desk

jacaranda

No forum will please everybody, and there will always be good and less good mods, just as there will always be good and less good members. It has to be assumed, from observation, that many complaints will be either vexatious or fuelled by emotion, backed up with a clash of personalities as often as not.

Also, no one is compelled to answer questions or points made in a complaint, or a response to a complaint, and its also obvious that sometimes the "game" of the complaint can appear to be obvious, on both "sides", with petty point scoring and a lack of willingness to see that the other "side" might have a point.

I am convinced that no system will please anyone, and that no matter what system is installed then it will be no less easy to get some to agree that they might be less than perfect as a moderator, or less than perfect as a non moderator.