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Why do people say that Fianna Fail is corrupt as a matter of fact ?

  • 22-06-2010 09:40PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭


    Just curious as its a remarkably popular throwout comment to make . .

    There have certainly been individuals in the party who have done bad deeds, but that does not mean that a majority of the decisions made by the party (not individuals) were above board.

    I presume most people understand that what has happened to our economy has been mainly a result of incompetency and poor decisions by FF as opposed to corruption?.

    Also, bearing in mind that pretty much most of the politicians take advantage of the ridiculous expenses that T.D's can claim, I dont think other parties can take the moral highground (particularly "reverse paycut Kenny").

    Pens at the ready . . What is corrupt about FF or is it fair to taint a whole party with the same brush as a few rogue individuals ?


«13

Comments

  • Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Because they openly embrace certain people who have been proven to be at the very least EXTREMELY dodgy in their abuses of power.
    As opposed to coming out and cracking down on corruption in the party, people are simply let away with it and a few weeks later the population forgets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,952 ✭✭✭Lando Griffin


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Because they openly embrace certain people who have been proven to be at the very least EXTREMELY dodgy in their abuses of power.
    As opposed to coming out and cracking down on corruption in the party, people are simply let away with it and a few weeks later the population forgets.

    Hear hear.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Because they openly embrace certain people who have been proven to be at the very least EXTREMELY dodgy in their abuses of power.
    As opposed to coming out and cracking down on corruption in the party, people are simply let away with it and a few weeks later the population forgets.

    Do you not think if the Irish People took to the streets en masse and protested for accountabillity, that FF would not crack the whip ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 teleboy


    Drumpot wrote: »
    Do you not think if the Irish People took to the streets en masse and protested for accountabillity, that FF would not crack the whip ?

    Definitly.

    But,TBH,the Irish people are simply just too lazy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    Drumpot wrote: »
    Do you not think if the Irish People took to the streets en masse and protested for accountabillity, that FF would not crack the whip ?

    Nah, because we might need that FF TD to do something slightly immortal for us one day!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 138 ✭✭here2surf


    I don't understand your presumption.
    Are you saying that Fianna Fail are essentially incompetent and poor at making decisions?
    You presume we understand that all the corruption associated with Fianna Fail has little to do with the shambles our economy is now in.
    You sound a lot like Bertie and Charlie Mc.
    "if it wasn't for Lehmans, We'd still be building Ghost Estates and the developers would be living it up with us in the Galway tent......"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,378 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Because they openly embrace certain people who have been proven to be at the very least EXTREMELY dodgy in their abuses of power.
    As opposed to coming out and cracking down on corruption in the party, people are simply let away with it and a few weeks later the population forgets.

    This mostly.
    People like O Donohoe, BCF, Callally, and countless others who have been found to have questionable attitudes have all been embraced by the party. Sure they may have gone under the radar for a while but they eventually get welcomed back with open arms and arent "forced" to right their wrongs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,007 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    When you hang around with dodgy people, protect dodgy people and give them golden pensions and handshakes, don't be surprised when people start labeling you the same.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    It is much more fundamental for me.

    Leaving aside the Berties and the Beverleys for a moment, Fianna Fáil itself, as a party, traditionally espouses a culture of greed. They play on the inherent greed of ordinary people, and court these people with the promises of excessive personal gain, beyond what might be reasonably sustainable in the long term. Because they only govern with a view to the next election, never beyond. You can have the new car every year, the second house, and the holiday home in France, four holidays a year, and bloated public services funded by what is sold dishonestly as a 'low tax' economy. The fact that your neighbour down the road might be going out of business due to the reckless imbalance in society that provides you with a Monte Carlo lifestyle on a middle class income, is never acknowledged. We'll find some other lie to keep him quiet.

    In this way, Fianna Fáil has sold a pup to generations of easily duped voters. Who is going to vote for a fiscally sensible and balanced standard of living when there is a snake oil salesman promising you unfettered riches and good times? Never mind that Las Vegas today probably means Detroit city tomorrow. Know this - Fianna Fáil understand NOTHING other than a farcical hope for a return to boom and gluttony as soon as possible. It's all they know, and failing that, they are all at sea. It is as much as they can do to scramble the deckchairs and save themselves, and to hell with the voters they duped through three fire auction elections.

