Avoiding paying your child maintenance? You are about to be targeted more so!

Biggins

For those not living up to your responsibilities of not helping out towards a child you brought into the world, your on notice.
The state is now bringing in further legal legislation to make you pay for your offspring.

New law will target parents who fail to pay maintenance
20 June 2010 By Ian Kehoe and John Burke

Thousands of absent parents who are avoiding paying their child maintenance obligations are to be targeted in new legislation.
The government is to fast track the legislation governing maintenance payments, as it has come up against difficulties in its bid to crack down on those who are refusing to make the payments.

The Department of Justice and the Attorney General are currently working on new proposals which will impose tough sanctions on any individual who seeks to avoid paying maintenance.
The new laws will be introduced in the coming months through the Civil Law Bill.

The authorities have encountered significant difficulties forcing thousands of ‘liable parents’ to pay maintenance costs for their children arising from recent court rulings.
The government’s maintenance recovery unit is expecting to deal with 16,000 cases of this nature this year, the overwhelming majority of which involve cases where fathers are not making the required payment.
Although non-payment of a maintenance order is an offence, the state has encountered difficulty with imposing harsh penalties, such as prison sentences, where maintenance orders are not complied with.

In addition, difficulties have arisen in a large number of cases as a result of a landmark High Court case last year, which further restricted the state’s ability legally to enforce maintenance costs.
Under the state’s Liability to Maintain a Family Scheme, the government is mandated to pursue absent parents for some or all of the state’s welfare payments for the child’s care.
The payments include one parent family allowance, lone parent’s allowance, deserted wives’ payment and supplementary welfare allowance.

Separately, parents may agree that one party should pay maintenance to the other.
They can have that agreement sanctioned formally in court. Agreed maintenance payments vary between €5 and €500 per week. Average maintenance contributions of €65 per week are paid to spouses caring for a child.
The state pays a further €1 billion a year in lone parent payments and rent allowance to single parents. The overwhelming majority of these are women.

Source: http://www.sbpost.ie/news/new-law-will-target-parents-who-fail-to-pay-maintenance-50027.html

SugarHigh

How much does all the child maintenance usually add up to?
I think I heard somewhere before that it gets close to €200,000.:eek:

yoshytoshy

Is this in relation to cohabiting couples who are claiming single parent rent allowance etc ?

lost in my own head

and about time too. don't have the problem myself, but know a lot of ppl who do. It's just not fair that some people get away with it and leave all the bills to the one parent (mother or father) who cares for the child.

Melion

Its a joke that a parent on the dole is expected to fork out €65 to their ex for the care of 1 child.

My daughter would probably need €25 to keep her fed and clothed for a week, she's 11 months old next week.

Biggins

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Is this in relation to cohabiting couples who are claiming single parent rent allowance etc ?

Good question, maybe so. I think there might be two areas there where payments would be under question and investigation.
One possibly having a connect to the other via persons involved.

Wibbs

It would be equally nice if while they're at it if they brought in legislation to balance the the rights of fathers who are paying.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

It would be equally nice if while they're at it if they brought in legislation to balance the the rights of fathers who are paying.

Spot on

tatabubbly

Serve my dad right, he owes my mum big time, i hope they lock him up. Having a kid takes money and it works out more expensive if you work ie. childcare etc.

It's the people who aren't trying to ride the system that are the worst off

4zn76tysfajdxp

Abortions for all.

NTMK

About Fcuking time. too many people get away with not paying it

Melia

Melion wrote: »

Its a joke that a parent on the dole is expected to fork out €65 to their ex for the care of 1 child.

My daughter would probably need €25 to keep her fed and clothed for a week, she's 11 months old next week.

And how much for the extra rent, electricity, oil, creche, childcare, schoolbooks, uniforms, and all the other little expenses that come up for children your daughter's age and older?

It should be split fairly unless both parents are okay with a different arrangement.

Biggins

Another aspect to it, is all those birth certs that have father un-named.
The mother-to-be will realise that if she can't/don't name the father, she will be out of pocket - whereas the mother-to-be that does name the real father, will have more to gain.
I can't see any female wishing to lose out financially just for the sake of her non-paying sexual partner - and his maybe persuasive attempts to keep his name off the birth cert.

So boys, the days of having your fun and running away are getting lesser and lesser.

Melion

Melia wrote: »

And how much for the extra rent, electricity, oil, creche, childcare, schoolbooks, uniforms, and all the other little expenses that come up for children your daughter's age and older?

It should be split fairly unless both parents are okay with a different arrangement.

So how much should i have to pay?
I know how much it takes to feed her etc for the week/month. Nothing close to €65

yoshytoshy

Melion wrote: »

So how much should i have to pay?
I know how much it takes to feed her etc for the week/month. Nothing close to €65

I'm impartial ,I don't have kids. But I thought the legal term for a child is 0-16.
I suppose the 65 is an average based on that age ?

