Cars with replaced engines

squiggers

hi there,

i'm in the process of buying a used car and would really appreciate if someone could give some advice on the following:


does it happen a lot that used cars have their engines replaced and should this be a deterrant when buying a car?

does this have any reprecussions for the nct?

has anyone had any dealings with wright motors in airways industrial estate in santry, positive or negative?


The background to my questions is such: I had a look at a car last week - Mazda Demio, 2300K, 2002, 1.3L, 71K miles, nct'd for a year and a half, drove very nicely etc. so far so good.

i then asked the mechanic to give it a full service before i get it off him. which he did - but in the process he put the wrong oil filter in (apparently his suppliers fault) which then damaged the engine.

he was very apologetic about it and offered me my deposit back straight away. but he also mentioned that he is going to put in a different engine - same model, only a year younger, and about 10K less mileage; it would be obviously up to me whatever I want to do but i could test drive it with the new engine and see what I think. he'd also give me 3 months warranty if i decide to take the car.

the mechanic did, to be honest, sound very genuine and said that in his opinion, the newer engine looks actually in better nick than the original one. but he'd understand if i didn't want to take it.

i just don't know anything about cars so i'd really appreciate any advice from more expertly people!!

Anan1

I'd leave it TBH, as you've no way of knowing how the replacement engine has been cared for. Shame, as he does sound like he's being very straight up about it.

mondeo

I'd give it a miss...

Barr

I cant see the problem , your getting a fresher engine with less mileage.

Get the mechanic to do a full service for the same price and your sorted.

johnos1984

Seriously though if the mechanic can't get the correct filter onto the engine how can you have faith in their skill in doing an engine swap.

I'd leave it, the guy seems since and genuine but he is still trying to get rid of the car. I'd imagine the 'wrong filter' is an excuse

Anan1

Barr wrote: »

I cant see the problem , your getting a fresher engine with less mileage.

How do we know either of these things?

MagicMarker

How convenient of him to just pop another engine in there! A little too convenient.....

Anan1

MagicMarker wrote: »

How convenient of him to just pop another engine in there! A little too convenient.....

Sure what else would he do if the old engine is toast?

bladebrew

it does sound a bit strange, would it be possible to put the wrong filter on the car? unless he put it on wrong then it fell off halfway down the road?!

lol at shifty eyes dog:D^^

mickdw

Sound like a dodgy story to me. Walk away

Motorcheck

Second hand engines are a no-go unless they've been properly reconditioned and come with a bullet proof warranty. Unless it's a main dealer that can stand over the engine, the ECU and all the related components I'd leave it.

CaraFawn

Motorcheck wrote: »

Second hand engines are a no-go unless they've been properly reconditioned and come with a bullet proof warranty. Unless it's a main dealer that can stand over the engine, the ECU and all the related components I'd leave it.

No let's not generalise. I know what you are saying but engines do go bad for many reasons, and swapping the faulty one with a used/new one is not necessarely a bad sign when done properly. Many engines do have design flaws (Take the BMW diesel with their plastic flaps that has a tendency to break, and when it does it is sucked into the cylinder...)

I know for instance a high-end 2006 7 series that went belly up, the garage in question (Independant specialist) took a used engine, refurbished it and fitted it. It has been running great without any issue since. And this is a chauffeur car.
I know many other examples like that.

Engine swap does not involve changing the ECU and other components, given the fact you use the same equivalent engine. It is straight forward enough.

Also most main dealers do not swap engines, some do of course, but most customers would not approach a main dealer to get a reconditionned fitted. That would cost them the same price as buying a new one if they were to do this at a dealer, plus main dealers would not usually fit used parts...

Now of course I am not talking about Joe Blog that does that in front of his house, I am talking proper garage with the experience, fully test the engine on the road etc and is able to writte an engineer's report.

---

Barr

Anan1 wrote: »

How do we know either of these things?