    It is easy to blame ordinary voters, and there is an element of truth in that, but the public voted for a dream that was too good to be true. Fianna Fáil corrupted a generation of this country, and now everyone is paying the price. Within that, then, you have individuals, both Fianna Fáil TDs and senators, and a rogue's gallery of hanger-onners in the banking and developing arenas, who simply made an art form out of corruption.

    My point is that it is simply not enough to single out the Berties and the Beverleys, the Charlies and the Seanies, and hope to carry on regardless, business as usual. The corrupting influence of Fianna Fáil on politics and society in general needs to be examined, to see if there is any way of pulling society back from the whoremasters, who would sell their granny for a seat in power, and point the country in a whole new direction, where fairness and accountability, and most importantly, LONG TERM vision would be the way forward. We need an end to the short term selfish society of Fianna Fáil, and the only way to have that is to exclude Fianna Fáil as much as possible from any say in the matter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭goat2


    Drumpot wrote: »
    Just curious as its a remarkably popular throwout comment to make . .

    There have certainly been individuals in the party who have done bad deeds, but that does not mean that a majority of the decisions made by the party (not individuals) were above board.

    I presume most people understand that what has happened to our economy has been mainly a result of incompetency and poor decisions by FF as opposed to corruption?.

    Also, bearing in mind that pretty much most of the politicians take advantage of the ridiculous expenses that T.D's can claim, I dont think other parties can take the moral highground (particularly "reverse paycut Kenny").

    Pens at the ready . . What is corrupt about FF or is it fair to taint a whole party with the same brush as a few rogue individuals ?
    what posessed you to ask that question, when you put one rotton spud in a bag of spuds it infects the lot, the same with apples, and the same with ----


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,353 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    goat2 wrote: »
    what posessed you to ask that question, when you put one rotton spud in a bag of spuds it infects the lot, the same with apples, and the same with ----

    If that's the case then everyone who posts in afterhours is a bigot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    maybe their ex boss not having a bank account and winning alot of money on brown envelopes horses has helped the reputation

    btw @OP i noticed you are defending FF lately, why is that? are you affiliated?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Liam Lawlor (planning/corruption)
    Ray Burke (jailed for corruption/tax evasion)
    Charles Haughey (done for amongst things, accepting political donations, Des Traynor tax evasion schemes............)
    John Ellis.
    Denis Foley (tax evasion)
    Beverley Cooper Flynn (need I say more)
    Bertie Ahern (need I say more)
    Padraic Flynn (need I say more)
    Michael Collins TD Limerick (tax evasion)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭goat2


    and the boss before him owning an island, sailing from dublin to kerry living high, while telling the rest of us mere mortals to tighten our belts, we were barly getting by with the hugh inflated mortgages, while he partied


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭goat2


    hinault wrote: »
    Liam Lawlor (planning/corruption)
    Ray Burke (jailed for corruption/tax evasion)
    Charles Haughey (done for amongst things, accepting political donations, Des Traynor tax evasion schemes............)
    John Ellis.
    Denis Foley (tax evasion)is norma foley his daughter, today she would not give up her council expenses to improving the roads, would rather spend them on attending some conference, while councellor spring is giving his to improving he roads
    Beverley Cooper Flynn (need I say more)
    Bertie Ahern (need I say more)
    Padraic Flynn (need I say more)
    Michael Collins TD Limerick (tax evasion)
    is that all of them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    goat2 wrote: »
    is that all of them

    I'm sure there are more but I cannot recall them at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭kuntboy


    I wouldn't mind but going to the races is the extent of their imagination on how to spend their hard earned cash.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Drumpot wrote: »
    Pens at the ready . . What is corrupt about FF or is it fair to taint a whole party with the same brush as a few rogue individuals ?

    When the rest of the party condone those actions by voting confidence in them, lying through their teeth to deflect blame from them, and elect 2 of them as leaders ?