Mrmoe

Will people be required to take a paternity test I wonder, if a mother is making a claim or a father is denying it then I assume a paternity test will have to take it.

alwaysadub

Lawson Gentle Pantry wrote: »

Abortions for all.

Minature American flags for others..

jam_mac_jam

This is a joke that it has taken so long. About time.

Super-Rush

Minature American flags for others.

Biggins

Mrmoe wrote: »

Will people be required to take a paternity test I wonder, if a mother is making a claim or a father is denying it then I assume a paternity test will have to take it.

I can only assume that if a girl tries to claim that Mr X is the father, he can or should quickly move for a DNA test to prove his position.

A court in her favour I assume, can also order for one to be done if he refuses to admit that he is the father.

Biggins

Melion wrote: »

So how much should i have to pay?
I know how much it takes to feed her etc for the week/month. Nothing close to €65

Have you taken into account that an average baby/toddler will go through 1/2 tins of (for example) "Cow & Gate Complete Care" food a week? At €12/€15 a tin it adds up.
On top of that there is an average €15 a week for nappies. There there is supplement baby meal food in a jar. Clothing external and vests (internals which get soiled!), heat, even things down to mild washing lotions (that are PH neutral) for a child, shoes, washing powder! There is a lot more...

Its not one/two big items that creates the bill, its LOADS of minor stuff that just adds up.

(dad of 4 here - for the record)

mikom

Biggins wrote: »

There there is supplement baby in a jar foods.

Cruel on the baby......

Biggins

mikom wrote: »

Cruel on the baby......

:pac:

Doh!
Corrected!

axel rose

Melion wrote: »

So how much should i have to pay?
I know how much it takes to feed her etc for the week/month. Nothing close to €65

LOL

You should pay double- Seeing as you have no idea how much money it takes to rear a child, it is clear that you are a pretty crappy daddy. If you had a problem with paying maintenance then you should have said 'Not tonight Josephine'. (You won't be too quick to breed again will ya?)

BTW who do you think should provide for your child? The social welfare fairies?

efb

Condoms don't seem so expensive now

K-9

Melion wrote: »

Its a joke that a parent on the dole is expected to fork out €65 to their ex for the care of 1 child.

My daughter would probably need €25 to keep her fed and clothed for a week, she's 11 months old next week.

It is based on means, so it is unlikely it would be €65.

The person on the dole maybe entitled, in certain circumstances, to the Child Dependent Allowance of about €28:
Increase for a Qualified Child » Operational Guidelines » Department of Social Protection

Clothes and food are obviously not the only costs involved with children.

lost in my own head

No offence to anyone here, but how come when it comes to paying everyone here seems to be referring to fathers, the mothers alto rarely do abandon their children two and would do anything to avoid paying. I know a girl (though I wouldn't call her that) that wouldn't even mind her own child so the father can have one night out, and the minute she hears the word maintenance she starts going on about how much she loves them both and how much she wants to come home that last for about three days. and the poor guy is so in love with her that he falls for it every time. (by the way I'm a female in case anyone is thinking otherwise)

Cavehill Red

lost in my own head wrote: »

No offence to anyone here, but how come when it comes to paying everyone here seems to be referring to fathers, the mothers alto rarely do abandon their children two and would do anything to avoid paying.

Exactly.
I'm familiar with a case of a father who paid half his disposible income in maintenance, which of course was used primarily to maintain his child's mother in her nights out chasing fellas.
Now he has sole custody, needless to say she pays feck all. And has now moved abroad, meaning she'll never pay a penny.
Fed up with the gender stereotyping going on in this thread. But even more fed up with the ongoing denial of fathers' rights, and children's rights to fathers, in Ireland.

danbohan

Melion wrote: »

Its a joke that a parent on the dole is expected to fork out €65 to their ex for the care of 1 child.

My daughter would probably need €25 to keep her fed and clothed for a week, she's 11 months old next week.

ever thing getting a job might mean their be more money for you and your baby , or would that just be toooooo much !

K-9

lost in my own head wrote: »

No offence to anyone here, but how come when it comes to paying everyone here seems to be referring to fathers, the mothers alto rarely do abandon their children two and would do anything to avoid paying. I know a girl (though I wouldn't call her that) that wouldn't even mind her own child so the father can have one night out, and the minute she hears the word maintenance she starts going on about how much she loves them both and how much she wants to come home that last for about three days. and the poor guy is so in love with her that he falls for it every time. (by the way I'm a female in case anyone is thinking otherwise)

It's AH!

