Bus lane lights at Stillorgan

Cookie_Monster

Anyone know the one, southbound just after the hotel to allow buses to cross the lanes into the turnoff for Stillorgan.

You're allowed use the bus lane after 7pm and on Sundays but what's the story with this light.

Its green but specifically says "bus" on it, so if you are a car in the bus lane can you go when this is green and the rest still red.

Does the light cover only buses or the bus lane?

Colm R

Honestly, I'd say its bus only.

Is it designed to allow a bus in the left most lane turn right across all lanes. If so, I would not be tempted to use it when the bus lane is not in operation.

Allowing buses turn right from the left most lanes is actually a great idea. Keeps the regular lanes free of big buses desperate to cross traffic. I can think of loads of places in the city center where this would help.

cormie

I've gone on it before and also the one just after the hotel in Donnybrook going southbound aswell. The way I see it is it's a green light for the bus lane, not buses. It's giving that lane a green light, not a particular vehicle in it. Sure think about it, its purpose wouldn't be served if you were in front of a bus and didn't go and the bus was left wait. Taxi's also go on it too and so do I

HonalD

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Anyone know the one, southbound just after the hotel to allow buses to cross the lanes into the turnoff for Stillorgan.

You're allowed use the bus lane after 7pm and on Sundays but what's the story with this light.

Its green but specifically says "bus" on it, so if you are a car in the bus lane can you go when this is green and the rest still red.

Does the light cover only buses or the bus lane?

I believe that this bus pre-signal is not covered by legislation. It therefore has no statutory basis so I would recommend only proceeding in accordance with the green, amber and red signals - if you were involved in an accident then you would be liable if you ignored the statutory signals.

Some bus signals are only triggered by bus vehicles and not taxis, I don't know about this one - it may only come on when a bus approaches it. I think that the bus signals in Tallaght Village (near the IT Tallaght) also only go green when a bus approaches and not taxis. I think that this is a bus-only street section of roadway so this would be different to the Stillorgan example.

Bottom line, if in doubt, don't do it! Unless fortune favours the brave! (Is there really an advantage in off-peak times using the bus lane at Stillorgan?)

Del2005

HonalD wrote: »

(Is there really an advantage in off-peak times using the bus lane at Stillorgan?)

Your supposed to drive in the left most lane unless turning right or over taking. So by law everyone should be in it, when it's not a bus lane as it reverts to being a traffic lane

bryanw

Funny, for a bus priority signal that is supposed to improve the journey time... it actually facilitates the lengthening of journey time by bringing the bus through Stillorgan. Kind of an oxymoron.

Also... does this light apply to cyclists, as I would pass it on my way home. I usually go if the "bus" light goes green. Should I? What if there is a bus behind me...?

steve-o

Del2005 wrote: »

Your supposed to drive in the left most lane unless turning right or over taking. So by law everyone should be in it, when it's not a bus lane as it reverts to being a traffic lane

Well, we are in Ireland, so nothing is ever as it seems. At almost every junction along that road, the left lane is clearly marked with a "turn left" arrow. So that means all traffic must turn left. In most places it is also marked "Except Buses", which I guess means anything except a bus must turn left, even outside bus lane hours. Not that anyone pays the slightest notice to it.

cormie

I think that's really only giving drivers allowance to be in bus lanes inside operating hours, to turn left, I don't think it means that while in an out of hour bus lane, you must get into the middle lane (driving lane inside bus lane hours) and then hop back into the driving lane (bus lane outside hours) to continue going straight.

Would be interesting to see any legislations surrounding this!

Del2005

steve-o wrote: »

Well, we are in Ireland, so nothing is ever as it seems. At almost every junction along that road, the left lane is clearly marked with a "turn left" arrow. So that means all traffic must turn left. In most places it is also marked "Except Buses", which I guess means anything except a bus must turn left, even outside bus lane hours. Not that anyone pays the slightest notice to it.

cormie wrote: »

I think that's really only giving drivers allowance to be in bus lanes inside operating hours, to turn left, I don't think it means that while in an out of hour bus lane, you must get into the middle lane (driving lane inside bus lane hours) and then hop back into the driving lane (bus lane outside hours) to continue going straight.

Would be interesting to see any legislations surrounding this!

+1.

The law clearly states that you drive in the left most lane.

Is there even any legal basis for "Except Buses" written on the road? Do they confirm with our laws? Are the buses the one breaking the law as usually there is only a left turn arrow, which has legal standing, and then writing on the road?

I had a quick look in the Irish Statue site but it's like trying to read double Dutch to me

bmaxi

bryanw wrote: »

Also... does this light apply to cyclists, as I would pass it on my way home. I usually go if the "bus" light goes green. Should I? What if there is a bus behind me...?

I didn't think any traffic signals applied to cyclists. :rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster

HonalD wrote: »

(Is there really an advantage in off-peak times using the bus lane at Stillorgan?)

there is a huge advantage in being there from 19.01 onwards if you are on the road on the way home. traffic is still very heavy at tis stage.

And its the legal requirement too.

karl75

im a driver and its only for buses and no it doesnt change when we approach it we wait for the green on it so as we can get across the lanes for stillorgan village hope this helps.i know of a story a driver went through it on green and up behind him in the village came a bike cop said he broke light driver told him we had a bus filter light told him to wait while he went back to check needless to say he never came back a right sickener for him

cormie

Karl, I don't fully understand your story? I still believe it's giving the green to the bus LANE as opposed to only buses, have you anything to back up that it's only for buses?