Suppose the o/p gets sight of the donor car if they don’t believe a word their mechanic is telling them.

To me the mechanic sounds upfront and even offered the money back

squiggers

many thanks for all your replies!

just to let yous know, the car drove very smoothly and i didn't notice any strange noises from the engine whatsoever when i tested it on saturday. even if i didn't go past the 60km/h mark (as it was in an estate) i would tend to believe the mechanic that the problem occurred after he'd done whatever he did.

as for the fitting the wrong oil filter, i was wondering about that one too but he said that he'd ordered the part specifically for the demio and then put in what he got. i actually spoke to him before he even knew where the problem was (of course he might have been told that the part would do even if it isn't a demio-specific one and believed it)

i think i'll go and test drive it anyway and try to read the mechanics reactions about where the new engine came from and see what else he can do.

I am talking proper garage with the experience, fully test the engine on the road etc and is able to writte an engineer's report.

thanks for that, CaraFawn! as for the garage, it does look proper to me, but then again, who am i to say!

here's a link for it: http://www.wrightmotors.ie

johnb25

Part of the OP question was reagarding NCT, etc.
I am just curious how a replacement engine is handled in a vehicle history check for example, or any other documentation.

CaraFawn

johnb25 wrote: »

Part of the OP question was reagarding NCT, etc.
I am just curious how a replacement engine is handled in a vehicle history check for example, or any other documentation.

It i supposed to be declared, the new serial number of the engine sent to Rosslare and a new registration cert sent to the owner.

Now, not everybody does that.

If the job has been done properly but no notification made, there is not way you can tell the engine has been swapped. Unless it is different from what it is supposed to be of course...

GTE

How about getting a reputable garage to do it as part of the deal?
He would probably say no because of cost but thats the only way Id take it.

When I got my car I asked for a full service incl. timing belt before I took it and when I took it home the car chugged and went into limp mode. Oil everywhere. All the bad things.
Instead of taking the car back to the dealer like he originally asked me to do instead I took it to a VW dealer and got it checked from bumper to bumper.

Luckily it was just a pipe that wasn't re-secured properly but that sounds like the best course of action.

The dealer was very happy with that result but Id say his mechanic got a bollocking.

Divorce Referendum

CaraFawn wrote: »

It i supposed to be declared, the new serial number of the engine sent to Rosslare and a new registration cert sent to the owner.

Now, not everybody does that.

If the job has been done properly but no notification made, there is not way you can tell the engine has been swapped. Unless it is different from what it is supposed to be of course...

Wouldnt the engine no. be different from the one on the logbook if no notification occured?

CaraFawn

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Wouldnt the engine no. be different from the one on the logbook if no notification occured?

Yes indeed you are right.
Not always easy to check though, often the number is casted on the side.

Divorce Referendum

CaraFawn wrote: »

Yes indeed you are right.
Not always easy to check though, often the number is casted on the side.

Yes that is very true. I recall looking at a couple of cars and not being able to find it.

squiggers

johnb25 wrote: »

vehicle history check for example, or any other documentation.

that's a very valid point too, thanks. I was told by another mechanic since that I shouldn't worry about the current NCT, as noone asks whether the engine has been changed or not and I shouldn't worry if i ever want to sell it on either. wright motors also offered to do an emmissions test on the replacement engine.

the history check thing sounds interesting though. where do they get the info for their reports? how could they trace if the chassis and the engine came from separate sources?

squiggers

ups, didn't realize the discussion had spread to a second page of replies!

bbk wrote: »

How about getting a reputable garage to do it as part of the deal?

didn't think that was a thing one could do. do you mean getting the engine checked by a mazda dealer?

Nonoperational

How did the wrong oil filter write off the engine I wonder? Unless It didn't seal on properely and dumped all the oil out on the road... Stange.

squiggers

gpf101 wrote: »

How did the wrong oil filter write off the engine I wonder? Unless It didn't seal on properely and dumped all the oil out on the road... Stange.

apparently it sent oil into the engine at the wrong pressure.