About 15/16% of Single Parent families are headed by a male, probably more than many people think. That would be made up of widows as well though.

Non payment of Maintenance isn't a predominantly male thing, definitely. Indeed, the rate of non payment could well be higher among women, due to old fashioned societal attitudes.

Nevyn

Currently the State can not take a parent to court to get a maintance order, the parent who has custody has to chase the other parents in the courts to get a maintance order and to then follow up if the default. IF the state can do so and can be the middle man it may cut out a load of bull**** about parents not making payments.

Cavehill Red

Further to that, the family courts will not enforce any penalty against a mother who denies a court order for access to the father, on the grounds that fining her would 'take food out of the child's mouth' and jailing her would deprive the child of their mother.
A full review of family law is long overdue, since the current legislation dates from the Eighties and reflects the mindset of the Fifties.

Tilt Gone

Melion wrote: »

Its a joke that a parent on the dole is expected to fork out €65 to their ex for the care of 1 child.

My daughter would probably need €25 to keep her fed and clothed for a week, she's 11 months old next week.

You my friend are either very young or an idiot and i mean that in the nicest possible way.

K-9

Thaedydal wrote: »

Currently the State can not take a parent to court to get a maintance order, the parent who has custody has to chase the other parents in the courts to get a maintance order and to then follow up if the default. IF the state can do so and can be the middle man it may cut out a load of bull**** about parents not making payments.

Yep, not a fan of State "nannyism", but there are times the State has to step in. If you had automatic guardianship upon the fathers name being put on the birth cert, more fathers may insist on putting the name on. At least the State has a name to go on then. There is a state body to recover maintenance, it appears largely ineffectual though.

I suspect the two main reasons the name isn't put on the cert is, fathers who don't care and mothers who fear losing "entitlements" if the name goes on. The latter myth still goes on, despite it being an urban myth at this stage. The first, Automatic Guardianship could help. If they aren't bothered, remove the rights. Bet they'll care then!

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Further to that, the family courts will not enforce any penalty against a mother who denies a court order for access to the father, on the grounds that fining her would 'take food out of the child's mouth' and jailing her would deprive the child of their mother.
A full review of family law is long overdue, since the current legislation dates from the Eighties and reflects the mindset of the Fifties.

It can happen, but very rarely. One of the family law reports that were published had such a case. The Judge ruled imprisonment, but left it up to the father. Personally, I see imprisonment as the very last option, when all other options are exhausted. That goes for non payment of maintenance and non fulfilment of access.

redout

The worse thing about the scumbags who dont pay maintenance is that they claim back tax for being a parent even though they are paying no maintenance :rolleyes:

Fcuking scum.

goose2005

Woman doesn't want the responsibilities of parenthood - hands child over for adoption, no more obligations. Or has abortion, and no more obligations. Or murders the child and avoids jail (so long as baby is under 12 months, prison is very unlikely).

Man doesn't want the responsibilities of parenthood - tough ****, that'll be €300,000. BE A MAN.

Butch Cassidy

Britain gives people free contraception, condoms, pills, implants etc. as well as free abortions. Bout time we got some of that over here.

In countries were there is a higher level of income inequality there's more lone parents and teen pregnancies.

Source: The Spirit Level.

The_Minister

Melion wrote: »

Its a joke that a parent on the dole is expected to fork out €65 to their ex for the care of 1 child.

My daughter would probably need €25 to keep her fed and clothed for a week, she's 11 months old next week.

You budget like that, but pretty soon they've outgrown their shoebox.

The_Minister

goose2005 wrote: »

Or murders the child and avoids jail (so long as baby is under 12 months, prison is very unlikely, but obviously only if they are diagnosed as suffering from post-partum depression, not if they got frustrated with a particularly smelly nappy. I would have looked silly if I hadn't added that little addendum.).

FYP

efb

goose2005 wrote: »

Woman doesn't want the responsibilities of parenthood - hands child over for adoption, no more obligations. Or has abortion, and no more obligations. Or murders the child and avoids jail (so long as baby is under 12 months, prison is very unlikely).

Man doesn't want the responsibilities of parenthood - tough ****, that'll be €300,000. BE A MAN.

man doesn't want that responsibility- Durex pls

_Kaiser_

efb wrote: »

man doesn't want that responsibility- Durex pls

He does have a point to be fair, and it goes back to the equality of parents rights issue.

Wibbs is right above with regards to balancing out a man's rights and responsibilities, and it's right that a man should live up to his responsibilities (financially and otherwise), BUT I think the whole "deciding what to do" in a case where a girl/woman gets pregnant because BOTH parties were stupid (nothing wrong with women carrying condoms too ya know!) needs to be equal too.