    Yes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭sxt


    "Power leads to corruption" and being in power for the best part of 80 years and for the last 20 years speaks for itself. Alot of people down the years were FF for life, no matter what carry on they got up to, they would still give them their vote and FF were blissfully aware of this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,131 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    hinault wrote: »
    Liam Lawlor (planning/corruption)
    Ray Burke (jailed for corruption/tax evasion)
    Charles Haughey (done for amongst things, accepting political donations, Des Traynor tax evasion schemes............)
    John Ellis.
    Denis Foley (tax evasion)
    Beverley Cooper Flynn (need I say more)
    Bertie Ahern (need I say more)
    Padraic Flynn (need I say more)
    Michael Collins TD Limerick (tax evasion)

    Probably need to add wee Willie O Dea to the list for his spreading rumours another politician, Also Dr Michael Woods for his deal with the church on the abuse. Im sure there are more.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    FF voters are a bit like hardcore Catholics in a way. They know abuse has gone on and that the leadership are morally bankrupt, but they display an amazing ability to block it out in an Orwellian doublethink way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    They made me buy a 3 bed house for €500,000 and now i lost my job and it's totally their fault


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    eoinbn wrote: »
    Nah, because we might need that FF TD to do something slightly immortal for us one day!

    Top post, and totally true at the end of the day. We'll complain to the high heavens about something but most of us won't think twice about doing the same should the opportunity arise. this moral high ground makes me sick to be honest, and completly deflects from the job in hand of getting this country's finances sorted asap. Personally I don't care which party does it as long as someone does it

    Pots and kettles


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Top post, and totally true at the end of the day. We'll complain to the high heavens about something but most of us won't think twice about doing the same should the opportunity arise. this moral high ground makes me sick to be honest, and completly deflects from the job in hand of getting this country's finances sorted asap. Personally I don't care which party does it as long as someone does it

    Pots and kettles

    Sounds like you're defending gombeen behaviour and political corruption to me tbh. I've never tried to use or lobby a politician to do something for me, what have they done for you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭bijapos


    Drumpot wrote: »
    Do you not think if the Irish People took to the streets en masse and protested for accountabillity, that FF would not crack the whip ?

    It should not be up to the Irish people to go on the streets to rid ourselves of corruption and demand accountability. It should be up to FF to see that their member is behaving wrong and to then permanently exclude them from the party when it is known that they are doing this.

    Until FF start to show zero tolerance to the likes of Burke, Cooper et al they will gain no respect or vote from a large majority of the population. They should be the ones policing themselves, not us.

    That said people have constantly voted the corrupt ones in on a regular basis.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    eoinbn wrote: »
    Nah, because we might need that FF TD to do something slightly immortal for us one day!

    They might be able to cheat lots of things, but I doubt even they could manage death.....

    ......mind you, I suppose - like everything else - it depends on where your contacts are!!!! ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Sounds like you're defending gombeen behaviour and political corruption to me tbh. I've never tried to use or lobby a politician to do something for me, what have they done for you?

    they did what the brown envelope paid them to do:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Honestly OP? It's not rocket science...
    For the same reason certain third world governments are deemed to be corrupt; for the same reasons certain third world police forces are deemed to be corrupt:

    because they have been proven time and again to be corrupt and they've done nothing to rectify that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    they did what the brown envelope paid them to do:rolleyes:
    ...which may be fine if they were only paid in brown envelopes.

    They are, however, paid very well by the public. (Most for a number of jobs!) But don't let that bother you. :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Top post, and totally true at the end of the day. We'll complain to the high heavens about something but most of us won't think twice about doing the same should the opportunity arise. this moral high ground makes me sick to be honest, and completly deflects from the job in hand of getting this country's finances sorted asap. Personally I don't care which party does it as long as someone does it

    Pots and kettles

    This is why I mistook you for a FFer. By overlooking the corruption, the acceptance of corruption within its ranks and the incompetence, you are sounding very like a FFer.
    Tipp Man wrote: »
    You've got me completly wrong. I'm not a FF'er at all, in fact have never voted in this state (Uni and working abroad for a few years). I've no idea where you got the idea that I was FFer. I have no alligence to any party but I do know that I am no leftie. (intruiged as to why you think I'm a FF'er?? is it because i stated I wasn't a FGer either but I'm clearly a right of centre so I must be a FFer)
    Apologies Tipp Man, I try and keep the names of the 12 or so FFers on this forum in my head and your name must've accidentally crept in there.

    I've never lobbied a politician (especially for a personal issue) nor would anyone I know find it appropriate.
    Tipp Man wrote: »
    they did what the brown envelope paid them to do:rolleyes:
    You serious? If you excuse them of their corrupt members so easily I'll withdraw my apology for thinking you are one of them


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