GTE

squiggers wrote: »

didn't think that was a thing one could do. do you mean getting the engine checked by a mazda dealer?

Well, when the pipe blew off on my car on the drive home from the garage we thought the worst and the dealer thought that the engine had blown or something had gone seriously wrong because of the service.

Considering it was their fault and they admitted that we used that as leverage to get it checked over and assessed by a main VW dealer garage and we sent the bill to the guy we bought it off.

What I mean is getting the Mazda dealer to replace the engine since you can trust them and send the bill to the eegit you are buying it off. Or get the Mazda dealer to check that car with a fine tooth comb and see if it can be fixed.

Whatever you do, do it at a main dealer and send the bill on.

squiggers

Hey bbk,

it is pricewise a relatively cheap car (getting it for 2,300 plus he knocked 350 off for my old car which is about fair). i'm afraid letting the mazda people find an engine and fit it would probably cost too much in relation. i tend to go with CaraFawn on this one.

CaraFawn wrote: »

most main dealers do not swap engines, some do of course, but most customers would not approach a main dealer to get a reconditionned fitted. That would cost them the same price as buying a new one if they were to do this at a dealer, plus main dealers would not usually fit used parts...---

As for fixing the existing engine, the mechanic that's selling the car said that he could try and fix it but he'd be a bit weary how long it would last then and said the better option is probably to fit the new engine.

i'm now thinking of getting a basic motorcheck done on the 'donor car' (what a term!!) - provided that i get the reg details! and ask the mechanic for a full road test and report on the replacement engine - whether he does it himself or brings it to a major dealer.

Motorcheck

Each Motorcheck car history check details the engine number that should be in the car. It's a matter of comparing the engine number on the report with that of the VLC and the physical engine in the car.

CaraFawn's right. It can be difficult to know where to look but if you need help just let me know. We have information on the location of most serial numbers available at HQ.

mumof2

I had a Mazda Demio just like the model your getting (the older version) and it was a brilliant very reliable car. Then came the new model, got the 05 model, (newer version) and I had nothing but trouble, and ended giving back the car to the dealer and lost out on Eur500.

In this case I'd steer clear as well.

(I also had an engine replacement in a Ford Mondeo Diesel, and as soon as it was replaced (all done under warranty), I had trouble getting rid of the car after as it showed up in the history, so not a great idea).

dr.fuzzenstein

mumof2 wrote: »

(I also had an engine replacement in a Ford Mondeo Diesel, and as soon as it was replaced (all done under warranty), I had trouble getting rid of the car after as it showed up in the history, so not a great idea).

So if you're buying this car get as much documentation as you anyhow can and don't sell it on too quickly.
Engineers report as well, so you can show it's been done properly and not by some cowboy in his backyard.
If you're buying it to keep for a long time, no problem, if you're buying it and selling it on fairly soon, alarm bells would ring with every potential buyer (engine swap, quick resale=trouble in the buyers mind)

squiggers

Thanks guys for all your comments, I really appreciated it.

Yeah...I'm starting to think that this whole story started out wrong. And it doesn't look like I can find out where the replacement engine came from.

Going to look at a Suzuki today:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Suzuki/Liana/1.3-GL/201004196709414/advert?channel=CARS

I don't know much about Suzukis, but guess it's a Jap and hence can't be too bad.

Does anyone have any experience with this one?

johnos1984

Get the saloon and be just like TopGear

Not a bad car just the styling is a little off. Should be very reliable as its got lots of Toyota in it!

squiggers

lol, only googled it together with 'top gear' now and lo and behold!!

i actually don't mind the styling...very roomy and the dashboard display is gas it drove quite nicely too. the only thing to get used to is the gearstick (a bit stiff for my liking) and the indicator/wipers are reversed but surely these are things one can live with.