Example: if both had said they didn't want kids, but she gets pregnant (because they were BOTH stupid) and decides to keep it (against his wishes) then that's her choice and should be her responsibility.
After all, if she decides she doesn't want it (but he does) and gets on a boat, the guy won't have much of a say in that either will he?

Can't have it both ways.. equal rights means fairness to BOTH sides.

Oh for transparency, no children myself..

Nevyn

So every guy should wear a condom (no issues there) but should also check with the woman before having sex if she'd have an abortion if she gets preggers?

_Kaiser_

Thaedydal wrote: »

So every guy should wear a condom (no issues there) but should also check with the woman before having sex if she'd have an abortion if she gets preggers?

Well actually that's not a bad idea - maybe rather than just jumping into bed together it might be an idea to maybe get to know each other a bit first!

Anyway, I think you're trying to derail my post which was pointing out the current inequity whereby the man has no real rights or say, but is expected to still accept responsibility in the example I used, and THAT'S what I'd have an issue with.

Wibbs

Thaedydal wrote: »

So every guy should wear a condom (no issues there) but should also check with the woman before having sex if she'd have an abortion if she gets preggers?

Might be a plan actually. Then again it might be easy to say "yes I'll have an abortion" in theory, not so much in practice.

I do agree with Kaiser2000 though men have far less choice when a pregnancy does occur. If he doesnt want it. Tough. If he does. Tough. Until the child arrives and then its responsibility time. Still has less choice though even there. The cards are stacked in the mothers favour.

The sooner the male pill is out the better IMHO.

biko

A vasectomy is 650 euro
www.vasectomy-ireland.com
Seems cheap.

MoonDancer

Melion wrote: »

Its a joke that a parent on the dole is expected to fork out €65 to their ex for the care of 1 child.

My daughter would probably need €25 to keep her fed and clothed for a week, she's 11 months old next week.

€25 wouldn't even cover her nappies for the week!

Yawns

Melion wrote: »

Its a joke that a parent on the dole is expected to fork out €65 to their ex for the care of 1 child.

My daughter would probably need €25 to keep her fed and clothed for a week, she's 11 months old next week.

Ha ha where do I start?

€25 would prob cover the week if and only if you already have the clothes etc in for her. What about when she gets older and needs a lot of new clothes? How much will be left over from that €25 to buy clothes AFTER the mother buys the nappies and food?

Nappies, baby wipes, milk formula / milk, jars of food, baby cereals, juices, etc. Oh and magicaly the mother of course would have lots left over from your €25 to buy the baby bibs, vests, shoes, pants, tops etc. Bravo on your parenting skills is all I can say.

Now don't gimmie an arguement saying you'll buy the clothes and stuff she needs or the mother will buy it from other money. You said €25 a week would do a baby. Simple fact is it won't. Get over it. €65 a week is fine and even at that sometimes just won't cut it.

Wibbs

Terry nappies for the win. Save a fortune apparently and far better for the environment. More work mind.

K-9

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

He does have a point to be fair, and it goes back to the equality of parents rights issue.

Wibbs is right above with regards to balancing out a man's rights and responsibilities, and it's right that a man should live up to his responsibilities (financially and otherwise), BUT I think the whole "deciding what to do" in a case where a girl/woman gets pregnant because BOTH parties were stupid (nothing wrong with women carrying condoms too ya know!) needs to be equal too.

Example: if both had said they didn't want kids, but she gets pregnant (because they were BOTH stupid) and decides to keep it (against his wishes) then that's her choice and should be her responsibility.
After all, if she decides she doesn't want it (but he does) and gets on a boat, the guy won't have much of a say in that either will he?

Can't have it both ways.. equal rights means fairness to BOTH sides.

Oh for transparency, no children myself..

The only 100% safe method there is, is abstinence!

I see your point, but sometimes stuff happens. Some women who would have been pro abortion before a pregnancy change their opinion when pregnant.

Run_to_da_hills

About time, this has been the way in America for decades. I know someone that got two women poled in the space of a year and hasn't contributed a cent towards maintenance in 8 years.

Noreen1

Wibbs wrote: »

Terry nappies for the win. Save a fortune apparently and far better for the environment. More work mind.

Terry nappies don't save as much as you might think - nor are they necessarily as good for the environment as you might believe.

Consider the financial cost of washing powder, fabric conditioner, nappy liners, but more importantly, the electricity cost for running a washing machine and tumble dryer. The real cost is in running a tumble dryer, though..........

Then compare the environmental cost of energy usage, since our energy is largely obtained from fossil fuels..... and the possible damage to the environment caused by chlorine based products (You really wouldn't want to hang brown "patchwork" nappies on the line - quite aside from the health risk to the child from fungal infection caused by improperly washed nappies........

All more important than the amount of work involved

Noreen