Del2005

Have to agree with cormie on this. By law it reverts to a normal traffic lane once it's out of hours. Are all law abiding motorists supposed to swerve around these lights? I'd say the bike cop didn't want the hassle. Are these lights even legal?

Tarabuses

I would say that it says "bus" on the green light as an abbreviation for "Bus Lane" i.e. it applies only to vehicles legally using the bus lane. In which case the signal should not operate at all when the bus lane is not in operation (as it would cause confusion by allowing any vehicle in the bus lane to move off ahead of traffic in the other lanes).

I'd say the bike cop hadn't seen the bus filter light, or been told about it.

cormie

See the thing is, it shouldn't cause confusion, if everyone knew the situation with it they'd know the bus lane gets a head start to allow for any buses within the bus lane to cross to the right hand lane, if said buses happen to be behind a car which is at the top of the queue, then so be it, the middle and right lane have a red so they can't go, the bus lane has a green so vehicles in it may proceed. That's the way I see it anyway

snappieT

Sorry to drag up this thread, but there was some confusion on exactly what the BUS light meant, so I mailed Dublin City Council to clarify. It's for buses only, not taxis or any other traffic in the bus lane.

Me to DCC wrote:

Hello,

I was hoping that you could clarify the meaning of the green "BUS"
traffic light, of which there are many installed throughout the city,
including southbound at the junction of the Malahide Road and Kilmore
Road. Does this green "BUS" light indicate that busses may proceed
straight through the junction, that any bus-lane traffic (taxis,
bicycles etc.) can proceed, or that any traffic in the bus lane (such
as private cars outside of the hours of the bus lane's operation) may
proceed?

Many thanks,
Stephen Purcell

Then two weeks later, despite their "2 day reply time":

DCC to Me wrote:

Dear Mr. Purcell,

Thank you for your email dated 24th June 2010 regarding the above.

The "BUS" filter light in place southbound on the Malahide Road bus corridor at the intersection with Kilmore Road only operates during the hours of operation of the bus lane. It is a direction for bus traffic only and does not include other vehicles authorised to use the bus lane such as taxis.

If you have any further questions or queries please do not hesitate to contact me by return or at the number below.

Regards,
Brian

markpb

That's the most confusing reply I've ever seen. Ignoring the fact that the light rarely works (and when it does, most bus drivers miss it because they're watching the off-side lights), should a taxi at the top of a queue block a bus behind?

I also like how they've conveniently ignore the other locations where the light does operate outside of bus lane hours.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Wibbler

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yup, I *love* Ireland. Our culture is so laid back, that the things that concern diligent traffic planners and engineers in other countries of the world are dealt with here with "ah sure it'll be grand".

We just don't do unambiguous self consistent lane markings, signals and signage in this country. And when you do your good citizen routine and raise a real issue, which I did recently with Fingal Co. Co., the response or resolution can take weeks or months.

It's a good thing that the enforcement of most traffic law is patchy, because a lot of people would end up falling foul of ambiguous arrangements as described above.

snappieT

markpb wrote: »

I also like how they've conveniently ignore the other locations where the light does operate outside of bus lane hours.

The Malahide Road ones operate out of hours too, I've replied to the mail to ask what the story is with that, will post the response here when I (eventually, no doubt) get it.

dRNk SAnTA

I've seen Taxis getting beeped like crazy by the bus behind them because they didn't notice the green "Bus" light

Breezer

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

I've seen Taxis getting beeped like crazy by the bus behind them because they didn't notice the green "Bus" light

I don't blame the bus driver. On this particular light in Stillorgan it could take a long time to get over across three lanes into the right-most turning lane if it didn't get the early light, delaying everybody on the bus (and probably the other four buses of the same number queued behind it - which I saw on the Stillorgan Road the other day ).

I've wondered about this too, I doubt it has a legal basis. I've long since given up on Irish traffic law, its implementation or its enforcement making any sense.

vinylrules

I always take the green "bus" light as a normal green light when in the bus lane after 7pm. It's the only sensible option, the alternative being that some vehicles in that lane have the go-ahead, while others don't! You wouldn't see it in Father Ted! During bus-lane operating hours I would imagine that buses and other vehicles that are entitled to use the bus lane (taxis, etc) would have equal status! In other words, the green light applies to the lane not to specific vehicles in that lane...

Carawaystick

snappieT wrote: »

Sorry to drag up this thread, but there was some confusion on exactly what the BUS light meant, so I mailed Dublin City Council to clarify. It's for buses only, not taxis or any other traffic in the bus lane.


Then two weeks later, despite their "2 day reply time":

Snappie, can you ask Brian at the corpo for a link to either an act, si or byelaw confirming what he states, or pm me his email and I'll do it.

snappieT

Ten days later, a reply:

I apologise for the delay in relying to your response. I spoke with the traffic officer who is only recently back from holidays and you are correct, the Malahide Road bus filter light operates outside of bus corridor times. It runs during the pedestrian phase on Kilmore Road whenever this phase is demanded and the although it could be switched off outside of the bus corridor hours, the alternative would be to simply have an all red during the out-of-hours.

In relation to the current legislative position of the bus filter light, I understand that the Department of Transport may be reviewing this so it might be worth contacting them or even the Gardai for an update on this.

Many thanks.

Regards,
Brian

Sounds to me like it's nowhere in law at all (yet).

Cookie_Monster

dear snappieT

I'm making this up and can't be arsed looking for the legislation.

thanks
Brain